Others Pervert Action: Timelapse [v0.67] [BBBen]

[TripleV]

Well, fair enough, if you aren't interested in the premise it might not be the game for you.

Will you allow a question though, as this is something I am genuinely curious about. So in both PA:C and PA:F, you did have multiple options for endings, so why the shift in design? I'm assuming there was a narrative design reason for it and I'm just interested, and in no way in a snarky way, why you decided to shift to this direction?

EDIT: Also, to push back, I don't think it's fair to state that I'm not in the premise of the game, as I mentioned I find it an interesting premise as presented. Where my interest diverges is that I don't like harem endings, but when I first played the game, there was nothing to indicate that was the only option available in it.

 

[BBBen]

Will you allow a question though, as this is something I am genuinely curious about. So in both PA:C and PA:F, you did have multiple options for endings, so why the shift in design? I'm assuming there was a narrative design reason for it and I'm just interested, and in no way in a snarky way, why you decided to shift to this direction?

EDIT: Also, to push back, I don't think it's fair to state that I'm not in the premise of the game, as I mentioned I find it an interesting premise as presented. Where my interest diverges is that I don't like harem endings, but when I first played the game, there was nothing to indicate that was the only option available in it.

Well, I kind of find the premise to be exploring how a harem story can make sense, so that's what I meant by that. Getting into how all the characters relate to each other and how the relationships would function within the group in as believable a way as possible.

I suppose I always saw the games as having multiple timelines, so this isn't really a huge divergence for me. It's just that this time I wanted it to be clear that the main story elements were going to be resolved in the final ending, so I might as well have the different ending options inform each other.

 

[TripleV]

Okay, thanks for the answer, even if I don't quite understand the timeline thing as those individual endings in those games excluded each other out. Also, I still kind of contest the term premise there as that might have been your approach as a writer, but that's not the premise that the player is introduced to the game with. To give a concrete example, before the individual endings, when playing the game, what reason would the player have to expect that there was only one possible ending to the game itself? Semantic issue, I realize, but it is more from my argument that I did enjoy the premise of the game as presented a lot.

 

[BBBen]

Okay, thanks for the answer, even if I don't quite understand the timeline thing as those individual endings in those games excluded each other out. Also, I still kind of contest the term premise there as that might have been your approach as a writer, but that's not the premise that the player is introduced to the game with. To give a concrete example, before the individual endings, when playing the game, what reason would the player have to expect that there was only one possible ending to the game itself? Semantic issue, I realize, but it is more from my argument that I did enjoy the premise of the game as presented a lot.

Well, just because by it's very nature it's a 'harem game' in which juggling relationships is the main gameplay element. If the endings are really bothering you that's a shame, but if you've liked what you've played so far I'd suggest maybe not pre-judging on the rest of the content. (But again, if it really doesn't sound like it'll appeal to you, that's fine too.)

 

[TripleV]

Well, just because by it's very nature it's a 'harem game' in which juggling relationships is the main gameplay element. If the endings are really bothering you that's a shame, but if you've liked what you've played so far I'd suggest maybe not pre-judging on the rest of the content. (But again, if it really doesn't sound like it'll appeal to you, that's fine too.)

But I don't quite understand how I'm pre-judging it as if I don't like harem endings and you've literally stated that this game only has a harem ending, aren't I then accepting the game as you've described it as? As my previous enjoyment was prior to this knowledge, which does change things.

Also on the harem game aspect, to continue a discussion I hope you at least find engaging on some level, when playing the game I understood it was a harem game in the sense that there were multiple women you could purse simultaneously, but I did not realize the game narrative required you to purse all of them in order to reach the only available ending. So when playing back then, I thought I could just focus on just one woman in question with also reaching a meaningful ending with her alone. Now, the fact that this is a game that, without literally any signal early, only has one ending that forces that harem creates a few reasons. One is a character dynamic one that I won't focus on here, but the other is the removal of choice which is usually a big element in harem games like this.

To give a concrete example, out of the three women introduced at the start of the game, I found one of them utterly unappealing. Like couldn't care less about her. Now, thinking that I had a choice when playing then, that didn't have any negative impact on my gaming experience as I just ignored that character. However, now if I were to play it, I would know that I would have to endure scenes with a character that I did not find interesting at all in order to have an ending where that character was also a core romantic choice. Thus by introducing that single ending, you also remove ability to avoid content the player would not prefer.

 

[cccxxx]

how about adopting ren'py as a program ?
it's made for these kind of games !

 

[BBBen]

how about adopting ren'py as a program ?
it's made for these kind of games !

No more so than VN Maker; there just happens to be a bug in the audio coding. But anyway, once a game is programmed in one engine it's no easy thing to just put it in another engine - you have to start from scratch. Ren'py has its own flaws as well, which is why I looked elsewhere in the first place. If not for a couple of these bugs I'd be quite happy with the engine, but when I started out I didn't know that the developers would largely stop dealing with these issues.

But I don't quite understand how I'm pre-judging it as if I don't like harem endings and you've literally stated that this game only has a harem ending, aren't I then accepting the game as you've described it as? As my previous enjoyment was prior to this knowledge, which does change things.

Also on the harem game aspect, to continue a discussion I hope you at least find engaging on some level, when playing the game I understood it was a harem game in the sense that there were multiple women you could purse simultaneously, but I did not realize the game narrative required you to purse all of them in order to reach the only available ending. So when playing back then, I thought I could just focus on just one woman in question with also reaching a meaningful ending with her alone. Now, the fact that this is a game that, without literally any signal early, only has one ending that forces that harem creates a few reasons. One is a character dynamic one that I won't focus on here, but the other is the removal of choice which is usually a big element in harem games like this.

To give a concrete example, out of the three women introduced at the start of the game, I found one of them utterly unappealing. Like couldn't care less about her. Now, thinking that I had a choice when playing then, that didn't have any negative impact on my gaming experience as I just ignored that character. However, now if I were to play it, I would know that I would have to endure scenes with a character that I did not find interesting at all in order to have an ending where that character was also a core romantic choice. Thus by introducing that single ending, you also remove ability to avoid content the player would not prefer.

Well, I think the game's just not going to appeal to you as a matter of taste, but that's not something I can do a whole lot about. That's fine, you can never please everybody.

 

[blablablagivemethemoney]

But I don't quite understand how I'm pre-judging it as if I don't like harem endings and you've literally stated that this game only has a harem ending, aren't I then accepting the game as you've described it as? As my previous enjoyment was prior to this knowledge, which does change things.

Also on the harem game aspect, to continue a discussion I hope you at least find engaging on some level, when playing the game I understood it was a harem game in the sense that there were multiple women you could purse simultaneously, but I did not realize the game narrative required you to purse all of them in order to reach the only available ending. So when playing back then, I thought I could just focus on just one woman in question with also reaching a meaningful ending with her alone. Now, the fact that this is a game that, without literally any signal early, only has one ending that forces that harem creates a few reasons. One is a character dynamic one that I won't focus on here, but the other is the removal of choice which is usually a big element in harem games like this.

To give a concrete example, out of the three women introduced at the start of the game, I found one of them utterly unappealing. Like couldn't care less about her. Now, thinking that I had a choice when playing then, that didn't have any negative impact on my gaming experience as I just ignored that character. However, now if I were to play it, I would know that I would have to endure scenes with a character that I did not find interesting at all in order to have an ending where that character was also a core romantic choice. Thus by introducing that single ending, you also remove ability to avoid content the player would not prefer.

The idea is that there are usually an ending for the whole harem, an ending for each girl, and sometimes an ending for a combo of girls. What I think BBBen means is that the Harem ending is canonical. This has been the case for pretty much all of his Pervert Action games. In the past, you could only attempt a Harem route after supposedly completing all the endings yourself (or just looking up the code), and I have no idea if you have to complete all the other endings in this game to do this.

The point is - if you want, you could simply go for the girl you like, get her ending, and then stop playing the game once you're satisfied. But canonically, the harem ending is the ending that is supposed to happen. I guess.

 

[TripleV]

The idea is that there are usually an ending for the whole harem, an ending for each girl, and sometimes an ending for a combo of girls. What I think BBBen means is that the Harem ending is canonical. This has been the case for pretty much all of his Pervert Action games. In the past, you could only attempt a Harem route after supposedly completing all the endings yourself (or just looking up the code), and I have no idea if you have to complete all the other endings in this game to do this.

The point is - if you want, you could simply go for the girl you like, get her ending, and then stop playing the game once you're satisfied. But canonically, the harem ending is the ending that is supposed to happen. I guess.

Except it's not really what he wrote in the replies. Also, he did state in the update that the individual endings are not the real ending, which is a separate thing from a canonical ending, which I don't even know how that would work as that would require there to be a sequel which required that canonical ending.

 

[Teal]

Did you fix the bug Ben? It's completely unplayable til that bug is fixed, which is a real shame as the game looks great.

 

[iamvqb]

Me no English good. Bug fix yes? No bug fix me no play

 

[Ashley young]

do the number of days passed signify anything? I always try to do a speedrun and end up ignoring certain girls because some user here said to optimse time in this game.

Edit: The dev should also look into RenPy. The current engine seems to be based off a buggy version of RPGM. Renpy is easier to code, and is perfect for VNs as well

 

[oguzhanewrre]

ı cant play html version how to turn off all script?

 

[q125724]

My save from Feb of this year is super buggy, I can't save, or bring up the menu, it freezes it. Would someone with a current save (complete is great, but anything working at this version) would be great.

 

[hi123454321]

Playing the latest version without audio causes the same issues where after loading into my old saves, trying to click menu, stats, save, or load causes infinite loading.

 

[BBBen]

Did you fix the bug Ben? It's completely unplayable til that bug is fixed, which is a real shame as the game looks great.

Me no English good. Bug fix yes? No bug fix me no play

Yes, as I stated in my post about the release, we found a fix for the image background bug.

My save from Feb of this year is super buggy, I can't save, or bring up the menu, it freezes it. Would someone with a current save (complete is great, but anything working at this version) would be great.

Playing the latest version without audio causes the same issues where after loading into my old saves, trying to click menu, stats, save, or load causes infinite loading.

Old saves are just often not going to work. You see, whenever I have to make technical changes there's a strong likelihood that that will break the scene you've tried to load into.

It's not really necessary, though - by design the ending comes up quickly and it's not designed for just one run through the game. I've even included features, available at start-up, that allow you to skip the intro, potentially jump all the way to the end of the character stories, and to use replay mode, which skips scenes you've already seen. Replay mode can also be turned on or off any time from the stats menu.

 

[ltpika]

Little confused on what you said earlier. Having to play in one sitting is a huge restriction no other engine has as far as I know. I can't imagine what rumored short comings renpy had, but I really hope no one uses this engine on any game in the future. Saves are basic functionality, putting more content into the game feels like working on a car but never putting in the engine. AC is nice, but not if the car is forever stationary.

And doesn't TimeStamps use this engine too? That has had working saves for as long as I've played it. But if you can't get your saves working, put a replay gallery in at least. The quick start features just don't cut it, it's still way too long to get where you want. Having unlockable replays at least feels like you get "credit" for what you have done before and could cut the feeling of futility.

"It's not a big deal, you are supposed to play it multiple times" kinda discounts the value we put on our playthroughs. When I reload an old save in past Pervert Action games it feels good to look back on the work I put into the stats in that run (my Kimiko run is dear to me, makes me feel closer to her because I focused my stats and items on her.) It's a good rush of nostalgia, I don't think fast forwarding until you get to something new can touch that. I'm not immersed at that point. Makes the story a blur in the mind and I find myself fast forwarding parts of the new stuff too, due to habituation.

I'm not saying making a game you just run through quickly isn't valid, it is. But then the game play systems are just annoyances. You should really ditch the hand/eye and other stat stuff then to. Just feels like a carryover for no reason then. You can make it a straight linear vn, that might be better. Maybe have the stats active in a "nostalgia mode" for first timers or people who'd like that.

 

[Crypt]

So was playing the game and the event where you find the mute girl sleeping in the hallway and the other one in her nightgown (shizu and nobuku) and saved it there and now whenever i load into the game and choose a dialogue option nothing happens dialogue disappears

 

[BBBen]

Little confused on what you said earlier. Having to play in one sitting is a huge restriction no other engine has as far as I know. I can't imagine what rumored short comings renpy had, but I really hope no one uses this engine on any game in the future. Saves are basic functionality, putting more content into the game feels like working on a car but never putting in the engine. AC is nice, but not if the car is forever stationary.

And doesn't TimeStamps use this engine too? That has had working saves for as long as I've played it. But if you can't get your saves working, put a replay gallery in at least. The quick start features just don't cut it, it's still way too long to get where you want. Having unlockable replays at least feels like you get "credit" for what you have done before and could cut the feeling of futility.

"It's not a big deal, you are supposed to play it multiple times" kinda discounts the value we put on our playthroughs. When I reload an old save in past Pervert Action games it feels good to look back on the work I put into the stats in that run (my Kimiko run is dear to me, makes me feel closer to her because I focused my stats and items on her.) It's a good rush of nostalgia, I don't think fast forwarding until you get to something new can touch that. I'm not immersed at that point. Makes the story a blur in the mind and I find myself fast forwarding parts of the new stuff too, due to habituation.

I'm not saying making a game you just run through quickly isn't valid, it is. But then the game play systems are just annoyances. You should really ditch the hand/eye and other stat stuff then to. Just feels like a carryover for no reason then. You can make it a straight linear vn, that might be better. Maybe have the stats active in a "nostalgia mode" for first timers or people who'd like that.

No, the save function does work, but unfortunately often old saves from previous versions will break if I have to make some significant technical change to the scene you're in. I had been hoping to have the apartment more or less locked down so that would mean most saves would survive from version to version, but the recent emergence of the residual image bug meant I had to go back in and alter the apartment again. The old saves might still work, but I can't guarantee it - my saves from the last few versions do work seemingly perfectly well, to give you an idea. If I hear about some mystery bug that I can't replicate, however, and the player is using an old save then that might be the reason.

So therefore, because I know this has been an issue for players and because I want to facilitate easy replay in the event of bad saves but also new content that will start to unlock after the endings, I've included some options that help speed things along. It's not ideal that people would have to deal with broken saves, I know, but it isn't a really uncommon thing with games that need major technical overhauls from time to time.

As for the other points, without going into all the complexity of design choices which can be difficult to explain in the abstract, please understand that this is a work in progress and while I'm trying to make it a coherent experience for people playing along with the early access releases, this isn't a linear VN and was never intended to be, so the gameplay experience is naturally going to make more and more sense as I've had more time to complete it. And without going into spoilers or details that would otherwise give things away, the gameplay structure is actually part of the story and in my opinion essential to it.

So was playing the game and the event where you find the mute girl sleeping in the hallway and the other one in her nightgown (shizu and nobuku) and saved it there and now whenever i load into the game and choose a dialogue option nothing happens dialogue disappears

Huh, that's a bit odd. You can't click on anything on the screen or anything? It sounds sort of like it could be the residual image bug, in which case if you could move around the apartment it would clear up, but if it's not that and it's just hanging then this is another strange save/load bug that I'll need to track down. I have once heard of something kind of like this in another scene; something just breaking if you save before a choice, but that really shouldn't be an issue and hasn't been so in the past. I know those scenes are set up relatively simply and use the engine's built-in choice function, so there shouldn't really be a lot of room for error with them. I'll take a look at it, though.

 

[ltpika]

As for the other points, without going into all the complexity of design choices which can be difficult to explain in the abstract, please understand that this is a work in progress and while I'm trying to make it a coherent experience for people playing along with the early access releases, this isn't a linear VN and was never intended to be, so the gameplay experience is naturally going to make more and more sense as I've had more time to complete it. And without going into spoilers or details that would otherwise give things away, the gameplay structure is actually part of the story and in my opinion essential to it.

Ah okay, I was confused and thought maybe the goal of the game was different, that "do it all in one go" was intentional. I hope you can get a lockdown on the save issue then, seems to be the worst possible bug to have in a game designed like this. Because they individual playthrough can't be valued and enjoyed the way it was meant to. I really do love what's here but all the (unintentionally) mandatory fast forwarding each release makes me feel too detached. It's like Groundhog's Day every time.