Petition to ban MTL

[wyldstrykr]

You don't need college tuition to tell that a translated sentence from google translate is out of order or doesn't make sense when you translate it to your language. What you said about understanding the language completely isn't always the case since there are edited MTL games on this site that are a joy to play and you only sometimes notice inconsistencies, most sentences in games are short phrases, the translator surely can think about it for a second and try to make sense of the broader story and context. Actually, what I said happens very frequently, japanese doujins for example: The translation teams sometimes have people who actually understand the language but it's not all of them and when they don't have someone they translate with the help of tools, try to make sense of what's being said and the general story, then they edit it to make as much sense as possible. Btw, this also happens with non-erotic anime and manga, even with light novels on a lesser scale.

i didnt read mtl nowadays so idk if its true. does MTL can distinguish a name of a person?? most japanese name are name after objects,verbs,adjectives and so. maybe deepAItranslation does but maybe not now and in the future. if those machine cant, how those people who dont have a knowlege to the source language and only knows translated language fare? yes. it may be easy to make sentence makes sense but point still has a point.

Truth, what if people want to play a more underground game that won't get an official translation by some big company? Are they supposed to cry and wait for the game until it's released or more accurately, IF it's ever released?

You left out the part where I said that MTL is more BEARABLE that way, I meant that even if it's not pristine perfection you can still play through it; Would I want a 50+ hour story heavy visual novel machine translated? No. But for small or medium games MTL works just fine provided that the machine translator has the decency to edit it properly and the site here tags it for the people that don't want to see it. At the end of the day an edited machine translated game is better than no game at all.

is there an option like idk... do something else, like play games, watch youtube, watch movies, or do other things that are translated like this isnt end of the world for them if the game they want to play isnt translated.
if MTL is BEARABLE, then those threads like should MTL be banned, or eww MTL fact you, etc. doesnt eXist. yes edited machine translated game is better than no game but for some people, doing other things is better to them than reading MTL especially if the editor/translation doesnt know japanese at all

i sucks

 

[Deleted member 2466386]

I think it's fine doing MTL as long as the translation doesn't ruin the code of the game.
Some translators just throw the whole game into a translation machine and upload it without checking and chances are that the machine also translated some parts of the code thus, making the game crashed or misbehave.

On the other hand, machine is useful for some parts of translating since it can give you guides. After the machine translation some translators would re-translate it by themselves once again to make it more readable, sometimes called "edited-MTL".

So IMO machine is useful as a tool to assist your translation process, but you have to check it twice to ensure that the machine didn't harm the code of the game.

 

[Hentai_Kishi]

Firstly this is mostly true only for Asian languages, because of their construction ; yet it happen less nowadays. For any other languages, the main problem caused by MTL is the literal aspect of this translation, that focus more on the words than on the meaning. What imply that, with exception but not this frequents nowadays, once translated back to your own language, the sentence will be altered but still meaningful and near enough to what you tried to express. This even if effectively it will be something stupid in English because the translation was made through the use of a homograph, and so have a totally different meaning.
Secondly it don't change the main point of my comment. Due to his absence of knowledge regarding the English language, the author have no way to correct the translation.

I'm not getting you here, if you know english and you translate a japanese game to english, sure some of the meaning and even the play with words is lost on you but as long as it makes general sense and has readability it's good enough for a MTL, it's not supposed to be good, it's MTL. I will respectfully disagree with your main point, the translator can correct his own mistakes to some extent as long as he is dedicated to doing so, it would surely demand time and effort but it could be done, to note that when I talk about mistakes I'm just talking about the readability and general meaning of the translation.

When learning new languages you often will search for the general meaning of words and sentences, as long it isn't some complex sentence or something highly abstract you can translate the original meaning just fine most of the time. Why can't translators who already have the base script do the same? Yes, it's somewhat of a guessing game but such is the nature of the MTL.

I will say it again: What I was proposing wasn't to give a "proper" translation, the purpose was to give a "somewhat understandable" translation that isn't MTL poetry. There are examples on this site where the edited MTL actually makes sense 70% of the time.

Be consistent please. You can't at first talk about people who "doesn't know the language", then argument by using the case of people who are relying on MTL because their knowledge is too limited. They are two different kind of people.

What are you even saying? Where have I not been consistent? Maybe I didn't express myself correctly or you didn't understand. In my first post I said that translators who don't know the language should at least have the decency of editing the translated script so the player can at least read and understand what is being said, even if it's just a little. A contradiction never happened there. Yes I'm talking about people who don't know the language, they aren't stupid, they can see that the sentence doesn't make any sense.

If at a certain point of a game's translation someone said: "Goblins all Kill!", it could be interpreted also as "Kill all Goblins!", depending on the context and whats happening in the game the translator should be able to derive the meaning of that specific sentence even with a different structure and incorporate the more readable sentence into the game. There is the possibility that it meant another thing entirely but again, it's MTL at the end of the day.

As if big companies where a sign of quality in regard of translation. There's even a good example of the opposite in this thread.

Yeah, good thing I never said that the translation of a big company would be better in my post, I know very well they aren't always good. It's just that companies that do official translations have someone who knows the language(like you wanted right?) and if they make a shitty translation they are held accountable. You actually kinda missed my point here. It doesn't matter if it's a company or a fan-translation from someone who really studied the language, the point is that there isn't always someone there to properly translate it for you and your only options are learn the language, wait and cry for something that may never be translated or try your hand at a machine translation.

People don't really want to learn another whole language just to be able to translate a 5+ hour game, it's a huge time investment, not everyone wants to learn a language just to become a game translator. If you like something niche and plan to wait you and others may never get to play the game, just look at the NEC PC-98 games, most of them untranslated to this day. The reasonable alternative between them would be to machine translate.

No offense, but how young are you exactly ?
What you describe is what everyone that turned 15 before mid/late 00's had to live with. And not just for games. In the mid 80's manga started to rise in France, but it's only in the late 90's, early 00's, that they started to be massively translated. Before that all the shops, many being dedicated to mangas, were selling 99% of untranslated import.
If you weren't able to read Japanese, then yes, you were waiting for the translation, without knowing if there will be one. We lived perfectly with this fact, and haven't died because there's this fucking manga that every one describe as amazingly marvelous but that we never read because there's no translation for it.

One can perfectly live without having played a game, even more an adult games, read a book/manga, seen a movie, because there's no translation in a language he understand. What is the case of the, probably near to 4 billions, peoples who don't have at least a basic understanding of English.

I'm going to ignore the comment of age because I know exactly where it leads to. You could have written everything else without that line.

Are you older than me? If you are then nice, nothing wrong with that, but I won't jerk off the 80's or 90's, having less access to things is worse not better.

You won't die if you don't play a game it's true, you are completely and absolutely right. Remember though, we don't live in that age anymore, today we have tools available to the common man and woman that they can use to bring a product to their country, that's huge. Even if it's not perfect it's a start, I would rather have a piece of foreign media that is somewhat understandable than having nothing and having heard nothing of it's existence.

The internet is a better place when you have more access to things, not less.

 

[Hentai_Kishi]

i didnt read mtl nowadays so idk if its true. does MTL can distinguish a name of a person?? most japanese name are name after objects,verbs,adjectives and so. maybe deepAItranslation does but maybe not now and in the future. if those machine cant, how those people who dont have a knowlege to the source language and only knows translated language fare? yes. it may be easy to make sentence makes sense but point still has a point.

In regards to the recognition of names, it isn't something extremely difficult that requires an advanced AI. You just need to have the original Kanji and you can search the meaning of the name. In fact there are websites that allow you to even draw the Kanji so you can search for a meaning or even symbols similar to it, "jisho" is one of such websites. The translator will have to go out of his way to search and edit these things but honesly? MTL shouldn't mean effortless.

is there an option like idk... do something else, like play games, watch youtube, watch movies, or do other things that are translated like this isnt end of the world for them if the game they want to play isnt translated.
if MTL is BEARABLE, then those threads like should MTL be banned, or eww MTL fact you, etc. doesnt eXist. yes edited machine translated game is better than no game but for some people, doing other things is better to them than reading MTL especially if the editor/translation doesnt know japanese at all

Yes, people can and should go about their day and play other things that are already translated but this isn't the point. The point is that those who don't mind a faulty translation should be able to play the game they want that may never be translated otherwise. It's not the best option out there but the alternative is having no game at all.

 

[Deleted member 1462538]

I think it's fine doing MTL as long as the translation doesn't ruin the code of the game.
Some translators just throw the whole game into a translation machine and upload it without checking and chances are that the machine also translated some parts of the code thus, making the game crashed or misbehave.

On the other hand, machine is useful for some parts of translating since it can give you guides. After the machine translation some translators would re-translate it by themselves once again to make it more readable, sometimes called "edited-MTL".

So IMO machine is useful as a tool to assist your translation process, but you have to check it twice to ensure that the machine didn't harm the code of the game.

You're right, thank you

Would like to change my petition to ban lazy attempts at MTL. those edited mtls that have great work put into them are more than enough.

Like for example, some moderators/admins to see if a MTL game is up to par with the requirements and if not, then deny the person from posting their translation, or some other way to ensure this site doesn't have terrible MTL.

 

[BABPEEG]

That sounds racist, are you a racist?

 

[Deleted member 1462538]

That sounds racist, are you a racist?

Towards bad mtls? yes, they deserve it and deserve to be oppressed.

 

[Succubus Hunter]

You're right, thank you

Would like to change my petition to ban lazy attempts at MTL. those edited mtls that have great work put into them are more than enough.

Like for example, some moderators/admins to see if a MTL game is up to par with the requirements and if not, then deny the person from posting their translation, or some other way to ensure this site doesn't have terrible MTL.

I think the comment sections do a good job of judging whether or not a game needs a better translation. Not only that but having the game on here allows users to post their interest in a better translation and for translators to see that there is an interest. Also, providing a platform for the game itself here makes it easier for people down the line who may have the translation file from another site but not the game (Such as, it if it was deleted from another site).

 

[anne O'nymous]

I'm not getting you here, if you know english and you translate a japanese game to english, sure some of the meaning and even the play with words is lost on you but as long as it makes general sense and has readability it's good enough for a MTL, it's not supposed to be good, it's MTL.

You know that the majority of MTL translations are made by the author of the game, right ? Therefore, in your example, by the guy that know Japanese, not English. What imply that all your arguments are still totally out of your own context, since you defined it as people "doesn't know the language", then argument by using exclusively people who know the language.

When learning new languages you [...]

... aren't defined as someone who "doesn't know the language".

 

[moskyx]

You know that the majority of MTL translations are made by the author of the game, right ? Therefore, in your example, by the guy that know Japanese, not English. What imply that all your arguments are still totally out of your own context, since you defined it as people "doesn't know the language", then argument by using exclusively people who know the language.

It's obvious he's assuming the opposite situation, a player/fan who wants to play a game in their language and thus do a MTL. He's not talking about devs doing a MTL of their own games.

 

[Hentai_Kishi]

You know that the majority of MTL translations are made by the author of the game, right ? Therefore, in your example, by the guy that know Japanese, not English. What imply that all your arguments are still totally out of your own context, since you defined it as people "doesn't know the language", then argument by using exclusively people who know the language.


... aren't defined as someone who "doesn't know the language".

Yeah, no, the entire time I was talking about the MTL made by fans and third parties not the original developers. Are you absolutely sure that it's the authors of the games themselves that make the MAJORITY of the MTL translations? Are you REALLY sure about that or are you just trying to change the order of things?

Even if you try to manipulate what I said by telling me that I actually meant Japanese developers do the majority of the translations(which I never actually said), it's not that different from the inverse, japanese devs just have to find a way to convey the most basic meaning possible in each phrase. Google translator, merriam webster, urban dictionary can do wonders for a developer that is machine translating his game to english. In any way, there was never a contradiction with what I said.

I want to know what makes you think I'm talking about people who know the language, I'm not, I never actually said that. Yes, people that don't know the language can actually look up meanings and edit phrases so they look better, it's not a herculean task. I try my best to convey what I mean with words but at the end of the day I can only be held accountable for the things I actually wrote and not for the things you interpreted yourself.

I used the "When you learn languages" as an example to the situation, after that I even said: " Why can't translators who already have the base script do the same? Yes, it's somewhat of a guessing game but such is the nature of the MTL.". You are just being dishonest here. Even if what I said was wrong(it's not, it's just an example/comparison) and you removed the entire paragraph from the text my point would still stand.

Honestly, are you really THAT bothered that people try to translate things they enjoy? It's explicitly said in the game threads that the translation is MTL, you can just avoid it if you hate it that much. The only thing that I proposed was to have more proper and understandable MTL instead of banning it completely.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Yeah, no, the entire time I was talking about the MTL made by fans and third parties not the original developers. Are you absolutely sure that it's the authors of the games themselves that make the MAJORITY of the MTL translations? Are you REALLY sure about that or are you just trying to change the order of things?

I'm really sure yes. It obviously only apply to the majority, so not all of them, but it's relatively easy to find it ; just follow the translation. Unlike what the legend say, not everything stay forever on the net, but everything always still left traces. Especially when it come to fan made translation. There's always a request that is still visible here or there, a notice regarding the fact that someone is working on a translation, a tip jar or something similar related to the translator, a link to a long time expired archive, and so on. All things that don't exist when it's a translation made by the author, because the release was made this way and don't needed them.

Honestly, are you really THAT bothered that people try to translate things they enjoy?

I absolutely don't care if people try to translate things they enjoy, and there's nothing in what I said that can make effectively lead to the opposite conclusion.

 

[mgtoons]

The only thing that should be banned is cancel culture that tries to ban things. What I do think should happen is that those games be required to have an MTL tag or warning on them so people know in advance and make that decision for themselves.

 

[rienrien]

You know that the majority of MTL translations are made by the author of the game, right ?

As far as I know, most authors who MTL their own games are actually chinese authors.

 

[Hentai_Kishi]

I'm really sure yes. It obviously only apply to the majority, so not all of them, but it's relatively easy to find it ; just follow the translation. Unlike what the legend say, not everything stay forever on the net, but everything always still left traces. Especially when it come to fan made translation. There's always a request that is still visible here or there, a notice regarding the fact that someone is working on a translation, a tip jar or something similar related to the translator, a link to a long time expired archive, and so on. All things that don't exist when it's a translation made by the author, because the release was made this way and don't needed them.

I won't go around on the internet looking for every japanese game that has a translation just to have an accurate number of the MTL done by the developers but even if what you said is true, my point still stands, a translation can be done. Not effortless and not perfect, but can be done.

I absolutely don't care if people try to translate things they enjoy, and there's nothing in what I said that can make effectively lead to the opposite conclusion.

Therefore, if the translator don't know the language, he should just not even try to translate it by himself, dot.

You literally said this and you are being argumentative just for the sake of it, if you really didn't care you probably wouldn't even answer my comment in the first place. If you don't agree with me that's understandable, but don't try to pretend that somehow what I said can't be done, there are examples on this very site.

I just proposed a harmless small thing and you are making a complete show out of it all, trying to pin on me "contradictions" and such. I don't even know if you are just trolling at this point, it wasn't something hard to understand to begin with.

I won't put any more effort into responding to you, there is no point in that.

 

[Archaon11111]

The only thing that should be banned is cancel culture that tries to ban things. What I do think should happen is that those games be required to have an MTL tag or warning on them so people know in advance and make that decision for themselves.

There's already a MTL mention on the game description where its needed, not their fault OP is too blind to see it and sounds like a Karen. Petition what petition this ain't a democracy.

 

[anne O'nymous]

You literally said this and you are being argumentative just for the sake of it, if you really didn't care you probably wouldn't even answer my comment in the first place.

I asked you, explicitly enough, how someone who know absolutely nothing regarding the language he is translating to can correct his translation. Care to explain how this made me bothered by people who translate what they like ?

 

[Succubus Hunter]

There's already a MTL mention on the game description where its needed, not their fault OP is too blind to see it and sounds like a Karen. Petition what petition this ain't a democracy.

View attachment 1080120

I think what they are thinking would happen is that by getting rid of MTL a bunch of translators would magically drop whatever they were doing and start translating the games they want for free. If this were not an adult game site, this is the choosingbeggar attitude that one would find on Reddit's r/choosingbeggars.

 

[gunderson]

What I'd like to see is some kind of 'broken English' tag. This thread has brought up, quite reasonably so I might add, that sometimes MTL is fine and sometimes it's not. Sometimes authors also just suck at writing period and don't have some other language they're functionally literate in. So, why not tag those games where the quality of sentence-level English might clearly be a problem for some potential players? Sure, it might take an adjustment period to see where the threshold is for such a tag, but I think the benefits outweigh the risks of abuse.

As a reminder, this site is primarily a forum for finding and sharing links to games. Having threads for MTL games doesn't meaningfully clog up bandwidth or take up too much storage or whatever. The time to ban games is when they violate the site's rules in some intractable way and/or the dev tries to abuse the site via their game's thread. Why not just let potential players know that the game they're downloading has not prioritized comprehensible English and let them make their own decision? Hell, to the extent that it's possible to, it might even encourage some authors to improve their writing skills or find outside help to proofread their work so that a 'broken English' tag gets removed from future versions of their game.

 

[Succubus Hunter]

What I'd like to see is some kind of 'broken English' tag. This thread has brought up, quite reasonably so I might add, that sometimes MTL is fine and sometimes it's not. Sometimes authors also just suck at writing period and don't have some other language they're functionally literate in. So, why not tag those games where the quality of sentence-level English might clearly be a problem for some potential players? Sure, it might take an adjustment period to see where the threshold is for such a tag, but I think the benefits outweigh the risks of abuse.

As a reminder, this site is primarily a forum for finding and sharing links to games. Having threads for MTL games doesn't meaningfully clog up bandwidth or take up too much storage or whatever. The time to ban games is when they violate the site's rules in some intractable way and/or the dev tries to abuse the site via their game's thread. Why not just let potential players know that the game they're downloading has not prioritized comprehensible English and let them make their own decision? Hell, to the extent that it's possible to, it might even encourage some authors to improve their writing skills or find outside help to proofread their work so that a 'broken English' tag gets removed from future versions of their game.

This right here is a suggestion I can get behind. To make it better I would also add differing levels of the "Broken English" tag.