Ren'Py Completed Pine Falls [Part 2 v0.5] [Daniels K]

[Gt8588]

The ending sucked.

 

[XerNaut]

Thank you Jacowboy for your AVN recommendations list. I just looked at it, and am blown away with your work to catalog the huge number of games.

This list sounds interesting. Not sure where to find it, got a link?

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

This list sounds interesting. Not sure where to find it, got a link?

It's in Jacowboy's signature. Find a post by that user and you'll see a link at the bottom of the post, like this one.

 

[XerNaut]

It's in Jacowboy's signature. Find a post by that user and you'll see a link at the bottom of the post, like this one.

Nice! I found it! Thanks

 

[Hfap5]

Can someone explain the ending to me? Is there a sequel to this story?

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

Can someone explain the ending to me? Is there a sequel to this story?

Spoiler

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[Hfap5]

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Basically, it ends in nothing? The ending i chose with the mod was where a demon kidnaps you, and I imagine that's the true ending.

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

Basically, it ends in nothing? The ending i chose with the mod was where a demon kidnaps you, and I imagine that's the true ending.

Well, firstly, you're using a mod. I have no idea what it might change; I almost never use mods. In the non-modded version of the game, it doesn't end in nothing. It ends in escaping so you're not stuck forever in Pine Falls and doomed to live among the cult, etc., that's there. How is that ending in "nothing"?

Secondly, did you want to get kidnaped by a demon or something? Otherwise, I can't imagine why you'd make choices leading to that on purpose. Anyway, I don't think that's the "true" ending. The whole idea in this series is that the threat continues against different groups, and those in danger (at least, the current MC and whoever with him) try to escape before it's too late. I don't think you're supposed to get nabbed by demons in any of these games.

 

[CARlSON911]

Well, firstly, you're using a mod. I have no idea what it might change; I almost never use mods. In the non-modded version of the game, it doesn't end in nothing. It ends in escaping so you're not stuck forever in Pine Falls and doomed to live among the cult, etc., that's there. How is that ending in "nothing"?

Secondly, did you want to get kidnaped by a demon or something? Otherwise, I can't imagine why you'd make choices leading to that on purpose. Anyway, I don't think that's the "true" ending. The whole idea in this series is that the threat continues against different groups, and those in danger (at least, the current MC and whoever with him) try to escape before it's too late. I don't think you're supposed to get nabbed by demons in any of these games.

Let's be honest, okay? What choice are you talking about? The protagonist had only one choice: to return to Pine Falls or not. The moment he returned, there was no other choice. The demon that was imprisoned there, believing, like everyone else in Pine Falls, that there was no escape, saw that there was an opportunity to escape. That's it. After that, either the protagonist escapes or the demon takes him. Everything is clear here. And that's not the game's main problem.

The game's main problem is the author of this game. He is talented. We see this from the large number of already completed projects. However, he has a strange habit of rigidly imposing his vision of the story. This is not bad. It is the author's job to tell a coherent story. But not in this case...

Using Pine Falls as an example. The author shows us the people who live in this town. He describes them in detail, which implies a choice, but he doesn't give us one. From the entire list of characters, we are RIGIDLY singled out a few, of which we are allowed to make a choice. Why? The author simply decided to do so. Moreover, the characters you're given to choose from are among the least interesting of the presented ones (in my opinion, of course, but choosing the sheriff's daughter and the lady who asks you to have a baby with her would have been much more fun and interesting. However, this is, of course, a matter of taste.). This would be perceived as normal if the others were designated purely symbolically, making it clear that this is the only available choice. However, we are given detailed descriptions of many, creating the feeling that we can choose from all of them... and then they disappoint.

Finally, you're shown an "afterword" showing the characters left behind. For example, the "waitress" is pregnant, and it's implied that the hero will return (I played it a long time ago, but she says there that my father will definitely return. She says it outright.)... but he doesn't. This creates the feeling that the story isn't fully told. The author simply chose the ending that was closest to him and revealed it, while the second one was merely symbolic. And the route where we remained and somehow existed in Pine Falls... there was a clear sense that this was a setup for a continuation of the story, but considering that the author is already working on, in my opinion, his second or third project after this game... He simply gave up on it. Although I would have gladly returned to Pine Falls. So much interesting could have been imagined there. What a shame...

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

Let's be honest, okay? What choice are you talking about? The protagonist had only one choice: to return to Pine Falls or not. The moment he returned, there was no other choice. The demon that was imprisoned there, believing, like everyone else in Pine Falls, that there was no escape, saw that there was an opportunity to escape. That's it. After that, either the protagonist escapes or the demon takes him. Everything is clear here. And that's not the game's main problem.

No, that's incorrect. He could choose to stay in Pine Falls (not "return", unless you're talking about heading to Lily's instead of leaving; that's not really returning but just choosing not to escape the second time). The other choices are choosing different LIs when the MC leaves (and who gets left behind). Yes, he either leaves or doesn't, but pretending there's no choice when he's leaving isn't really accurate. You may not think of the choice of LI(s) as different endings, but they were to me: seems pretty straightforward in what I meant by "choices", TBH.

However, he has a strange habit of rigidly imposing his vision of the story. This is not bad. It is the author's job to tell a coherent story. But not in this case...

Using Pine Falls as an example. The author shows us the people who live in this town. He describes them in detail, which implies a choice, but he doesn't give us one. From the entire list of characters, we are RIGIDLY singled out a few, of which we are allowed to make a choice. Why? The author simply decided to do so. Moreover, the characters you're given to choose from are among the least interesting of the presented ones (in my opinion, of course, but choosing the sheriff's daughter and the lady who asks you to have a baby with her would have been much more fun and interesting. However, this is, of course, a matter of taste.). This would be perceived as normal if the others were designated purely symbolically, making it clear that this is the only available choice. However, we are given detailed descriptions of many, creating the feeling that we can choose from all of them... and then they disappoint.

Firstly, IDK why you specify "Using Pine Falls as an example". Why would you use anything else when we're specifically talking about this game? Odd clarification, but you do you, Cotton.

Secondly, whether the people were "the least interesting" or not is, as you say, personal taste. That doesn't mean there's anything "wrong" with what Daniels K did. You just have different tastes from his own. That's OK, and you're obviously allowed to feel however you want. I just disagree that "the game's main problem is the author of this game". I agree there are flaws in it, and Daniels K isn't the strongest writer I've run into over my many years in literature and gaming (not even close, to be blunt), but I enjoyed the game just fine, thank you very much.

Thirdly, the additional characters are meant to show that actual people live in the town and to make things more immersive. Just because there are many people living in the town doesn't mean every single one needs to be someone the MC can help escape. Do you know how much extra work that would make, creating paths and variations for all of those different folks? It would become insanely overcomplicated and cumbersome, very likely prone to a host of additional bugs. So, sorry, but I disagree strongly with this point. I think limiting the total number of LIs and people who can leave makes perfect sense. After all, the MC only has one small car that he's using to try to escape. This isn't Train to Busan where everyone else can just drag behind the car to follow him out.

Finally, you're shown an "afterword" showing the characters left behind. For example, the "waitress" is pregnant, and it's implied that the hero will return (I played it a long time ago, but she says there that my father will definitely return. She says it outright.)... but he doesn't. This creates the feeling that the story isn't fully told. The author simply chose the ending that was closest to him and revealed it, while the second one was merely symbolic. And the route where we remained and somehow existed in Pine Falls... there was a clear sense that this was a setup for a continuation of the story, but considering that the author is already working on, in my opinion, his second or third project after this game... He simply gave up on it. Although I would have gladly returned to Pine Falls. So much interesting could have been imagined there. What a shame...

And? If the MC leaves, obviously he won't return to get anyone else. At the end of the story, the MC's choice is escape and proceed with a normal life, or stay and be trapped for (presumably) forever. You're supposed to feel sorry for those left behind. That's the point: it's meant to feel like a tragedy that not everyone will escape. (I mean, the writing isn't especially emotional for me or anything, so I didn't even think about it much after finishing the game. But it's intended to make you feel badly for those who couldn't escape.)

And also in reference to that final point I made, I don't believe returning to Lily's is a canon ending. Yes, it's informative so you have a better idea about what's going on in Pine Falls, but I believe the canon ending is the MC escaping. Could the ending at Lily's have been written better? Sure. And I could be wrong, but I think the MC is supposed to escape officially. I can't remember if a specific LI or pair of LIs is also specified as part of canon or not, but I'm pretty sure the MC is meant to escape in the end. And many — in fact, most — of the citizens in Pine Falls remaining trapped indefinitely is also part of the canon ending.

 

[CARlSON911]

No, that's incorrect. He could choose to stay in Pine Falls (not "return", unless you're talking about heading to Lily's instead of leaving; that's not really returning but just choosing not to escape the second time). The other choices are choosing different LIs when the MC leaves (and who gets left behind). Yes, he either leaves or doesn't, but pretending there's no choice when he's leaving isn't really accurate. You may not think of the choice of LI(s) as different endings, but they were to me: seems pretty straightforward in what I meant by "choices", TBH.

Firstly, IDK why you specify "Using Pine Falls as an example". Why would you use anything else when we're specifically talking about this game? Odd clarification, but you do you, Cotton.

Secondly, whether the people were "the least interesting" or not is, as you say, personal taste. That doesn't mean there's anything "wrong" with what Daniels K did. You just have different tastes from his own. That's OK, and you're obviously allowed to feel however you want. I just disagree that "the game's main problem is the author of this game". I agree there are flaws in it, and Daniels K isn't the strongest writer I've run into over my many years in literature and gaming (not even close, to be blunt), but I enjoyed the game just fine, thank you very much.

Thirdly, the additional characters are meant to show that actual people live in the town and to make things more immersive. Just because there are many people living in the town doesn't mean every single one needs to be someone the MC can help escape. Do you know how much extra work that would make, creating paths and variations for all of those different folks? It would become insanely overcomplicated and cumbersome, very likely prone to a host of additional bugs. So, sorry, but I disagree strongly with this point. I think limiting the total number of LIs and people who can leave makes perfect sense. After all, the MC only has one small car that he's using to try to escape. This isn't Train to Busan where everyone else can just drag behind the car to follow him out.

And? If the MC leaves, obviously he won't return to get anyone else. At the end of the story, the MC's choice is escape and proceed with a normal life, or stay and be trapped for (presumably) forever. You're supposed to feel sorry for those left behind. That's the point: it's meant to feel like a tragedy that not everyone will escape. (I mean, the writing isn't especially emotional for me or anything, so I didn't even think about it much after finishing the game. But it's intended to make you feel badly for those who couldn't escape.)

And also in reference to that final point I made, I don't believe returning to Lily's is a canon ending. Yes, it's informative so you have a better idea about what's going on in Pine Falls, but I believe the canon ending is the MC escaping. Could the ending at Lily's have been written better? Sure. And I could be wrong, but I think the MC is supposed to escape officially. I can't remember if a specific LI or pair of LIs is also specified as part of canon or not, but I'm pretty sure the MC is meant to escape in the end. And many — in fact, most — of the citizens in Pine Falls remaining trapped indefinitely is also part of the canon ending.

You seem to have forgotten one simple thing... The protagonist CHOSE TO STAY. He went to the tunnel one last time, just on a whim, to put the matter to rest. And then, suddenly, he woke up outside the hospital, and then spent a great deal of effort trying to get back. And when he returned, he had no intention of escaping with anyone. He returned to specific people, to stay with them. To stay there, not to lead them out. It's EXACTLY stated in the game. So he took an SUV and filled it with all sorts of supplies, thinking he'd be staying there.

Only the demon saw a chance to escape and began pursuing him... only that forced him to quickly look for a way out, trying to escape Pine Falls.

Also, I don't quite understand your words about tragedy... Where did you see tragedy there? What does it consist of? The only discomfort is the inability to leave and the restriction that you have to stay indoors at night (well, just go wander around a modern big city at night... there's a high risk that it will end up like Pine Falls... lol). Otherwise, they live there peacefully. They don't need anything. They don't die of hunger or thirst. They even have electricity. The demon present behind the scenes also didn't force them to do anything (at least until the protagonist's return) or oppress them in any way. What's the tragedy?

Regarding bugs, that's not at all necessary. Let's say you're given more than one path (say, Lily or someone else you need to escape with)... the second, he stays with the sheriff's daughter and that aforementioned lady, eventually taking over the sheriff's position, if you will (no one is immortal there, everyone ages)... the third, he stays with the waitress, who, by the way, apparently directly stated that she is QUITE SATISFIED with her life in Pine Falls... the fourth, he goes on a rampage with those cultists. There are no bugs there. It's just more work to write afterwords for these routes. You don't even need to create a lot of content for them. Just write, as is usually done in such cases, a short afterword of 3-5 minutes with 10 renders for each route... and there would be no questions, and there would be no feeling of incompleteness.

Let me repeat, in case you didn't hear it, I liked the game. It's just sad that it ended the way it did.

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

You seem to have forgotten one simple thing... The protagonist CHOSE TO STAY. He went to the tunnel one last time, just on a whim, to put the matter to rest. And then, suddenly, he woke up outside the hospital, and then spent a great deal of effort trying to get back. And when he returned, he had no intention of escaping with anyone. He returned to specific people, to stay with them. To stay there, not to lead them out. It's EXACTLY stated in the game. So he took an SUV and filled it with all sorts of supplies, thinking he'd be staying there.

Only the demon saw a chance to escape and began pursuing him... only that forced him to quickly look for a way out, trying to escape Pine Falls.

I didn't forget anything. I don't know why you're mentioning something halfway (or two-thirds of the way or whatever) through the story. That's not what I was talking about with choices; what a weird thing to bring up out of the blue. That's not even close to what we were discussing before. It's like you're saying Jon Snow died and then pretending nothing happened in the rest of A Game of Thrones. The choices I was referring to were at the end. I wasn't talking about anything of what happened leading up to that.

Also, I don't quite understand your words about tragedy... Where did you see tragedy there? What does it consist of? The only discomfort is the inability to leave and the restriction that you have to stay indoors at night (well, just go wander around a modern big city at night... there's a high risk that it will end up like Pine Falls... lol). Otherwise, they live there peacefully. They don't need anything. They don't die of hunger or thirst. They even have electricity. The demon present behind the scenes also didn't force them to do anything (at least until the protagonist's return) or oppress them in any way. What's the tragedy?

So never ever being able to leave and permanently being separated from the outside world (and in some cases, some of your family if they don't happen to live in the town) is not a tragedy? No, sure, nobody would ever feel stuck or have a reason to want to go to the outside world. What a magical, paradisiacal situation to be left in for forever. Truly wonderful. Consigning yourself to your fate doesn't suddenly negate the tragedy of your circumstance.

Regarding bugs, that's not at all necessary. Let's say you're given more than one path (say, Lily or someone else you need to escape with)... the second, he stays with the sheriff's daughter and that aforementioned lady, eventually taking over the sheriff's position, if you will (no one is immortal there, everyone ages)... the third, he stays with the waitress, who, by the way, apparently directly stated that she is QUITE SATISFIED with her life in Pine Falls... the fourth, he goes on a rampage with those cultists. There are no bugs there. It's just more work to write afterwords for these routes. You don't even need to create a lot of content for them. Just write, as is usually done in such cases, a short afterword of 3-5 minutes with 10 renders for each route... and there would be no questions, and there would be no feeling of incompleteness.

Let me repeat, in case you didn't hear it, I liked the game. It's just sad that it ended the way it did.

I'm glad you liked the game. I read that just fine. I happen to disagree with the points you brought up about needing more endings. I don't think it's even remotely sad that it ended as it did, other than the aforementioned tragedy... that you pretend is the perfect way of the world or something.

At this point, I'm done discussing this. You feel how you do, and that's fine. I disagree, and that's fine too.