Porn Game Tropes: The good, the bad, and the fugly

[DarthSeduction]

I always felt that the closet parallel for most adult games is less film and more comic books. Not that film influence isn't there, but I think the framing of shots with limited numbers of pictures for example makes a very close parallel.

Because text is such an important part of the experience... It changes how we consume the game as compared to a movie. Text can set the mood, it lets us get into the heads of characters, and it supplements the visuals as well.

While I think there is a lot to learn from movies... shot composition, dialog rhythm, use of music and more... games are very much their own thing.

Absolutely 100% agreement. If you were to check my youtube history you'd find that half of it is comic books stuff, and the other half film stuff. Ofc there's some gaming stuff thrown in the mix. One guy who does film essays recently started a gaming essay channel and took apart what makes Fallout 4 inferior to 3 and New Vegas by pointing out the lack of choice and the overall linear arc to the story as compared with New Vegas and to a lesser extent 3. It was a pretty good view for anyone making a branching story.

 

[Burt Reynolds Mustache]

Absolutely 100% agreement. If you were to check my youtube history you'd find that half of it is comic books stuff, and the other half film stuff. Ofc there's some gaming stuff thrown in the mix. One guy who does film essays recently started a gaming essay channel and took apart what makes Fallout 4 inferior to 3 and New Vegas by pointing out the lack of choice and the overall linear arc to the story as compared with New Vegas and to a lesser extent 3. It was a pretty good view for anyone making a branching story.

Fallout 2 is still king. Just sayin'.:kisskiss:

Actually Planescape: Torment is...

But back to porn games. I think we are really early in the WEG field right now. I mean we've had professional porn games before, but this indie boom has a lot of the feel of an early garage game development thing. So much of it is figuring out what works, and what doesn't, and a lot of it is done by fans essentially for fans. I'm curious to see how the market looks in 5 years.

 

[IhaveNoPornAndIMustFap]

Fallout 2 is still king. Just sayin'.:kisskiss:

Actually Planescape: Torment is...

I finished Fallout 2 several times with different builds and routes. I could never finish Torment, just gave up somewhere in the middle of it each time... Either there's something wrong with me or the game is paced really badly.

So much of it is figuring out what works, and what doesn't, and a lot of it is done by fans essentially for fans.

Kinda relevant to this thread. It's normal for a "new" artform to quickly generate new tropes as the artists experiment. We give the tropes that we see names (and I like to analyze why they're there)

 

[Fenric Andrias]

Have we done "all girls are bisexual even lesbians" yet?

 

[IhaveNoPornAndIMustFap]

Have we done "all girls are bisexual even lesbians" yet?

No need, tvtropes already has

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Burt Reynolds Mustache]

I finished Fallout 2 several times with different builds and routes. I could never finish Torment, just gave up somewhere in the middle of it each time... Either there's something wrong with me or the game is paced really badly.

Totally something wrong with you. Just sayin...

But nah, Torment has very specific pacing. It's honestly more like an adventure game than a standard RPG, the combat is only passable, and it gets bogged down at a few points. But as far as world building, and characterization, it is top notch. Everything in the game is there for the sake of the main character in one way or the other. It either informs his past, or comments on his current state. The NPCs are all amazing as well, with Morte and Dakkon being especially amazing. Not to mention it's nearly impossible to find a game with storytelling that is that thematically consistent. The entire game is an exploration of regret. It's just exceptional.

Kinda relevant to this thread. It's normal for a "new" artform to quickly generate new tropes as the artists experiment. We give the tropes that we see names (and I like to analyze why they're there)

Yeah analyzing why certain tropes work and do not is very interesting. Because some might like certain tropes, while others find them infuriating. (I mean some people actually LIKE the stairway to heaven.) I really looked into the whole thing when I started trying to really understand NTR and how and why it has the reactions it does. But all the kinks here exist for one reason or another, and all the tropes do too.

For example: the milquetoast main character transcends porn games. You see it in anime, games, and all sorts of stuff. Often because the less defined a personality the main character has, the easier it is to put yourself in their shoes.

 

[IhaveNoPornAndIMustFap]

But as far as world building, and characterization, it is top notch. Everything in the game is there for the sake of the main character in one way or the other. It either informs his past, or comments on his current state.

I remember the last time I gave up, I reached some kind of memory museum where you got to watch the memories of other people. And going through all the memories for what felt like hours, it occurred to me that probably all of these are either from the MC himself, or from people right next to the MC. And then I was like "Ok, I'm done with this game" once more.

I mean some people actually LIKE the stairway to heaven.

(Much) Earlier in the thread, I wrote a defense, an apologia of the Stairway, with the caveat that it's not the Stairway that's fundamentally wrong, indeed it is fundamentally "right", the problem is how it's paced (used for padding/grinding, every monthly updates escalates the stairway for one character by one or two steps etc) - If you could escalate the entire stairway over one or two dates, it'd be fine, but instead you have to get 10 handjobs (once a week on Wednesday 10pm) before you get the first blowjob, etc.

For example: the milquetoast main character transcends porn games. You see it in anime, games, and all sorts of stuff. Often because the less defined a personality the main character has, the easier it is to put yourself in their shoes.

I don't talk of "put yourself in others shoes", that means empathizing ("The character feels angry, so I feel angry"). What you're supposed to do to a protagonist character in a story instead, is relate. ("I can understand his feelings and emotions and problems, I can understand why he's angry and I would probably act or react in a similar manner in the same situation") and the Milquetoast MC (Assuming we're thinking of the same kind of thing) simply tries to be as inoffensive as possible, to maximize the number of readers that can relate to him. For example, a protagonist that's experiencing an outburst of racism, sexism or violence may break the immersion for a lot of people who can't (won't allow) themselves to relate to that. With antagonists, you often don't need to relate but you only need to read them ("I understand WHAT the character is doing and I can speculate on plausible/sensible reasons WHY he is doing it") and antagonists can be your Dickhead Dad, or even the girls - One problem in porn games I recently wrote about is when the unrelatable antagonist girl is at the same time the protagonist. Generally, villains (not to be confused with antagonists) are very hard to relate to because their goals tend to be outright evil and they're often willing to cross the Moral Event Horizon, one impressive feat in general writing is thus when you make a villain relatable.

I don't see the Milquetoast MC that frequently as a porn game trope however. The Milquetoast is mostly in "General Audiences" media, he's so consistently inoffensive so as not to break the relatability to even small children, or girls (as a male character), which ironically can make him unrelatable to adult men. Looking at the "popular games" list, I can only think of Summertime Saga as having a rather Milquetoast MC, whose most offensive action may be peeping on his family members in the shower - which is still highly relatable to the audience of people who would play an incest porn VN. But the MC of Summertime Saga is, like many others, not a character, he doesn't have really internal conflicts or motivations, but is simply a player avatar. Even if you do read, for example, DMDs MC as a real character rather than as an avatar (He does have an annoying and completely superfluous amount of internal conflict) he's already too creepy and villainous to be a milquetoast.

 

[DarthSeduction]

(Much) Earlier in the thread, I wrote a defense, an apologia of the Stairway, with the caveat that it's not the Stairway that's fundamentally wrong, indeed it is fundamentally "right", the problem is how it's paced (used for padding/grinding, every monthly updates escalates the stairway for one character by one or two steps etc) - If you could escalate the entire stairway over one or two dates, it'd be fine, but instead you have to get 10 handjobs (once a week on Wednesday 10pm) before you get the first blowjob, etc.

First, you have me laughing out loud at nearly 3 am. Good Job. Secondly, this is exactly true. As DmD is the worst offender tot he Stariway to Heaven, I've offered a number of rewrites to the game, and had multiple people argue that they like the stairway. I think they are wrong... more to the point, I don't think they have the imagination to see why they're wrong.

I made an outline for a rewrite before. In it I totally make use of the stairway, however I also shrink it down into a 6 day period. By the end of my rewrite of DmD you'd have had full vaginal sex with D. The reason being, the game isn't written as a corruption game, though it keeps trying to be one. It is written as a romance. And as a romance, the drama isn't in the sexual content, it is in the taboo and the secrecy. CH 2 is not about continuing the corruption of D, its about getting her back. In this way, the driving force for playing this game long ago shifted from getting laid, to getting D to fall for you, and keeping her in your life. However, we are still on the stairway... Barely, as of last month, having finally received a blowjob.

DmD could use a total rewrite... That would be fun... My headcanon, and the only way that game works for me, is that week one, everything that happens from her arrival until the moment they reach the beachtown, zero sexual content. Though, I think I'd make it 3 full days before going to the beach town, you'll see why later. No massages, no exposed breasts, no on the lips kissing, none of it. A healthy father daughter reunion and a few days of spending purely platonic time together. We can fill the time with Elena seducing the ginger chick and stuff, just to get some action till then, but that's how I'd do that.

Then, on the beach, D asks MC to help with sunscreen, and he realizes he's excited by touching her body like this while also she realizes she likes being touched by him. It ends a little awkwardly when she moans a bit, and they both freak out, MC says, he's gonna go for drinks or something. Then when he comes back the scene where the guys are propositioning her is happening, so he gets them to leave, and she's given a reason to still trust him, even though they both have these new thoughts. Then that night, the dream where he sees her pleasuring him can cause that existential crisis and it has some weight.

Then later that day but before the dream and existential crisis I'd have them meet the other incest couple again, possibly by straying into the nude beach like before. Maybe they'd even catch them fucking... something to trigger the thoughts for D mostly, as I'd keep with the writing that skews her young, just I wouldn't make her completely naive anymore. A virgin, but not a complete childish angel of virtue. She'd hear the girl call out "Oh, Daddy, fuck me" or something like that, and the idea, much to her surprise won't disgust her. Then, they'd have startled the couple, ruining their moment, but being the charismatic dude that the father over there is, he'd come over to apologize that they saw that, and explain that they'd wandered onto the nude beach, that way we could keep using them to plant the seeds for D to think about it.

I'd have them trapped in the beach town for the rest of the week, rather than just 3 days. This would keep Elena out of the picture, and I could even find a reason that D didn't have her phone or something, maybe it got broken or something, so she uses MC's phone to contact Elena, because he had her number, and have her explain what happened to her mom. So that whole week, goes by, D and MC spending time alone together, sexual tension building, and finally, the night before they leave, the incest couple gives them their tickets to the dinner thing. Same as before, only now we've had a mature growth to their relationship over the last 5 days, all full of corruption of D's thoughts toward incest. None of that corruption coming from MC. In the end, it would be her who comes onto him. Her kisses, her touching... even if they don't go all the way there in the hotel, they'd get farther than a father and daughter should... The next day the nude beach would happen. Just like in the game, only since I've liberated D a lot, MC wouldn't have the drama over his trunks because he'd be nude.

They return home, and see Elena for the day, but D and MC have a date that night. However, unannounced to them, her mother comes to get her, similar situation to the game's ending. She can't get ahold of D because D's phone is still broken. Elena neglects to mention that she can get ahold of MC to give them more time. Meanwhile MC and D leave their date and D is once again all over MC, this night ends with them having sex. And here I put a huge choice, Cum inside or Pull out. No matter what you choose she's going home with her mom tomorrow before you can do anything about it. But If you do it adds a plot to part 2 where not only is D hiding her relationship with you, but the fact that she's pregnant. Drama and conflict for chapter 2 doesn't come from the relationship itself but from hiding it from their mom, and more importantly, if you came inside, what do do about this child. Does D want to abort? Does MC want her to keep it? All of that would be the kind of shit that's going on all while you're trying to get her back.

 

[Heitcaho]

God this whole thread is amazing, my favorite I've found on this site by far. This is my fetish, I've learned so much shit and have gained a better understanding of some of the games on this site by just reading here.

 

[IhaveNoPornAndIMustFap]

So I just played through "Love and Submission" for the first time and was at one point reminded of this bit that I wrote the other day:

Even if you do read, for example, DMDs MC as a real character rather than as an avatar (He does have an annoying and completely superfluous amount of internal conflict) he's already too creepy and villainous to be a milquetoast.

L&S is also going for the avatar thing - and then does internal conflict. "But we're related" is probably an existing trope already for the internal conflict itself. But when the "avatar" suddenly notices that his mom has big juicy milkers and goes "OH NOES I SHOULDNT THINK THIS WAY OF ME MUM" I just wanna tell the writer to fuck off. I noticed the milkies on the first god damn render she was in. Plus I'm not even into her, I'm going for the imouto. This is invariably resulting in a disconnect between the player and the avatar. There should be like, a Howto "How to write a porn game" and in the first chapter it should tell you to define the relationship between the protagonist and the player. If the player IS the protagonist, the protagonist should not express opinions. He/she does not like anyone, he does not dislike anything, he doesn't feel attracted to anyone. That's for the player to decide, and the actions infer those things externally to the world. If the protagonist is a character in its own motivations, preferences and dislikes, then the player is merely some influencing force upon the protagonist, and part of the game is for the player to get to know the protagonist - just like any other character. The question that then remains is whether the goals of the protagonist and the player align.

One game that goes to great lengths to (over)define the precise relationship between the player and the protagonist is My Little Angel - The player avatar is himself a "bad" guardian angel who whispers and subtly influences and corrupts the actual protagonist, the girl Anabel, and the power of influence can be increased through various game mechanics. Then, the avatar is again given a face and a name and a minimal motivation (to be a lewd bastard) - This is overdefining it - You could just as well treat the player directly AS the guy. But as a device to keep player and protagonist as separate entities, it works very well.

Now my problem is, I see mishandled writing, but I don't see Tropes per se, or at least I can't name them. Some help please?

 

[DarthSeduction]

One game that goes to great lengths to (over)define the precise relationship between the player and the protagonist is My Little Angel - The player avatar is himself a "bad" guardian angel who whispers and subtly influences and corrupts the actual protagonist, the girl Anabel, and the power of influence can be increased through various game mechanics. Then, the avatar is again given a face and a name and a minimal motivation (to be a lewd bastard) - This is overdefining it - You could just as well treat the player directly AS the guy. But as a device to keep player and protagonist as separate entities, it works very well.

I don't remember it being there in the original, but with the reboot of Vis Major, Vis Major Awakening, the dev has done something similar with the player and Cara. This actually bugs the hell out of me. You first notice it in the beginning when we see Cara already in her completed form. She's talking to you about needing to see her memories. She's talking to you about how you're going to be the one to help her and guide her on her adventures. Then later, in the game, when you'll do things like, not have her get dressed before her mom enters the bathroom she'll question "Why didn't I get dressed, I meant to...?"

I get that it's intended to separate the player and his motivations from the character and theirs, but all that does is allow the writer to hide the fact that they're writing a Female Player Antagonist. You see, I think my favourite version of the writing for a player avatar is Tabitha. The way he accomplishes this is simple, those lines about things we may or may not wasn't the character to comment on are made into choices.

The first time I notice this is when you go find the cook's son. You of course find him masturbating and depending on your choice to approach him or not, he either cums on you, or is startled after and leaves his soiled picture of an Alcurian behind. You can choose to have Tabitha touch it, then taste it, then decide whether or not she likes it. At all times, how much affection you have for Lily is a choice. How you feel about the prince, if you choose to go through with his blackmail is up to you. At every point Tabitha is given the choice to decide how she feels. What this means is that Tabitha doesn't feel anything we don't tell her to feel. It makes it so that this curvy little half demon half elf is more of an avatar for the player than any of the main characters in most stories.

Now my problem is, I see mishandled writing, but I don't see Tropes per se, or at least I can't name them. Some help please?

Were this to be made into a trope, I'd go with something along the lines of

"Rebellious Player Avatar"

This is when an MC seemingly has a mind of their own, separate from the desires of the player.

How to decide what goes in here would be the problem. Because Love and Submission is a great example, as would be literally any Player Antagonist (male or female, with femdom games doing the same as molestation games). Or would we leave out the Player Antagonists, because they, supposedly, aren't supposed to be a player avatar? Would we include every incest game where the MC has an existential crisis over incest, or some other taboo? (i.e. she's my student, or she's my daughter's best friend, or we're in public) To an extent I see this crisis as part of what makes taboo interesting, the build up of the issue, but I can see how there might be ways to do it otherwise.

 

[weaselman]

There are a couple of quick scenes of this in Waifu Academy too, work checking out if you're into it. It also fails the trope test though in that you can cum all over her (I think up to 3 times) and she never acknowledges it once. Instead she has 'dreams' that make her fall in love with you

waifu academy mentions that you wipe it of her though

 

[weaselman]

another game that's a russian grindfest is haramase simulator

one girl moves every week to one of 4 locations, 2 of those locations lock of the respective other one for that week

another girl's side quest is only available once you impregnate another girl 20 times, 20 times!, even the irish mostly stop after 10, the kickers?: that girl is especially noted as "difficult to impregnate" and there's no indication that this is how you do it except you get an achievement for doing that and a vague note "to continue the story with the teacher" (except there isn't really a story to continue, you just have to continue railing her over a desk and wait out the pregnancies)

 

[Vortex5000]

This thread is pure gold, and really covers all the bases as to why the porn game genre is still really pretty weak. My girlfriend greatly enjoys watching porn with me from time to time to get things heated for us. However, she absolutely DESPISES every game I've shown her because the MC's are almost all despicable human beings and/or socially awkward as fuck and yet somehow every woman trips over themselves to get in their bed. The only sexual game she ever enjoyed was that huniepop game (which I actually never played) because apparently the game play itself (it's apparently like bejewled) was good and she could just collect cute anime girl pictures.

 

[weaselman]

This thread is pure gold, and really covers all the bases as to why the porn game genre is still really pretty weak. My girlfriend greatly enjoys watching porn with me from time to time to get things heated for us. However, she absolutely DESPISES every game I've shown her because the MC's are almost all despicable human beings and/or socially awkward as fuck and yet somehow every woman trips over themselves to get in their bed. The only sexual game she ever enjoyed was that huniepop game (which I actually never played) because apparently the game play itself (it's apparently like bejewled) was good and she could just collect cute anime girl pictures.

the gameplay is pretty much bejeweled with some features added on but the anime pictures are good

surprised that she liked it though as that story falls into some of the same pit-traps as other porn games

1) magic is used to have a girl forget any bad date she ever had
2) you're encouraged to rather then having a personality or opinions of your own to talk each girl to the mouth

 

[Vortex5000]

the gameplay is pretty much bejeweled with some features added on but the anime pictures are good

surprised that she liked it though as that story falls into some of the same pit-traps as other porn games

1) magic is used to have a girl forget any bad date she ever had
2) you're encouraged to rather then having a personality or opinions of your own to talk each girl to the mouth

I dont think she gave a shit about the story. She likes bejeweled and anime girls, I don't think it was really more complicated than that. Problem with VN's and even the "RPG"'s here (which are so basic it hurts to even call them an RPG) is they have no gameplay elements to distract from all the shit dialogue and storytelling.

 

[shineek]

Dont really have anything in mind currently for the good tropes, for the bad ones? Well, i hate when 90% of the time all rape games turn into mind break/corruption. You pick a game with rape, and the first scene the protagonist gets raped she ends enjoying it halfway throught the scene. I understand that some ppl like the corruption part, but goddamit why every time in almost every game the same thing. Its like a crappy anime cliche that is so overused that its already so boring that no one wants to see it, yet anime makers still use it and make tons of shitty anime each season.

 

[Lykanz]

Oh! I just realized another trope!

The neglected, sex deprived/depraved wife!

You know that caring, pleasant, middle aged woman down the street? Yeah, the one who always greets you with a smile and asks about your mom, saying she'll visit sometime?

That good natured woman who exhales niceness and sympathy?

Don't be fooled, she's in truth a sex deprived/depraved woman who isn't getting dicked by her husband for ages now (usually after their youngest son was born), or maybe she's a widow, who didn't hook up with anyone since her husband died.

Even though she dresses nicelly and covers most of her skin, she actually has some pretty racy underwear, which she uses to try and motivate her small dicked, fat husband to fuck her, only to be flat out turned down before he turns away and starts snoring and farting.

She doesn't see you as the kid she saw growing up... She sees you as a piece of meat with a dick, a dick that she would gladly jump at the first oportunity she had. She just doesn't do that because "Golly gee, what would others think! Besides, how could that wimpy, virgin kid down the street be interested in an old rag like me, lawd no!"

What happens most of the time is that she isn't an "old rag"... They usually come equipped with HUGE knockers, WIDE, child bearing hips and a tight pussy that gets drenched at the slightest mention of sex (that's just how depraved she is), said pussy is also extremely tight, so much that it would put shame to any virgin highschool girl (even though she had like, 2 or 3 children already). Oh yeah, they also have a face that doesn't look like she's nearing her 50s.

You noticed I used both deprived and depraved? Yup, that's right... When she finds a guy she can trust (or that can dominate her) that angelical, innocent looking lady turns into a cock hungry slut, who's only care in the world is having her womb smashed by his dick.

Be aware though... That lady could live closer than you think... Closer as in... YOUR HOUSE!

Examples: Megan (Corruption), Mom from Summertime Saga... Actually... Most moms and MILFs in most WEGs.

 

[thecardinal]

Damn, it's like you've been reading my notes @Lykanz

 

[Lykanz]

Damn, it's like you've been reading my notes @Lykanz

Wait a sec... Do we have the same notes?

:OhMyGoodness: