- Jun 15, 2018
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Not much *badumdiss*
Which is the main problem...and changing directions what it should be, it seems.
- Thread starter RedKing
- Start date
Which is the main problem...and changing directions what it should be, it seems.
- Feb 16, 2020
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if you look at the devs patreon you can see that the game is still being actively developed and theres been a new version out since may that nobody shared here yet, that combined with the lack of supporters on his patreon shows the lack of interest in this game, which i dont really get since i personally think its better than 90% of the games on this website
It's because in the past the dev has either been on hiatus or rebooting the game. You never know, if a new version will have more or less content than the previous one and the chance of this gaming getting abandoned are pretty high.
- Jun 15, 2018
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When you know your project is a hobby with the schedule "whenever", a monthly patreon is hard to support.
There are models of pay-per-release which would be much fairer to support.
There are models of pay-per-release which would be much fairer to support.
- Apr 17, 2017
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Would that actually change the equation though? It seems to me that would just encourage smaller/quicker update packets that lead us back to the same "not enough content to warrant my money" arguments. The nature of patronage is to encourage or enable the work, not as payment for services rendered. Despite a new definition having been added to the lexicon quite recently, I think the original and primary usage of the word is the most apt for Patreon.
Conversely, can you not create your own pay-per-release model as the patron? I often subscribe to a project to make a single download, then cancel the subscription until I wish to donate again, which achieves the same reality.
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- Nov 5, 2017
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I agree on many of the points. We differ a bit in our implementation. Normally I have a rule of thumb, where I wait 6 months, to see how well the development fares. Should there be a lack of transparency and communication and a very unsteady/unsatisfying work being done on the project. Then I simply never support said project. No matter how "promising" the sales pitch is and how lofty the ambitions are.
Waiting 6 months already cuts out like 80% of games. As they die after the 0.01 or 0.02 release. And all the idiots who thought money would immediately flow into their lap with a minimum of effort. Those types always gives up way too fast and blames everyone else.
Waiting so long also weeds out the complete newbies, who simply managed, to make a few good renders. They never realize how much work goes into making a game. More often than not there's barely any plans or work structure. As such the game never had much of a chance. You know the games. They sort of stay in limbo.
Making games stopped being a hobby, when money became involved and should be taken more seriously. "You" never intended to put much work into the project? Then I know, it'll never amount to much and I don't see why, I should ever support such a project.
I'd be more forgiving, I know the guys got a long release cycle but he caught covid according to a September 22 post.
- Nov 5, 2017
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So he had Covid for 4 years? How much has been added since the initial release(?). He kept taking stuff out and then adding them back in... that's not progress. It sucks, that he got a flu, that is stastically 100 times less likely to kill him than the common flu. Yet what should be judged is his work on the project and whether you want to support this development and work ethic.
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That does work well, though it does nothing to help encourage a new project to continue by demonstrating any genuine interest in the project to the content creator. Perhaps a more useful metric, though more subjective, would be to base it on amount and/or quality of content rather than time. I have seen plenty of games here that release comparatively huge initial releases. Would it be reasonable to apply the same time considerations to that project, as one which may update weekly but still has less content after 6 months then does the other?
For instance, a game dropped in the last month and, despite being a first project from the dev, is much more smooth than the vast majority of similar style games. Compare that to the myriad of devs that drop a small release in a highly bugged program, followed by regular updates that add fragments of content followed by more debug updates. You may see all the effort, and constant interaction, over the next 6 months, just to finally refine the base program to something comparable to the aforementioned game's initial release.
- Nov 5, 2017
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New and unknown devs should NEVER expect to make much in the first YEAR. If the development hinges on making a major profit beforehand, then it shows them as being out of touch with reality, having poor management, and a lack of a serious commitment. These are very poor signs in and of themselves.
Encouragement? If they already burn out over that time, the project was dead to begin with and they never had what it took. The audience is not there to pamper them like little babies. Seeing the project evolve into something you like. The excitement of getting the ideas out there, that was in your head into something more concrete. The creative freedom to do what you want. This is what it is about. Making money comes at being good at the craft and being able to excite others with it.
Should they instead have a portfolio of games under their belts. Not neccesarily adult games. Just something to show, that they know, what they are doing. That they have a realistic and commited plan, which they follow. Then yes, there's grounds to consider supporting them earlier. Most of the Patreon devs are complete green horns. Would you pay a plummer who have only seen a lot of toilets and with a surface area knowledge of the plumming involved? That he is completely incompetent and it takes him ages to do, what a professional would do in a quarter of the time. Is not an excuse. It's a sign of his bad craftmanship.
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- Feb 14, 2018
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Had a Quick play and it looks like its got a new menu but i didn't notice any new content. But i missed it XD
I've got no idea where you get that statistic from, unless you're vaccinated there's a pretty high chance of serious complications, but I'm not gonna go into detail on f95. It's more that he's been releasing details and stuff on what he's working on. I'd give him some slack when he's seriously ill.
You seem to have strong feelings on the matter, though that analogy is utterly out of context, in my estimation. It is not as if you walk into a public restroom and say "Hey, you have seen a toilet, so here is $100 to come repair mine". Such a comparison would only be applicable to this, if you came home and someone had repaired your busted toilet, and said you can pay them whatever you want.
- Nov 5, 2017
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If someone comes to your house without an invitation and expect money from you... you shoot them xD
That guys point was that Covid isn't an excuse given how the game started development in 2017 long before covid could've been a problem and yeah the version I played 3 years ago had some real potential however the entire game has been redone and last I checked the game didn't even get back to the amount of content it had 3 years ago which would also be the actual reason why this project doesn't get much attention.
So while I would cut him some slack for not getting anything done this year it's also really not the problem here. There've been atleast two updates that no the OP didn't even bother putting in the changelog for and the games progress has already been extremely slow 3 years ago.
With that being said however I don't expect anyone to create anything in their spare time and it only would be a problem for me if he would make thousands of dollars on patreon each month, that's when it's no longer "just a hobby" but becomes an actual responsebility to your patreon however until someone could actually fully support themselves from their patreon money they've got absolutely zero moral obligation to "waste" time on a project like this
- Nov 5, 2017
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The question wasn't so much about the developers "obligation". Legally there's a lot of leeway on Patreon in regards to obligations.
The moral obligation intertwining with ideas of common sense and reasonability making that judgement more of a case by case thing.
The question is simple. Is the development presented worth your money? The supporters have an obligation to themselves, to see whether it's a scam or not. Most of the effective con artists on Patreon always rolls out with a lot of "potential". The hook. It differs what they use, to keep you on the line. People wanting to support a project always have to look at the actual work being done. ALWAYS.
This game is an interesting case study on potential meeting reality in amateur adult game development.
It is almost impossible for a single developer to manage a game by themselves, there is just too much work to do and only so many hours one person can put in. Even simple cookie cutter renpy games take hours and hours of grinding away to turn out scenes and link them together. Anything requiring real software development knowledge and 3D environments is scaling that effort up another dimension. Animations are another massive time sink.
It is also not a good idea for the artist to be the lead developer on a project. There are plenty of examples of promising games that get stuck in their own development hell because of the artists fickle temperament or obsession over perfection. What content does get finished gets removed later, or reworked at the expense of anything getting finished.
It's too bad, because from what little content there is here it looks like MOMOTD has the kind of creativity and artistic talent most devs whos games turn up here lack. The animations in the noir scene were good. They were animated (as in making the character models seem like more than dolls), had interesting poses, and changes in intensity. The camera work and lighting in the cutscenes showed a basic grasp of directing as well. Even the short lesbian scene was way more interesting than 99% of the default posed DAZ models that turn up in most VN's.
There are good developers who turn out content like clockwork but lack that artistic or storytelling inspiration, then there are talented artists and storytellers who aren't quite the right people to develop a game.
It is almost impossible for a single developer to manage a game by themselves, there is just too much work to do and only so many hours one person can put in. Even simple cookie cutter renpy games take hours and hours of grinding away to turn out scenes and link them together. Anything requiring real software development knowledge and 3D environments is scaling that effort up another dimension. Animations are another massive time sink.
It is also not a good idea for the artist to be the lead developer on a project. There are plenty of examples of promising games that get stuck in their own development hell because of the artists fickle temperament or obsession over perfection. What content does get finished gets removed later, or reworked at the expense of anything getting finished.
It's too bad, because from what little content there is here it looks like MOMOTD has the kind of creativity and artistic talent most devs whos games turn up here lack. The animations in the noir scene were good. They were animated (as in making the character models seem like more than dolls), had interesting poses, and changes in intensity. The camera work and lighting in the cutscenes showed a basic grasp of directing as well. Even the short lesbian scene was way more interesting than 99% of the default posed DAZ models that turn up in most VN's.
There are good developers who turn out content like clockwork but lack that artistic or storytelling inspiration, then there are talented artists and storytellers who aren't quite the right people to develop a game.