Ren'Py Abandoned Power Vacuum [Ch. 12 Official] [What? Why? Games]

[altairwolverine]

has there been a dev besides NLT who has been consistent and truthful with update schedules? i understand these games take time but come tf on. over a year is crazy. it's going to be barely two hours worth of content too isn't it

EpicLust's games aren't even close to "for everyone," but he maintains a fairly consistent monthly update schedule and pauses the Patreon whenever there isn't an update

 

[Beardedsmith]

So after he posted the "notice" of the delayed update, did he respond to anything, or said nothing at all.

Legit not trying to be mean or a jerk here but expecting anything from him is a fool's errand. Every time he lies and delays the game, and I do maintain that saying you won't do something and doing it anyway IS lying, he disappears and lets his fans run interference till the whole thing blows over.

Which is why I, personally, get frustrated with his fans. They take the heat for him and don't even get regonized by him for the effort. And an adult game shouldn't need an unpaid PR department anyway.

Unlike a lot of other creators who do things like this, and WWG does have a history of doing this, WWG is legitimately talented and his fans are pleasant people. So it's legitimately frustrating to see any criticism aggressively shouted down while people twist themselves into pretzels to try and figure out what imaginary situation could have happened because lord knows WWG will never come out and say he messed up.

 

[elbo911]

Legit not trying to be mean or a jerk here but expecting anything from him is a fool's errand. Every time he lies and delays the game, and I do maintain that saying you won't do something and doing it anyway IS lying, he disappears and lets his fans run interference till the whole thing blows over.

Which is why I, personally, get frustrated with his fans. They take the heat for him and don't even get regonized by him for the effort. And an adult game shouldn't need an unpaid PR department anyway.

Unlike a lot of other creators who do things like this, and WWG does have a history of doing this, WWG is legitimately talented and his fans are pleasant people. So it's legitimately frustrating to see any criticism aggressively shouted down while people twist themselves into pretzels to try and figure out what imaginary situation could have happened because lord knows WWG will never come out and say he messed up.

Well, I can only speak for myself. I am a fan of WWG's, yeah, and I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt. I don't have to 'twist myself into a pretzel' for that. I can easily believe that some bad stuff is going on in his life and he simply has bigger fish to fry than finishing a porn game. I don't know of course, it might actually be that he is just lazy. Again, I'm choosing to give him the benefit of the doubt. And that's my choice to make. My opinion.

Others, like you, may interpret the facts they see differently and come to other conclusions. That's alright as well.

What frustrates me though is when people consider their own opinions as facts, and belittle others for what they choose to believe. That goes for both sides of course.

You can believe what you want, but don't belittle me or feel 'frustrated' with me because I don't share your opinion. My opinion does nothing to you, let me have it.

I wasn't overly friendly to some people here myself in the past days, but it was never about them having another opinion. It was about them selling their opinions as facts and mocking others for not sharing them.

 

[Fayn Arawn]

Legit not trying to be mean or a jerk here but expecting anything from him is a fool's errand. Every time he lies and delays the game, and I do maintain that saying you won't do something and doing it anyway IS lying, he disappears and lets his fans run interference till the whole thing blows over.

Which is why I, personally, get frustrated with his fans. They take the heat for him and don't even get regonized by him for the effort. And an adult game shouldn't need an unpaid PR department anyway.

Unlike a lot of other creators who do things like this, and WWG does have a history of doing this, WWG is legitimately talented and his fans are pleasant people. So it's legitimately frustrating to see any criticism aggressively shouted down while people twist themselves into pretzels to try and figure out what imaginary situation could have happened because lord knows WWG will never come out and say he messed up.

I'm not sure what you mean, that WWG said he'd wouldn't do something but did it anyway. I assume you mean he wouldn't delay the game again? I dont think he ever said that.

Also, WWG's fans aren't the (only?) aggressive ones in these debates.

But let me point out that many of those fans (like me) are also financial supporters of WWG. It's a fool's errand to try and change our views. If we conceded to the critics, and then stopped supporting WWG, he might stop working on the game altogether. So how about you let us cling to hope, and if we're lucky you'll eventually get something out of it.

 

[SuddenReal]

Every time he lies and delays the game, and I do maintain that saying you won't do something and doing it anyway IS lying

Care to point out when he did this? Because I know he has delayed the game once or twice before and explained his reasons why, but to say "every time" makes it seems he does this regulary (which I don't recall being the case).

 

[pinkie96]

I'm not sure what you mean, that WWG said he'd wouldn't do something but did it anyway. I assume you mean he wouldn't delay the game again? I dont think he ever said that.

Also, WWG's fans aren't the (only?) aggressive ones in these debates.

But let me point out that many of those fans (like me) are also financial supporters of WWG. It's a fool's errand to try and change our views. If we conceded to the critics, and then stopped supporting WWG, he might stop working on the game altogether. So how about you let us cling to hope, and if we're lucky you'll eventually get something out of it.

What he said he wouldn't do was take a month to do a rewrite. He also didn't hard confirm may.

The actual problem is leaving it close to the expected release to drop an "at least two more months". If he only needed 1 month to complete it then whatever got worse to slow things down to triple the time must have happened early in the month.

 

[elbo911]

If he only needed 1 month to complete it then whatever got worse to slow things down to triple the time must have happened early in the month.

Not really, no.

 

[14137]

Care to point out when he did this? Because I know he has delayed the game once or twice before and explained his reasons why, but to say "every time" makes it seems he does this regulary (which I don't recall being the case).

Well, I can only speak for myself. I am a fan of WWG's, yeah, and I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt. I don't have to 'twist myself into a pretzel' for that. I can easily believe that some bad stuff is going on in his life and he simply has bigger fish to fry than finishing a porn game. I don't know of course, it might actually be that he is just lazy. Again, I'm choosing to give him the benefit of the doubt. And that's my choice to make. My opinion.

Others, like you, may interpret the facts they see differently and come to other conclusions. That's alright as well.

What frustrates me though is when people consider their own opinions as facts, and belittle others for what they choose to believe. That goes for both sides of course.

You can believe what you want, but don't belittle me or feel 'frustrated' with me because I don't share your opinion. My opinion does nothing to you, let me have it.

I wasn't overly friendly to some people here myself in the past days, but it was never about them having another opinion. It was about them selling their opinions as facts and mocking others for not sharing them.

I'm not sure what you mean, that WWG said he'd wouldn't do something but did it anyway. I assume you mean he wouldn't delay the game again? I dont think he ever said that.

Also, WWG's fans aren't the (only?) aggressive ones in these debates.

But let me point out that many of those fans (like me) are also financial supporters of WWG. It's a fool's errand to try and change our views. If we conceded to the critics, and then stopped supporting WWG, he might stop working on the game altogether. So how about you let us cling to hope, and if we're lucky you'll eventually get something out of it.

The fundamental problem is that he shouldn't have made this promise that he couldn't keep.
Whether they are paying players or free players, these are the people who love his work.
After waiting for more than a year, everyone is getting anxious.
At this time, he came out and made a release preview, which pushed his popularity to the peak.
Then he disappointed everyone. Disappointed and angry.
Any responsible person should stick to his promises,
Unless there is a serious physical disability accident, let he suddenly couldn't get his work done.
(I have praised this game more than once.
I now accept the go on wait too.
But it is really not worth arguing for him to break his promise this time. )

 

[pinkie96]

Not really, no.

You think it's more likely that it happened later and the remaining dev time needed was increased by 2000% rather than increasing to 300%?

 

[elbo911]

The fundamental problem is that he shouldn't have made this promise that he couldn't keep.
Whether they are paying players or free players, these are the people who love his work.
After waiting for more than a year, everyone is getting anxious.
At this time, he came out and made a release preview, which pushed his popularity to the peak.
Then he disappointed everyone. Disappointed and angry.
Any responsible person should stick to his promises,
Unless there is a serious physical disability accident, let he suddenly couldn't get his work done.
(I have praised this game more than once.
I now accept the go on wait.
But it is really not worth arguing for him to break his promise this time. )

He never promised anything though.
On Feb 2, he wrote he expected a march release.
On March 2, he posted this:

Every update cycle, I somehow forget how persnickety I am when it comes to writing. I know this is a silly porn game but I'd rather die than phone it in. If you've been around long enough, you'll remember the time I took an entire month off to do a rewrite. Luckily, that isn't happening and I plan on releasing the update this month. Sadly, no teasers today. I promise to surprise you with some variety teasers soon.
I'll let you know if anything comes up. I've been working non-stop on the update and my brain feels like I've taken a cheese grater to it. Thanks for checking in and I hope to see you later this month!

So, he planned on releasing in march, and he hoped to see his patrons later that month (with the release).

He sure sounded optimistic about it, but he never promised anything.

What I find most debatable is 'I'll let you know if anything comes up.' People make assumptions that he must have known earlier than he let us know, but that's pure speculation. Maybe, maybe not. And yeah, it would be preferable if he'd told us more, or any actually, details as to why the update got postponed. But it is what it is.

 

[Mmind]

Now that we can conclusively say that it was not an April fools joke, it was very messed up of WWG to do. The only excuses I would accept would be if his SO is divorcing him because he has spent too much time developing the game, or he or a close family has come down with a debilitating illness, if it is neither of those then WWG has entered the territory of every other milking dev.

 

[Beardedsmith]

You can believe what you want, but don't belittle me or feel 'frustrated' with me because I don't share your opinion. My opinion does nothing to you, let me have it.

I do feel frustrated with you for not being willing to say "hey I still support him and I believe in his product but what he did is shitty and he should have handled it differently." And I don't think that being frustrated with someone or a group of someones is belittling.

I'm not sure what you mean, that WWG said he'd wouldn't do something but did it anyway. I assume you mean he wouldn't delay the game again? I dont think he ever said that.

Also, WWG's fans aren't the (only?) aggressive ones in these debates.

But let me point out that many of those fans (like me) are also financial supporters of WWG. It's a fool's errand to try and change our views. If we conceded to the critics, and then stopped supporting WWG, he might stop working on the game altogether. So how about you let us cling to hope, and if we're lucky you'll eventually get something out of it.

He did say that, directly. And it always comes down to the assumption that any critic is not also a financial supporter so that it can justify dismissing the criticism. That's not always the case and it certainly isn't here.

 

[elbo911]

You think it's more likely that it happened later and the remaining dev time needed was increased by 2000% rather than increasing to 300%?

One thing being more likely than another doesn't mean the first thing

MUST

be the one that is true.

If whatever happened prevents him from doing anything for the game at all for the next 2 months or so, it will take him at least 2 months to do those last bits that may only be missing.

Maybe he, like me, has a planned 5 weeks hospital stay beginning in April. Maybe, like me, he recently had his apartment flooded due to a water main break and now has to run after craftsmen, insurance companies and a landlord to get the floor and the plumbing fixed before he leaves. Maybe, like me, he also has his teeth acting up and pays visits to the dentist about every second day.
Probably not, but I actually am in that very situation atm. Sorry for boring you with my life story.

 

[elbo911]

I do feel frustrated with you for not being willing to say "hey I still support him and I believe in his product but what he did is shitty and he should have handled it differently." And I don't think that being frustrated with someone or a group of someones is belittling.

But I have no reason to say that because I'm not convinced that 'what he did was shitty'. That's what I'm talking about. He thought and hoped he could deliver the update in March, but he failed. If he failed due to his own shortcomings or force majeure, we don't know. You can assume all you want, but you don't know, and I'm not obligated to share your assumptions.

 

[Fayn Arawn]

He did say that, directly. And it always comes down to the assumption that any critic is not also a financial supporter so that it can justify dismissing the criticism. That's not always the case and it certainly isn't here.

It would be helpful if you provided evidence of what he said, before one of us has to resort to "nuh-uh times infinity".

I'm not saying supporters can't criticize. That's up to each supporter to decide, and even my own Thranduil-level patience has its limits.

What I am saying is that some of us need to disagree with the most aggressive critics, and keep the faith by continuing our support of WWG, otherwise the project could be doomed to fail in a self-fulfilling prophecy.

But if you'd rather be right than see chapter 13, keep at it I guess.

 

[pinkie96]

One thing being more likely than another doesn't mean the first thing

be the one that is true.

If whatever happened prevents him from doing anything for the game at all for the next 2 months or so, it will take him at least 2 months to do those last bits that may only be missing.

Maybe he, like me, has a planned 5 weeks hospital stay beginning in April. Maybe, like me, he recently had his apartment flooded due to a water main break and now has to run after craftsmen, insurance companies and a landlord to get the floor and the plumbing fixed before he leaves. Maybe, like me, he also has his teeth acting up and pays visits to the dentist about every second day.
Probably not, but I actually am in that very situation atm. Sorry for boring you with my life story.

He said "update is still progressing, just at a slower pace." not that it had been put on pause. 2 days left of dev time turning into 60+ days is nowhere near as likely as 30 turning into 90+

There's no way the game needs only two days to cook but WWG has no time to do it for 2 months

 

[elbo911]

He said "update is still progressing, just at a slower pace." not that it had been put on pause. 2 days left of dev time turning into 60+ days is nowhere near as likely as 30 turning into 90+

There's no way the game needs only two days to cook but WWG has no time to do it for 2 months

*sigh*
Yes, he said that. If we should take every word literally or he really only meant to say 'the update is gonna come, it'll just take longer', we don't know.
I'm not in the mood to play Sherlock Holmes here. What I meant to point out was that there may be scenarios that you didn't think of. But if making claims about what is likely and what isn't just for the heck of it pleases you, knock yourself out.

 

[pinkie96]

*sigh*
Yes, he said that. If we should take every word literally or he really only meant to say 'the update is gonna come, it'll just take longer', we don't know.
I'm not in the mood to play Sherlock Holmes here. What I meant to point out was that there may be scenarios that you didn't think of. But if making claims about what is likely and what isn't just for the heck of it pleases you, knock yourself out.

No. you tried to claim both were equally likely as to prevent a shred of criticism to WWG. There's no scenario to excuse leaving the status update until a couple days before expected release.

You don't have to be Sherlock to figure out that the Dev time left didn't go from 2 days to 60

 

[elbo911]

you tried to claim both were equally likely

Nope, never did that. I said one thing being more likely than the other doesn't mean the 'more likely' thing must be the one that is true.

There's no scenario to excuse leaving the status update until a couple days before expected release.

None that you've managed (or even tried) to think of yet.

If you think you've figured something out, good for you. I still disagree. Let's leave it at that.

 

[preglovr12]

None that you've managed (or even tried) to think of yet.

If you think you've figured something out, good for you. I still disagree. Let's leave it at that.

You might want to re-read his March 29th report, he outright says he's "been having issues". There's nothing wrong with him wanting to keep personal things to himself, but he clearly broke his word that he'd keep people apprised of the situation.