VN Ren'Py "Project Caffeine" - (Futa, Inc3st, Low Fantasy) [Development Thread] - Update 07/28

[junkgkj]

I'll need to know the answer to my question about how Kate is first.
Depending on if she has nuance and can have even a little feeling for those she pursues or if she is a straight up hunter going after prey can have a massive impact on how story and scenes go.

Kate has the potential to be one of the most interesting and multi-layered characters. And I think that is one of my big draws towards her specifically.
She and Amelia dated before, but, say, Amelia broke it off.
Amelia is looking for more on the emotional level, but at the time they dated, Kate couldn't provide it because she was more of a pure dominant, hunter type.
Maybe Kate doesn't know specifically why she is into Amelia more than others, she just knows she is and wants her.
Doesn't mean she can't still have her personality, but she just has a little bit of a different attitude with Amelia to satisfy Amelia's needs... and get her to want to be impaled on Kate's giga-dong and bred repeatedly.
And then it also affects the perspective of Laura as well. Since she knows Kate,. and could possibly seethe difference between her fooling around with others and her outlook on Amelia. Thus, it creates a different inner conflict for Laura on this specific route.

There is a lot that can be done, but I don't go neck deep into it until we know what the plans are, or if the input is wanted, since my first position is to see what Coffee wants to do and hype over it..

 

[CoffeeCurse]

And cock rings and Prince Alberts....

Ohhhh absoooolutelyyyy! It's a must!!!

I'm assuming the body/facial piercings don't apply to everyone? I like some elegant ear piercings, like what Amelia has. I think I'm good with the ladder cock piercing you said Sabrina will have since it adds a bit to the kind of depravity route she is on.
However, will characters get more as time goes by? And if so, will they be optional or mandatory?
If mandatory, can you name characters who will and won't go down that route?

No, there will be a nice variety across all characters! Some with no tattoos/piercing, and some with absolute metal faces and full tattoo sleeves. And also some that are somewhere in the middle. It will make sense to the character and align with their personality and vibe. I won't be able to do optional body features as that's an impossible exponential addition to my render load. Mandatory piercings/tattoo additions that characters will get over time, will likely be connected to the story, side quests, or part of supporter decisions. They won't be too drastic!

I can't name anyone. Half the fun is finding out who has body art and who doesn't.

I'm also interested in knowing how ubiquitous piercings will be. I don't mind conventional piercings. I don't mind unconventional piercings. I don't mind multiple piercings on one person. But I do dislike it when piercings are everywhere, or on everyone. So I would personally hope that the number of characters with lots of piercings would be limited to a few.

That being said, having piercings (or tattoos, or other body modifications) be optional for any character who will have more than one scene would likely increase the number of renders needed by a significant amount.

Like I said above, it will be tasteful and be based on the character's personality. So for example: Sabrina is a mega goth, with an aggressive personality... she will have lots of piercings. Iris is a sweet buttercup with a very soft personality, she will have no piercings (aside from her ears), and will likely never acquire more.

Also above, multiple versions of each single render due to a variation of piercings is an impossible workload that no developer will take on. It's not feasible--at least in this category of development. I did the math on "exponential workload" in an earlier post, SEE BOTTOM OF THIS POST!

I'm not a fan of tattoos and non-earlobe piercings in general but if they fit a character then I warm up to them.
Carmen, for example, looks solid and the new tattoo Coffee mentioned will probably work with her as well. The tattoos and piercings she has suits her!
But I'm not a fan of the "good or proper girl" character (Amelia or Iris, for example) getting piercings everywhere, tramp stamps, etc. after going down a specific lewd route.

You're on the money with this.

I think you are right. Obviously I don't know Coffee's work process, but unless there's an army of render machines, having 6-8 characters with multiple body modification options just skyrockets the amount of renders.
Imagine a 2 character scene, where both characters can have tattoos and/or piercings. With a 20 render scene, that means every image must be rendered 9 times (or 6 and do it with post work). That's a lot.

You are exactly right here. And I have one rapidly aging computer. I explained an example of just how impossible it would be to do things like this in an earlier post: SEE BELOW!

Exponential Development Example, And Why It Isn't Feasible.

As an example: Let's say a game, has you make a choice 24 times in one chapter. Now each of those choices, only has two options. So A or B. Sounds easy enough right? Well... let's do the math... if we want EVERY choice to affect the story and subsequent dialogue... that means that game would have to create 2 to the power of 24 different dialogues. That means that developer would have to create... get ready... 16,777,216 different dialogues by the end of the chapter!!!

(I like math... )

 

[CoffeeCurse]

Honestly my biggest problem with the NTR tag is that it's so broad. It can range from Netorare to Netori to Polyarmory/Open Relationships. Poly/Open and Netori are absolutely fine to me, hell seeing a dominate MC take a really good/interesting LI from an "unworthy" partner and treating them better is hot as fuck. But having the MC get cucked is such a turn off for me, more power to you if cuckoldry does it for you but it just doesn't for me. I worry that accepting the NTR switch will force hard-coded netorare/cuckoldry situations to happen. Maybe adding a "walkthrough" for the NTR situations that tells you if a choice leads to the netorare, netori, sharing, or no NTR outcome.

My point is that I'm not sure if the NTR that CoffeeCurse is planning will be Netorare, Netori or just poly/sharing. Hell it could be a mix of all 3 at the same time. NTR has like 3 distinct different versions of itself.

The reason this is an issue is because NTR's definiton is one that is steeped in semantics. It's very different from each person's perspective. It's why it's so fucking annoying to define.

The simplest way I can describe this game's (and coincidentally my understanding of) NTR is such:

Soft NTR:

Experiences, where a sexual partner of the MC has sex with another dominant character, with the consent from the MC. These include, but are not limited to: sharing, threesomes, consensual cucking, etc. These experiences are based on a mutual desire between everyone involved, and is generally "agreed" upon and known by every party involved.

Hard NTR:

Experiences, where a sexual partner of the MC has sex with another dominant character, WITHOUT consent from the MC. Be it that they can't control the situation, or if they are unaware of it happening. These include, but are not limited to: cheating, forced cucking, love stealing, etc. These experiences are based on selfish desires and go against the will of the MC.

And I've said it a million times, that every thing is optional. NOTHING IS HARDCODED!

 

[CoffeeCurse]

The Laura and Sabrina scene inspired two more scenes in me with them kind of being a continuation of that scene, I'm going to post the second scene tomorrow. I wanted to uses more of the fantasy element, you mentioned possession and suggestive/mind control so I incorporated those. Hope you like it.

Spoiler

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FUCKING S-Tier BlueCrossX I ABSOLUTEY LOVE READING THESE AND GETTING INSPIRATION FROM THEM!!!!! SSDAHDJEHFESFESFSAE!!! SO GOOD!

 

[CoffeeCurse]

Here's the second scene, it's the longest one yet and after writing this I won't be writing long ones no more. I wanted to also incorporate that dynamic I mention before of Laura going after Kate's family but Laura making it known with time.

Spoiler

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OOOOOOHHH LAWD THEY KEEP CRAFTING!!! YASSSSSS!!!!! Sabrina is fast turning into a delicious SUB!!!! LOVE! This!

 

[TheLecher]

Mandatory piercings/tattoo additions that characters will get over time, will likely be connected to the story, side quests, or part of supporter decisions. They won't be too drastic!

Honestly, even though I just commented that optional body modifications for characters aren't feasible, due to the increase in workload, I do think that there is one possible exception - that being changes to a single character (one, and only one) which only take place late in the game.

To give a concrete example of what I mean, let's say that there's a path in the game in which the MC were to become quite submissive and were to be heavily dominated by some other character, and this character compelled the MC to undergo some body modification (piercing, tattoo, what-have-you), to indicate ownership of the MC. If this change were to take place in the third-to-last or second-to-last update of the game, it would double the number of renders needed for the MC in the last two or three updates, which would not be insignificant, but would also probably not be enough of a problem to seriously hamper development.

Now, I'm not advocating for any optional modifications for any character. I'm simply furnishing an example to show that, if there is only one optional modification on only one character, and that modification is pushed back toward the end of the game's development, it becomes manageable. What becomes completely unmanageable is multiple optional modifications, and/or optional modifications which take place in the early-to-mid game. But even a single, late game optional modification is not needed, so the only reason to include it would be if the developer or a significant percentage of supporters desired it.

 

[CoffeeCurse]

Here's a question(?) that's actually been on my mind for a bit. Don't know if it is too much of a story spoiler, but it would help in my scenario imagining with Kate and Sabrina.
Are they the typical NTR "villains" in that they are out to get girls for a fuck but have no emotional attachments? Or do they have more nuance?
I can't quite come to a conclusion based on everything we've discussed. Because Kate is a rival, but not an enemy. So I'm assuming she's not out to "destroy" Laura or her family. But her presentation overall, so far, does have this typical hentai NTR villain feel. XD
And when we discussed Amelia before, it was around Kate's desire to have her back. Is that purely as a hunter after the prey, or does she have some deeper attachment to Amelia as well?

I won't be able to answer that question sadly... you'll just have to play the game when the time comes to find out! There will be a definite answer to this, but I can't give it to you as it would require me to spoiler too much information on future storylines. You'll just have to let your imagination run wild in the meantime!

So wait, are we actually writing suggestions to use in the game or just examples and/or fanfics?
I've been doing the latter all this time.
Heck, I could write the whole Amelia/Kate saga if you want.
(I'm mostly joking, of course.)

I think it's just a vibrant and fun bit of fan fiction and scene ideas that we can all discuss and enjoy. I will note as I said to Blue, that I 100% read all of them and take notes on them and learn from each of them. As such, I'll likely incorporate some of it into the game's scenes someday. I'll even make mention of it in the future, probably in the Discord, if a scene was inspired by someone.

Write away! It's fun to read and discuss ideas!!!

I got carried away with my ideas but I do think that Coffee encourages suggestions/scenes as a way to inspired some scenes for the game or take details from the suggestions. I would definitely like to see what ideas you have in mind.

Bullseye!!! Have no fears, you're not getting carried away, you are just having fun and letting the SMUT FLOW THROUGH YOU!!!! These scenes are very helpful for me to learn different ideas from people and helps me get inspired for stuff in the future! I 10000% encourage it! It's awesome!!!

 

[CoffeeCurse]

I'll need to know the answer to my question about how Kate is first.
Depending on if she has nuance and can have even a little feeling for those she pursues or if she is a straight up hunter going after prey can have a massive impact on how story and scenes go.

Kate has the potential to be one of the most interesting and multi-layered characters. And I think that is one of my big draws towards her specifically.
She and Amelia dated before, but, say, Amelia broke it off.
Amelia is looking for more on the emotional level, but at the time they dated, Kate couldn't provide it because she was more of a pure dominant, hunter type.
Maybe Kate doesn't know specifically why she is into Amelia more than others, she just knows she is and wants her.
Doesn't mean she can't still have her personality, but she just has a little bit of a different attitude with Amelia to satisfy Amelia's needs... and get her to want to be impaled on Kate's giga-dong and bred repeatedly.
And then it also affects the perspective of Laura as well. Since she knows Kate,. and could possibly seethe difference between her fooling around with others and her outlook on Amelia. Thus, it creates a different inner conflict for Laura on this specific route.

There is a lot that can be done, but I don't go neck deep into it until we know what the plans are, or if the input is wanted, since my first position is to see what Coffee wants to do and hype over it..

Like I said, you'll just have to use your imagination for the time being.

But you are striking the right cord as to the depth of why Kate desires Amelia so much... it goes fathoms deeper than just someone wanting to fuck someone else. It will be very complex and she tries to understand the inner meaning behind her deepest desires... and consequently the deepest parts of Amelia... #BreedingSessionsRequired

 

[junkgkj]

Like I said, you'll just have to use your imagination for the time being.

But you are striking the right cord as to the depth of why Kate desires Amelia so much... it goes fathoms deeper than just someone wanting to fuck someone else. It will be very complex and she tries to understand the inner meaning behind her deepest desires... and consequently the deepest parts of Amelia... #BreedingSessionsRequired

I won't be able to answer that question sadly... you'll just have to play the game when the time comes to find out! There will be a definite answer to this, but I can't give it to you as it would require me to spoiler too much information on future storylines. You'll just have to let your imagination run wild in the meantime!

Can't wait to see how it pans out! And I'm going to be aching over it for a while, it seems.
Kate sounds like she is going to be one of the more interesting and complex characters. I like it when rival characters aren't one dimensional.
As long as she and Amelia have many breeding sessions, that's what matters the most! #BreedingSessionsRequired

You're on the money with this.

Neat. Don't have to worry about the ladies in my trinity becoming tattoo'd and pierced up then?

 

[junkgkj]

The reason this is an issue is because NTR's definiton is one that is steeped in semantics. It's very different from each person's perspective. It's why it's so fucking annoying to define.

The simplest way I can describe this game's (and coincidentally my understanding of) NTR is such:

Soft NTR:

Experiences, where a sexual partner of the MC has sex with another dominant character, with the consent from the MC. These include, but are not limited to: sharing, threesomes, consensual cucking, etc. These experiences are based on a mutual desire between everyone involved, and is generally "agreed" upon and known by every party involved.

Hard NTR:

Experiences, where a sexual partner of the MC has sex with another dominant character, WITHOUT consent from the MC. Be it that they can't control the situation, or if they are unaware of it happening. These include, but are not limited to: cheating, forced cucking, love stealing, etc. These experiences are based on selfish desires and go against the will of the MC.

And I've said it a million times, that every thing is optional. NOTHING IS HARDCODED!

Consensual cucking is always fun in a futa scenario.
It's quite alluring for an LI to want to try a much bigger and more aggressive futa while the MC gets jollies seeing it happen.
There are so many degrees and different ways within the NTR/sharing/cuckqueaning space that are a lot of fun. It'd be a challenge to try to fit them all, and may not be possible unless you really expand the game out.

 

[MadDogBarrett]

Hey no rush and just genuinely curious. Do you have an updated ETA on when you are looking to release? Also, on another note you mentioned discord! Do you have one or are you waiting till the actual release tp open one up? Sorry lots of questions I know! I just wanted to comment on the tattoos and piercings going across multiple paths. And just wanted to say you could still do tattoos and piercings for like ownership. They just need to be a little generic. Like when Laura finally gets her "Step-family" all worshipping her cock you could give them all collars. A special piercing. Or even a tattoo that say owned property. That way if in a NTR route you can just use the same shot as long as Laura isn't in it. Just something to think about.

Because in all honesty, something about the twins with a womb tattoo that say owned is really hott. Or Brooke and Nicole with Slave word collars. Or all the NTR sisters with chastity type piercings is that last one is probably end game stuff though!

 

[junkgkj]

I'm down for collars for some characters.