VN Ren'Py Project Myriam - Life and Explorations [Ch. 5.02+p] [Zorlun]

[Zorlun]

I say this as someone who hates "sex with homeless/etc." scenes in corruption games, and I certainly don't want to see a sex scene with Bobo even though I know it's going to be a possibility, but you're not reading your own writing correctly. She callously abandons him. You're thinking that we can get all the way to the "take more time" choice before losing the scene with William, but once we know it exists our playing interest is to abandon Bobo much earlier. To completely dismiss Bobo and make him the cops' problem. That's callous, vs. the version of Myriam that actually wants to help him. You're working from the assumption that we're going to push the Bobo scene as far as we can and then go have sex with William. But how could we possibly know that that's a possibility? If I've looked at the mod's gallery, and prefer a scene with William to a non-scene with Bobo, I'm going to bail on Bobo as soon as possible so I can get William. That's not kind, and it requires me to make Myriam an uncaring asshole so that she can fuck her young, huge-dicked neighbor. I don't see any narrative setup-reward in that, I just see arbitrary bifurcation without narrative justification.

I don't know if you're trolling at that point... It seems we just don't understand each other, I'm sorry you don't see my point, so I'm just going to stop arguing here, you don't like the way I did that scene, well, too bad, sorry, but it won't change.

I hope you will enjoy the rest of the game, but I'm done justifying myself on that subject.

Hey Zorlan i am doing a playthrough of both incest and beastiality and want to do all the options with the higher score needs but i don't want anthony in the picture is there a way i can get enough points to do that without anthony being around. help please my myriam doesn't put up with being being dominated or abused by Anthony. please help

Yes you can have all the fun without having to stay with Anthony (though having the cum stat high without the shower scene from the motel and the abuse of Anthony at the motel can be hard, but pass that, you can kick him out without much concern).

 

[dian091]

Perhaps you end up with sex with Bobo either way. Either as his friend sooner than later, OR, if you bail on him he ends up in police custody and at some point, you know Myriam is going to have her two boys in blue (or more) maybe she ends up in a jail cell that she shares with Bobo and since she bailed on him, it's rougher sex than had she been his friend in the alley.

 

[Xill]

"Dude," that's not gameplay. That's save-spamming. As someone who likes to see all the content I do it a lot, but it's actually an indicator of a poorly designed game. In this case, it's paired with a well-designed mod, so I can see all the scenes. A properly designed game would give me hints about what I was missing, give me realistic scenes in which (say) tending to Bobo was making me miss a planned rendezvous (platonic or otherwise) with William, etc., and tell me that. Games with gallery mods show me what I've missed, and of course I use them. But a well-designed game has already told me that I'm missing things.

This is so wrong. Have you never played Fallout? Elder Scrolls? CRPG games like Divinity Original Sin 2? Most of the time when you do things a certain way it doesn't tell you what you missed if you did it another way. That's for you to find out on your next playthrough or if you reload a save to see what happens. That doesn't make it a bad design. Is Mass Effect a badly designed game? Is Dragon Age?

You're complaining because you're missing out and you want to know what you could've gotten if you chose a different path. That's a YOU problem. Because it seems like you'd enjoy kinetic novels/linear games a lot more.

It's not bad design, it's a feature.

 

[hodgy15]

Thank you Zorlan appreciate it and love the game awesome job look forward to the next update.

and to the people giving Zorland a hard time about this and that most the scenes are optional if you don't like domination or abuse like i don't find a walkaround and if you can't find one then ask others if there is a walkaround possible.

 

[Segnbora]

Have you never played Fallout? Elder Scrolls? CRPG games like Divinity Original Sin 2? That doesn't make it a bad design. Is Mass Effect a badly designed game? Is Dragon Age?

I haven't played any of those. My history of gaming comes from an earlier time, in which it was standard that if you were missing something important, there were hints that you were missing something. If that's changed, then okay. But I'd still call it bad game design, no matter how much money or programming indentured servitude talent went into the game. Consequential choices — branch severing choices — shouldn't be opaque. That's the developers doing a shit-ton of work and then begging the player to not even notice what they've missed.

It's not bad design, it's a feature.

A legitimate question: why is it a feature? Revisiting every single choice and all possible branches, for (in the games you're referencing, not this one) roughly a thousand hours, to see if something changes? That, to you, is enjoyable and rewarding? Is that something you consider fun?

 

[clowns234]

I haven't played any of those. My history of gaming comes from an earlier time, in which it was standard that if you were missing something important, there were hints that you were missing something. If that's changed, then okay. But I'd still call it bad game design, no matter how much money or programming indentured servitude talent went into the game. Consequential choices — branch severing choices — shouldn't be opaque. That's the developers doing a shit-ton of work and then begging the player to not even notice what they've missed.


A legitimate question: why is it a feature? Revisiting every single choice and all possible branches, for (in the games you're referencing, not this one) roughly a thousand hours, to see if something changes? That, to you, is enjoyable and rewarding? Is that something you consider fun?

Reminds me of an MMO I used to play. Some players got upset because they didn't have the best gear available. It didn't matter to them that that those with the better gear had put in more effort. They felt that simply playing the game gave them the right to have all the best gear.
Hitting a dead end where you can go no further because you missed a small detail is bad design. Missing a scene here or there doesn't stop you from playing this game.

 

[Segnbora]

They felt that simply playing the game gave them the right to have all the best gear.

I don't want the best gear with no effort. I don't want every scene with no effort. I want to know that I'm missing stuff, and I'd prefer that the game — rather than the dev or other players — tell me that I am, so I can put in the work to change my outcomes. That's all.

 

[Xill]

A legitimate question: why is it a feature? Revisiting every single choice and all possible branches, for (in the games you're referencing, not this one) roughly a thousand hours, to see if something changes? That, to you, is enjoyable and rewarding? Is that something you consider fun?

Yes, that's exactly why. Sure, I enjoy linear games too, if I want to experience a good story being told to me, like with Final Fantasy or Metal Gear.

But I also really enjoy games where I can choose my own path, like the ones I mentioned, which allow you to be good or bad, which allow for replayability. It's not just me either, tons of people enjoy such games, which is why it's a good thing CRPG games are making a comeback (Divinity, Baldur's Gate, Pillars of Eternity, Pathfinder).

 

[Segnbora]

But I also really enjoy games where I can choose my own path, like the ones I mentioned, which allow you to be good or bad, which allow for replayability. It's not just me either, tons of people enjoy such games, which is why it's a good thing CRPG games are making a comeback (Divinity, Baldur's Gate, Pillars of Eternity, Pathfinder).

I enjoy replayability as well, but Baldur's Gate (and II) regularly tells you, usually via dialogue, that you're making a game-changing choice. You're telling me that you want to go back and revisit every single choice you make, hunting for hidden content, rather than simply taking narratively obvious alternative paths that lead you to that content.

If that's so, I admit that we have very different definitions of enjoyable.

 

[ouch2020]

assumption that we're going to push the Bobo scene as far as we can and then go have sex with William. But how could we possibly know that that's a possibility? If I've looked at the mod's gallery, and prefer a scene with William to a non-scene with Bobo, I'm going to bail on Bobo as soon as possible so I can get William. That's not kind, and it requires me to make Myriam an uncaring asshole so that she can fuck her young, huge-dicked neighbor. I don't see any narrative setup-reward in that, I just see arbitrary bifurcation without narrative justification.

Hi, don't want to get in the polemics that seems to be starting to get flaming, but notice that you don't need to abandon him or just call the cops to get to William's scene.
In one gameplay, I intervened, fought off the guys, even helped him, and still got the William part. What really makes the difference is if you help him only with one thing, or with both, when you are given the choice. And in one of the plays I honestly found not so strange that she helps him only for one thing, since she has to go back home and is in a certainly psychological sitaution. That is not being an "uncaring asshole", since she went when there was the noise, she went in to see what was happening despite knowing there were problems, than she still helped Bobo after.
When someone asks you for money to buy food, you can and buy the food with them, or you can just give them the money, but if it is true that the first thing is even nicer, doing the second does not make you an "uncaring asshole".
Plus, honestly, many, if not most, people would not care even about going to check the noise, and seeing trouble, would not call the police or even less intervene, especially, for this second option (intervening), if you consider that depending how you played/see her, at that point she may have already the profile of someone who would not defend herself.
So, definitively if you make her do that, she is already very far from being an "uncaring asshole"

 

[Segnbora]

Hi, don't want to get in the polemics that seems to be starting to get flaming, but notice that you don't need to abandon him or just call the cops to get to William's scene.
In one gameplay, I intervened, fought off the guys, even helped him, and still got the William part. What really makes the difference is if you help him only with one thing, or with both, when you are given the choice. And in one of the plays I honestly found not so strange that she helps him only for one thing, since she has to go back home and is in a certainly psychological sitaution. That is not being an "uncaring asshole", since she went when there was the noise, she went in to see what was happening despite knowing there were problems, than she still helped Bobo after.
When someone asks you for money to buy food, you can and buy the food with them, or you can just give them the money, but if it is true that the first thing is even nicer, doing the second does not make you an "uncaring asshole".
Plus, honestly, many, if not most, people would not care even about going to check the noise, and seeing trouble, would not call the police or even less intervene, especially, for this second option (intervening), if you consider that depending how you played/see her, at that point she may have already the profile of someone who would not defend herself.
So, definitively if you make her do that, she is already very far from being an "uncaring asshole"

No, you're right; I didn't, at first, realize I could push the scene until the "spend more time" (or whatever) choice. So it's very true that you can be nice to Bobo and still get William. But, again, my objection isn't to the branching, which I fully support. It's to the opacity of the choice. Once I became aware that it existed, I bailed on Bobo ASAP (because, again, I don't enjoy this sort of content in corruption games), but if I'd known I could be relatively kind and still get William, I would have. So Myriam acted like an asshole when she didn't have to, but in my defense: how was I supposed to know she didn't have to without looking at the code? Without doing so, it's an either/or choice.

 

[DIRTY Filthy RAT]

I enjoy replayability as well, but Baldur's Gate (and II) regularly tells you, usually via dialogue, that you're making a game-changing choice. You're telling me that you want to go back and revisit every single choice you make, hunting for hidden content, rather than simply taking narratively obvious alternative paths that lead you to that content.

If that's so, I admit that we have very different definitions of enjoyable.

OMG. For the last time We can say this till were blue in the face, the William scene has to do with TIMING, if you take too long with Bobo you will miss William coming home. Now do you get it?

 

[Segnbora]

OMG. For the last time We can say this till were blue in the face, the William scene has to do with TIMING, if you take too long with Bobo you will miss William coming home. Now do you get it?

I never didn't get that. But it's obvious you've never understood what I'm saying. What's my clue that the William scene is waiting?

 

[DIRTY Filthy RAT]

I never didn't get that. But it's obvious you've never understood what I'm saying. What's my clue that the William scene is waiting?

I don’t always need a clue, it’s called replayability, he gives u many choices and paths to choose. That’s why there are so many save slots, so use them. Go back and pick other choices so you’ll see all scenes

 

[Segnbora]

But why is that fun? Saving at every choice and then going back to see if there's something else is work, not gaming. Knowing that there's something I missed, and can go back to later for a different result, is replayability and enjoyable. Slowly working through a million saves (or the script) looking for hidden content isn't playing a game at all. For example, I just played The Office, and at every point I knew I was making a choice between a corruption scene and a loyalty scene. Here, I had no idea the William scene even existed until I used the gallery mod.

 

[Zorlun]

But why is that fun? Saving at every choice and then going back to see if there's something else is work, not gaming. Knowing that there's something I missed, and can go back to later for a different result, is replayability and enjoyable. Slowly working through a million saves (or the script) looking for hidden content isn't playing a game at all. For example, I just played The Office, and at every point I knew I was making a choice between a corruption scene and a loyalty scene. Here, I had no idea the William scene even existed until I used the gallery mod.

Just because!!! For some people it's a pleasure to search for secrets and hidden things. Now if you don't find that fun, well, you don't, so why keep talking about it.

Now I consider the matter closed, if you keep posting about it I'll report it as trolling! I'm sorry but it's getting too far. The discussion is staying polite, but 3 pages on the matters and still at the same point is too much.

 

[Power Broker]

This is so wrong. Have you never played Fallout? Elder Scrolls? CRPG games like Divinity Original Sin 2? Most of the time when you do things a certain way it doesn't tell you what you missed if you did it another way.

No, he's quite right. In those games it's usually clear when you are about to make an important choice, and it's clear that if you choose A (save the Queen) you get another story than choosing B (save the pawn). You don't know what you are missing, but you know that you are missing something and you can save, go back and try the other way if you want to know.

Your arguments are more about butterfly effects: the player has at one point the choice between eating the sandwich and not eating it, and one leads to the outbreak of ww 3 and the other to a zombie apocalypse - and you say something like "ugh dude, don't bitch around you didn't know this leads there, just try the other choice next time". Segnbora just wants a hint like "Yeah if you help Bobo you are losing too much time and will be home much later than planned" vs. "Don't help him and be back when your neighbour comes home too"

This is especially important since in games like these choices between "doing something" and "not doing it" usually mean "play a scene" or "skip the scene". So in my case I was initially also convinced the choices around Bobo mean something like "I want hobo-content, yeah" vs. "Na thx bro, I'm fine without" and not helping him just skips the hobo content. And I don't want to skip content since the content in this game is quite good.
Also, I hoped that Myriam would get raped by the bastards who kicked the poor hobo, but alas... maybe next time

 

[DirtyMario]

So in my case I was initially also convinced the choices around Bobo mean something like "I want hobo-content, yeah" vs. "Na thx bro, I'm fine without" and not helping him just skips the hobo content. And I don't want to skip content since the content in this game is quite good.

Same. I was kinda let down when nothing happened after that. But I guess that will get rectified in the future.
Also whoever hasn't done so yet should really try playing some of the games that Xill mentioned. Some real gems in there.
I personally don't mind reloading and backtracking and enjoy hidden scenes. I actually would love to have even more of these. Exploration and finding hidden places and easter eggs is my favourite part of RPGs though so I'm sure not everyone agrees there. But to be fair no matter what your opinion is, it's still a Zorlun game and ultimately he decides how he wants to structure it, which I respect so there's no need for endless discussions on this topic.

 

[Onetogo]

Not really but I don't think it urgently needs a walkthrough either.
Just save before choices that seem major because they probably are.
Also don't forget that you can roll back several slides with the mouse wheel.
For everything else there are some mods on page 99 of this thread.

Well really anybody do me a favor by checking if you have a Aiden in the changing room save and check how many cum kink trait points you have so I can compare it to what I got then I will know my mistake precedes that point or is after it. Thank you in advance.

 

[DirtyMario]

Well really anybody do me a favor by checking if you have a Aiden in the changing room save and check how many cum kink trait points you have so I can compare it to what I got then I will know my mistake precedes that point or is after it. Thank you in advance.

I don't think I have a save around from that scene, but I can tell you that I didn't have enough points for Aiden to cum on her face in the changing room and I carried that deficit with me until the scene with the good boi cumming in her mouth which I was missing exactly 2 points for.
I am not sure but I assume that you positively need to let Anthony do what the hell he wants to from the start of the game to get enough points for these, which I didn't want to do because he's a douchenozzle and I didn't want to give him a second of my time if I could help it.