VN Ren'Py Project Myriam - Life and Explorations [Ch. 5.09+p] [Zorlun]

[Zara Scarlet]

Well, I never said that consent eliminates statutory rape, because I know it doesn't, that's why it is "statutory rape", and not just "rape".

The source I found said California does not have statutory rape, but honestly, I did not go deeply on it, if you say it does have it, I can even believe you.
Just be careful that saying if someone older has sex with someone younger is a fellony (as even my sources said and was in my post), it is not the same as having statutory rape.

Statutory rape means that will automatically apply the rape law with the same penalties and indications as "normal" rape, not that .

Again, this is starting to become another long discussion, like the polemics about "incest was there originally or not", "Zorlun should make a campaign againt Patreon" etc.

I realise I contributed myself to making it long, my mistake, I am going to sign off from this whole discussion, although I admit one of my defects is that I am at times too easily dragged in this type of discussions

Just enjoy the game, in the end Zorlun never meant for the game to be a precise representation of reality, though I believe he did a good job in some aspects of the psychological side.

You're right it probably wouldn't be charged as a felony. That would require either a previous offence, or Marc claiming that it had happened against his will. It would almost certainly be charged as a misdemeanor, which probably would have meant a fine at most. But that wouldn't help Myriam, because her legal guardianship of Marc would be overturned, and he'd be taken into care by the authorities, till he turned 18.

This is all very hypothetical, because nobody is ever going to find out about Myriam and Marc, so none of this will ever happen anyway. And I fully understand this is a fantasy and liberties with reality are an essential part of it. After all, Myriam ( a relatively ordinary housewife) suddenly transforming into the ultimate nympho slut in a matter of weeks, is hardly a true reflection of reality. So yeah some things are real and quite a lot of stuff is made to fit the rather fantastic plot

 

[Joshy92]

I loved that scene where Myriam Had sex with Marc's friend and she only let him watch lol

 

[Zara Scarlet]

Surely you know and have visited the Spankbang site. There's quite a bit of that material there... erm... A friend told me about it.

No, I've never visited that site. I'm not that interested in young women being obsessed with older guys. I don't have anything against it, and I'm quite happy for content like that to be included in this and other similar games. But it's definitely not a big interest for me. I was just responding to a question regarding the 'kinks' of another commenter, who I know for a fact is very interested in this type of content, and would like more of it in this game.

 

[Goodthrust]

it deals with trivial matters, it is a sex game, it is not a legal simulator. The characters are virtual, wake up people.

Amen !

 

[Zara Scarlet]

it deals with trivial matters, it is a sex game, it is not a legal simulator. The characters are virtual, wake up people.

This is a discussion thread. And that inevitably means that people will have discussions, which occasionally end up discussing stuff that not a lot of people are likely to be interested in. Feel free to ignore it.

Also I just hate it, when people suggest that this and other games are 'trivial' and just 'a sex game', which means they're in some way unworthy of people taking the time, to discuss aspects of the plot in detail. The characters may be virtual, but they also give a lot of people, a lot of pleasure. And in my book that makes them very worthy of discussion.

 

[ouch2020]

I loved that scene where Myriam Had sex with Marc's friend and she only let him watch lol

That means you are on the Myriam DOM "path", in the other paths, the scene was different.

 

[mimiko857]

lets gooo myriam!!

 

[Maveric]

Does anyone have any compress size?

 

[jackkane]

does the walkthrough mod work with the incest patch?

 

[GokutheG]

does the walkthrough mod work with the incest patch?

No because they change the same files.

 

[Deleted member 207916]

Does anyone have any compress size?

Here it is

 

[Zara Scarlet]

I'm almost certain, that in the whole world, unawareness, ignorace, don't exime you from the Punishment, or sentece.
anyway for me it is irrelevant and kinda boring to start a discussion about laws

I was being facetious, when I made that particular comment. I'm fairly certain Myriam would be aware that different states have different rules, and wouldn't assume California would be the same as Texas.

 

[Zara Scarlet]

But actually, if it was not her son, even if he was under 18, she would have no claim for custody, because they are not married (unless using the incest patch, and the original storyline as Zorlun had first made it).

That's not correct. To become a legal guardian, it's not necessary to have been married to one of the child's parents, or to have been in any kind of relationship for that matter. Any adult can become a legal guardian. And having been in a relationship with Anthony, and effectively acting as Marc's mother, Myriam has a pretty solid case for becoming his legal guardian.

Zorlun said he decided later to make Marc 18, which would mean indeed no custody in California (safe maybe special situations, but that are not applicable to Marc)

If this was the case, Myriam wouldn't need to apply for custody at all. Because Marc would be old enough to make his own decision, about where he wanted to live. If you get legal guardianship of somebody, it expires on their 18th birthday. At that point Anthony would not be able to stop Marc living with Myriam. So why would she have to go to court at all? But we know she did go to court for custody, therefore Marc has to be under 18.

But we know that the whole sequence related to custody etc. was a plot by Zorlun to have a way to get definetively (aside one eventual episode in future, depending from the player choices) rid of Anthony, he even admitted he did not think too much about representing exactly the legal aspects, so, IMO we should not spend too much energy on that.

If it was just a matter of getting rid of Anthony. All he needed to do, was have Marc turn 18. Because then he'd legally be an adult, and could live wherever he wanted to. Instead of a long winded scene, it could have been achieved with one render and a few sentences of dialogue. But if you want to have a dramatic custody battle, followed by Anthony trying to kill Myriam, then I'm afraid you can't get around Marc being under 18

 

[john984]

No new preview scene?

 

[ouch2020]

That's not correct. To become a legal guardian, it's not necessary to have been married to one of the child's parents, or to have been in any kind of relationship for that matter. Any adult can become a legal guardian. And having been in a relationship with Anthony, and effectively acting as Marc's mother, Myriam has a pretty solid case for becoming his legal guardian.

Hmm, maybe I did not express myself clearly enough, because I did not say, or did not intend to say, that to become legal guardian you must have been married.
Parental rights and legal guardian are different concepts (though by defaul, parental rights include being legal guardian) in any jurisdiction I know enough, and courts declare someone legal guardian of someone else all the time, even if only on temporary base.
Even temporary foster parents also are legal guardians, but are not relatives of the person (though that can also happen).

I don't know about you, but I have good reason to know about that stuff , even if I do not cover in details all the jurisdictions in the World, or even just in the "Western World".

I was referring to something else.

Again, it depends on the jurisdiction, and in USA, you even have counties, with judges that in some case make basically their law :-D.
But I was talking about an hypothetical situation in which there is a any kind of social services involved in the decision of the judge, to assess the family (or can be said, ex-family) situation, as ethically (but that does not mean legally), should be, unless the judge has the necessary information, knowledge and experience (and in general, they don't, social services should spend the time and energy needed and have it, judges are not required to).
I can tell you, that exactly due to scenes like the one between Anthony and Myriam in court, even if I agree that Anthony is the first that goes aggressive and physical in that situation and is an abusive husband, social service should suggest that Marc should be place temporarily on a third party, to avoid him feeling in the middle of the fight every day and torn apart etc.

But we are again talking about complex realities, which of course in real life have to, and should be, analysed on a case by case basis, while debating about a game.
"Case by case", because is typical of psychology students or fresh graduates to use a checklist approach (in reality, the DSM was itself born as a checklist approach, specifically for the military), but a serious and experienced professional should be more careful and open.
I always say Zorlun had made a good work on the psychological side of some characters, but it is a game, he never pretended to represent 100% reality and go in all the details of the psyche of the characters, the whole situation with Anthony was a device for the story progression.

About your reference to turning 18, the problem is that at the start, there was some ambiguity on age, that Zorlun decided in the end to sort out by explicitly saying both Katherine and him are already 18 at the start of the game.

A number of incongruences in the game are in reality born by the compromises and decisions Zorlun had to make to keep the show going, and show must go on


Though I can see I let again myself being pulled in on this discussion , my mistake, I did say one of my defects has become that it is too easy to do it,, didn't I ? :-D :-D

 

[DIRTY FILTHY Animal]

Hmm, maybe I did not express myself clearly enough, because I did not say, or did not intend to say, that to become legal guardian you must have been married.
Parental rights and legal guardian are different concepts (though by defaul, parental rights include being legal guardian) in any jurisdiction I know enough, and courts declare someone legal guardian of someone else all the time, even if only on temporary base.
Even temporary foster parents also are legal guardians, but are not relatives of the person (though that can also happen).

I don't know about you, but I have good reason to know about that stuff , even if I do not cover in details all the jurisdictions in the World, or even just in the "Western World".

I was referring to something else.

Again, it depends on the jurisdiction, and in USA, you even have counties, with judges that in some case make basically their law :-D.
But I was talking about an hypothetical situation in which there is a any kind of social services involved in the decision of the judge, to assess the family (or can be said, ex-family) situation, as ethically (but that does not mean legally), should be, unless the judge has the necessary information, knowledge and experience (and in general, they don't, social services should spend the time and energy needed and have it, judges are not required to).
I can tell you, that exactly due to scenes like the one between Anthony and Myriam in court, even if I agree that Anthony is the first that goes aggressive and physical in that situation and is an abusive husband, social service should suggest that Marc should be place temporarily on a third party, to avoid him feeling in the middle of the fight every day and torn apart etc.

But we are again talking about complex realities, which of course in real life have to, and should be, analysed on a case by case basis, while debating about a game.
"Case by case", because is typical of psychology students or fresh graduates to use a checklist approach (in reality, the DSM was itself born as a checklist approach, specifically for the military), but a serious and experienced professional should be more careful and open.
I always say Zorlun had made a good work on the psychological side of some characters, but it is a game, he never pretended to represent 100% reality and go in all the details of the psyche of the characters, the whole situation with Anthony was a device for the story progression.

About your reference to turning 18, the problem is that at the start, there was some ambiguity on age, that Zorlun decided in the end to sort out by explicitly saying both Katherine and him are already 18 at the start of the game.

A number of incongruences in the game are in reality born by the compromises and decisions Zorlun had to make to keep the show going, and show must go on


Though I can see I let again myself being pulled in on this discussion , my mistake, I did say one of my defects has become that it is too easy to do it,, didn't I ? :-D :-D

Well I’m sure Mark wouldn’t mind staying with Aunt Eve then, might be awkward when she’s bringing some stud home and mark has to hear her screams and moans or maybe she lets him go for a ride too,

what would Myriam say if she found out Eve and Mark were screwing?

 

[Zara Scarlet]

About your reference to turning 18, the problem is that at the start, there was some ambiguity on age, that Zorlun decided in the end to sort out by explicitly saying both Katherine and him are already 18 at the start of the game.

The problem I have with this, is that the storyline as it stands, just doesn't support this. If Marc is 18, then there is no need for a custody battle between Myriam and Anthony, because in California Marc is judged to be an adult already, and able to make his own decisions. Simply put, there wouldn't be a court case to determine something, that was already decided by Marc being 18. There are only 3 states in the USA where the age of majority is over 18 ( Alabama, Mississippi and Nebraska), none of which could be where the game is set. So unless you're prepared to totally ignore this part of US law, and set the game in some fantasy dimension, saying that Marc is over 17 doesn't make any sense, unless you remove the custody battle from the game.

Zorlun can say that Marc is over 17, and I fully understand why he wants to do that ( because so many US states set the age of consent at 18, and he's trying not run foul of Patreon rules). But unfortunately, the game as it stands, suggests that Marc is definitely under 18.

 

[xapican]

The problem I have with this, is that the storyline as it stands, just doesn't support this. If Marc is 18, then there is no need for a custody battle between Myriam and Anthony, because in California Marc is judged to be an adult already, and able to make his own decisions. Simply put, there wouldn't be a court case to determine something, that was already decided by Marc being 18. There are only 3 states in the USA where the age of majority is over 18 ( Alabama, Mississippi and Nebraska), none of which could be where the game is set. So unless you're prepared to totally ignore this part of US law, and set the game in some fantasy dimension, saying that Marc is over 17 doesn't make any sense, unless you remove the custody battle from the game.

Zorlun can say that Marc is over 17, and I fully understand why he wants to do that ( because so many US states set the age of consent at 18, and he's trying not run foul of Patreon rules). But unfortunately, the game as it stands, suggests that Marc is definitely under 18.

Of course, I'm still trying to put my mind around what is so important with Marc's age, I personally don't like him, he is just an Abusive ASS like his father, and the whole Custody Battle story is over right now,

 

[Zara Scarlet]

Again, it depends on the jurisdiction, and in USA, you even have counties, with judges that in some case make basically their law :-D.
But I was talking about an hypothetical situation in which there is a any kind of social services involved in the decision of the judge, to assess the family (or can be said, ex-family) situation, as ethically (but that does not mean legally), should be, unless the judge has the necessary information, knowledge and experience (and in general, they don't, social services should spend the time and energy needed and have it, judges are not required to).
I can tell you, that exactly due to scenes like the one between Anthony and Myriam in court, even if I agree that Anthony is the first that goes aggressive and physical in that situation and is an abusive husband, social service should suggest that Marc should be place temporarily on a third party, to avoid him feeling in the middle of the fight every day and torn apart etc.

If Mark is 18, then none of these things apply ( unless he lives in Alabama, Mississippi or Nebraska, where the age of majority is higher). Anywhere else in the US, and it would never go to court at all, because Marc would be considered an adult, and therefore he wouldn't need a guardian or a foster parent, because he'd be old enough to make all his own decisions.

That's why making him 18 doesn't make any sense at all, unless you alter large parts of the game.

 

[ouch2020]

Well I’m sure Mark wouldn’t mind staying with Aunt Eve then, might be awkward when she’s bringing some stud home and mark has to hear her screams and moans or maybe she lets him go for a ride too,

what would Myriam say if she found out Eve and Mark were screwing?

Good question the second one , unfortunately, I don't know if Zorlun had ever considered that hypothesis, but I am not sure Patreon would not consider that also as incest - I remember clearly they had told Zorlun no "step-something" was allowed, but I don't remember what else was forbidden by them.

For the first one, well, honestly, IMO, it would not be too strange that a relative tries to get in, if for whatever reason the parents were considered not fit, or anyway there is a temporary decision, but I will leave it at that.
I have not even looked at the last reply from Zara Scarlett, and I have no intention of doing so, because I realised that I started to get too easily sucked up in discussions where there is the risk I make one too many references to reality, the last one being the one with her.

More than once I had to delete parts from some messages, because I caught myself making refence to real situations, to make people understand why I said some things.
They were not situation I knew for professional reasons (but they also were not cases read about on Internet or news, I had more direct knowledge), there is "anonymity" on F95, there was nothing illegal on them, I was not making names, etc. (imagine all the disclaimers you can invent), but still, I would feel I violated my ethics if I used that type of information to try proving a point in an Internet forum.
In a way, the relative anonymity would make it worst for me (it's a matter of personal ethics), one thing is if and when I talk about some things with a person who knows who I am and I know who he/she is, another, something like this.