VN Ren'Py Project Myriam - Life and Explorations [Ch. End.01a+p] [Zorlun]

[Deleted member 3586865]

In general, till now Zorlun has always left the possibility for Myriam to start limiting Marc in some way. Even at the school, even while being submissive, Myriam has the possibility to intervene when he is bullying the other boy.
It may not be considered very harsh, it is certainly not violent as intervention, and she still let him get his way and even basically sharing her, but even after, the way she talks and thinks, is an indication that even in future she may decide to try to say "no" to something.

So, it seem it will be more or less the same. It is up to Myriam (and the player) how the interactions between the two of them will go.

This is where i struggle with a lot of games.
If a character is submissive he/she would act in certain ways. Meaning, there is usually no escape route.
Most games give the character thoughts of doubt but ultimately submit to demands, or so it seems. Character will think something like, not a big deal if do that. But usually can say no and dismiss demand.

Now i understand because of policies and laws, you are limited in what you can do as a developer. Though this makes the character sometimes unbelievable.
So if Myriam would be submissive, its not likely that she would be dominant in an instant. She could cry and yell but she would submit to the fact that she has no power.
In fact, she is (the way i played) an airhead. Believing things and accepting them. So therefor she would not rise above her role a submissive women. But it depends how you play and with what outcome in mind.
After all, she blow the priest for redemption. She let her being used by all of her husbands "friends". In this progress, she is broken beyond repair. My point is, that she would not dare to say no. Though again, to be in compliance with law and policies, she has the option to make it "free will".
Marc has so much power over her, that she willingly sucks him off in the car and goes to the church cum covered to make a photo.

In the end i am ok with how everything goes. Please see that as my opinion and nothing more.

 

[ouch2020]

I kind of guessed Patreon's attitude to incest. Patreon is based in California, and California's rules on incest are exactly the same as they are here in the UK. So yeah adoption makes it a non starter. It seems to me that making Myriam, Marc's legal guardian, is the logical solution to getting around this issue with Patreon. And as you say, a really easy way to switch back to having Myriam and Marc as Mother and Son via a patch

Well, it seems is a bit more complicated than that. It seem Patreon did not make it very clear, there are still today games where incest is inteqral part of the thing, and they have been for years happily on Patreon.
Honestly, one thing is incest being legal or not (first reaction, no, but it turns out, there is some USA state where brother and sister cannot marry, but can have sex without problems), another is whether its depiction in a work of fantasy, which is not made or distributed from Califormia is (Zorlun is not from USA), can bring legal chargest against Patreon.

Effectively, Patreon told Zorlun he could not distribute, or be involved with, any incest patch, even if it was distributed on another platform anywhere on the Internet, and never mentioned or distributed through Patreon.
It was already pointed out it is more a matter of internal rules and moral control, even by credit card issuers (although credit cards are widely used by people for porn, which has real people), than a real legal danger for Patreon from the State.

We had an exchange about UK law with someone.
It seemed the law (found the specific law about incest I think from '58, apparently the last), linked it to blood, so "step" or adopted would not apply for "incest", however it was already indicated that they anyway prosecute using formally different possibilities, though then people understand (or they say explicitly) that is due to the "step"/adoption.
The mention was that in case of "step", they will not prosecute if the stepson or daughterr has not lived with the stepmother/stepfather in the period of time before becoming 21 years of age (that also suggests that formally, they may be charging saying something like exploitation of the minor by taking advantage of the authority, or something similar, which woudl be usable in many countries).
I would not bet California and UK really have the same identical law about this, but if you say so, I guess I will just have to trust your word.

About the incest patch, there is alredy an incest patch, I make it , though unfortunately it does require manually checking and editing the code.

Zorlun cannot participate (for Patreon, and due to time) in its creation or distribution, he cannot even tell people they should install it (aside the fact not everybody wants the incest possibility), but that does not mean we cannot have exchanges, on this forum, about it, with him, including on the impact/usefulness of the "legal guardian" to help continuing that line.

 

[FridHerlich19]

Szenario is pretty boring and the head protag ugly. Sorry. Fake forced scenes as well. God.

 

[Zara Scarlet]

In general, till now Zorlun has always left the possibility for Myriam to start limiting Marc in some way. Even at the school, even while being submissive, Myriam has the possibility to intervene when he is bullying the other boy.
It may not be considered very harsh, it is certainly not violent as intervention, and she still let him get his way and even basically sharing her, but even after, the way she talks and thinks, is an indication that even in future she may decide to try to say "no" to something.

So, it seem it will be more or less the same. It is up to Myriam (and the player) how the interactions between the two of them will go.

Even on the submissive route, Myriam has her limits as she showed with Anthony, when she discovers what he did with Kimberly. Alright, eventually there'll be an option where she can totally ignore even her own common sense, and choose to believe Anthony's lies. But if we ignore that entirely ficticious scenario, which is only going to be there to satisfy the fantasies of those people who actually enjoyed Anthony's abuse of Myriam. Even a submissive Myriam, is going to oppose Marc when he threatens someone who she feels needs protection. Because that is her natural instinct, and is why she was able to stand up to Anthony, despite years of abuse from him. To protect Kimberly from suffering similar abuse.

If Marc goes too far, especially if it's with someone other than her, she'll definitely make sure he knows it. And considering that Lucy is teaching her how to fight, and Myriam is a pretty tall woman with an athletic physique. I reckon a future Myriam could be pretty menacing if she chose to be so.

Please Please let her have a future fight with Anthony, where she decks him. That would be so satisfying.

 

[JaxMan]

In 3.03b, no. But 3.04 continues from there. There is nothing anymore with William, but there is another possibility, which can actually go in more than one direction.
Just an hint/suggestion, Myriam loves her little puppy and is corageous enough to walk in the dark forest ;-)

I'm playing 3.04a and started from the begining, i.e. not a save from 3.03b. End of content screen shows same version, 3.04a and it stops at the door with Myriam walking the dog. Furry and top dog are active.

Just a thought, I do have the most recent wt mod installed. Could that be a problem, though it hasn't been an issue before?

 

[ouch2020]

If a character is submissive he/she would act in certain ways. Meaning, there is usually no escape route.
Most games give the character thoughts of doubt but ultimately submit to demands, or so it seems. Character will think something like, not a big deal if do that. But usually can say no and dismiss demand.

My point is, that she would not dare to say no. Though again, to be in compliance with law and policies, she has the option to make it "free will".
Marc has so much power over her, that she willingly sucks him off in the car and goes to the church cum covered to make a photo.

Uh, if I may, remember to use the tag, there are people who are new to the game, and have not yet explored the possibiltiies.

I understand your point, and you are mostly correct, if someone goes beyond a certain point, it will be extremely difficult that than they say move far from it, or even completely to the opposite (becoming fully dominant), especially if interacting with the same person (different matter with others).
Impossible, is never 100% true, but indeed, the more the person goes beyond that limit, the more difficult, and may seem impossible, even for the person.
Effectively, supporting a person in certain weak situations (and I am not referring specifically to one like Myriam's, although think about the sessions with Dr Silver), is that it is necessary for the person to start taking charge of their own decisions, thus building confidence, but being used to feel weak, that everything is impossible, and/or used that someone else is making all the decisions for them, they may be tempted to do the same with the person helping them (aside the risk of developing feelings of a different nature, but that are in reality linked to the situation, kind of not real).
But I did not say that any change in Myriam it would happen at once, and with just one choice. Even when she intervenes at the school, she then let him do it, while he blows the other boy.
But Marc is correct, that she gets off by doing that stuff and even the whole "forbidden fruit" (if incest is active) and risky situation, and after, she reproaches Marc, so, in reality, she does have some limits, and she not purely passive. .
Honestly, if someone played the game full steam ahead in a direction, would seem a contradiction to then want to get to the opposite, but my guess (it depends on the game) is that it is possible to reach also a kind of partial compromise situation.

 

[ouch2020]

I'm playing 3.04a and started from the begining, i.e. not a save from 3.03b. End of content screen shows same version, 3.04a and it stops at the door with Myriam walking the dog. Furry and top dog are active.

Just a thought, I do have the most recent wt mod installed. Could that be a problem, though it hasn't been an issue before?

Check the wt mod is really the latest. Just saying that, because I remember it was updated, but the previous one, was effectively ending at the end of 3.03b, which corresponds to your description.

 

[Dylan741]

I'm playing 3.04a and started from the begining, i.e. not a save from 3.03b. End of content screen shows same version, 3.04a and it stops at the door with Myriam walking the dog. Furry and top dog are active.

I think you need to download it again the current version is 0.34 a-pcp or macp (for Mac users), and it not stop at the door.

 

[ouch2020]

If Marc goes too far, especially if it's with someone other than her, she'll definitely make sure he knows it. And considering that Lucy is teaching her how to fight, and Myriam is a pretty tall woman with an athletic physique. I reckon a future Myriam could be pretty menacing if she chose to be so.

Please Please let her have a future fight with Anthony, where she decks him. That would be so satisfying.

Hmm, I would say, overall partially correct, if you consider also the part of your message I cut.
True she did something react in some way to some things, but that depends from the player (we could have chosen e.g. for her not to intervene at the school, while with Anthony, in reality there is the possiblity for her not to kick Anthony out when Kimberley appears, it is just that Zorlun foresaw it as an early ending, and has not yet implemented it ).

About the physical, it is much less relevant than what it seems. People who are very submissive towards someone, may even be physically stronger, yet not react, because it is not a matter of rational assessment of relative strenghts.
Additionally, if one consider certain factors, Myriam has a strong conscience and very strong mothernal caretaking/protective side, which depending on the choices of the player can even be abused to a certain extent, e.g. by Anthony, Marc, the priest.
It would not be strange if the more she increases her fighting skill, the more she also learn to refrain from using them, and that she would think twice before using them.
Effectively, the first rule of good learning of martial arts, is that there is a difference between martial arts and drunk street fist fight, the second is easy to happen in UK (sorry, politically incorrect joke), the first should not be used lightly.
Plus, yes we know something, but if you look in the game , it seems she never reported Anthony herself, eventually only Kimberley for the sexual harassment.
If that is the case, even if Anthony cheated on her, and even more while doing sexual harassment (which would give her certainly a good point in court), unless he tries to attack her physically, if she kicks his butt, it would actually go against her interest in the legal battle, a nasty lawyer would probably turn it around into her being the violent one (remember a lawyer who said preferred to work on criminal law than on divorce cases, because criminal could mean ugly stuff, but divorce, was often kind of "total destruction").
.

So, the scenario you foresee/are asking for, could work only under some conditions.
I agree is only a game, and it would be satisfying to see the bad guy being kicked in the ass, but honestly, if he is a narcissist as it was said at a certain point, there are other ways that are more effective.

 

[Deleted member 3586865]

Uh, if I may, remember to use the tag, there are people who are new to the game, and have not yet explored the possibiltiies.

I understand your point, and you are mostly correct, if someone goes beyond a certain point, it will be extremely difficult that than they say move far from it, or even completely to the opposite (becoming fully dominant), especially if interacting with the same person (different matter with others).
Impossible, is never 100% true, but indeed, the more the person goes beyond that limit, the more difficult, and may seem impossible, even for the person.
Effectively, supporting a person in certain weak situations (and I am not referring specifically to one like Myriam's, although think about the sessions with Dr Silver), is that it is necessary for the person to start taking charge of their own decisions, thus building confidence, but being used to feel weak, that everything is impossible, and/or used that someone else is making all the decisions for them, they may be tempted to do the same with the person helping them (aside the risk of developing feelings of a different nature, but that are in reality linked to the situation, kind of not real).
But I did not say that any change in Myriam it would happen at once, and with just one choice. Even when she intervenes at the school, she then let him do it, while he blows the other boy.
But Marc is correct, that she gets off by doing that stuff and even the whole "forbidden fruit" (if incest is active) and risky situation, and after, she reproaches Marc, so, in reality, she does have some limits, and she not purely passive. .
Honestly, if someone played the game full steam ahead in a direction, would seem a contradiction to then want to get to the opposite, but my guess (it depends on the game) is that it is possible to reach also a kind of partial compromise situation.

Yes, i agree.
Though, i think i really should try to play it in the dominant direction. I am curious where it will lead her. she has options and not become a fucktoy. Its the same way that i avoided the lesbian part mostly.

I am not sure about the doctor though. Yes, he would "in the real world" help her. Though i am not sure if he really is doing that. I have the gut feeling that he has some sinister plans of its own. So i am not really sure.
No, i think that was an misunderstanding. One choice will and should not have a big impact. It would be gradually over some time. You get a taste (or her) and think (you) if you like it and pursue it.
Its like when you are in the Livingroom and watch the movie. There are different options. Though i of course like the dream option.
In the end, its a game. So i am not giving to much thought to it. And of course, everyone she is meeting during the game wants to get in her pants. But she has of course options. In a sense, this makes it great.
Though i always wonder game mechanic wise, what makes sense or does not. How much control should a player actually have. Or to what point.
I think if you answer in certain ways, it makes or would make sense to me that the character kind of automatically does certain things. If that makes sense. So what i am saying is more a general opinion on the games as a whole and not this specific game.
Like i played once Manila Shaw and was thrown off in how the game mechanics worked. But i think it mostly how corruption in games work where i wonder why i should say yes if i have a choice. Or better, how influential are my enemies.

 

[IHATESlowburnBluBallgames]

Hmm, I would say, overall partially correct, if you consider also the part of your message I cut.
True she did something react in some way to some things, but that depends from the player (we could have chosen e.g. for her not to intervene at the school, while with Anthony, in reality there is the possiblity for her not to kick Anthony out when Kimberley appears, it is just that Zorlun foresaw it as an early ending, and has not yet implemented it ).

About the physical, it is much less relevant than what it seems. People who are very submissive towards someone, may even be physically stronger, yet not react, because it is not a matter of rational assessment of relative strenghts.
Additionally, if one consider certain factors, Myriam has a strong conscience and very strong mothernal caretaking/protective side, which depending on the choices of the player can even be abused to a certain extent, e.g. by Anthony, Marc, the priest.
It would not be strange if the more she increases her fighting skill, the more she also learn to refrain from using them, and that she would think twice before using them.
Effectively, the first rule of good learning of martial arts, is that there is a difference between martial arts and drunk street fist fight, the second is easy to happen in UK (sorry, politically incorrect joke), the first should not be used lightly.
Plus, yes we know something, but if you look in the game , it seems she never reported Anthony herself, eventually only Kimberley for the sexual harassment.
If that is the case, even if Anthony cheated on her, and even more while doing sexual harassment (which would give her certainly a good point in court), unless he tries to attack her physically, if she kicks his butt, it would actually go against her interest in the legal battle, a nasty lawyer would probably turn it around into her being the violent one (remember a lawyer who said preferred to work on criminal law than on divorce cases, because criminal could mean ugly stuff, but divorce, was often kind of "total destruction").
.

So, the scenario you foresee/are asking for, could work only under some conditions.
I agree is only a game, and it would be satisfying to see the bad guy being kicked in the ass, but honestly, if he is a narcissist as it was said at a certain point, there are other ways that are more effective.

Agree with your post but if they go to court Myriams father is the owner of the company, so I’m pretty sure he’s got the best lawyers working for him already for Myriam to use, & with his power I’m sure he could even pay off other good lawyers not to take assholes case.

 

[Viressa]

Of course Myriam could always just like, poison Anthony. There are plenty of ways to do it that won't make the police suspect foul play, and if they don't, they won't bother to run chemical tests on the body.

That's an, uhh, much darker direction than this game should probably go, though.

Honestly I don't really give a shit about Anthony, I'd be satisfied if the rest of the game just pretended he doesn't exist. The only wrinkle in that is the custody battle over Marc. I don't really care about him either, but I know all the M/S fans would cry if Marc just vanished from the game.

 

[Deleted member 3586865]

Of course Myriam could always just like, poison Anthony. There are plenty of ways to do it that won't make the police suspect foul play, and if they don't, they won't bother to run chemical tests on the body.

That's an, uhh, much darker direction than this game should probably go, though.

Honestly I don't really give a shit about Anthony, I'd be satisfied if the rest of the game just pretended he doesn't exist. The only wrinkle in that is the custody battle over Marc. I don't really care about him either, but I know all the M/S fans would cry if Marc just vanished from the game.

Anthony, he could had a heart attack and thus died. That would be the easy way. Maybe some funeral scene for dad. Or he just disappears in the horizon with some other chick he can abuse.

 

[Zara Scarlet]

Well, it seems is a bit more complicated than that. It seem Patreon did not make it very clear, there are still today games where incest is inteqral part of the thing, and they have been for years happily on Patreon.
Honestly, one thing is incest being legal or not (first reaction, no, but it turns out, there is some USA state where brother and sister cannot marry, but can have sex without problems), another is whether its depiction in a work of fantasy, which is not made or distributed from Califormia is (Zorlun is not from USA), can bring legal chargest against Patreon.

Effectively, Patreon told Zorlun he could not distribute, or be involved with, any incest patch, even if it was distributed on another platform anywhere on the Internet, and never mentioned or distributed through Patreon.
It was already pointed out it is more a matter of internal rules and moral control, even by credit card issuers (although credit cards are widely used by people for porn, which has real people), than a real legal danger for Patreon from the State.

We had an exchange about UK law with someone.
It seemed the law (found the specific law about incest I think from '58, apparently the last), linked it to blood, so "step" or adopted would not apply for "incest", however it was already indicated that they anyway prosecute using formally different possibilities, though then people understand (or they say explicitly) that is due to the "step"/adoption.
The mention was that in case of "step", they will not prosecute if the stepson or daughterr has not lived with the stepmother/stepfather in the period of time before becoming 21 years of age (that also suggests that formally, they may be charging saying something like exploitation of the minor by taking advantage of the authority, or something similar, which woudl be usable in many countries).
I would not bet California and UK really have the same identical law about this, but if you say so, I guess I will just have to trust your word.

About the incest patch, there is alredy an incest patch, I make it , though unfortunately it does require manually checking and editing the code.

Zorlun cannot participate (for Patreon, and due to time) in its creation or distribution, he cannot even tell people they should install it (aside the fact not everybody wants the incest possibility), but that does not mean we cannot have exchanges, on this forum, about it, with him, including on the impact/usefulness of the "legal guardian" to help continuing that line.

The incest laws only really have any relevance, when it involves cases of non-consent. Either rape of adults or involving minors. I guess between consenting adults, it virtually never results in prosecution. Either because authorities never become aware of it, or it's virtually impossible to prove even if they do. If both parties deny it, short of someone else having video evidence to back up their allegations. It would be impossible to prove, and I'm guessing it's not often that such cases go to court.

In the UK, anyone who can legally be considered a close family member, whether blood related or not, would be guilty of incest if they have sex. As far as I'm aware, California follows the same rules, as do about a third of US states. In Rhode Island though its only illegal for family members to get married. It's perfectly legal for them to have sex as long as they're over 16.

 

[Viressa]

The actual law isn't really what's relevant: It's Patreon that forbids incest content regardless of the creator's country of origin and their local laws, and Patreon cares because Mastercard cares, and Mastercard cares because it's run by puritanical weirdos who're willing and eager to use the power of their massive financial institution to push their religious ideology onto others as far as they can get away with. (Really, they'd prefer it if Patreon allowed no NSFW content at all, and that's probably where we'll be in a few years.)

 

[john984]

Bibifoc is the gallery mod ready? sorry for asking many times

 

[Zara Scarlet]

Hmm, I would say, overall partially correct, if you consider also the part of your message I cut.
True she did something react in some way to some things, but that depends from the player (we could have chosen e.g. for her not to intervene at the school, while with Anthony, in reality there is the possiblity for her not to kick Anthony out when Kimberley appears, it is just that Zorlun foresaw it as an early ending, and has not yet implemented it ).

About the physical, it is much less relevant than what it seems. People who are very submissive towards someone, may even be physically stronger, yet not react, because it is not a matter of rational assessment of relative strenghts.
Additionally, if one consider certain factors, Myriam has a strong conscience and very strong mothernal caretaking/protective side, which depending on the choices of the player can even be abused to a certain extent, e.g. by Anthony, Marc, the priest.
It would not be strange if the more she increases her fighting skill, the more she also learn to refrain from using them, and that she would think twice before using them.
Effectively, the first rule of good learning of martial arts, is that there is a difference between martial arts and drunk street fist fight, the second is easy to happen in UK (sorry, politically incorrect joke), the first should not be used lightly.
Plus, yes we know something, but if you look in the game , it seems she never reported Anthony herself, eventually only Kimberley for the sexual harassment.
If that is the case, even if Anthony cheated on her, and even more while doing sexual harassment (which would give her certainly a good point in court), unless he tries to attack her physically, if she kicks his butt, it would actually go against her interest in the legal battle, a nasty lawyer would probably turn it around into her being the violent one (remember a lawyer who said preferred to work on criminal law than on divorce cases, because criminal could mean ugly stuff, but divorce, was often kind of "total destruction").
.

So, the scenario you foresee/are asking for, could work only under some conditions.
I agree is only a game, and it would be satisfying to see the bad guy being kicked in the ass, but honestly, if he is a narcissist as it was said at a certain point, there are other ways that are more effective.

Well I only suggested that Myriam would stand up to Anthony and Marc when they abused other people. I mean obviously as a submissive, she's either afraid Anthony will end their relationship, if she doesn't give in to his abusive behaviour or because she naturally enjoys being dominated anyway. But Myriam won't tolerate it, when it's happening to someone else, particularly those who arouse her maternal instinct to protect.

And as far as hitting Anthony in a fight. I really mean't before the end of the game, and preferably after the custody battle has been settled. Zorlun has already indicated that will happen well before the end of the game. And I'm guessing Anthony's return will be an attempt to exact some form of revenge on Myriam. So I reckon that could end up giving her ample reason, to try out her new martial skills

 

[Zara Scarlet]

The actual law isn't really what's relevant: It's Patreon that forbids incest content regardless of the creator's country of origin and their local laws, and Patreon cares because Mastercard cares, and Mastercard cares because it's run by puritanical weirdos who're willing and eager to use the power of their massive financial institution to push their religious ideology onto others as far as they can get away with. (Really, they'd prefer it if Patreon allowed no NSFW content at all, and that's probably where we'll be in a few years.)

Well that's what I said. Patreon is based in a state which prohibits incestuous acts between any family members. It's rules are generated by the state it operates in. It doesn't matter if the creator lives in a country that has different rules, because he still has to abide by the rules that Patreon determines for their site. If Mastercard decided for instance that they'd only support Patreon if they agreed to allow incest, Patreon still wouldn't be able to allow it, because the state law of California would still prohibit it. If what you said is correct and Mastercard has so much influence, then why wait several more years to get rid of everything?

 

[Deleted member 3586865]

To be honest, this is all gibberish.
For one, everyone knows what games are on Patreon. Not just games, but also mods.
I just need to look on this website and where games direction go.
I do not think they are oblivious to the fact.
So its just to put a good face on the fact and since they want to make money, they will not enforced it completely.

Still, this is a game and i personally like it and it would be a shame not to have these games.
Especially since you probably will not have the joy to have a relationship with a super looking mom in the first place. So i like the fantasy.
And i am not getting in the argument Patron/Mastercard because its pointless and who cares really.
The reason why everyone is using Patreon is because it rules the space it created. Therefor it can make rules. I think there are options for alternatives but not as much known. But more importantly, i does not want to lose revenue because of controversies.
In the end, it does not matter and you work with what you can do. There is always a patch. Somewhere.....
The system is very hypocritical.

 

[Zara Scarlet]

Of course Myriam could always just like, poison Anthony. There are plenty of ways to do it that won't make the police suspect foul play, and if they don't, they won't bother to run chemical tests on the body.

That's an, uhh, much darker direction than this game should probably go, though.

Honestly I don't really give a shit about Anthony, I'd be satisfied if the rest of the game just pretended he doesn't exist. The only wrinkle in that is the custody battle over Marc. I don't really care about him either, but I know all the M/S fans would cry if Marc just vanished from the game.

Even on the sub route, I was really happy when I was given no option for Anthony to disappear from the game. I mean really he's no loss even on the sub route. There are far better options for Myriam to submit to. But now I learn he's coming back. I mean why? Apart from the dubious pleasure of possibly seeing Myriam flatten him with her newly discovered martial skills. Beyond the custody battle what can he add to the game? That every other of the games numerous characters can do much better?