Unity Pure Onyx [v0.12] [Eromancer]

[tetrayrok]

That's a silly definition, of course Eromancer hasn't forgotten Malise, its characters are still used for Patreon's tier list, but that's not evidence production will resume; the indisputable fact is Malise was announced in 2014, development was "paused" in 2018, and there hasn't been any news about it since, the project has been abandoned longer than it was in development, and the hope it might restart if the current "side project" is completed does not change that.

Saying that's not "ditched" is like saying your SO didn't "dump" you after staring at their Facebook timeline of them snogging someone else for the past five years, because they didn't explicitly say they were dumping you and you expect them to come back whenever they're done with their current "side" relationship.

Also Discord access starts at the second patron tier, it's the same self-selective group as the Patreon comment section, I didn't think I needed to include literally the same group of people, but I should have for clarity. My bad.


That's fair, I can appreciate your frustration towards the claims you believe to be untrue, but the crux of my argument was the arguments about the technical aspects of development are irrelevant, because the real problem is what happened with Malise.

Arguments about the development cycle don't matter because they're a repeat of the arguments of Malise's (and similarly shady games, like Operation Lovecraft) development cycle: hyperbolic criticisms of "no progress" can be countered by little updates showing some progress, feasible speculation on why it's slow can be countered using equally feasible speculation on why it's justified, etc. It gets us nowhere and really isn't informative to anyone new to all of this.

However the undeniable fact is Eromancer took money for Malise and, almost a decade later, still hasn't delivered a finished product, any claims that this won't happen to Pure Onyx or that Malise will eventually be finished is purely speculative. This is why I consider it the real issue, because it does not rely on speculation, nor does it invite hyperbole, and has a clear solution: finish Malise or refund backers of Malice. This is the issue that anyone new to Pure Onyx should be aware of and what should inform their expectations.

Really the system should all be in place and coded, the animations is what is holding it back not the systems of displaying or showing it.

There are no new mechanics being done or new gameplay mechanics being added. So really it's the animators that are essentially holding the project back.

 

[Lordnightwolf]

You will soon the feet modeling is being finished! They're just working on keeping those feet touching the ground :3

hey kitty do you support the game?

 

[SomeOriginalUsername]

Really the system should all be in place and coded, the animations is what is holding it back not the systems of displaying or showing it.

There are no new mechanics being done or new gameplay mechanics being added. So really it's the animators that are essentially holding the project back.

Like I said, not here to make speculative arguments. I'm skeptical because he took money for Malise and didn't deliver, I view Pure Onyx in that light, the only things Eromancer can do to set things right is to finish Malise or refund backers of Malise.

Finishing Pure Onyx would be a nice surprise and would make me doubt the possibility of him picking Malise back up a little less, but doesn't make things right.

 

[KittyMaid]

That's a silly definition, of course Eromancer hasn't forgotten Malise, its characters are still used for Patreon's tier list, but that's not evidence production will resume; the indisputable fact is Malise was announced in 2014, development was "paused" in 2018, and there hasn't been any news about it since, the project has been abandoned longer than it was in development, and the hope it might restart if the current "side project" is completed does not change that.

Saying that's not "ditched" is like saying your SO didn't "dump" you after staring at their Facebook timeline of them snogging someone else for the past five years, because they didn't explicitly say they were dumping you and you expect them to come back whenever they're done with their current "side" relationship.

Also Discord access starts at the second patron tier, it's the same self-selective group as the Patreon comment section, I didn't think I needed to include literally the same group of people, but I should have for clarity. My bad.


That's fair, I can appreciate your frustration towards the claims you believe to be untrue, but the crux of my argument was the arguments about the technical aspects of development are irrelevant, because the real problem is what happened with Malise.

Arguments about the development cycle don't matter because they're a repeat of the arguments of Malise's (and similarly shady games, like Operation Lovecraft) development cycle: hyperbolic criticisms of "no progress" can be countered by little updates showing some progress, feasible speculation on why it's slow can be countered using equally feasible speculation on why it's justified, etc. It gets us nowhere and really isn't informative to anyone new to all of this.

However the undeniable fact is Eromancer took money for Malise and, almost a decade later, still hasn't delivered a finished product, any claims that this won't happen to Pure Onyx or that Malise will eventually be finished is purely speculative. This is why I consider it the real issue, because it does not rely on speculation, nor does it invite hyperbole, and has a clear solution: finish Malise or refund backers of Malice. This is the issue that anyone new to Pure Onyx should be aware of and what should inform their expectations.

I gave you the factual definition. If that is not what you meant why did you use that word? You're arguing yourself at this point. You made the mistake i didn't.

The devs literally said they will return to game once they feel capable to do so. Who will i believe, the devs or a stranger on F95? Logically the people who created it. PO has gone on as long as MATM, by your logic he should abandon it soon. There has been no mention of another project he's switching too, nor is there any sign of slowing down. If anything they are working to speed things up. The spiders i mentioned few months ago are now being prep for the update. Why that would discourage me? I don't see how being pessimistic would answer anything.

Why would he refund? Patreon states what you are paying for, he gave people access to the game as it was being develop. This wasn't a GoFundMe. It's a subscription.

If you don't want join discord thats your issues then, the info is there.

 

[KittyMaid]

hey kitty do you support the game?

i do, its how i got the Oynx foot screenshot you won't find it on Patreon pirate site because is from discord which you must support to join :3

 

[KittyMaid]

Doesn't make it any less true

It does, it means you're trolling so you lose credibility, sorry.

 

[LewdDudeSendThaNewds]

You arguing things that are going off topic, i used Ero to stay on topic.
To keep it short, the income you "quoted" from Lisa is only her art lessons, you didn't account her actually paintings and other things sold. Shen is same he has Webtoon, Newgrounds, Tumblr, yes they all do pay you.
SFW artist make money indirectly which is why is more lucrative. NSFW requires crowd-funding since no company wants to work with them. Hence Roit Games example.

Non-lewd games on average still generate more than NSFW games.

Programmers which the initial topic was about aren't bound to just gaming, on average they earn 6k a month on the low end. That's a third of Ero's earnings just for 1 person, and he has 11+ devs.

My brother in Christ the topic was artists, you said nsfw artists make less so I responded with examples of artists.

Your example of Riot games still doesn't make sense, I quoted the average for artists in the US, as in the average artist working for the average sfw game company. Riot is still an outlier.

Most professional artists (sfw and nsfw) do commissions, it just so happens that Patreon numbers are more consistent and publicly available (and since they're also a metric of how willing people are to pay for work can reasonably, albeit roughly, be correlated with commission income).

Other than Tumblr, you do realize that the other platforms you listed allow nsfw content? Fuck man Newgrounds even has a reputation for hosting nsfw stuff.

You also aren't very familiar with game dev or art in general if you think that doing nsfw art will keep companies from hiring you. It's true that it depends on the company to a degree but so long as you aren't drawing uber-depraved stuff many companies will consider nsfw parts of a portfolio. There are plenty of examples of artists who do nsfw stuff and get gigs at publishers(of all kinds). Milo Menara is BEST known for his erotica (fuck it's the only thing his wiki page really even talks about), yet the guy wrote and illustrated several comics for fucking Marvel. Now consider how much less that matters to a game company where the artists DON'T get their names on the cover.

"Non-lewd games making more on average" just confirms that you know nothing about game dev. Just take a look at indie game stats on Steam, Median lifetime income is around ~1000$, and less than 50% break 4000$. Ero games aren't stellar but they have a median of ~3000$ on a platform that is still pretty reluctant to advertise them. Further, consider that ero games are usually smaller in scale with less development overhead and many receive funding from Patreon or Subscribestar during development.

I also have no clue why you think artists are bound to just gaming.

There is also no way that Ero is actually keeping 11+ people on deck and full-time, if that were the case there would be actual progress. It's much more likely that animations and art are done on commission when he needs to put out something once a year. The technical side of things is also moving at such a glacial pace suggesting the software side of the team is barely there as well. Paired with his reputation Ero is 100% just pocketing the vast majority of his funding while writing the 50th changelog about optimizing cum physics.

 

[SomeOriginalUsername]

I gave you the factual definition. If that is not what you meant why did you use that word? You're arguing yourself at this point. You made the mistake i didn't.

No, you made the mistake of trying to assert "ditched" required something be forgotten. I was explaining Malise has been ditched despite not being forgotten, and was using the analogy to illustrate how ridiculous you sound trying to claim a project that's 9 years old and hasn't been touched in 5 years hasn't been "ditched".

The devs literally said they will return to game once they feel capable to do so. Who will i believe, the devs or a stranger on F95? Logically the people who created it. PO has gone on as long as MATM, by your logic he should abandon it soon.

Logically you would look at the history of the developer and not just believe anyone on their words alone.

Like I said, I'm not making speculative arguments, I've only argued facts and why it's the basis for skepticism. I didn't suggest development of Pure Onyx should've been abandoned at the four year mark, that's something you injected; in fact, did you forget my first post on this thread literally gave Eromancer credit for staying with Pure Onyx longer than he did Malise?

There has been no mention of another project he's switching too, nor is there any sign of slowing down. If anything they are working to speed things up. The spiders i mentioned few months ago are now being prep for the update. Why that would discourage me? I don't see how being pessimistic would answer anything.

Then you haven't been paying attention, he did announce something new four years (coincidentally?) after announcing Pure Onyx:

You must be registered to see the links

Now to be fair, XXXIV isn't a game so theoretically (speculative, I know, but I'm trying to be nice) pulling four artists out of the stable of ten+ shouldn't slow anything down. Also I never said you should be discouraged, so why are you asking me?

Why would he refund? Patreon states what you are paying for, he gave people access to the game as it was being develop. This wasn't a GoFundMe. It's a subscription.

If you don't want join discord thats your issues then, the info is there.

Just because it's allowed under the rules doesn't make it right, Eromancer has a moral obligation to finish Malise or offer a refund if he doesn't.

And no, why the hell would I pay a sub to get information on two unfinished games? I pay for full content, not fractions or promises of.

 

[KittyMaid]

My brother in Christ the topic was artists, you said nsfw artists make less so I responded with examples of artists.

Your example of Riot games still doesn't make sense, I quoted the average for artists in the US, as in the average artist working for the average sfw game company. Riot is still an outlier.

Most professional artists (sfw and nsfw) do commissions, it just so happens that Patreon numbers are more consistent and publicly available (and since they're also a metric of how willing people are to pay for work can reasonably, albeit roughly, be correlated with commission income).

Other than Tumblr, you do realize that the other platforms you listed allow nsfw content? Fuck man Newgrounds even has a reputation for hosting nsfw stuff.

You also aren't very familiar with game dev or art in general if you think that doing nsfw art will keep companies from hiring you. It's true that it depends on the company to a degree but so long as you aren't drawing uber-depraved stuff many companies will consider nsfw parts of a portfolio. There are plenty of examples of artists who do nsfw stuff and get gigs at publishers(of all kinds). Milo Menara is BEST known for his erotica (fuck it's the only thing his wiki page really even talks about), yet the guy wrote and illustrated several comics for fucking Marvel. Now consider how much less that matters to a game company where the artists DON'T get their names on the cover.

"Non-lewd games making more on average" just confirms that you know nothing about game dev. Just take a look at indie game stats on Steam, Median lifetime income is around ~1000$, and less than 50% break 4000$. Ero games aren't stellar but they have a median of ~3000$ on a platform that is still pretty reluctant to advertise them. Further, consider that ero games are usually smaller in scale with less development overhead and many receive funding from Patreon or Subscribestar during development.

I also have no clue why you think artists are bound to just gaming.

There is also no way that Ero is actually keeping 11+ people on deck and full-time, if that were the case there would be actual progress. It's much more likely that animations and art are done on commission when he needs to put out something once a year. The technical side of things is also moving at such a glacial pace suggesting the software side of the team is barely there as well. Paired with his reputation Ero is 100% just pocketing the vast majority of his funding while writing the 50th changelog about optimizing cum physics.

No it was not, you missed the purpose of the example. The topic was hiring programmers, you narrowed your argument down to my example because you wanted to. I also never said "doing nsfw art will keep companies from hiring you" you made that up yourself from going in circles. I said if they had to choose who to work for, most would work for a SFW company where they would find a better wage. You also claim NSFW makes so much revenue but didn't like when i mentioned Riot Games. Stardew Valley alone has made more income than most NSFW games, for a game that was made by a single person. Why has there not been any NSFW equivalent? And even if there was Stardew is only one of many successful SFW indie games. You don't require much research to find that out. Your argument also doesn't explain why on Steam alone the top sold games are SFW games, even though they allow NSFW. Maybe because most companies would rather not work on NSFW games which have far more restrictions and less marketability. I don't why you keep going down this rabbit hole. You are trying to prove a point that is no longer relevant at this point.

 

[KittyMaid]

No, you made the mistake of trying to assert "ditched" required something be forgotten

Ok "forgotten" was a weird definition i don't know where i got that, but the real definition is

: to get rid of : DISCARD
: to end association with : LEAVE

So technically i'm still not wrong, he has not ended association with MATM. I also explain that the old version itself has but not the actual game MATM.

Logically you would look at the history of the developer and not just believe anyone on their words alone.

I have, i literally said using your logic he should be abandoning the game soon, but shows no signs of it.

Then you haven't been paying attention, he did announce something new four years

I have, but that is not a game, and XXXIV hasn't been touched because there is no time for it. Meaning PO is the priority right now. Which is why i didn't mention it, so you brought up a meaningless point.

Just because it's allowed under the rules doesn't make it right, Eromancer has a moral obligation to finish Malise or offer a refund if he doesn't.

Yes, that what the rules are for or they would have changed. He doesn't want to continue working with Daz3D renders, he wants to make full animations so why finish a game he is going to remake anyways? There is no Logic in that.

 

[CourierNPC]

There's that passive aggression again idk why everyone always resorts to that. I was starting to see you as the mature one above others, and you do that

"Oh, yeah, I'm not exactly good at business or even workflows, just saying from what I know because you seem like the one that works as an insider somewhere or even know the business for so long that no mere mortals here understand your decree -- so correct me if I'm wrong

'Cause, you know, you love tangents more than I love pies"

If questioning your expertise on the matter hurt you so much, I... really don't know what to say. I have no "passive-aggressive" intention toward you. It was a very literal praise of how much you know the info that every one of us may take a few months or even years. You're the one with the access and I wonder why are you the one telling me that I was being "passive-aggressive."

I already said "So, correct me if I'm wrong", and there's your chance to right my wrongs by providing enough evidence so that I can move on to other things to discuss.

Thank you for your time replying.

 

[CourierNPC]

im not "ur guy"

So, "your gal" would be preferable, then?

'Least I'm not alone here, now

 

[CourierNPC]

he has not ended association with MATM

Half-ended the association, if that somehow makes sense. It is still a part of Pure Onyx but the development of it was non-existent since 2018/2019 with nothing to be announced or at least conceptualized to my recollection, at least...

Unless you got that bareback access to their Discord server, that may change things around here... well, other than KittyMaid, we're really not sure whether MATM is in the works slowly but surely or just left in the backburner until Pure Onyx finishes when it's time... my estimate would be somewhere in the late 2020s before MATM continue as another standalone game (which by then the MATM project is already entering its first two decades, and Pure Onyx entering its first decade, more or less)

 

[KittyMaid]

"Oh, yeah, I'm not exactly good at business or even workflows, just saying from what I know because you seem like the one that works as an insider somewhere or even know the business for so long that no mere mortals here understand your decree -- so correct me if I'm wrong

'Cause, you know, you love tangents more than I love pies"

If questioning your expertise on the matter hurt you so much, I... really don't know what to say. I have no "passive-aggressive" intention toward you. It was a very literal praise of how much you know the info that every one of us may take a few months or even years. You're the one with the access and I wonder why are you the one telling me that I was being "passive-aggressive."

I already said "So, correct me if I'm wrong", and there's your chance to right my wrongs by providing enough evidence so that I can move on to other things to discuss.

Thank you for your time replying.

The way you phrased it made it seem sarcastic, if that wasn't you intention then i sorry. Its often used against me, so i get confused.

 

[KittyMaid]

Half-ended the association, if that somehow makes sense. It is still a part of Pure Onyx but the development of it was non-existent since 2018/2019 with nothing to be announced or at least conceptualized to my recollection, at least...

The game itself yes, the project no. Remember what goes into PO will be tossed over to MATM, meaning progress will be much quicker than PO as there will be less things do to start from scratch, most of the focus will be on story and gameplay. PO and MATM's story occur at roughly the same time, meaning they will crossover. So PO's story, settings, characters, game assets, programming all benefit MATM.

 

[Litoningu]

The way you phrased it made it seem sarcastic, if that wasn't you intention then i sorry. Its often used against me, so i get confused.

Given how you react to most criticism in Mancer's place almost like a pot then it's to be expected that people become disdainful of you.

But you can always stay objective and true if you really believe what you are doing is just and doesn't hurt anyone physically, but mentally? That's an individual business, definitely not mine.

You don't need to correct everyone's opinions of what's right and wrong, you only need to correct or add up to those with genuine curiosity and doubts. It is fully up to them how they will take your answer, as well as hater will stay hating.

As for me, I had enough of Ero's related topics, meme-ing about them is fun and all but progression-wise, I say, I've seen enough progress, they clearly made it, be it slow as a snail, but progress is progress. Now I only want to see the results.

Take another 5 or 10 years, doesn't matter to me, all that backing money isn't mine either.

People can make their own choices and if their choice is to stick to, or have faith in whatever Mancer is cooking, then I should respect that as well.

I won't be here to pick up every possible nickel and dime, I learned my lesson and rather, either wait for a full bill with full experiences or just forget about them completely, it's better for me that way.

Less I see [Abandoned] tag on them after another 5 years or so, at least I can experience a bigger package than nibbling a bit out of them every year or/and periods.

 

[SomeOriginalUsername]

Ok "forgotten" was a weird definition i don't know where i got that, but the real definition is

: to get rid of : DISCARD
: to end association with : LEAVE

So technically i'm still not wrong, he has not ended association with MATM. I also explain that the old version itself has but not the actual game MATM.

That's a fair point, he hasn't tried to hide his association with Malise. Looking back I realize my mistake was saying he "ditched Malise" when I should've said he "ditched development of Malise", I didn't mean to suggest he ditched the IP itself (which would be silly considering Pure Onyx takes place in the same universe).

I have, i literally said using your logic he should be abandoning the game soon, but shows no signs of it.

Again, I have not suggested that, you misunderstood my logic. I'm not saying his past behavior says he'll definitely abandon the game soon, or that his MO is to spinoff to a new project whenever he's preparing to abandon the current game; I'm saying new people have to take into consideration how Eromancer abandoned (or massively delayed) development of Malise and how long ago that happened when forming their expectations on if/when Pure Onyx will come out.

You might not see how being pessimistic helps, but when it comes to spending money, being overly optimistic doesn't help either.

I have, but that is not a game, and XXXIV hasn't been touched because there is no time for it. Meaning PO is the priority right now. Which is why i didn't mention it, so you brought up a meaningless point.

I don't quite agree it was a meaningless point, even if it's not a game it's a project that would've taken resources (the artists and the money to pay said artists) away from Pure Onyx - a point I did touch upon, but did acknowledge might not have a big effect.

That said, it's ultimately a positive for Eromancer, because the fact he pulled back to continue focusing on Pure Onyx suggests he learned his lesson about trying to start a side project before the main project's done.

Yes, that what the rules are for or they would have changed. He doesn't want to continue working with Daz3D renders, he wants to make full animations so why finish a game he is going to remake anyways? There is no Logic in that.

You mean he doesn't want to work with Daz3D still renders anymore, right? I'm assuming he will continue using Daz3D for the animations, since that's what Pure Onyx uses, but I'm a little confused because his XXXIV announcement made references to sculpting 3D figures, which suggests Blender or similar.

But if that were the case, RPGMaker supports animations, there's no reason why Eromancer can't just finish Malise using Daz3D animations, that doesn't require a full remake.

 

[Yojimbo543]

PO has gone on as long as MATM, by your logic he should abandon it soon. There has been no mention of another project he's switching too, nor is there any sign of slowing down. If anything they are working to speed things up.

No slowing down? Let's check out THE FACTS:

2021 - Average monthly income $15K
3 New in-game enemies (Chain Splicer, Splicer Runt, FemCop)
3 New gallery enemies with H-animations (MaleCop, Blade Bunny, Bat Bunny)
8 New Onyx H-animations (Splicer Thug and Runt, Chain Splicer, Chain Splicer and Runt, Chain Splicer and Thug, FemCop, FemCop and MaleCop, Bunny Blowjob, Bunny Pole Fuck)
2 New FemCop H-animations (Vraxe Standing, Vraxe Lift)
I won't count the Onyx Vraxe Standing and Lift animations as "new" - even when they were included in the Jan 7, 2021 update - because Gifdoozer made them on December 2020. That's a freebie I'm giving you.

2022 - Average monthly income $20K
2 New in-game enemies (Blade Bunny, Bat Bunny) - Another freebie, because these models were already rigged and ready during 2021, but they got combat animations during 2022, so I'll count them as "new"
0 New gallery enemies with H-animations
4 New Onyx H-animations (Vioreaper, Vioreaper+Larva, 2x Vioreaper, 3x Vioreaper) - more freebies here, "new" is a stretch, specially the Vioreaper+Larva is the same as the regular Vioreaper with a tiny change (even her boob movement is the same as the regular Vioreaper, despite the ridiculous nipple penetration). And the 3x Vioreaper "finished" animation was on Jan 2023
2 New FemCop H-animations (Vioreaper, 2x Vioreaper)

tl;dr
2022 had 33% more income than 2021, but produced LESS THAN HALF content (even being very generous with multiple freebies). That's called slowing down.

 

[CourierNPC]

Its often used against me, so i get confused.

Everyone else here probably does the same to somebody, and yeah... I mean, it's the internet, if you don't have two thoughts to just think what people actually say about, well, my guess is trying to get on it from time to time -- you know, don't wanna be one of those "chronically" online folks I've heard a lot.

Remember what goes into PO will be tossed over to MATM, meaning progress will be much quicker than PO as there will be less things do to start from scratch, most of the focus will be on story and gameplay. PO and MATM's story occur at roughly the same time, meaning they will crossover. So PO's story, settings, characters, game assets, programming all benefit MATM.

Okay, so, priority-wise, here goes the hierarchy of Eromancer's project with my rough estimates with a pinch of generosity. Correct me if I'm wrong:

First, Pure Onyx (2018) is finished and is an AIO package (meaning updates going forward are bug fixes and small changes). Estimate: In the late 2020-ish (My guess: Between the project's 9th and 11th anniversary, maybe even in the 8th anniversary if can keep up with the momentum)

Then, Malise and the Machine (2014), becomes a continuation/crossover story from Pure Onyx. Estimate: Somewhere in the 2030s if without development hell from Pure Onyx (My guess: Next year would be the Project's 10th anniversary, the project starts somewhere after Pure Onyx is finished ASAP or between the 11th and 12th year since the project started)

Lastly, XXXIV (A.K.A. Project XXXIV) (2020/2021). No Estimate, maybe somewhere between the development of MATM as a "side content" to put it lightly.

You know, with these big projects they've been working on since then...
I was merely a high-school tomboy when MATM was announced

 

[Yojimbo543]

Correct me if I'm wrong:

First, Pure Onyx (2018) is finished and is an AIO package (meaning updates going forward are bug fixes and small changes). Estimate: In the late 2020-ish (My guess: Between the project's 9th and 11th anniversary, maybe even in the 8th anniversary if can keep up with the momentum)

I know your post wasn't addressed to me, but let me show some more facts.
3D Pure Onyx development started on July 2019 (after 10 months of 2D Pure Onyx "development")
Currently there are a total of 10 enemies in-game (Thug, Runt, Chain, Vraxe, FemCop, Vioreaper, Larvae, Charger, Blade Bunny, Bat Bunny), out of 50+ ALREADY PLANNED enemies (and each month Eromancer increases the number).
During 2022 only 2 "new" in-game enemies were added (Blade and Bat bunnies), and only 2 new enemy H-animations were added (Vioreaper and Larvae).
So, 43 months of total development and less than 20% of the enemies, less than 20% of the H-animations and only 3 background stages. And let's not talk about the Beat 'em Up part of the game - which currently doesn't even exist. Stats that don't do anything, equipment that doesn't do anything...
At this rate, by 2029 the game won't even have 50% of the planned content. And don't forget that such "plans" keep growing.

And all that if (and that's a huge if) Patreon's censorship axe doesn't chop off even more that it already has.