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GrandPaBrowning

Active Member
Mar 7, 2021
823
1,031
That's not really true, lies can be said casually without any effort. The actual struggle is in trying to construct a narrative that seems truthful, but you don't need that to lie, Val doesn't really have one she just says most mean things she can to you. Plenty of room to lie there without any effort.
Depends on the severity of the lie in question and personality of the lyer. May be very casual, may be very hard. I am not sure how to assess Valzira in particular. We need examples of her lying and her telling truth for such assessment.

I will begin with re-asserting my position. She tells you she will screw you over if you release her if you do that. I think, it's a good example of her not caring enough to lie.

I know its not addressed to me, but I find the topic interesting, and my point is that looking "too deep" into a character like this is counter productive cause they don't act in a normal rational way. The point is that these two sisters are funny and they're hot and things like the rivalry between them shouldn't be taken too seriously, I think its mostly played for laughs.
Well, we have two ways of assessing character. We either go for specific in-story details or "normal rational way". People be people, after all, no reason to suspect outlandish behavior if its possibility were not established.

And yes, it is being played for laugh, I think.

Don't be silly, when did you ever meet a demon that cares about suffering or well being of ordinary people? The prosperity of the realm? This is not something demons ever care about, sometimes even go out to destroy in media.
Regrettably, you've missed the point and read only a setup for it.

The point was - we don't know means from ends. At the moment, we have HIS words to assess the reason behind his actions. No more, no less.

A shabby basis for assessment, don't you think?

As for why demons would help people... Have you ever heard the concept of 'fattening the herd'? Being Warhammer-fag my warp my perspective, but you'd be surprised (if you aren't aware already) by crazy overly elaborated schemes thousands of years in the making some of WH40k demons would invent. Often, just to piss each other off - or even shits and giggles.

Not the best example, perhaps, but what I'm trying to say is that some immortal supernatural entity with inhuman thinking may go for plans that on first glance would make less than no sense for a human. Because:
a) demon's logic may be unlike that of humans, with goals we would consider unreasonable or pointless;
b) demon have supernatural means to achieve their goals humans do not possess - and, therefore, struggle to plan against or take into account altogether;
c) demon can plan ahead for far longer spans of time compared to humans.
Combine all of this and you'll get someone whose plans are very non-transparent.

That is a tangent, of course. A food for thought, less so a proper argument.

Yes, that is literally the point, all of it. You boink other people, and they get kobolds, but you boink Issa and Issa doesn't get kobolds. I have no idea why you think I implied Issa is female, when I used all his male pronouns, the point is that he's like a femboy trap where he's clearly 100% male but he kind of fits the archetype of a woman, and his complex is on that he fills that role imperfectly.
Still, not every companion is meant for literal breeding. And while such jealousy and inferiority complex is a possibility, Issa may not even be intended by authors to be viewed in that cohort.

My point is more that Malice isn't eldritch, really. She's surrounded by eldritch things, but she herself is actually a mundane person. I did notice interesting connections to Mother, like how Mother is pregnant before Malice comes into the world, and then isn't, so I definitely buy into there something being strange going on with Malice but I just don't think she herself is personally an alien being, or infused with alien thought patterns, its more like something is trying to get a hold on her.
I'm not arguing against you, if that's what you mean by the way. I'm just sharing my perspective on things
Understandable. Since we already exchanged our opinions on the matter and seemingly exhausted this topic for now, I will conclude it simply. We don't know for sure, since her role in the Cataclysm is yet to be revealed - and I am sure there would be a lot to reveal later on.

Ask yourself, *why* do there have to be portents of doom? What is the nature of doom? Why does it manifest itself the way it did? "The End" is coming but why does that have to involve fucking deer people? There are so many ways you could go with this idea of the world changing and transforming and this is just an awful way to go because many people want Malice but they don't want all this other nonsense. Is it really an unreasonable thing to ask for? Look at what happens in the game, you boink so many women and none of them get any injuries, were this another game that chose to implement such consequences to your actions would you still go "man those people asking to get rid of all that gore are silly you are a dragon"? I do not think just cause that the game has said "this kid of yours is gonna fuck some shit up" that you have to go balls to the walls with crazy nonsense that the player has no control over, sure you could but why do you need to when you could have done something different? Fantasy is not constrained by reason, its a fantasy, especially a sex one, the rules can be whatever we want them to be.
Answer to "Why?" is simpler than simplicity itself. People in-story view it this way. We have mostly their perspective - IIRC, supernatural beings are more chill on the subject. Why would people view it as doomsday? That's the upturning of the world their know. It matters less whether or not world would actually end - to them, it won't be that different.

As for The Deer Question - I wholeheartedly salute authors and would wank to the Deerie-Ann just to show my support of their creative liberties. I admire and respect authors who just go ham with little regard to anyone's opinion - not to constructive criticism, just the matter of taste! Constructive criticism still should be taken into consideration, naturally. But creative process should take precedence - even if it entails betailed and behorned ex-zoophile-turned-zoo.

Also everything around Malice seems to point towards the apocalypse being bad. I mean, its the apocalypse. It's not a new age, although I wish it was, people get turned into monsters and their free will getting fucked with, this is not good by any measure. Not like you have any say in the matter either, it just happens.
Hard to tell, IMO. Point is - ATM, we saw people morph according to their personalities. Its less of "turned into monsters" and more sort of realization of their... Dreamscape? Its like they turn into dream versions of themselves. Reality thins around Malice and subjective start to overwrite objective.

Which is a concept I've seen in SCP of all places. Reality Anchors work by applying certain objectivity levels to the area. There are, however, areas with denser objectivity, where laws of other world or beings are being uphold instead of Earth laws, and, more importantly, areas with less dense objectivity, where people can just warp things into being. Sidenote: IIRC, infamous Reality Sculptors are just people with higher objectivity density or something like that.

Anyway, I may have warped or missed something, don't take my words for gospel. I just shown how such concept could work.

And yes, taken into extremes, it will fuck reality over into something too unstable to support life.

But will it with Malice? I don't know - maybe, or maybe it will stop at some point. Perhaps, the center of this anomaly, our naga, will at some point suffer its greatest effects and, for example, erase herself just by feeling sad.

Reality warping work in strange, if simple ways.

P.S. Issa is Arabic for Jesus. Take from that what you will, but I doubt it is random choice of name. Especially for a character seemingly dead-set on saving humans.
 

TowerEpik

Newbie
Feb 20, 2021
45
88
Regrettably, you've missed the point and read only a setup for it.

The point was - we don't know means from ends. At the moment, we have HIS words to assess the reason behind his actions. No more, no less.

A shabby basis for assessment, don't you think?

As for why demons would help people... Have you ever heard the concept of 'fattening the herd'? Being Warhammer-fag my warp my perspective, but you'd be surprised (if you aren't aware already) by crazy overly elaborated schemes thousands of years in the making some of WH40k demons would invent. Often, just to piss each other off - or even shits and giggles.

Not the best example, perhaps, but what I'm trying to say is that some immortal supernatural entity with inhuman thinking may go for plans that on first glance would make less than no sense for a human. Because:
a) demon's logic may be unlike that of humans, with goals we would consider unreasonable or pointless;
b) demon have supernatural means to achieve their goals humans do not possess - and, therefore, struggle to plan against or take into account altogether;
c) demon can plan ahead for far longer spans of time compared to humans.
Combine all of this and you'll get someone whose plans are very non-transparent.

That is a tangent, of course. A food for thought, less so a proper argument.
I know that we only have his actions to go off, but my point was that its hard to imagine him being possessed by a demon when he's inclined to help people and avoid harm and there being no signs of any kind of internal struggle over it. And I am familiar with 40k but this is really making huge leaps that this is all might be some sort of part of a grand plan by a demon to do something nefarious by doing good deeds, just apply Occam's Razor to this and you see it doesn't seem plausible.

Still, not every companion is meant for literal breeding. And while such jealousy and inferiority complex is a possibility, Issa may not even be intended by authors to be viewed in that cohort.
It's not about whether someone is "meant for breeding" but more whether they are "capable" of doing it, and the vast majority in the dragon's harem are, all kobolds are the spawn of his. This is something that Issa can't do, so maybe his hatred from kobolds stems partially from that.


Answer to "Why?" is simpler than simplicity itself. People in-story view it this way. We have mostly their perspective - IIRC, supernatural beings are more chill on the subject. Why would people view it as doomsday? That's the upturning of the world their know. It matters less whether or not world would actually end - to them, it won't be that different.
No, I don't think you get it. The people in-story do not write the story, the developer/writer does. We are the ones reading it. The people in the story are irrelevant when we come to ask, why did you create a world like this, what setup for, what purpose does this setting facilitate? The tropes are tools, used to achieve a goal, nothing more. Characters as they are could have been written in an innumerable amount of different ways and the objective of this line of questioning is asking yourself why did it land on specifically this outcome.

EDIT: To clarify, I mean in the sense the apocalypse is objectively a *thing* because we can see it has effects on the world, I don't mean it in the sense of it actually ending it. You can change your point of view to that the apocalypse is start of something new or whatever, but I don't mean that, I mean what does this all lead to, what can you "get" out of the world being constructed in this kind of light. So far, I haven't seen anything good.

As for The Deer Question - I wholeheartedly salute authors and would wank to the Deerie-Ann just to show my support of their creative liberties. I admire and respect authors who just go ham with little regard to anyone's opinion - not to constructive criticism, just the matter of taste! Constructive criticism still should be taken into consideration, naturally. But creative process should take precedence - even if it entails betailed and behorned ex-zoophile-turned-zoo.
Artists can do all they want, but it does not make their art good. Freedom of the artist is not directly proportional to the work's quality, but rather it simply enables the artist to do certain things that they otherwise might have not been able to. Sometimes, it leads to incredible works of art, and sometimes it leads to complete garbage, that is what it means to be free. I don't think something like that makes sense to be celebrated in the sense of being universally good, you will simply end up with a bunch of "le random" works that are bizarre but pointless and meaningless. What happened to Marie-Anne is just gross and uncalled for, sometimes you have to take a step back and reconsider what you're doing. There's a reason why the Star Wars prequels were generally considered poorly written compared to the original trilogy, it's because in the original you had people who would come and say "no" to George Lucas's poor ideas while the prequel was just him completely unfiltered which led into it being less cohesive. I want to enjoy Ravager but it's sometimes hard to when you have to deal with content you despise, that would just be better saved for its own game made for its own crowd rather than this kind of wide appeal that is frustrating at times.
 
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Lareit

Newbie
Jun 10, 2018
17
46
I'm fairly confident Issa is working for Dragon's best interest. The problem is I think it's the wrong dragon.

I hypothesize that Issa is working on something that will return his Dragon, whose fate is ambiguous.
He wants to spare humans, so that when his dragon returns it returns to a prosperous kingdom.
He wants us to not create more Kobolds, so that when his dragon returns the green kobolds have no competiton
He wants us to trust him, under the pretense he can't betray us, so that he can reveal that his loyalty is to his dragon before us(this last one is more a narrative writing trope clue)

There might be evidence in the Mine path that reduces/removes this possiblity. I haven't the heart to sacrifice Heloise so I've never explored that path.

But that is my current theory.


I also love Deerie-Anne and thought she looked fantastic and do not understand where all the criticisms come from. Even as I mourn her original character.
 

TowerEpik

Newbie
Feb 20, 2021
45
88
I'm fairly confident Issa is working for Dragon's best interest. The problem is I think it's the wrong dragon.

I hypothesize that Issa is working on something that will return his Dragon, whose fate is ambiguous.
He wants to spare humans, so that when his dragon returns it returns to a prosperous kingdom.
He wants us to not create more Kobolds, so that when his dragon returns the green kobolds have no competiton
He wants us to trust him, under the pretense he can't betray us, so that he can reveal that his loyalty is to his dragon before us(this last one is more a narrative writing trope clue)

There might be evidence in the Mine path that reduces/removes this possiblity. I haven't the heart to sacrifice Heloise so I've never explored that path.

But that is my current theory.


I also love Deerie-Anne and thought she looked fantastic and do not understand where all the criticisms come from. Even as I mourn her original character.
You really can't imagine why people don't share that fetish? You're a dragon and she's a deer, at this point it's like jacking it while watching the discovery channel. It's all up to personal preference of course, but it's not nice when those preferences get shoved onto your plate. Imagine if instead of a deer she was some kind of rotting corpse, some people are into that but you can't assume everyone is.
 

ChubbyFatBoy

Member
Aug 19, 2024
145
610
What do you mean "no warning"? That "boy turning into a bird" event has been there for actual years at this point. :KEK:
That throne room scene? That's not a warning though. The choice to have Malice or not has already long been made and over with before you even get to see it. A warning would've been along with the end is nigh. You will see mutated fuck shit. Granted I do find myself curious if this was always their direction. Or did it come later on. I originally thought it was fire and brimstone raining from the heavens, full on Armageddon type shit.

I also love Deerie-Anne and thought she looked fantastic and do not understand where all the criticisms come from. Even as I mourn her original character.
Because people aren't you and don't necessarily share your taste? Like what's hard to understand? I was apprehensive to it myself. But it ain't like it's enough to turn me off the game. Plus the internet has completely fucked up my taste in... "women" until the end of time. So I'll get used to it and whatever other fuckery they decide to make.

But the way some of y'all are confused on why others might not like it is weird.
 

TowerEpik

Newbie
Feb 20, 2021
45
88
That throne room scene? That's not a warning though. The choice to have Malice or not has already long been made and over with before you even get to see it. A warning would've been along with the end is nigh. You will see mutated fuck shit. Granted I do find myself curious if this was always their direction. Or did it come later on. I originally thought it was fire and brimstone raining from the heavens, full on Armageddon type shit.



Because people aren't you and don't necessarily share your taste? Like what's hard to understand? I was apprehensive to it myself. But it ain't like it's enough to turn me off the game. Plus the internet has completely fucked up my taste in... "women" until the end of time. So I'll get used to it and whatever other fuckery they decide to make.

But the way some of y'all are confused on why others might not like it is weird.
Even with a warning, it really sucks because you can't have Malice without all of that happening because you can be totally into her without being into all of that happens around her.
EDIT: not just Malice but Heloise too which is really sweet at least from what I have experienced.
 
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Lareit

Newbie
Jun 10, 2018
17
46
You really can't imagine why people don't share that fetish? You're a dragon and she's a deer, at this point it's like jacking it while watching the discovery channel. It's all up to personal preference of course, but it's not nice when those preferences get shoved onto your plate. Imagine if instead of a deer she was some kind of rotting corpse, some people are into that but you can't assume everyone is.
I don't have that fetish. I liked it from a narrative perspective. I play this game for the plot, unironically. For the record, there are plenty of vanilla relationships so including more fetishes is a positive thing for the most part.
 
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YouShallNotLol

Engaged Member
May 6, 2022
2,014
4,610
A warning would've been along with the end is nigh.
But it was. Literally every character that had dialogue about Cataclysm, was talking about dragon dooming everyone, and/or bringing the end of the world.
But of course players collectively ignored all the warnings, handwawing them away for one reason or another.
And now the playerbase became that "surprised pikachu face" meme manifest. :KEK:
 

TowerEpik

Newbie
Feb 20, 2021
45
88
I don't have that fetish. I liked it from a narrative perspective. I play this game for the plot, unironically. For the record, there are plenty of vanilla relationships so including more fetishes is a positive thing for the most part.
Narrative perspective?! Let's slow down a bit, you have your waifu over here, you like her character, you have grown attached to her, you want to make babies, yada yada. Now your waifu got turned into a fucking animal and you just go "huh thats pretty cool"? I have no idea what's your reasoning.
Also this game is as non-vanilla as it gets, I really have no idea what you mean there. Every relationship you have with someone is messed up in some shape or form.

But it was. Literally every character that had dialogue about Cataclysm, was talking about dragon dooming everyone, and/or bringing the end of the world.
But of course players collectively ignored all the warnings, handwawing them away for one reason or another.
And now the playerbase became that "surprised pikachu face" meme manifest. :KEK:
Yeah because when you think of apocalypse, the first thing that comes to mind is people being turned into furries. Not gates of hell opening or some kind of cosmic invasion, just more advanced bestiality. I personally can't wait until we get to the stage of the end times where everyone gets turned into turds, along with cats and dogs learning to live together in peace.
 

ChubbyFatBoy

Member
Aug 19, 2024
145
610
But it was. Literally every character that had dialogue about Cataclysm, was talking about dragon dooming everyone, and/or bringing the end of the world.
But of course players collectively ignored all the warnings, handwawing them away for one reason or another.
And now the playerbase became that "surprised pikachu face" meme manifest. :KEK:
You missed the keywords and ignored the following sentence.

A warning would've been along with the end is nigh. You will see mutated fuck shit.
That's what the topic of what you originally quoted, was talking about. The transformation and a lack of warning about it.
 
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Lareit

Newbie
Jun 10, 2018
17
46
Narrative perspective?! Let's slow down a bit, you have your waifu over here, you like her character, you have grown attached to her, you want to make babies, yada yada. Now your waifu got turned into a fucking animal and you just go "huh thats pretty cool"? I have no idea what's your reasoning.
Also this game is as non-vanilla as it gets, I really have no idea what you mean there. Every relationship you have with someone is messed up in some shape or form.


Yeah because when you think of apocalypse, the first thing that comes to mind is people being turned into furries. Not gates of hell opening or some kind of cosmic invasion, just more advanced bestiality. I personally can't wait until we get to the stage of the end times where everyone gets turned into turds, along with cats and dogs learning to live together in peace.
Yes, thats the reasoning. They went with the narrative interesting path of having the Cataclysm directly affect characters we interact with. It isn't just relegated to NPCs or There Over Yonder events. It's also not something that is set in stone. Don't want Deerie-Anne, don't have Malice. It's not as if this is a required story state. She will almost certainly not be the only casualty of the Cataclysm amongst the Harem. I'm almost 100% Certain Darja is turning into a Dragon Princess due to her abnormally long pregnancy so Darja fans out to brace for her next.
 

ChubbyFatBoy

Member
Aug 19, 2024
145
610
Even with a warning, it really sucks because you can't have Malice without all of that happening because you can be totally into her without being into all of that happens around her.
EDIT: not just Malice but Heloise too which is really sweet at least from what I have experienced.
If I'm being completely honest. The only reason I even went for and knew about Malice. Is because I saw a comment somewhere. Talking about how adorable, cute, or sweet she was. Something along those lines. So I unfortunately thought that hey. That type of talk usually stems from something wholesome. We must get some tender moments with out little one!.... welp, we know how that went. I mean I get it. We a dragon, all razing, pillaging, raping, etc. We have quick moments with her here and there.

But really? We couldn't properly cuddle our world ending, mythical danger noodle? We did have the rather tender (completely unexpected) moments with Heloise. So that was nice at least and appreciated. But no proper family time??? I get the type of game it is but come on! I'm sure very few would've minded. Hell, I bet a lot would've liked it.

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Thedude715

Active Member
Nov 6, 2017
711
1,171
I'm fairly confident Issa is working for Dragon's best interest. The problem is I think it's the wrong dragon.

I hypothesize that Issa is working on something that will return his Dragon, whose fate is ambiguous.
He wants to spare humans, so that when his dragon returns it returns to a prosperous kingdom.
He wants us to not create more Kobolds, so that when his dragon returns the green kobolds have no competiton
He wants us to trust him, under the pretense he can't betray us, so that he can reveal that his loyalty is to his dragon before us(this last one is more a narrative writing trope clue)

There might be evidence in the Mine path that reduces/removes this possiblity. I haven't the heart to sacrifice Heloise so I've never explored that path.

But that is my current theory.


I also love Deerie-Anne and thought she looked fantastic and do not understand where all the criticisms come from. Even as I mourn her original character.
Lmao look not to judge whatever you are into but you dont understand why the majority of people are not into the fact that one of the girls turns into a wierd deer thing???
 

YouShallNotLol

Engaged Member
May 6, 2022
2,014
4,610
Yeah because when you think of apocalypse, the first thing that comes to mind is people being turned into furries. Not gates of hell opening or some kind of cosmic invasion, just more advanced bestiality. I personally can't wait until we get to the stage of the end times where everyone gets turned into turds, along with cats and dogs learning to live together in peace.
You missed the keywords and ignored the following sentence.
That's what the topic of what you originally quoted, was talking about. The transformation and a lack of warning about it.
You both are obnoxiously wrong and so confident at the same time.
I repeat, from the very beginning characters were straight up telling you that there were strange monsters and reality breaking phenomena during the last cataclysm. No-one was saying typical shit like "Oh Nyo~ the demons are gonna invade and kill everyone!".
Everything was warning about strange fucky-wacky stuff happening to reality and even stranger monsters appearing into existence.
And that Bird Boy event was easily the loudest, in your face even, bit of "foreshadowing" (if you can even call it that) we could have ever got.

But you two just keep dismissing it all, and behave like I'm the crazy one for making a connection between "During the last cataclysm there were strange creatures" and "Help! My boy is turning into a bird!".
 
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YouShallNotLol

Engaged Member
May 6, 2022
2,014
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If I'm being completely honest. The only reason I even went for and knew about Malice. Is because I saw a comment somewhere. Talking about how adorable, cute, or sweet she was. Something along those lines. So I unfortunately thought that hey. That type of talk usually stems from something wholesome. We must get some tender moments with out little one!.... welp, we know how that went. I mean I get it. We a dragon, all razing, pillaging, raping, etc. We have quick moments with her here and there.

But really? We couldn't properly cuddle our world ending, mythical danger noodle? We did have the rather tender (completely unexpected) moments with Heloise. So that was nice at least and appreciated. But no proper family time??? I get the type of game it is but come on! I'm sure very few would've minded. Hell, I bet a lot would've liked it.

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Well, that's kinda your fault for believing random commenters on a forum. And kinda their fault too, for making misleading comments about Malice's content.
Most "wholesome" moments come from Heloise trying to be a proper mother. But Malice's own content was never wholesome, she was a world-ending fuck machine from the start.
 

Thedude715

Active Member
Nov 6, 2017
711
1,171
So I just finished "speedrunning" through the game a second time with liberal use of the skip key.
The conversations with the infernals where interesting but waaaaay less dialogue and content then malagar had, it also did not really lead to much other then Adeline stabbed the mc somehow? To turn them into a dragon? As part of a ritual?

Same when you confront Adeline with what you learned from the infernals, you are not really allowed to ask specifics even with the scant info you have learned.
Honestly pretty dissapointing was hoping to learn some more plot info there, also built the torture chamber this time and had the "body pillow" consort. Pretty brutal stuff.... But her dialogue was pretty funny as I just kept petting her head when she cursed me over and over.

Dont think I will try the last lair it seems to be about eldritch stuff and tentacles nooo thank you.
 
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ChubbyFatBoy

Member
Aug 19, 2024
145
610
You both are obnoxiously wrong and so confident at the same time.
I repeat, from the very beginning characters were straight up telling you that there were strange monsters and reality breaking phenomena during the last cataclysm. No-one was saying typical shit like "Oh Nyo~ the demons are gonna invade and kill everyone!".
Everything was warning about strange fucky-wacky stuff happening to reality and even stranger monsters appearing into existence.
And that Bird Boy event was easily the loudest, in your face even, bit of "foreshadowing" (if you can even call it that) we could have ever got.

But you two just keep dismissing it all, and behave like I'm the crazy one for making a connection between "During the last cataclysm there were strange creatures" and "Help! My boy is turning into a bird!".
Says the dude who likes to half-assed quote people to attempt a point. You made a dumbass comment, by using an event that came long AFTER making the choice to have Malice or not. And saying that was an example of what was to come. That's not wrong, simply a fact. You half-assed quoted what I said. To which I corrected you. No idea why you get mad because I pointed it out. Again, not wrong.

And last but not least. Saying mysterious and strange creatures showed up and reality getting weird. Does not in anyway, shape, or form. Say hey we're going to start SCP'n folks. I mean it's not like the idea of this game is unique. Where reality getting funky and opening pathways to other things where creatures pour out or some.... oh wait. Well I mean it's not like this game has a whole ass cthulu like temple that could also explain the.... oh wait. Well it's a good thing we had a detailed account of what actually happened during the last cata... oh wait.

Huh would you look at that. Seems like it could've been other things. But sure bruh, go off.
 
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