Thats kinda why I was just thinking if I should give them to the kobolds or Wolves... It was pissing me off, if you dont select the right option.. They escape from the lair RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE DRAGON and KOBOLD GUARDS.. Its fucking stupid. He should of swatted them like cochroaches. It just feels shit that you have to select the right options or poof their gone with nothing you can do about it.
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GrandPaBrowning
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I see reason in her unreasonable hatred. Lie, if not habitual - which can be the case, granted - is usually a conscious effort. It takes at least some degree of reason - and at that point she has little to none. And even if she lies - what reason there would be for HER to warn you against Issa's shenanigans? Either she does not care enough to lie anymore - or Issa's wasn't plotting against YOU.
As for trustworthiness... Yeah, LOL.
I... Don't quite get what you are saying here. I think those wasn't even your words about their conflict in-harem being pure pretend. And I commented on those words specifically.
Honestly, I don't know what to comment. Even the whole topic is vague - like, sibs do conflicts in their own unique ways. It kinda-sorta feels like you are trying to umbrella term what does not need that.
You have to agree - that one is a very specific stumble. Also, his duality - or, perhaps, it would be more apt to call it mutli-facedness - runs way deeper. Have you ever tried to give him out to the wolves? He fits in the pack. And the Eburon comments that he is a natural killer. If anything, I suspect "slutty" part being pure play-pretend to entice our Bad Dragon and not part of any real, deep duality.
So, we have someone who refers to himself as 'we' for no reason, emanated unnatural heat on death and is a killer. Makes a few clicks, doesn't it?
And what does "acting like a demon" even means? Zazi is one thing - a pretty conniving gal. Her brutes, on the other hand... Are brutes, naff said. Demons can vary in their methods - or even, perhaps, goals.
But the latter is pointless to argue about due to severe lack of anything concrete. Methods, however, is interesting point - we do not know the reason why Issa is trying to save people. We can probably safely assume he is sincere in this regard. But are his actions his ends - or means to?
As for consistency question - I judge from my point of view. I wouldn't have written that way - given that much emphasis to those details. For narration, such move is worse than waste - it is misleading. Red herring is fine sometimes, but overall that is something any narrator would wish to avoid like flood and fire.
Yes, Issa's body is magically changed, which kinda begs into existence some after-effects. But on the other hand - why? And why those specific effects with specific association?
Also, IIRC, you could kill our Bussy lad at prior points. I don't remember there being anything about acrid blood, smell of petrichor and heat emanating from his body. So, it may be something event-specific.
Sidenote: can anyone recall anything about petrichor being mentioned anywhere in game? It's SOOOO SPECIFIC it begs into question a possibility of equally specific hint. So, was it mentioned before? In Malagar's section of the game, perhaps?
Dude, I hate to bring it to you...
But he ain't no chick. And boys don't get preggers.
Why did you even bring this up?.. I mean - yes, you've made a likely theory on his reasons. May be true, totally - personally, I think it is to some degree.
But, like, I always viewed him in the cohort of different sort of companions. Like our chief kobbie, Captain or Eburon - hey, you can get laid with the Big Bad Wolf! Does that make him a part of our captives?
Not everyone you can fuck is part of your harem in this game. Heck, remember that gal in the Monastery? She doesn't become our captive. At all. We can just fuck her - or drop her and got Chanwe instead.
So, why focus on this part? It may be totally irrelevant. And I don't recall Issa being an attempt to make a female kobbie. Just a prettyfying attempt, so to speak.
I wasn't clear enough, forgive me. I was attempting to point out what you just did, but I got distracted mid-writing and forgot the thought.
'Eldritch' and 'fae' were my attempts to roughly encapsulate her mindset. The point were not some ultra-elaborate or literally unthinkable plans - she may just think in ways incomprehensible, that's what I was trying to say. I'd like to remind that, seemingly, the only one who had an actual meaningful conversation with Malice was Mother. Yes, an incomprehensible cryptic primordial being of an eldritch nature.
As for control over her powers - I agree that reality warping is side effect. I doubt she has much control over it, if any.
I think those people are silly, no offense. Game did little to warn, giving us vague portents of doom. Not that I blame the devs, but there was little way for us to properly realize the danger beforehand. "The end is nigh!" isn't a great warning, it's not specific in the slightest besides the scope of the problem. Of course, such vagueness entails nothing on waify deerification matters.
We don't even know if that's a bad ending, a doomsday or whatever else of that nature. Physics break - yet is there actual suffering? Deerie-Ann doesn't seem to suffer. Does that now-bewinged boy?
Malice is a roaring fire of Armageddon that melts the world into unrecognizable shapes - yet is it an end? A new beginning? The Great Re-Making? Is it even bad?
Elves think that way. But we don't know if they know for sure - or if their motives aren't ulterior. They will lose their top position in the world, after all. Mother seems to embrace it - I think, hard to tell. Demons do not seem to care that much, as far as I understand.
I doubt the game gave enough puzzle-pieces to get a full picture yet. Yet, we should try anyway, I think.
That's not really true, lies can be said casually without any effort. The actual struggle is in trying to construct a narrative that seems truthful, but you don't need that to lie, Val doesn't really have one she just says most mean things she can to you. Plenty of room to lie there without any effort.
I know its not addressed to me, but I find the topic interesting, and my point is that looking "too deep" into a character like this is counter productive cause they don't act in a normal rational way. The point is that these two sisters are funny and they're hot and things like the rivalry between them shouldn't be taken too seriously, I think its mostly played for laughs.
Don't be silly, when did you ever meet a demon that cares about suffering or well being of ordinary people? The prosperity of the realm? This is not something demons ever care about, sometimes even go out to destroy in media.
Yes, that is literally the point, all of it. You boink other people, and they get kobolds, but you boink Issa and Issa doesn't get kobolds. I have no idea why you think I implied Issa is female, when I used all his male pronouns, the point is that he's like a femboy trap where he's clearly 100% male but he kind of fits the archetype of a woman, and his complex is on that he fills that role imperfectly.
My point is more that Malice isn't eldritch, really. She's surrounded by eldritch things, but she herself is actually a mundane person. I did notice interesting connections to Mother, like how Mother is pregnant before Malice comes into the world, and then isn't, so I definitely buy into there something being strange going on with Malice but I just don't think she herself is personally an alien being, or infused with alien thought patterns, its more like something is trying to get a hold on her.
I'm not arguing against you, if that's what you mean by the way. I'm just sharing my perspective on things
Ask yourself, *why* do there have to be portents of doom? What is the nature of doom? Why does it manifest itself the way it did? "The End" is coming but why does that have to involve fucking deer people? There are so many ways you could go with this idea of the world changing and transforming and this is just an awful way to go because many people want Malice but they don't want all this other nonsense. Is it really an unreasonable thing to ask for? Look at what happens in the game, you boink so many women and none of them get any injuries, were this another game that chose to implement such consequences to your actions would you still go "man those people asking to get rid of all that gore are silly you are a dragon"? I do not think just cause that the game has said "this kid of yours is gonna fuck some shit up" that you have to go balls to the walls with crazy nonsense that the player has no control over, sure you could but why do you need to when you could have done something different? Fantasy is not constrained by reason, its a fantasy, especially a sex one, the rules can be whatever we want them to be.
Also everything around Malice seems to point towards the apocalypse being bad. I mean, its the apocalypse. It's not a new age, although I wish it was, people get turned into monsters and their free will getting fucked with, this is not good by any measure. Not like you have any say in the matter either, it just happens.
And for Darja to be an option as queen, you have to have gone the route that has Malagar. (One can't help wondering where he is and what he's doing if you took one of the other two lair options.)
Almost all female characters in this game are eligible for pregnancy. With a couple exceptions.
Thedude715
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Do we actually know what Issa is up too? It seems in the scene he has with Valzira he wants the naga to be born?
He hates kobolds and seems sad/annoyed if you respond that you want to make Adeline your queen and make more dragons.
But at the same time there is that scene where he goes all yandere on Naho, and I cant find any angle there that he is plotting something against us somehow. only wanting to "put her in her place" for daring to try to attack us.
He hates kobolds and seems sad/annoyed if you respond that you want to make Adeline your queen and make more dragons.
But at the same time there is that scene where he goes all yandere on Naho, and I cant find any angle there that he is plotting something against us somehow. only wanting to "put her in her place" for daring to try to attack us.
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Maybe he's just schizo, nobody really knows. I think the important part is the experiments done on him has done something to his mind, not just his body. Description of his corpse, his manner of speech (no other kobold talks as elegantly as him, not breaker, not petruk, etc), his violence towards Val who was involved in his transformation, I think it's all going to link back to that central key event, problem is what does it mean, what have they really done to him? I don't think he's plotting against the dragon specifically but he definitely has some agenda going on, maybe it's revenge, maybe he's trying to protect you in his own way against some perceived danger, naho and val are the only captives that you really can't reason with. We know the previous dragon was an asshole who's done it all to him, maybe he wants to prevent that happening again, but he never says anything directly bad about his previous master, perhaps to avoid conflict with you. He's not fully upfront about something to you, but I get the vibe its not out of maliciousness or hostility, more out of fear.
Thedude715
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Just finished the current contet, and while I made sure to dodge most of the brutal stuff that aint my cup tea. (For a game called ravager about a monster you can have a suprisingly happy/rape free playthrough)
All the characters and intrigue is a good time, the scheming wierd allies and betrayals,the slew of options you get for most scenes.
Heloise and Marie were my favorite characters for sure especially Heloise that relationship suprisingly turns really wholesome if you have the world ending kid with her lol.
Which has me in a bit of a bind because of whatever that wierd deer thing that Marie got turned into at the end is because of said kid being born. Ergo you cant have normal Marie and the sweet relationship with Helosie at the same time.
Maybe you can cure her in a future update? Who knows the game did not allow you to mercy kill her so..... The apocalypse seems to have mind altering/effecting qualities when interacting with her.
Might run through the game another time and try a different lair this time, I saw in the guide now afterwards the mine one has you sacrifice Heloise much like I did with velzira this run so might give that a go as there would be no naga then.
Darja was pretty cute (hot even after going through royalification?? Or what you would call it) tried briefly having her as both the consort and queen but pretty quickly reloaded both those choices, she really is just dumb as a doorknob while cute in small bursts for sure but more then that.... yeaahhh no.
But yes all the capturable harem members are pretty fun as they are so different. The only one I felt served no real purpose was Naho she had no real plot progression or scenes or dialogue or anything.
You capture her and she tells you to go fuck yourself, which fair enough but it never goes beyond that so meh I just gave her to Malagar for a quick one of scene and never saw her again
All the characters and intrigue is a good time, the scheming wierd allies and betrayals,the slew of options you get for most scenes.
Heloise and Marie were my favorite characters for sure especially Heloise that relationship suprisingly turns really wholesome if you have the world ending kid with her lol.
Which has me in a bit of a bind because of whatever that wierd deer thing that Marie got turned into at the end is because of said kid being born. Ergo you cant have normal Marie and the sweet relationship with Helosie at the same time.
Maybe you can cure her in a future update? Who knows the game did not allow you to mercy kill her so..... The apocalypse seems to have mind altering/effecting qualities when interacting with her.
Might run through the game another time and try a different lair this time, I saw in the guide now afterwards the mine one has you sacrifice Heloise much like I did with velzira this run so might give that a go as there would be no naga then.
Darja was pretty cute (hot even after going through royalification?? Or what you would call it) tried briefly having her as both the consort and queen but pretty quickly reloaded both those choices, she really is just dumb as a doorknob while cute in small bursts for sure but more then that.... yeaahhh no.
But yes all the capturable harem members are pretty fun as they are so different. The only one I felt served no real purpose was Naho she had no real plot progression or scenes or dialogue or anything.
You capture her and she tells you to go fuck yourself, which fair enough but it never goes beyond that so meh I just gave her to Malagar for a quick one of scene and never saw her again
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GrandPaBrowning
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Depends on the severity of the lie in question and personality of the lyer. May be very casual, may be very hard. I am not sure how to assess Valzira in particular. We need examples of her lying and her telling truth for such assessment.
I will begin with re-asserting my position. She tells you she will screw you over if you release her if you do that. I think, it's a good example of her not caring enough to lie.
Well, we have two ways of assessing character. We either go for specific in-story details or "normal rational way". People be people, after all, no reason to suspect outlandish behavior if its possibility were not established.
And yes, it is being played for laugh, I think.
Regrettably, you've missed the point and read only a setup for it.
The point was - we don't know means from ends. At the moment, we have HIS words to assess the reason behind his actions. No more, no less.
A shabby basis for assessment, don't you think?
As for why demons would help people... Have you ever heard the concept of 'fattening the herd'? Being Warhammer-fag my warp my perspective, but you'd be surprised (if you aren't aware already) by crazy overly elaborated schemes thousands of years in the making some of WH40k demons would invent. Often, just to piss each other off - or even shits and giggles.
Not the best example, perhaps, but what I'm trying to say is that some immortal supernatural entity with inhuman thinking may go for plans that on first glance would make less than no sense for a human. Because:
a) demon's logic may be unlike that of humans, with goals we would consider unreasonable or pointless;
b) demon have supernatural means to achieve their goals humans do not possess - and, therefore, struggle to plan against or take into account altogether;
c) demon can plan ahead for far longer spans of time compared to humans.
Combine all of this and you'll get someone whose plans are very non-transparent.
That is a tangent, of course. A food for thought, less so a proper argument.
Still, not every companion is meant for literal breeding. And while such jealousy and inferiority complex is a possibility, Issa may not even be intended by authors to be viewed in that cohort.
Understandable. Since we already exchanged our opinions on the matter and seemingly exhausted this topic for now, I will conclude it simply. We don't know for sure, since her role in the Cataclysm is yet to be revealed - and I am sure there would be a lot to reveal later on.
Answer to "Why?" is simpler than simplicity itself. People in-story view it this way. We have mostly their perspective - IIRC, supernatural beings are more chill on the subject. Why would people view it as doomsday? That's the upturning of the world their know. It matters less whether or not world would actually end - to them, it won't be that different.
As for The Deer Question - I wholeheartedly salute authors and would wank to the Deerie-Ann just to show my support of their creative liberties. I admire and respect authors who just go ham with little regard to anyone's opinion - not to constructive criticism, just the matter of taste! Constructive criticism still should be taken into consideration, naturally. But creative process should take precedence - even if it entails betailed and behorned ex-zoophile-turned-zoo.
Hard to tell, IMO. Point is - ATM, we saw people morph according to their personalities. Its less of "turned into monsters" and more sort of realization of their... Dreamscape? Its like they turn into dream versions of themselves. Reality thins around Malice and subjective start to overwrite objective.
Which is a concept I've seen in SCP of all places. Reality Anchors work by applying certain objectivity levels to the area. There are, however, areas with denser objectivity, where laws of other world or beings are being uphold instead of Earth laws, and, more importantly, areas with less dense objectivity, where people can just warp things into being. Sidenote: IIRC, infamous Reality Sculptors are just people with higher objectivity density or something like that.
Anyway, I may have warped or missed something, don't take my words for gospel. I just shown how such concept could work.
And yes, taken into extremes, it will fuck reality over into something too unstable to support life.
But will it with Malice? I don't know - maybe, or maybe it will stop at some point. Perhaps, the center of this anomaly, our naga, will at some point suffer its greatest effects and, for example, erase herself just by feeling sad.
Reality warping work in strange, if simple ways.
P.S. Issa is Arabic for Jesus. Take from that what you will, but I doubt it is random choice of name. Especially for a character seemingly dead-set on saving humans.
GrandPaBrowning
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I know that we only have his actions to go off, but my point was that its hard to imagine him being possessed by a demon when he's inclined to help people and avoid harm and there being no signs of any kind of internal struggle over it. And I am familiar with 40k but this is really making huge leaps that this is all might be some sort of part of a grand plan by a demon to do something nefarious by doing good deeds, just apply Occam's Razor to this and you see it doesn't seem plausible.
It's not about whether someone is "meant for breeding" but more whether they are "capable" of doing it, and the vast majority in the dragon's harem are, all kobolds are the spawn of his. This is something that Issa can't do, so maybe his hatred from kobolds stems partially from that.
No, I don't think you get it. The people in-story do not write the story, the developer/writer does. We are the ones reading it. The people in the story are irrelevant when we come to ask, why did you create a world like this, what setup for, what purpose does this setting facilitate? The tropes are tools, used to achieve a goal, nothing more. Characters as they are could have been written in an innumerable amount of different ways and the objective of this line of questioning is asking yourself why did it land on specifically this outcome.
EDIT: To clarify, I mean in the sense the apocalypse is objectively a *thing* because we can see it has effects on the world, I don't mean it in the sense of it actually ending it. You can change your point of view to that the apocalypse is start of something new or whatever, but I don't mean that, I mean what does this all lead to, what can you "get" out of the world being constructed in this kind of light. So far, I haven't seen anything good.
Artists can do all they want, but it does not make their art good. Freedom of the artist is not directly proportional to the work's quality, but rather it simply enables the artist to do certain things that they otherwise might have not been able to. Sometimes, it leads to incredible works of art, and sometimes it leads to complete garbage, that is what it means to be free. I don't think something like that makes sense to be celebrated in the sense of being universally good, you will simply end up with a bunch of "le random" works that are bizarre but pointless and meaningless. What happened to Marie-Anne is just gross and uncalled for, sometimes you have to take a step back and reconsider what you're doing. There's a reason why the Star Wars prequels were generally considered poorly written compared to the original trilogy, it's because in the original you had people who would come and say "no" to George Lucas's poor ideas while the prequel was just him completely unfiltered which led into it being less cohesive. I want to enjoy Ravager but it's sometimes hard to when you have to deal with content you despise, that would just be better saved for its own game made for its own crowd rather than this kind of wide appeal that is frustrating at times.
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What do you mean "no warning"? That "boy turning into a bird" event has been there for actual years at this point.
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I'm fairly confident Issa is working for Dragon's best interest. The problem is I think it's the wrong dragon.
I hypothesize that Issa is working on something that will return his Dragon, whose fate is ambiguous.
He wants to spare humans, so that when his dragon returns it returns to a prosperous kingdom.
He wants us to not create more Kobolds, so that when his dragon returns the green kobolds have no competiton
He wants us to trust him, under the pretense he can't betray us, so that he can reveal that his loyalty is to his dragon before us(this last one is more a narrative writing trope clue)
There might be evidence in the Mine path that reduces/removes this possiblity. I haven't the heart to sacrifice Heloise so I've never explored that path.
But that is my current theory.
I also love Deerie-Anne and thought she looked fantastic and do not understand where all the criticisms come from. Even as I mourn her original character.
I hypothesize that Issa is working on something that will return his Dragon, whose fate is ambiguous.
He wants to spare humans, so that when his dragon returns it returns to a prosperous kingdom.
He wants us to not create more Kobolds, so that when his dragon returns the green kobolds have no competiton
He wants us to trust him, under the pretense he can't betray us, so that he can reveal that his loyalty is to his dragon before us(this last one is more a narrative writing trope clue)
There might be evidence in the Mine path that reduces/removes this possiblity. I haven't the heart to sacrifice Heloise so I've never explored that path.
But that is my current theory.
I also love Deerie-Anne and thought she looked fantastic and do not understand where all the criticisms come from. Even as I mourn her original character.
You really can't imagine why people don't share that fetish? You're a dragon and she's a deer, at this point it's like jacking it while watching the discovery channel. It's all up to personal preference of course, but it's not nice when those preferences get shoved onto your plate. Imagine if instead of a deer she was some kind of rotting corpse, some people are into that but you can't assume everyone is.
ChubbyFatBoy
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That throne room scene? That's not a warning though. The choice to have Malice or not has already long been made and over with before you even get to see it. A warning would've been along with the end is nigh. You will see mutated fuck shit. Granted I do find myself curious if this was always their direction. Or did it come later on. I originally thought it was fire and brimstone raining from the heavens, full on Armageddon type shit.What do you mean "no warning"? That "boy turning into a bird" event has been there for actual years at this point.
Because people aren't you and don't necessarily share your taste? Like what's hard to understand? I was apprehensive to it myself. But it ain't like it's enough to turn me off the game. Plus the internet has completely fucked up my taste in... "women" until the end of time. So I'll get used to it and whatever other fuckery they decide to make.
But the way some of y'all are confused on why others might not like it is weird.
Even with a warning, it really sucks because you can't have Malice without all of that happening because you can be totally into her without being into all of that happens around her.
EDIT: not just Malice but Heloise too which is really sweet at least from what I have experienced.
I don't have that fetish. I liked it from a narrative perspective. I play this game for the plot, unironically. For the record, there are plenty of vanilla relationships so including more fetishes is a positive thing for the most part.
But it was. Literally every character that had dialogue about Cataclysm, was talking about dragon dooming everyone, and/or bringing the end of the world.
But of course players collectively ignored all the warnings, handwawing them away for one reason or another.
And now the playerbase became that "surprised pikachu face" meme manifest.