HTML RE:Curse Origin [v0.92] [GratuitousLove]
- Thread starter GratuitousLove
- Start date
So, tbh I didn't worry to much balancing hypnosis yet, but I'll do when I'll add requirement for it. Either by making it faster if necessary or get the requirement low enough.
I plan to add a way to add automation once you Selene "winlingly" serve you. In other word you'll make handle things in your dungeon. The firs thing planned was to let her handle defense (the game won't pause anymore if you have more than double the strenght of the attacker).
I'm just thinking about it now but I could auto use her to automate huting, (if you click a button that require prisoners but don't have any, it'll switch the task to hunting)
The thing is it might take a bit too much time to have acess to Selene assistance (you need to have her slime breeder before you start considering her so it might be a bit late)
Also I could do an upgrade for auto meditate, that you could get earlier since I suspect it's one of the most repeated click to do.
All those shouldn't be hard to do (switching back to the task you really want to do once you've automated the requirement is a bit more tricky but I might be able to do it this patch)
I'm not sure if I'll manage to do all of them, my plan is to ask my patron soon if they want me to focus on either :
-furry village
-Selene + QoL automation upgrades
-Continuation of story -> get closer to the fight against the order.
Of course no matter what I'll be able to do a bit of everything, but I might go further into some aspect of the game depending what they think should come first.
Sooo if I remember well, what you mean is, required the max mana to get enough slimes to do the prologues right? As the slime's mana cost increase and you need a certain amount.
I'll see if I can do that, I think I can reduce the cost creep of "max mana upgrade" a bit, since in the late game the upgrade will become irrelevant compared to statue/bedWarmer base mana boost so it shouldn't break late game balance. I'll try to reduce the cost creep from 1.5 to 1.4. This might be a bit too much, since the upgrade mana max require mana then it will scale a lot in the early game. But I think it's ok now that there is a bit more content, and it shouldn't impact the delicate balance of the 3-4 first loop so it's fine.
Having the slime ritual tedious to do if you don't think infest the village but easy if you think about it was the plan, but I start to realize that it's just frustrating for players that don't think about it...
I think I'll add a small hint on the ritual, even if as content gets added, it's less and less of a concern since player that don't think about it will just be able to focus on something else while spending a few slime/run in it.
I *Think* that hypnosis is fine for now. Its only limitation is when you want to get devoted slave to get more cultist/bad warmers, and since those are precious and their cost doesn't scale I don't want to make it easier to get them.
That being said I'll have to rebalance it a bit when I add requirement on sidekick roles (for instance Selene automation roles might be added this patch)
Thank you for your feedback, it allowed me to add yet another QoL to my todo list and help me make the game a bit more balanced.
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I actually meant getting the 140 base max mana required to do the transformation after you get the slimes
Ok, then I'm sure the reduction in "mana max" upgrade cost creep should peak right at that moment so it should be better now.
Future players will thank you!
Feedback after playing through 0.9b
Overall opinion
- I do enjoy what's going on with the story and selene, can't wait to continue her story on her non-puppet path.
- Having the story slowly progress and chance from event on the last loop (again, restarting the game after making selene a breeder) was a really nice touch, I do hope the game "story" can continue progressing a bit every update
- On the other hand, either I missed some events, either morgana story seems to lag a bit behind ; having to do an arm race against her every run is a bit tedious.
- The "Repeat action" toogle is a bit unclear UI wise (having
- I'm a bit more concerned about both the game balance/reward of the new upgrade/contents ; and overall the "end game" balance. More on that below.
- Some part of the game are added since a while and does not feel exploited/iterated upond yet - I'm on the "let dev cook" camp so I'm fine with it, but there is a lot of content being made in parallel, which make progress on every of these a tad slow. Tho I am happy on the progres with selene.
Bugs
- I was able to reach negative mana while hypnotizing a prisonner (with the super meditation upgrade)
- Morgana corrupting the kitsune text log show even when the game does not run (not tied ot game tick but irl time)
- When loosing a run, the kitsune text log can still show
- While demonizing morgana, the kitsune event can still show
- Demonizing morgana did turn her from "Partner" to "Mistress" ; IDK if it is intended, nor if it is tied to the line/bug above
- The game try to load
- Somehow, the mana invested in the Magic ritual is 32379.79999999992 ; it's a bit weird to have a decimal there (nb: this is a save that was loaded/dumped across multiple versions)
Feature request:
- instead of "load from text", can it be changed from "load from file" ?
- rename the save file to something like "re-curse-origin-<gamever>-<timestamp>.json"
- other use for the puppettery scroll! Now we can keep it, i would love being being able to bypass the Morgana trying to corrupt you with it could be nice ; as being able to use it on the kitsune or the cultist. Or even one of selene's friend in the tutorial.
- A The old tutorial become locked as soon as you transform selene to a breeder once. It could be nice to still have the option to scroll her while replaying the tutorial (just for a "still have access to all scene on a save" purpose)
- A text description when fucking the bed warmer! Especially wanted since I find their artwork really gorgeous.
- More use out of shapeshifting! Unless i'm wrong it only allows to drain the bed warmer's mana.
- Way to turn prisoner into breeder! Why only that poor selene can be transformed to that?
- If i'm not wrong, there is no point of changing morgana stats ; unless you try to not get enslaved. Being able to have a bit more boost by raising her would be nice.
Balance musing - made with loading my save from the previous version, which had most of the things unlocked and some high-ish stats
- Kitsune or cultist: I think which one come first is random. If cultist come first, you have a pretty hard time not being enslaved by morgana that run ; and cultist does lock you out of performing some pretty important upgrade on petitpatelin. The random order feel bad since you're at the mercy of the RNG after potentially a long run (see just below), same as waiting for an event to finally be able to do stuff (If unlocking the cultist once unlock a ritual to unlock these earlier every run, that would not be an issue, but could be a tad too strong ; see the point below)
- After clearing petipatelin, the combat power of the opponent increase BRUTALLY. With pretty high stats + the preparation to take petipatelin itself, it feel like the better end game strat is to upgrade/train selene/prepare lots of mindless/demonized slaves for combat power before capturing it. It's not really a rythm that is nice (kinda feel like you have all of the time in the world before capturing petipatelin, then you're in a race against the clock as soon as you attack it)
- It feels weird than turning selene in to a breeder give slime regularly ; while infesting petipatelin simply reduce their cost and does not do the same (it would be a tad too strong if it did both tho)
- Shapeshifting: if I understood it correctly, it only allows you to "consume" a bed warmer to gain 700 mana. At first glance, I do fail to see why the heck would I want to gain 700 mana?! Since ritual magic barely increase my max mana, I don't see any point to invest heavily to increase my mana above the requirement of the most expensive upgrade, which is 400 (unless they try to have max mana being a multiple of 25 to not waste tick of improved meditation). Sure, slime can become expensive, but I don't think surviving until the moment they cost 400 is reasonable. At second glance, they may be intended to replace meditation at end game (by creating/consuming bed warmers) ; but I'm not really sure I do enjoy the idea either (since it does not use nor contribute your meditation bonus / upgrade (that you worked on it since the start of the game), replace a core game mecanics (meditation),does not contribute to your overall progress for the next run, and it needs an HEAVY investment in max mana needed to reap their full benefit. Plus I'm not even sure in why I would want to do that heavy investment to increase my mana production: dump it in mana ritual? Way too expensive to give a little max mana on the next run. Unit to survive longer? It's feel easier/more efficient to prepare for a pack of smile and some combat unit before capturing petipatelin. I think I've run out of content for that patch anyway).
- Shapeshifting: considering the event that happen when you replay the intro after transforming selene into a breeder, I did expected that upgrade to give some combat power, but it does not seem to be the case.
- Bed warming giving 2 max mana doesn't really seems like an interesting upgrade at the point they are unlocked (again, you get them after buying the most expensive upgrade) ; i'd take a tiny bit of any stats (magic make sense, nothing can give hypnosis so there is that) instead of that. Sure, it contribute to the "fuck them to refill your mana" element.
Unit balance
- Slime cost, and everything around it. After petipatelin is conquered, the combat power per enemy unit is so high than the slime trap are EXTREMELY POWERFUL. That makes infesting petipatelin or transforming Selene into a breeder pretty strong since they allows to not run out of slimes ; however, both of these upgrade feel like dead end (no way to upgrade petipatelin, cultist, and morgana ; or no further selene development for that run). Picking only one would work great as clutch to reach further on the others path (petipatelin/morgana while selene is a breeder ; more selene content while investing petipatelin) ; but it would be great to have an
- By extension, drone is the only "useful" unit that increase in cost if you didn't pick the right upgrade that run. Everything else have a fixed cost that does not increase.
- Unit balance: They feel a bit like "fire and forget" ; construction boost and adaptation boost are invaluable when starting, then become less and less usefull the more run you do and the bigger your stats (the way you create drone and their slight combat power still help ; adaptation and constriction seem overall way less usefull in the long run). Having both of these stats help with petipatelin after you capture it could be nice.
- Masked slave vs demonized prisonner: There is some tradeoff there (slave cost 20 mana, some construction time and a prisonner to get .05 meditation and .2 combat ; while demonized prisonner cost 200 mana and a prisonner to get .5 combat ; with prisonner being "free-ish" at high enough adaptation, I think it is (on my save) faster to do 10 masked slave than 5 demonized prisonner - that is however 100% bound to the player stats)
- Docile soul vs slut soul: I do really enjoy the game giving choice between multiple upgrade per run (which is also valid with the sidekick). In that case however, I do think it is a tad imbalanced: When you need to create a tons of unit to take petipatelin (or just mindlsave them to increase your adaptation), securing the forest is pretty strong/wanted, which give easy access to some new slave (and in turn make the docile soul a tad weak). Especially when docile soul seems pretty random in it effect (I had a run when the villager reached a pretty hefty power before they captured a single prisonner). Slut soul giving more mana regeneration and unlocking masked selene feel like the prefered choice IMO.
Petipatelin's balance:
- Overall, I do find the "reward" behind petipatelin, and how it work a bit underwhelming : nothing you can gain there help directly with surviving the order's attack, which become really brutal at that point.
- It does unlock Morgana, which is content and really nice! Just for that it's worth it, but the petipatelin's raising minigame, and the "event" it give pale in comparison.
- As said above, I don't think your stat matter there (while construction/adaptation could be used for various petipatelin's action)
- Aside from that... Statuette's mana seems a bit too weak to counterbalance your hypnosis use, and overall way to weak compared meditation. With passive mana consumption, it would be more appealing ; but until that is the case, the Infamy cost make them not super appealing.
- I did not even try to build a statue nor a prison. The first have a big infamy cost + the same problem of "why would I want more max mana than the biggest upgrade" ; the second have a "if nothing can give me more than 5 prisonner at the same time and I can capture these for cheap, why would I want to increase my capacity if it cannot unlock new things or help me increase my survivability"
- Having to balance between strength & infamy is okay ; however I'm not sure the game explain the production is tied to loyalty and the lowest of strength or infamy.
- Overall, I feel like i'm increasing petipatelin's stats to gain stone faster to gain more petipatelin stats - which does not help me in my survival goal at all, nor does seems to unlock any event, so I'm encourage to ingore it (a lower level player may find the max mana interesting, but I doubt they'll be able to survive long enough to unlock it or make use of it)
- Being able to get prisonner from petipatelin (or better, having passive generation of masked slave, mindless slaves, demon, or slimes (breeding den hidden in petipatelin anyone?) or anything that can pump the player stats) would make the upgrade there more appealing IMO.
Overall opinion
- I do enjoy what's going on with the story and selene, can't wait to continue her story on her non-puppet path.
- Having the story slowly progress and chance from event on the last loop (again, restarting the game after making selene a breeder) was a really nice touch, I do hope the game "story" can continue progressing a bit every update
- On the other hand, either I missed some events, either morgana story seems to lag a bit behind ; having to do an arm race against her every run is a bit tedious.
- The "Repeat action" toogle is a bit unclear UI wise (having
Auto Repeat action: ON and Auto Repeat action: OFF may be cleaner on what it does) ; but that small hurdle aside, it's THE BEST FEATURE IN AGE. Really great to be able to use that to only tigger a single tick of something or stop after current tick! Thanks for that- I'm a bit more concerned about both the game balance/reward of the new upgrade/contents ; and overall the "end game" balance. More on that below.
- Some part of the game are added since a while and does not feel exploited/iterated upond yet - I'm on the "let dev cook" camp so I'm fine with it, but there is a lot of content being made in parallel, which make progress on every of these a tad slow. Tho I am happy on the progres with selene.
Bugs
- I was able to reach negative mana while hypnotizing a prisonner (with the super meditation upgrade)
- Morgana corrupting the kitsune text log show even when the game does not run (not tied ot game tick but irl time)
- When loosing a run, the kitsune text log can still show
- While demonizing morgana, the kitsune event can still show
- Demonizing morgana did turn her from "Partner" to "Mistress" ; IDK if it is intended, nor if it is tied to the line/bug above
- The game try to load
morgana/demon/face.png while the file is called Face.png- Somehow, the mana invested in the Magic ritual is 32379.79999999992 ; it's a bit weird to have a decimal there (nb: this is a save that was loaded/dumped across multiple versions)
Feature request:
- instead of "load from text", can it be changed from "load from file" ?
- rename the save file to something like "re-curse-origin-<gamever>-<timestamp>.json"
- other use for the puppettery scroll! Now we can keep it, i would love being being able to bypass the Morgana trying to corrupt you with it could be nice ; as being able to use it on the kitsune or the cultist. Or even one of selene's friend in the tutorial.
- A The old tutorial become locked as soon as you transform selene to a breeder once. It could be nice to still have the option to scroll her while replaying the tutorial (just for a "still have access to all scene on a save" purpose)
- A text description when fucking the bed warmer! Especially wanted since I find their artwork really gorgeous.
- More use out of shapeshifting! Unless i'm wrong it only allows to drain the bed warmer's mana.
- Way to turn prisoner into breeder! Why only that poor selene can be transformed to that?
- If i'm not wrong, there is no point of changing morgana stats ; unless you try to not get enslaved. Being able to have a bit more boost by raising her would be nice.
Balance musing - made with loading my save from the previous version, which had most of the things unlocked and some high-ish stats
- Kitsune or cultist: I think which one come first is random. If cultist come first, you have a pretty hard time not being enslaved by morgana that run ; and cultist does lock you out of performing some pretty important upgrade on petitpatelin. The random order feel bad since you're at the mercy of the RNG after potentially a long run (see just below), same as waiting for an event to finally be able to do stuff (If unlocking the cultist once unlock a ritual to unlock these earlier every run, that would not be an issue, but could be a tad too strong ; see the point below)
- After clearing petipatelin, the combat power of the opponent increase BRUTALLY. With pretty high stats + the preparation to take petipatelin itself, it feel like the better end game strat is to upgrade/train selene/prepare lots of mindless/demonized slaves for combat power before capturing it. It's not really a rythm that is nice (kinda feel like you have all of the time in the world before capturing petipatelin, then you're in a race against the clock as soon as you attack it)
- It feels weird than turning selene in to a breeder give slime regularly ; while infesting petipatelin simply reduce their cost and does not do the same (it would be a tad too strong if it did both tho)
- Shapeshifting: if I understood it correctly, it only allows you to "consume" a bed warmer to gain 700 mana. At first glance, I do fail to see why the heck would I want to gain 700 mana?! Since ritual magic barely increase my max mana, I don't see any point to invest heavily to increase my mana above the requirement of the most expensive upgrade, which is 400 (unless they try to have max mana being a multiple of 25 to not waste tick of improved meditation). Sure, slime can become expensive, but I don't think surviving until the moment they cost 400 is reasonable. At second glance, they may be intended to replace meditation at end game (by creating/consuming bed warmers) ; but I'm not really sure I do enjoy the idea either (since it does not use nor contribute your meditation bonus / upgrade (that you worked on it since the start of the game), replace a core game mecanics (meditation),does not contribute to your overall progress for the next run, and it needs an HEAVY investment in max mana needed to reap their full benefit. Plus I'm not even sure in why I would want to do that heavy investment to increase my mana production: dump it in mana ritual? Way too expensive to give a little max mana on the next run. Unit to survive longer? It's feel easier/more efficient to prepare for a pack of smile and some combat unit before capturing petipatelin. I think I've run out of content for that patch anyway).
- Shapeshifting: considering the event that happen when you replay the intro after transforming selene into a breeder, I did expected that upgrade to give some combat power, but it does not seem to be the case.
- Bed warming giving 2 max mana doesn't really seems like an interesting upgrade at the point they are unlocked (again, you get them after buying the most expensive upgrade) ; i'd take a tiny bit of any stats (magic make sense, nothing can give hypnosis so there is that) instead of that. Sure, it contribute to the "fuck them to refill your mana" element.
Unit balance
- Slime cost, and everything around it. After petipatelin is conquered, the combat power per enemy unit is so high than the slime trap are EXTREMELY POWERFUL. That makes infesting petipatelin or transforming Selene into a breeder pretty strong since they allows to not run out of slimes ; however, both of these upgrade feel like dead end (no way to upgrade petipatelin, cultist, and morgana ; or no further selene development for that run). Picking only one would work great as clutch to reach further on the others path (petipatelin/morgana while selene is a breeder ; more selene content while investing petipatelin) ; but it would be great to have an
- By extension, drone is the only "useful" unit that increase in cost if you didn't pick the right upgrade that run. Everything else have a fixed cost that does not increase.
- Unit balance: They feel a bit like "fire and forget" ; construction boost and adaptation boost are invaluable when starting, then become less and less usefull the more run you do and the bigger your stats (the way you create drone and their slight combat power still help ; adaptation and constriction seem overall way less usefull in the long run). Having both of these stats help with petipatelin after you capture it could be nice.
- Masked slave vs demonized prisonner: There is some tradeoff there (slave cost 20 mana, some construction time and a prisonner to get .05 meditation and .2 combat ; while demonized prisonner cost 200 mana and a prisonner to get .5 combat ; with prisonner being "free-ish" at high enough adaptation, I think it is (on my save) faster to do 10 masked slave than 5 demonized prisonner - that is however 100% bound to the player stats)
- Docile soul vs slut soul: I do really enjoy the game giving choice between multiple upgrade per run (which is also valid with the sidekick). In that case however, I do think it is a tad imbalanced: When you need to create a tons of unit to take petipatelin (or just mindlsave them to increase your adaptation), securing the forest is pretty strong/wanted, which give easy access to some new slave (and in turn make the docile soul a tad weak). Especially when docile soul seems pretty random in it effect (I had a run when the villager reached a pretty hefty power before they captured a single prisonner). Slut soul giving more mana regeneration and unlocking masked selene feel like the prefered choice IMO.
Petipatelin's balance:
- Overall, I do find the "reward" behind petipatelin, and how it work a bit underwhelming : nothing you can gain there help directly with surviving the order's attack, which become really brutal at that point.
- It does unlock Morgana, which is content and really nice! Just for that it's worth it, but the petipatelin's raising minigame, and the "event" it give pale in comparison.
- As said above, I don't think your stat matter there (while construction/adaptation could be used for various petipatelin's action)
- Aside from that... Statuette's mana seems a bit too weak to counterbalance your hypnosis use, and overall way to weak compared meditation. With passive mana consumption, it would be more appealing ; but until that is the case, the Infamy cost make them not super appealing.
- I did not even try to build a statue nor a prison. The first have a big infamy cost + the same problem of "why would I want more max mana than the biggest upgrade" ; the second have a "if nothing can give me more than 5 prisonner at the same time and I can capture these for cheap, why would I want to increase my capacity if it cannot unlock new things or help me increase my survivability"
- Having to balance between strength & infamy is okay ; however I'm not sure the game explain the production is tied to loyalty and the lowest of strength or infamy.
- Overall, I feel like i'm increasing petipatelin's stats to gain stone faster to gain more petipatelin stats - which does not help me in my survival goal at all, nor does seems to unlock any event, so I'm encourage to ingore it (a lower level player may find the max mana interesting, but I doubt they'll be able to survive long enough to unlock it or make use of it)
- Being able to get prisonner from petipatelin (or better, having passive generation of masked slave, mindless slaves, demon, or slimes (breeding den hidden in petipatelin anyone?) or anything that can pump the player stats) would make the upgrade there more appealing IMO.
Hem lots of things to do, i'll try to adress them one by one.
Overall opinion :
-You'll be happy to know that Selene non puppet path will be receive most love from now on, the goal was to get all the "hate" path first as the MC resent her, and progressively get nicer ones after a while.
-Changing early story is fun, but it's not easy to do, not only it's lots of work, but as you already noticed, you either have to lock out part of the game or have to clutter the UI a lot/Add more work to make scene replayable. But I'll continue the story for sure, next update will add a bit about the MC plan to eventualy be able to attack the order and not just suffer from their attack.
-I understand that the arm race with Morgana is a bit tedious, I plan to add another "checkpoint" like I did when I allowed the player to skip prologue. I want to make another later start in which Morgana and the player doesn't forget anything, the problem is I don't know yet how I can handle that without removing the ability from the player to change their mind about Morgana's fate. If Morgana remembers, how can we justify having runs with the MC being a slave a master or an equal every loop. Doesn't makes sense. I think my best bet is to lock out part of the game. But that's a bit sad as prople might want to replay either the sub or dom scene after that point.
-I changed the repeart action button text thank you for your feedback.
-I get it, but that's unlikely to change. Inspiration is a big factor in how fast I work. Allowing me to juggle between different task alow me to continue one while the other are paused so I'm always working somwhat efficiently. I could focus more on one aspect of the game at the time but that would be at the cost of overall progression.
Bugs :
-Mana shouldn't go negative when hypnotizing slave anymore thank you.
-kitsune IRL time and after loss: This one is trickier, I'll just add it TODO list for now.
-You should indeed not end as a slave if you treat Morgana as your equal before demonizing her. I changed the text but forgot to change the button effect. It is now fixed.
-Renamed the file to face.png for more naming consistency and fixing the issue thank you.
-Fixed the ritual mana it'll only show integer now.
Feature :
-Load from file : I *Think* I did it, I only test quickly didn't really check if the save was perfectly fine but I don't know why it wouldn't.
-I changed the save file so it adds a timeStamp, but I dont really want to add the version as it would force me to update it everytime I update the game and I know I'll forget
Ok I pause for now, I'll continue answering your message later sorry that was too much to do in one go
.My main problem with morgana is, from the moment she spawn, I feel like I have to spend most of my action to tweak her stats to not get brainwashed (that may be totally wrong and I may have way more margin than I expect, the game is not that clear on that point)
Maybe i'm 100% wrong with that and there is way more leeway than I expect - but I'm pretty sure I couldn't really do anything against being brainwashed on a loop when the cultist decided to show before the kitsune.
I was thinking more of ways to only allows the player to remember what happen with morgana in the previous run ; which in turn give more choice on how you handle her.
As stated earlier, the scroll of pupettery might be of use here (force her to remove her brainwashing/order), another option would be a ritual to "save" some memory, which in turn could give the player the option to re-read these memory in another time loot (which would make it a more opt-in for the player to "which memory they want to recall, and in turn which relationship they want with morgana")
On that note, I wonder/feel like it would make some sense for morgana to release her "you'll forget me" spell after you made truce with her.
The 0.9b allows you to "Download save file" (which allow to save a file - which is nice) ; however the reverse does not exist (at least I do not see a prompt to read the save file, the user still have to copy/paste it in the text box, I think)
No problem, thanks for taking the time to answer!Ok I pause for now, I'll continue answering your message later sorry that was too much to do in one go
(And don't feel pressured to reply to every little thing - even if the reply are nice. I'll be happy enough as long as the feedback is read and taken into account - even if said account is a "nah that's not the kind of game I wanna make, nothing to change here")
Ok, part 2 :
- Yeah, the scroll being in your inventory is on purpose I wanted to add uses for pupettry scroll but didn't how to yet. But you gave me a couple good suggestion. I'll probably implement using it on Morgana with the immediate effect of decreasing her will at least enough for partner, (and will be especialy usefull if you want her as your slave later). Kitsune could be fun, but I doubt I'll do it, it would require SOOOO much work to rewrite all her scenes. Selene/friend cultist I don't know, if I want to add a new sidekick maybe, but I already a plan for a new sidekick so I doubt I'll have enough time to work on that.
-Yeah old tutorial... I think at some point I should add a galery to replay scenes, but it's really a lot of work to implement so IDK if I'll do it honestly.
-A text description when fucking the bed warmer : I've added that to the todolist writing is what I find the hardest that being said so IDK when I'll do it.
- More use out of shapeshifting! The upgrade should also be a requirement to take demon form to fight Selene's ally if you ally Selene
- Way to turn prisoner into breeder! Why only that poor selene can be transformed to that? Because the MC tried on weaker human but they died after some time(and also because it convienently prevent you from having an overpowered source of slime that are extremely strong as they can be used in trap)
- Morgana stats : Yeah no point in raising them for now, later I'll unlock a few things with that, but no yet.
Balance :
-Maybe I'll change the randomness of event or make them happen sooner if you have enough of some value I'll choose to estimate your progress. I'll add it to TODO list
-Too easy -> too hard after you capture Petipatelin might be a problem. But it's not one that is easy to solve. I don't know how I'll handle it. Maybe I make the attack stronger after X wave if the player reach X personal stats, to prevent player for abusing that too much. Or maybe I'll add some kind of time limit to an event which require you to have Petipatelin unlocked to fix it before you die (I planned to have the order kill the player with a light beam when they go to the order before certain requirements, maybe I could also trigger it after X days and since the requirement will require stone then acquiring Petitpatelin earlier mean you have more time to gather the stone required)
-shapshifting isn't only for bedwarmer, it also allows you to ally with Selene. The bedwarmer doesn't give you 700 mana, it gives 50*bedwarmer * amount of attack wave since the last time you used a bedwarmer. In other word, if you have one, you can regain 50 mana/attack, if you fuck them every single fight. It's not huge but I think it might add up in the late game especialy if you reach big amount of statue + bedwarmer to have a high enough manaMax. And I plan to have spell/upgrades that will require you to have enough maxMana.
-ShapeShifting doesn't give combat power, I don't know if it should. I could have it to give combat power based by spending mana. For instance, you could spend all your mana to fight the order when you were about to loose. It might be too much work for the benefit but I'll keep it in TODO list and see if I keep/discard the upgrade.
-Bedwarmer gives 2 max mana. It doesn't looks like a lot but it's increased by the engraving % bonus. Also and this is important, this is low on purpose, because while the weakest max mana upgrade for now, it's the only one that have a cost scaling linearly (all other cost are exponential). I'm slowly paving the game to have different source of power become relevant at different stage of the game for different reasons. That's my way of adding a little bit of strategy to the game.
Balance Unit:
-Slime cost : I plan to have a Petipatelin upgrade to generate slime over time at the cost of loyalty. Slime are really strong, and my initial plan was to have way to "grind" stats by making long run with ex Selene breeder or slime pit Petipatelin but are dead end. And other path that are harder "capture Petipatelin" but allow you to see more content.
-This will also limit the cost increase of drones.
-Construction is the only skill that allow to increase mana%. In other word the higher the skill, the higher the cost of upgrade (and I'll add powerfull spell later, even if I'm not sure they'll have a manaMax requirement or if you'll be able to charge them over time). So no it won't be useless late game. Maybe I'll add construction time on Petipatelin's unique building when I introduce them.
Adaptation is your best source of prisoners early game, hunting prisoners time increase exponentially(even if it's slow at start).
-Demonized cost less prisoners, and as I said, prisoners "time cost" increase exponentially, which mean that if you hunt to much to make cheap masked slaves, there won't be that many remaining to hunt in the forest.
-SlutSoul selection is much better for most of the game. But I think in the late game docileSoule will be a source of prisoners that doesn't increase in cost unlike hunting prisoner. Besides it scale with the amount of masked slaves. (If I didn't fail my math it should be on average 10% of your masked slave with a normal distribution capped by number of enemies/empty cells). Which mean that at some point it should theorically end up becoming better (I might have to balance it better but it's too early to worry I think).
Petipatelin's balance :
-PetiPatelin's reward is indeed a bit small for now (increase max mana not that usefull for now, increase max cell not that usefull unless you cap the amount of slaves with docile Soul selection I'm not sure it's possible in the game yet didn't test it for now)
The thing is Petipatelin will mostly be a requirement to "win" the game rather than a boost to your stats.
-Using construction/adaptation skill in Petipatelin is work, but maybe I'll add it, I'll see
-Well mana from statuette increase with engraving + maxMana will be a bottleneck in the future.
-Manamax will have more use later, infamy is only a problem if it's higher than your defenses and for the cell, as I said you're supposed to get an average of 10% of your maskedSlave as prisonners with docileSoul selection but capped by empty cells.
-Added TODO explain loyalty a bit better. I'll have to think about it.
-Yep Petitpatelin uses will come in future update, for now it's not exactly super usefull except if you're able to survive long enough for docileSoul selection upgrade to matter.
-Later there will be a unique building that produce drone over time at petiPatelin, not sure how I'll handle that.
Wow I did it! Took longer than expected but I guess it's to be expected as I tried to fix anything that could be fixed immediatly before finishing my answer.
Thank you for your feedback again. Helped me improved the game a bit and put other improvement to my TODO list for later.
-For now the easiest way to not end up Morgana's slave, is just to give her the kitsune. That should be enough. It won't be enough to get her to be her slave when implemented that being said. So there will be some work here. I might have to change event order to not be random that being said.
-Player remember but not Morgana would me rewrite all the scene with her, I'm not sure I'd rather spend this time in more content and add another optionnal skip like I did in prologue.
-My plan is to allow the player to increase Morgana's demon power and when she reach a treshold she end up being able to shapshift too, becoming basically the player's equal, and then lock her in the 'Slave/mistress/equal route" + allowing her and the player to remember when the player do a skip like the prologue... Maybe I'll make them come to an agreement, and breaking the agreement will force the player to forget which lead to no more "prologue skip+" and the ability to redo other routes? Idk I'll have to think about it.
-What I meant by "I *think* I did it" was I did it on my end while answering your message, but not 100% sure if it works yet. But it should be there next update.
At least for the dom/equal path(s) morgana start could be where if you have enough hypno stat that you can hypnotize memories into her.
Even in current late game content, the slut soul mana bonus easily out weighs the docile soul's prisioner snagging. Even after grabbing hundreds of people from the forest, with using enough brainwashed people, I snag new prisoners faster than I can swap tabs to throw masks on them. At that point, it's refilling mana that takes the longest.
Simply put, the extra mana modifier from the slut masks makes a huge difference in how fast you recover mana where as the docile mask does a function that costs basically no time anyways so long as you stick in a decent amount of drained minions. Nothing else provides an army modifier for your mana regen an without that you're pretty well crippled as far as mana goes.
I think I hit 3325 (wave 21) in my last run before swapping to Petipaelin, I don't remember which wave I last took in there though. I recall hitting 1k fighting power though.
I'll give docile souls a run later just to see how much of a difference there is, but without the juice up mana rate, I'm not expecting to get nearly as far.
EDIT:
I just did a partial run for both and the speed difference is very noticeable, slut masks just enables everything else while the docile masks save you maybe a few ticks of captured people each combat (which is completely out paced by slut being able to race up the mana upgrades make more masks faster and produce plenty of mindless to cover adaptation allowing for much better early and late game advancement.
By fight 9 I have slut masks proucing nearly 4x time mana and already giving more combat power than docile did for round 10.
Docile masks need a little extra something that allows for them to match slut masks better. Perhaps something like with the slime traps that completely disable units, that would also make them much better in late game where disabling one enemy unit means taking out 30+ of their fighting power.
Also, what about rewarding players who push PetiPatelin early? I Just did a speed run and got there before round 4, but right now there's no point in pushing for it before you're about to die to very large numbers. Putting in a point when the holy order laser beams you won't really change anything but the exact cut off point you have to grind up to in preperation for the next phase.
Even in current late game content, the slut soul mana bonus easily out weighs the docile soul's prisioner snagging. Even after grabbing hundreds of people from the forest, with using enough brainwashed people, I snag new prisoners faster than I can swap tabs to throw masks on them. At that point, it's refilling mana that takes the longest.
Simply put, the extra mana modifier from the slut masks makes a huge difference in how fast you recover mana where as the docile mask does a function that costs basically no time anyways so long as you stick in a decent amount of drained minions. Nothing else provides an army modifier for your mana regen an without that you're pretty well crippled as far as mana goes.
I think I hit 3325 (wave 21) in my last run before swapping to Petipaelin, I don't remember which wave I last took in there though. I recall hitting 1k fighting power though.
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I'll give docile souls a run later just to see how much of a difference there is, but without the juice up mana rate, I'm not expecting to get nearly as far.
EDIT:
I just did a partial run for both and the speed difference is very noticeable, slut masks just enables everything else while the docile masks save you maybe a few ticks of captured people each combat (which is completely out paced by slut being able to race up the mana upgrades make more masks faster and produce plenty of mindless to cover adaptation allowing for much better early and late game advancement.
By fight 9 I have slut masks proucing nearly 4x time mana and already giving more combat power than docile did for round 10.
Docile masks need a little extra something that allows for them to match slut masks better. Perhaps something like with the slime traps that completely disable units, that would also make them much better in late game where disabling one enemy unit means taking out 30+ of their fighting power.
Also, what about rewarding players who push PetiPatelin early? I Just did a speed run and got there before round 4, but right now there's no point in pushing for it before you're about to die to very large numbers. Putting in a point when the holy order laser beams you won't really change anything but the exact cut off point you have to grind up to in preperation for the next phase.
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I may have to change docile soul but I'm not sure for 2 reason :
Even if it's faster now, the fact it's the only way to capture prisoners without diminushing return (and even increasing in efficiency) will make them stronger at some point no matter what.
The main reason slut soul selection is overpowered is because it's the only meditation boost source, but that could change if I add more slaves.
For sure I'll have to look at that, but maybe I shouldn't bother too much until I see how the balance is once I added slaves that increase magic skills.
Hmmm that being said I think I'll try double the amount of prisoners captured. It should buff it early without nerfing it late game because anyway what will limit you in the late game is more likely to be the amount of docile masked but your cell limit.
This would help them be a bit stronger for now without impacting the late game too much. I'll try X2 and see if it breaks things.
The idea with the laser beam was that to protect from it, you'd need a shrine (I can't find a perfect name for a building I'd use to cas big spell with the help of my follower), that would cost huge amount of stone and some wood. And to get enough stone fast enough, you'd have to capture Petipatelin sooner rather than later. But maybe I should think of a reward for early Petipatelin in the meantime.
Update on the kitsune timing: while not doing anything with morgana after capturing petipatelin (was busy masking some human for... reasons) I had cultist event first, then kitsune event - I was able to gift kit' to morgana before she totally corrupted me, even if the text message made me feel I was close to done before the kitsune showed her pretty tail. Seems like it was just me being stressed out by the logs. (having any numerical value shown on the corruption would remove the stress out of it but make it way more managable for players - I'm not sure if that would be a good or bad update. In any case, I now know I can just ignore morgana until the kitsune pop, which is great!)
(IDK if stats contribute to anything here, in which case 11.7 base hypnosis, up to 111.1 magic (yea, I was busy making masked...), 15.8 adaptation.)
Aww, poor selene. All of her training is backfiring hard...
Putting that aisde, I do agree slime trap is really strong ; but only as strong as the enemy's unit.
At the start of the game when you really don't have any power, that's your main/only source of damage. When you're trying to reach 100 power to capture petipatelin, they are not really relevant anymore ; and they become invaluable again after the capture ("Ima sorry? I needed 100 power, some of my unit got destroyed in the process, and now each opponent require 30 strength?!?!")
I do agree in their current stats, slime generation is really strong (it did help help a lot in the run i tried to transform selene into a breeder), but the generation would be more fine as long as the slime trap is made tamer:
IIRC, it it somewhat established in universe than the person of the order does not work alone (selene and her camarade - they would not attack the dungeon alone, right?) - in that case it would be pretty easy to divide the same power across multiple unit (like, 3 unit of 10 power instead of 1 unit of 30 power). That would tremendously nerf the slime trap while still making these usefull, and by extension make the slime generation less broken.
(limiting the number of slime that can be built is an option too - we already have a limit of cells right?)
As long as the countdown for the beam start at the end of the run (and not when you capture petipatelin), that would help indeed! But not with the stated problem: if the run end at a finite amount of turn after you start the game, that would temporarly "solve" most of the overpowered issues. Slime trap OP and able to make you survive to wave 1000+? not an issue anymore if you get sunbeamed wave 100! - Extra cookie point if the wave timer right before the laser is extra long (and having character wonder why the order stopped attacking, or potentially blocked all road around your dungeon)
As a player, I do think moving the "have to get enough power to survive the next wave" to "have to achieve something before that deadline" is ok, at the same of the day it's the same pressure of having to turn some meaningfull progress before a looming deadine (a strong wave or an impeding doom).
That does not adress the main issue of "suddenly the wave become really brutal, and I don't feel like the tools I have scale well enough to be worth a shot to survive for a long time" - sure I could spend all my time/mana capturing/creating new unit, but I fear that's just stalling for time without having anything I can invest time/resource in (with the current game content, THAT IS FINE, the game does not really throw you new objective/goal after petipatelin's capture). Investing in slime generator does sounds like a stronger option in that regard, but that lock you out of some progress.
Surviving for some time while having side objective to do (enough stone, ramping up the stone production, unlocking a new ritual or IDK) does sound more than achievable.
That's way more appealing than what I undestood of them
(I do assume the only time I checked them they were on wave 35).I may request a change on in game description then!
That make me think it may work as a "get ouf of jail" card you have to recharge after it landed : like, if X mana equals 1 power, you could invest mana in a "demon reserve ritual", and every time you would be loosing when you get attacked, drain [missing power] * X from your reserve, if it's still > 0, you survive!
(draining the mana directly from your current mana instead of a ritual could be a nice option (that encourage you to keep some mana and to increase your mana pool) ; having a form of cooldown (or having to repay/recreate unit) to be able ot trigger that transformation would be nice too!)
Isn't the cost of capturing new prisonner exponential ? (at least I throught I saw that below) - if yes it only become linear with some specific upgrade (the docile soul) that is a bit too unreliable for my taste (at least up to that point of the story).
And in the first place, most of these scaling can be reduced with training, making specific units, or training selene, that may not be the case at other point of the game, but prisonner are super fast and cheap to get in my run and I think i'd die by the wave before it start to get an issue (I did not really try to go as far as I can tho)
That being said, kudo for trying to have alternative source of the same power!
Having thing (anything - be the shapeshifting or any spell) scaling on max mana would give a reason to get more mana than the cost of the highest upgrade, so it may increase build variety / run objective a bit (which is nice)
That's great! And kinda what I hoped for petipatelin.
However, if some ressource from it are required to "win" later, it feel even worse to investe in mana/cell upgrade in petipatelin instead of focusing on the ressource you need to "win".
As in, if you need stone to "win", I do not want to consume these from anything else than increasing my stone production.
However, if the required ressource is, let's say, a crystal that represent 1% of your stone production - or any ressource that is not stone generated in time by petipatelin (cultist, prayer for a dark lord, or I have no clue what else you could get there), then stone become a ressource you're free to use to improve your stats, which is both nice (since it free some ressource ot use on any update) and not that exciting (since, in the current state of the game, other update are not that appealing - tho as you said, future upgrade will likely make them shine a bit more brightly)
You're welcome! I hope that message is not turning too long again
And thanks you for your reply, my goal when giving feedback is trying to make the game better, so it's a great feeling to know some of it was valuable!
Oh, this explain that! I did understood it as "I think I added it in the previous release"!
That explain why I did find that upgrade totally underwhelming : it's available "pretty early" in my runs, so at that point it is likely to on average give 0 prisonner : I see more use of it at later game, but I'm not sure the game really convey how it does work.
That does mean without any investment in petipatelin, it require 50 masked slave to reach it full power, which is already a bit of a time investment.
That being said, I did a quick test with a ~16 total adaptation, I THINK I do indeed see the rate of prisonner being captured slow down a bit after making 31 masked slave (~34 if I count the one that died while taking petipatelin and remove the 3 free at the start), so indeed I do see the use later in the game. It's still adequately fast, and If it slow down anymore I could increase my adaptation by torturing selene a bit or making some mindless slave.
- tho at ~50 slave, it is still way slower to make a mask than to capture a new slave (12.8 construction 15.8 adaptation - didn't boost any of these aside from puppeting selene) so I feel like I have a lot of leeway to increase my army before needing the gentle soul.
At that point 5 prisonner amount to ~5 threat, which is definitively less strong than the meditation bonus.
That does sounds like a nice upgrade! As you said the upgrade itself is capped by the amount of cells ; and that would make them way more appealing/useful early game/with lower adaptation (which is also the moment new player may try the upgrade)
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ritual room? warding glyphs/runes? obelisk of obstinacy? profane temple? barrier stones?
How many slimes does breeder selena produce between attacks? I haven't tried breeder selena since after unlocking her since her follower bonuses flatline and I prefer to now hypnotize her for sweet sweet multipliers later on in the game.
I like temple, I think i'll go for temple.
I think you get more or less one slime per attack. I may change this value once you have the petiPatelin's building that produce slime/drone (I'm not sure what it'll produce yet) I'll have to think about it.
Disclaimer: I was focusing on other things so take my answer with a lot of salt, but IIRC selena gave around two slime per wave. It definitively felt like more than one.
And if I'm not wrong again, transforming her to a breeder unlock a different starter that will be expanded on on future update, so it's worth doing at least once.
It's always worth to do at least one run to unlock things just to have them unlocked. That being said, after that one run, making her a breeder just isn't worth it, on the long run, if you focus on hypnotizing her, she gives a nice hefty +.2 to +.9 follower bonus modifier, and since she's the only follower at the moment, that makes her modifier even more relatively powerful than anything else since everything else grows over time. Even on the short term without access to hypnosis she's more useful left alone or with a slut mask. The slime traps just simply don't compare to the power of exponential growth so often enough it's a case of you're either going to be dead an pumping mana into any ritual you have left or you're builing for the next wave with ideally persistent defenses, which slimes are not (unless you got slime village, but even those slimes will get overrun by sheer numbers of enemies).
*This is assuming that she doesn't have some hidden birth rate metric that increases over time.*
Since making her a breeder lock the rest of the content ; it is definitively not the "intended" or end game path. However, on certain context, I could see myself going for breeder selene : she basically allows you to have a steady supply of smile that allow to survive some petipatelin wave without lifting a finger, which sounds pretty great if you do want relatively free for some wave time to focus on other things (morgana, trying to bumpb thing in petipatelin...)
For player that struggle to reach the 100 power because of relatively low stats, I do assume breeder selene is their best bet as surviving as long as they can after capturing petipatelin - sure, she don't help much reaching that power, but she either allows to stockpile on slime to try to survive for at time ; or she give some drone every wave (which does increase your power a tinsy bit).
That is assuming you can unlock breeder selene before capturing petipatelin, and I have ot admit I'm not sure at all about that.
On a totally unrelated note ; a reminder for dev that there is one of my big message lying unanswered above ^^"
If it is intentional, it's totally OK! (it's just since dev usually reply and/or +1 ; I wonder if it was missed)
Yeah sorry this couple week are probably the worst ine term of pressure since I started dev.
The thing is I'm trying to upload a demo of SoM on steam at the same time + I got a couple problem happening at the same time. I should still be able to add some content to next RE:Curse update but yeah I can't spend as much time on forums.
So, I'll just give you a couple short answer :
If stone become too much of a problem, I'll make a "loyalty" requirement for the requirement or something like that. I think there isn't reason to worry to much to balance of feature that aren't here.
Also there is nothing that remove the fact that hunting prisoner has a slow but exponential increase, not even docile mask. But since they use another way to provide prisoners, they don't increase the time required to hunt prisoners.
Sorry for the extra pressure, I geniunly wondered if it was a missed post or if you had nothing to answer ^^"
Thanks for it, and I hope these problem will be solved without much troubles!
Thank you.
I'm not too worried nothing should have lasting consequences it's just extra unexpected work.