Realistic Incest Plots

[polywog]

I'd like to see more realism in incest games. Bring on the slutty sisters who torture their brothers
I'm tired of damsels in distress who need rescuing from their own stupidity.
Lets see some "STRONG WOMEN" for a change.

 

[89tasker]

The power dynamic plays a lot into classifying the relationship as abuse or consensual regardless of the disposition of either party. We are hammered with the idea that it is impossible for students, employees, children (even adult age) from consenting, because even if they are willing, they have no control.

It gets even more complicated when you throw in the fact that women are automatically classified as victims (even when holding positions of authority); which is why western society doesn't deem female teacher/ male student relationships as harshly. Because of this, (Like Polywog suggested) I think the key to writing a plausible incest story is a strong female character (vs the trope of the manipulative male protagonist). Otherwise, we're delving into the rape/abuse/molestation territory.

However, as everyone can attest, a strong female character that immediately jumps onto every male she sees is an instant boner killer for the incest genre. So the conflict has to occur with HER reluctance alone, because we all roll our eyes in disbelief when the man is the one that refuses sex (even in taboo situations).

So now, you have a story about a strong, reluctant, female relative, and how to convince her to initiate the interaction that leads to incest.

...this is starting to make sense.

 

[pb03]

k just for fun im gonna weigh in again. I know of several incest things that happened in real life. All were male family members raping younger women in the family. Either uncles, fathers, or older brothers. Most women who are in these end up very broken and turn into lesbians to avoid the trauma and emotional issues that were forced on them.

I have never heard of any real situations of "love" relations and stuff, you can google anything and get responses. the thing to remember is the internet is not a real thing. Stuff on the internet rarely has any way to know if its true or false, you can check other internet results to compare, but are those trust worthy?

I guess if that's the case maybe you could assume penthouse letters are actually true and that because ppl read something about magic and faries and god, those must all also be true...... There are cases of incest that are consensual but i highly doubt they are high. Countries that do more inbreeding tend to be male driven with women as second class, or lower, citizens. Which means it is highly likely that they were forced into the marriages.

Anyways, I gotta say, the OP asked about realistic incest, not lovey dovey incest, and some of us responded with answers, just cuz some ppl may not like our answers does not mean they are not valid.

If you are in an incest relationship based on love then you can talk all you want about it, but reading shit online does not make an expert out of you.

ok i'll say no more

 

[greyelf]

@RobJoy I'm curious which studies/reports/publications you are getting your facts and statistics from, I'm not saying your numbers are wrong but the ones I have read** (although old) suggest that (non-abuse based) incest relationship numbers may be higher that you state.

** eg. Kinsey; Father-Daughter Incest by Judith Lewis Herman; "Studies in Human Sexuality - A Selected Guide", Incest: Origins of the Taboo, etc...

 

[Corrupted]

I'd like to see more realism in incest games. Bring on the slutty sisters who torture their brothers
I'm tired of damsels in distress who need rescuing from their own stupidity.
Lets see some "STRONG WOMEN" for a change.

Working on it, brah. But be patient, I decided to go 2D and that shit is slow to make. Also I procrastinate a whole lot and am generally a lazy bum. Also, lack of talent.

However, as everyone can attest, a strong female character that immediately jumps onto every male she sees is an instant boner killer for the incest genre. So the conflict has to occur with HER reluctance alone, because we all roll our eyes in disbelief when the man is the one that refuses sex (even in taboo situations).

Actually... No. You've never had your sister or mom come on to you, strongly. Your reaction as a teenage boy is not going to be "Great, finally something to fuck", your reaction is going to be cold fucking terror and "WTF I GOTTA GET OUTTA THERE". Sure, as a mature adult, you could handle such things gracefully. But as a teenage boy? Your mom or your sister giving you a boner and asking you what you gonna do with it? Hell no, you're going to be scared to death anyone ever even finds out you got a boner from them.

Just because your young perky sister decides to jump around in front of you wearing nothing but a bath towel and having an "accidental" wardrobe malfunction going "oops" and baring her big juicy tits, you think you it's ok to have a boner? I mean, wtf is wrong with you m8? Mind you, she does fucking enjoy the male attention from the sole male member of the household - her older brother, and she enjoys even more that you can't do shit about it, and all you know is suffering.

 

[Vibescu]

We are talking about works of fiction. Less realism and more characters well built and developed with coherency.

 

[Wanderan]

I think an incest story can be realistic but not in the traditional sense.

I think what we mean by realistic here is relatable. As in "I can see how that can happen. I wouldn't do it myself, but at least it's not something absolutely insane."

I think in order to write a "realistic" incest story, a balance of time compression and spacing needs to be reached.

Personally, I'm not particularly a fan of the genre but games like Ethan's Legacy and even Summertime Saga have opened my mind a bit more. I'm not supporting it completely, but I do like to see how others write their stories.

That being said, I'm mainly interested in mother-son dynamics but I've also played Dreaming Of Dana and I didn't mind it at all.

I think the most important step in making a "realistic" incest story is making it as relatable as possible without being overly descriptive or drabbling on too much.

Summertime Saga did an okay job with the relationships between the MC and his mom. Dual Family's got potential on the mother-son front. Incest Story and Incest Story 2 didn't do a relatable job in the true sense, but by the time you reach Incest Story 2, you can see that the bond between mother and son has strengthened so much that she's practically his wife (in that he hits it whenever he wants to).

I've toyed with a few ideas, but I'm no good at development so I would never be able to bring it to fruition. I wouldn't mind helping to write one of these stories. It would be interesting

 

[Wanderan]

An idea that I was fooling around with (guess you guys can tell me if it's realistic or not):

MC is a total mama's boy. Hates his father because he's never home (always traveling because of his job), to the point where it's practically just the MC and his mom. The relationship between the MC and his mom is very very deep; she's the only real female figure in his life and she was the one who was there for him every single time he needed someone. She isn't just a mother to him, she's also his closest friend and the refuge he seeks whenever things go horribly wrong.

Fast forward to the MC's 18th (or 21st, because in my country, 18 is the age you're allowed to drink legally) birthday. At this point, the MC has a job and is getting ready to leave for college. Needless to say, his mother doesn't want him to go because then she'll be all alone (they've lived together since the day he was born). For this reason, she decides to do something special for his birthday: cooking him a really nice dinner and being the first person to drink with him.

They drink but both of them have terrible tolerance so they end up playing a childish game of Spin The Bottle (or Devil's Circle for a more humorous time where a lot of dark and funny secrets could be brought up). Eventually, they get to the point where they start talking about their love lives. At this point, the MC begins to realize that he doesn't want to leave his mother and instead wants to be there for her, despite his desire to get a job with six figures, so that he can take care of her and she'll never have to work another day in her life (that's the level of gratitude and love he has for her after all she's done for him).

During the game, the bottle lands on the MC (or in Devil's Circle, the MC draws a Queen which is Truth Or Dare). The MC says truth, prompting the mother to ask him about any girls he has in his life. Obviously, he has none; he's never been one to focus on such things. Upon saying this, the mother (who is drunk at this point) asks him if he's ever kissed a girl before. He replies no, which prompts her to encourage him to seek love. However, in doing so, she realizes how lonely she is and in a fit of sadness and drunken stupor, she begins crying. The MC at this point is also drunk, but not as much as she is so he isn't thinking with all of his inhibitors on. He realizes that she's extremely lonely and in an attempt to help alleviate her loneliness, he decides to give her his first kiss.

Is this too unrealistic?

 

[89tasker]

Is this too unrealistic?

You lost me at spin-the-bottle. That just screams "never, ever, gonna happen."

The deserted island scenario is borderline, but plausible. Most of these stories hinge on the relative being neglected by their partner (husband/boyfriend).

While it's effective, having them be drunk feels like cheating. It's a way to force a ridiculous situation that is usually out of character. .

Also the topic of girls seems to come out of the blue.

A better way would be for the mother to know about the son's girl problems (maybe a recent break-up) and have her motherly concern be the motivation to ask if her son is okay. Which naturally brings up the topic of girls and why. Considering he's going to college, then it would make sense for him to be concerned about being inexperienced; with Mom's empathy realizing they are both facing a lonely road ahead when he leaves.

Now you have a shared experience that leads to dialogue with a possible solution of "keeping each other company".

In my opinion, kissing is too big a transition to open "negotiations." . It almost feels more natural to push a sexual relationship for mutual benefit before the emotional line being crossed by a intimate kiss.

 

[OhWee]

So, if I had to pick one incest game that seems to have handled this the best, even though I hate the framework...

Emily: Sister Attraction.

Note that there are a number of incest games posted about on this forum that I haven't played yet, for various reasons...

As to how realistic it is, well some may like it, others won't. Due to the 'hunting for the right words to enter into the interface in order to get the result you are looking for', this tends to slow things down a bit for the player, so it seems to take longer to get to the end scenes.

This game has a nice slow burn, where you worked into things slowly. Yeah at the end the two of you are fucking like rabbits, but then that's the point of these games, right? I wouldn't mind seeing a 3D character version of this, in order to allow for more sexy scenes (as opposed to using the pics of couple of gals in the adult industry). But the model that was used for Emily is pretty hot, I have to admit. Her friend too!

Thank goodness for walkthroughs for those sort of games (adrift, etc).!

I haven't played the sequel yet (I think it's out), but yeah the original was pretty hot.

 

[Adoringfan]

Emily's game is pretty cliche story about a perverted brother and his stupid exploitable sister, by the end of day 1 you can see through the bullshit. Also, tads, or whatever engine that was, was awful!

@Wanderan playing spin the bottle with their mom is kinda out there, only scenario I could see that happening is drunk or buzzed mom stumbles into a room where a group of people are already playing the game and says 'Ooooo I know this game, I wanna play.' Some of the other people might freak out and leave which could set up mom feeling bad for the son and playing the game with him, or the kids are too drunk to recall the mom and son kissing after the game is over, both of which are somewhat more plausible scenarios.

@greyelf a typical leftist strategy is to make an emotional or controversial statement then provide no data or facts and disregard any evidence presented to the contrary, all while touting words that make it seem like it's common knowledge or that everyone should know.

@89tasker you seem to have a lot of ideas, or at least you are asking the right questions, I'm eager to see what you can do to sell me in a demo.

 

[Wanderan]

You lost me at spin-the-bottle. That just screams "never, ever, gonna happen."

The deserted island scenario is borderline, but plausible. Most of these stories hinge on the relative being neglected by their partner (husband/boyfriend).

While it's effective, having them be drunk feels like cheating. It's a way to force a ridiculous situation that is usually out of character. .

Also the topic of girls seems to come out of the blue.

A better way would be for the mother to know about the son's girl problems (maybe a recent break-up) and have her motherly concern be the motivation to ask if her son is okay. Which naturally brings up the topic of girls and why. Considering he's going to college, then it would make sense for him to be concerned about being inexperienced; with Mom's empathy realizing they are both facing a lonely road ahead when he leaves.

Now you have a shared experience that leads to dialogue with a possible solution of "keeping each other company".

In my opinion, kissing is too big a transition to open "negotiations." . It almost feels more natural to push a sexual relationship for mutual benefit before the emotional line being crossed by a intimate kiss.

Ahh I see.

So the Devil's Circle idea is unrealistic too?

 

[89tasker]

Ahh I see.

So the Devil's Circle idea is unrealistic too?

The problem is that those games are inherently sexual in nature. (it's the goal of it.) The point is to get to a plausible point in the story where the characters DECIDE to cross the taboo line. Having them agree to play the game pretty much pushes them over the boundary at the start. It doesn't matter if there is buildup afterwards, because everyone knows it's already been agreed that something sexual will happen.

It's like two people deciding to play strip poker. The girl could play coy and be shy, but we all know it's an act. She already agreed to strip for you. Regardless of the outcome of the game, there will be fucking afterwards.

 

[Wanderan]

The problem is that those games are inherently sexual in nature. (it's the goal of it.) The point is to get to a plausible point in the story where the characters DECIDE to cross the taboo line. Having them agree to play the game pretty much pushes them over the boundary at the start. It doesn't matter if there is buildup afterwards, because everyone knows it's already been agreed that something sexual will happen.

It's like two people deciding to play strip poker. The girl could play coy and be shy, but we all know it's an act. She already agreed to strip for you. Regardless of the outcome of the game, there will be fucking afterwards.

Ahh I see. I'll modify it some more to make it more "slow burn" esque.

 

[MantisK]

These are some things I think should be answered within the story:

What was the relationship history
How did the attraction first occur
How reluctant were the people involved
Was the trigger a single event or multiple subtle changes
How did they find out about the attraction
Did they fight it
Who initiated first contact
What is the power dynamic
What pushed them to cross the boundary
Who controls the frequency of the encounters
How far would they go to keep it a secret
Who else knows

One thing I think it, incest involves individuals with a pre-existing level of intimacy. Cousin's and siblings are more likely to explore, to a point, than friends. It involves a level of trust and contact, as well as plain old availability. This is why it is the biggest taboo.
Given its historic and religious involvement, meaning it is very much a part of religious texts, children get it taught to them from a very young age. The point is, there is a line.
Yes, siblings peak, parents were kids once and peak to catch behaviors early. When you progress beyond childhood into teenage years, you add the confusion of hormones and the pressures of having experience. It reverts to the ability to find someone you feel comfortable enough with to push the envelope.
It is not like if you never taught kids about sex they would not figure it out. Accidents happen, but more so pets happen. That is literally the first experience with sex children have, seeing dogs/cats doing it. More so if they live on or near farms were breeding is mandatory.
Given all these points, it seems even those that never act upon such notions would have at least one occasion to think of the possibility. That being said, not everyone has siblings or cousins, at least not in the age range and availability of access. This leads to the next level, parents/aunts/uncles/grandparents.
Even in a family of ore than one child, one may harbor notions, but not the other.
Now, I'm tired and losing focus, but hope some of this makes sense.

 

[89tasker]

@89tasker you seem to have a lot of ideas, or at least you are asking the right questions, I'm eager to see what you can do to sell me in a demo.

I'm working on the script. Which is backwards to most Devs who start with great CGI and then try to fill in a story. I started out on Adrift/Tads to see what was possible but decided that Renpy might be a better choice. I've created a few test demos but never released them since I never intended to finish it. (I would make a great patreon milker!)

I'll probably get a complete game done when I retire (coming up fast). Which would likely involve Genesis 10 models on DAZ. I wouldn't expect anything from me for a long time. I do this for me and I am very critical.

 

[polywog]

Most incest takes place at an early age. For example when a girls see a penis for the first time. "What is that!?!?!" and "I'll show you mine, If you show me yours." things start to heat up, when the girl asks "Can I touch it?" and the boy responds "NO Way, you already broke yours off" Forever ashamed of being penisless, the girl makes the best of her situation, offering to trade something of value, in exchange for a boy allowing her to "share" his penis with her.

Easy enough to describe in literature, but not allowed in art outside the church.

It's hard to translate the innocence of youth, onto an adult character without making that character seem very stupid, or naive. Like Allie in DMD, just now discovering that she has a vagina. Developers do the best they can, with what they have to work with.

 

[greyelf]

@greyelf a typical leftist strategy....

If this is relation to my request to @RobJoy to supply information on the source(s) of their information, then it was made with the main goal of being able to read that information myself so that I could learn if recent sources show that US cultural behaviours have changed since the sources I listed were written.

It is difficult to either agree with or dispute claims if you don't know where the base information that helped form them were obtained.

As to me being leftist or not. Where I live cultural terms like that have a slightly different meaning because we have tax payer funded social welfare and public medical coverage, and in general the working public are happy to pay for it.

 

[Adoringfan]

If this is relation to my request to @RobJoy to supply information on the source(s) of their information, then it was made with the main goal of being able to read that information myself so that I could learn if recent sources show that US cultural behaviours have changed since the sources I listed were written.

It is difficult to either agree with or dispute claims if you don't know where the base information that helped form them were obtained.

As to me being leftist or not. Where I live cultural terms like that have a slightly different meaning because we have tax payer funded social welfare and public medical coverage, and in general the working public are happy to pay for it.

I think you missed my meaning, I based my assessment on the poster whom you responded to by previous statements he had made. I was informing you that it was a typical strategy I come across fairly often where you downplay everything, never present any information to the contrary and try to tout absurdity to assume otherwise. As far as your own political affiliation, I don't really care. You are asking the right questions which means you have a head on your shoulders and are alright in my book.

 

[RobJoy]

Also, everyone who thinks it is impossible to get a boner on both mother and daughter in the real world, because it is being unrealistic.

Do you recognize this famous actress? They are both good.
Mom and daughter. And if there was a son, I bet he would be getting a boner in that household.

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