Remove This Blasphemy From My Avatar

[anne O'nymous]

The 19th century is a bit late for influence from Saturnalia and Nordic myths, no?

Totally. Reason why I said that Santa is a construction over both, not that it come from them.

It's the perfect period for amateurs inventing those roots tho.

Not necessarily. It's possible that there's a part of dream regarding what were the Saturnalia, and a part of delusion regarding the Nordic myths.

But any historian can easily relate

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(AD 274) and the first Christmas celebration under Constantin reign (336). Before that date, Nativity and Epiphany were celebrated together.
Historians probably have stronger arguments, but even for a neophyte it's relatively easy to do.
Since it's Constantin who set up Christianity as official religion, while Christians weren't really celebrating birthday, it was a small move that yet had a strong impact. Invincible Sun's birthday became Jesus Christ's birthday, softly introducing Christianity in pagans mind, both through the holly day and the, more global, switch between Invisible Sun figure and Jesus Christ one.

As for the Nordic part, if I'm not wrong it come from Saint Claus; but my knowledge is really thin there.

And, one day, Santa Claus became a figure all by himself, over both the day of Christmas, and the person of Saint Claus.

 

[Sam]

Good, now I'll pray for an admin to make an exception, and keep your hat longer, just for this to happen.

 

[Capt. Fubar]

Have it your way then.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I'm old and all, so I may be wrong, missing an important point, but I somehow have the feeling that avatars have a meaning that he didn't fully get

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

When you say "Merry Christmas" to Reddit user.

 

[Joshy92]

I personally love the themed stuff they do at Halloween & Christmas time.

 

[Death Panda]

Hail Santa

 

[Steuan]

When you say "Merry Christmas" to Reddit user.

You should stay away from Reddit if you want to keep your sanity

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

You should stay away from Reddit if you want to keep your sanity

Staying away from that place is good for your mental health, because if I hanged there much longer I'd soon be wearing a 1940s Hugo Boss uniform.

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

Have it your way then.

What can I say, it suits you

 

[Sam]

Have it your way then.

Howdy-ho!

 

[KaltesHerz]

i'm a devout atheist and even I don't take issue with this

some people just need to get a grip and realize that its meaningless unless you give it meaning

i havent celebrated christmas in decades, but when someone says merry christmas to me, i take it as a thought of well wishes and do the same in return

i guess, taking things as a simple kindness to modern world is,,, simply a hill to far.

 

[Capt. Fubar]

i'm a devout atheist and even I don't take issue with this

some people just need to get a grip and realize that its meaningless unless you give it meaning

i havent celebrated christmas in decades, but when someone says merry christmas to me, i take it as a thought of well wishes and do the same in return

i guess, taking things as a simple kindness to modern world is,,, simply a hill to far.

I have neither wish nor enough English proficiency to start a philosophical argument; but, may be this kind of thinking is the problem. Perhaps some people just need to get a grip and make a stand instead. Anyway, I'm happy for you; it is good to stand somewhere in the middle, blurry.

Yea, I'm messing with you mate. 8D

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[Goeffel]

Rübennase! / "Du hast aber auch ganz schönen Zinken im Gesicht!"
(when the German dub is actually even better than the original )

 

[KaltesHerz]

I have neither wish nor enough English proficiency to start a philosophical argument; but, may be this kind of thinking is the problem. Perhaps some people just need to get a grip and make a stand instead. Anyway, I'm happy for you; it is good to stand somewhere in the middle, blurry.

Yea, I'm messing with you mate. 8D

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maybe the problem is, you're just a crybaby who didnt get hugs enough as a kid

in our modern world it seems like EVERYONE is looking for a reason to be upset about something

you're just another in a long list of people looking for any reason at all to be mad

in the end, nobody gives a shit about you and neither should they

let people be, and mind your own business

 

[Jaike]

It's never too late...

Why go with that if you could've gone with this?

But any historian can easily relate

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(AD 274) and the first Christmas celebration under Constantin reign (336). Before that date, Nativity and Epiphany were celebrated together.
Historians probably have stronger arguments, but even for a neophyte it's relatively easy to do.
Since it's Constantin who set up Christianity as official religion, while Christians weren't really celebrating birthday, it was a small move that yet had a strong impact. Invincible Sun's birthday became Jesus Christ's birthday, softly introducing Christianity in pagans mind, both through the holly day and the, more global, switch between Invisible Sun figure and Jesus Christ one.

I was responding to your post about the origin of Santa Claus, so this is a detour that's pretty irrelevant to that question (discussed after the other quote). But I'll bite.

Spoiler: details

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The conjecture connects 3 very uncertain elements. So all in all it isn't very convincing, and it's better to keep more distance from uncertain theories outside someone's expertise. And it says nothing about the influence of Saturnalia (17 to 23 December) or Nordic myths on Santa Claus, the original subject of the post I responded too.

As for the Nordic part, if I'm not wrong it come from Saint Claus; but my knowledge is really thin there.

And, one day, Santa Claus became a figure all by himself, over both the day of Christmas, and the person of Saint Claus.

Santa Claus comes from Sinterklaas, a Dutch folk name for Nicholas of Myra (late 3rd and early 4th century) that's been around since the

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(the examples after 1340 are most relevant). This is part of his general popularity in the Holy Roman Empire and in communities with sailors, too. Myra's in southwest Anatolia, but sailors from Bari undiplomatically took his supposed remains in the 11th century, a city that was affiliated with the Holy Roman Empire, to mention 1 influence for his spreading popularity. He was initially associated with charity, the gift giving traditions developed in the Late Middle Ages in northern Europe. Leaving gifts in shoes or socks, and possibly a myth that these gifts were delivered through the chimney, were already around by the time the Sinterklaas tradition was transported to what's now southern New York.

Spoiler: more details

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Anyway, while there are occasional gaps in the evidence in details of the traditions around Nicholas of Myra and the trail becomes less certain when you get back to the Early Middle Ages and beyond, I don't see why you'd add additional conjecture to this.

I'm old and all, so I may be wrong, missing an important point, but I somehow have the feeling that avatars have a meaning that he didn't fully get

A nugget of wisdom from the éminence grise of F95zone! Sadly seems OP prefers other nuggets tho.

 

[Sam]

Well, it's the new year, so we've had to hand in all of our hats for another 12 months.

Somehow, someone has managed to hang on to theirs though. Not sure how that could have happened.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Santa Claus comes from Sinterklaas, [...]

Yes, but no, and it's precisely where the issue lie.

US Santa Claus comes from Sinterklass, but US Santa Claus is, globally speaking, nothing more than an US representation.
Translation made it that a same name end being used by persons who are finally not really the sames, this being enforced by the difference in beliefs. How far a Santa Claus differ from another depending on the country, and sometimes the region, you're looking at.
And translation isn't the only issue here. There's also the commercial standardisation that play a role. I forgot the details because I didn't thought that it would be useful knowledge one day, but I learned recently that there's a french guy who goes each year in China to play Father Christmas in a giant mall. And everyone is happy to see him, reason why he's hired every year, this despite Christmas meaning nothing, both religiously and culturally, in China. [

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, it will help you practice your French; I picked the first accurate link, not sure how far they goes in the details].


Your Sinterklass isn't really the same than the US Santa Claus, like the french Father Christmas isn't the same than both. Hell, to be totally fair, Father Christmas, as seen by the part of my family coming from the North of France, is not strictly the same that the one as seen by the part of my family coming from the South of France.
Yet, when you need to name him in English, you'll say "Santa Claus". But, to be correct we should do the same than for Kings and other nobility figures. Frederic II of Sicile isn't the same than Frederic II duke of Austria, and Santa Claus from the USA isn't the same than Santa Claus from France.

While US Santa Claus is, and have probably always been, a religious figure, in France he's more secular, if not profane; and this probably since its origins, since France secularism root goes back as far as the French revolution. For us, Epiphany is way more important, from a religious point of view, than Christmas. Outside of the midnight mass the night from the 24 to the 25 December, the day isn't really religious; and I partly come from a really devout family.

This also answer to your previous point, regarding the existence of more than one theory. Both aren't necessarily incompatible, nor can it be said that one oppose to the other.
To stay in France, Father Christmas as seen in the North is (as far as I can judge) close to SinterKlass, while the one as seen is the South lean more on Solis Invictus side. I even had a distant (and old) Aunt who used to celebrate Saint Nicholas; for her, the 6 December was "Santa Claus day", while the 25 December wasn't.

A nugget of wisdom from the éminence grise of F95zone!

I haven't addressed the rest because I mostly agree with you. My initial point wasn't to claim that "Santa Claus root are...", but more to point the difficulties to define what Santa Claus is; something too complex to be defined otherwise than locally.

And it's really disturbing for me to see that I achieved to do it more efficiently after a New Year Eve of drinking, than in normal circumstances...

 

[Letstryitout]

So everyones hat is removed except for this guy? Lmao

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

Well, it's the new year, so we've had to hand in all of our hats for another 12 months.

Somehow, someone has managed to hang on to theirs though. Not sure how that could have happened.