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Jaike

Jaike

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Aug 24, 2020
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anne O'nymous said:
Yes, but no, and it's precisely where the issue lie.

US Santa Claus comes from Sinterklass, but US Santa Claus is, globally speaking, nothing more than an US representation.
Translation made it that a same name end being used by persons who are finally not really the sames, this being enforced by the difference in beliefs. How far a Santa Claus differ from another depending on the country, and sometimes the region, you're looking at.
And translation isn't the only issue here. There's also the commercial standardisation that play a role. I forgot the details because I didn't thought that it would be useful knowledge one day, but I learned recently that there's a french guy who goes each year in China to play Father Christmas in a giant mall. And everyone is happy to see him, reason why he's hired every year, this despite Christmas meaning nothing, both religiously and culturally, in China. [
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, it will help you practice your French; I picked the first accurate link, not sure how far they goes in the details].


Your Sinterklass isn't really the same than the US Santa Claus, like the french Father Christmas isn't the same than both. Hell, to be totally fair, Father Christmas, as seen by the part of my family coming from the North of France, is not strictly the same that the one as seen by the part of my family coming from the South of France.
Yet, when you need to name him in English, you'll say "Santa Claus". But, to be correct we should do the same than for Kings and other nobility figures. Frederic II of Sicile isn't the same than Frederic II duke of Austria, and Santa Claus from the USA isn't the same than Santa Claus from France.

While US Santa Claus is, and have probably always been, a religious figure, in France he's more secular, if not profane; and this probably since its origins, since France secularism root goes back as far as the French revolution. For us, Epiphany is way more important, from a religious point of view, than Christmas. Outside of the midnight mass the night from the 24 to the 25 December, the day isn't really religious; and I partly come from a really devout family.

This also answer to your previous point, regarding the existence of more than one theory. Both aren't necessarily incompatible, nor can it be said that one oppose to the other.
To stay in France, Father Christmas as seen in the North is (as far as I can judge) close to SinterKlass, while the one as seen is the South lean more on Solis Invictus side. I even had a distant (and old) Aunt who used to celebrate Saint Nicholas; for her, the 6 December was "Santa Claus day", while the 25 December wasn't.




I haven't addressed the rest because I mostly agree with you. My initial point wasn't to claim that "Santa Claus root are...", but more to point the difficulties to define what Santa Claus is; something too complex to be defined otherwise than locally.

And it's really disturbing for me to see that I achieved to do it more efficiently after a New Year Eve of drinking, than in normal circumstances...
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Okay, that makes more sense. I think your examples for "the difficulties to define what Santa Claus is" are more a function of the commercialisation you mentioned, so Santa Claus pushing out or influencing similar characters like Father Christmas, and of the fact Christmas was a relatively unimportant holiday before the 19th century. The "competitors" with a strong profile don't blend and have a lot of staying power; it isn't a surprise Santa Claus derived from one of those.

No, people in those regions see Sinterklaas and Santa Claus as distinct and normally wouldn't call Saint Nicholas Santa Claus in English. That's usually an indication their English is crap or they're trying hard to use familiar concepts for a listener, or it's just American journalists being idiots.
 
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