Well if we're getting philosophical about the plot and characters therein I'd point out that you just described what an abusive relationship is.
I don't think anybody can argue, in good faith, otherwise. She DID heavily traumatize Cat. I do believe there is merit in arguing whether or not Cat needed (note, definitely not "wanted") that level of abuse to reach the point we get our hands on her at.
One more thing, Kyo knows the ends don't justify the means, she just thinks it doesn't apply to her for some reason. In other words, she's a hypocrite.
I guess it depends on your interpretation of her as a character. Does she have a selfish side? Of course. In fact, it's probably one of her defining characteristics that allowed her to not just survive, but reach the position of prestige she holds. Can she be vicious and sadistic? Cat herself states (in the dialogues where you pick "No" when offered Jeanne) that, if she doesn't take Jeanne in, "Kyo will have you sexually service stallions by the end of the day." And it doesn't seem much of an exagerration.
But if you pick the "objectification" scene when Cat gets to dominate her, Kyo herself states that what Cat does to her is more than she ever did to Cat (most memorably along the lines of "I never made you lick cum off the floor"). Kyo was abusive toward Cat, but it does not strike me that her primary motivation for it was self-service. She genuinely believed she was helping Cat. Personally, I do disagree with her choices, and I think NecroBunny got a really handy setup with Cat now being the Mistress to another student in exploring this subject further. We already can "go easy" or do softer version of "Kyo training methods," and I hope this will be developed further one way or another. Personally, I think coddling our Pinky is a bad way to go about it, but I certainly don't want Cat to follow Kyo's example in everything. As far as I'm concerned, Cat can be a strict and demanding teacher while a good friend (or more) outside of those situations. Teaching - and training - is very much about pushing somebody beyond their comfort zone, but you do need to know the boundaries that you shouldn't cross. Whether or not she judged those correctly, Kyo seems to have been perfectly aware of it.
Her ends DO justify her means and she did do it for Cat's own good.
I think there's enough ambiguity there to argue that Cat might have reached her full power without Kyo's mistreatment, but... we can't know.
What we do know is that both Kyo AND Cat (at least in the paths I played) think ultimately it did help Cat develop her powers to a degree she herself otherwise thinks she would not have been able to. That seems rather telling.
There are a few moments near the start of the game where Cat would have died if Kyo hadn't pushed her to her limit.
Exactly, the encounter with the water nymph in the Old Forest results, to the best of my knowledge, in multiple confirmations of it, both through narration and Cat's description of the events to Kyo herself later on. At least, again, in the paths I played.
He wanted to enslave Cat and turn her into a mindless cumdump.
He tried to kill her several times.
He was part of the plot to let demons take over and murder everyone.
There is no redemption.
That's why I wish there was an option to tell Kyo to let Leonore (IIRC the name) to completely mind-wipe Jeanne before taking her in.
Maintaining Jean's personality might be Kyo's idea of revenge, but I don't see it as anything healthy, or appealing, to MY idea of Cat. Destroy the man, certainly - that much is more than deserved. But don't cultivate the very characteristics that were what Cat found the worst in Kyo, and, if possible, fight them in Kyo herself now.
Since it appears possible, recycling that wasted life that was Jean into something positive is much, much more appealing to me than any kind of objectification or degradation revenge (yes, I get that there's a massive market for that content, I'm just saying another option would be nice, too
).
Also if Kyo really were a abusive lover her end goal would always to make Catherine low on self esteem to keep her dependant on Kyo. On the contrary, Cat's master wants and hope she will reach new highs on her life.
Fully agree with this - Kyo, who by her own admission is very lonely, went on with things she was perfectly aware would alienate Cat. That does not strike me as an action of a selfish individual (in that respect) who just wants a sub around. Though I doubt anybody can argue that Kyo did not enjoy the things she did. She's damaged, and, for me, the possibility of changing her tragic life into something more positive is a great part of the appeal of "romance" path with her.
I just pointed out that the "Catherine would be dead if not for Kyo's training" argument is an opinion and not a fact.
It's an opinion that both characters (along with the disembodied narrator) share, though.
If she doesn't regret doing it, what is she apologizing for?
"I'm sorry the circumstances made it necessary for my to put you through this. I wish we all had other choices, but I do not believe there were any other ways, and I don't regret making you stronger." Dunno, there are various sentiments you can read in even that simple statement she made.
What we've seen though, from Kyo training Eleanor, is that her masochistic tendencies bleed into her training which most likely happened with Cat as well. So it's easy to assume Kyo went beyond what was necessary to "push Cat to greatness".
Minor quibble - pretty sure you mean "sadistic tendencies"
That said, the descriptions and dialogue during "revenge" abuse of Kyo by Cat does seem to negate this assertion. IIRC, Kyo is genuinely sad when Cat turns abusive herself, which would be an odd reaction if Kyo herself saw nothing wrong with such self-gratification.
Heh, all this analysis, meanwhile NecroBunny is probably going, "But... but I just wanted to make a porn game..."
