Yakis0ba
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Why can large breasts be described as "big-ass tits" but large butts can't be described as "big-tit asses"?
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Beavis_Prime
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erisonkel
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There's the obvious reason of transphobia, but I reckon another big factor is the tag lumping both in one basket. When the tag system revamp finally drops in 2035, we will finally be able to separate the mythical, simple, nuanceless futanari and the real, complicated, relatable trans women.
Yakis0ba
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I guess I'd ask you to define transphobia in this specific context, but I'm pretty sure it's almost entirely the latter--plenty of people seem to think "feminine with dick is feminine with dick!", both in terms of people who don't like any of that stuff, as well as people who DO like it. I'm one who likes futa but not trans (or trap or femboy or any of those, which I'll state is definitely different from trans, but is relevant to the point I'm building up to), and I've seen plenty of people who like one wondering how you can not like the others.
Go on Tales of Androgyny and politely state you wish MC was futa? "What's the difference?" Find a thread labeled "male on futa" and have to ask if a user meant trans or futa? "What's the difference?" etc.
Ok, so this issue is actually older than the popularization of trans discussion. This divide wasn't originally Futanari vs. Trans, it was Futanari vs. Shemale/Newhalf, and how porn/hentai sites would label and categorize them. Obviously a couple decades ago all of these terms were even more obscure and niche than they are now, so people tended to use them even more interchangeably. This effectively laid the groundwork for the confusion going on now. Things were further exacerbated when words like "tranny" and "shemale" became looked down upon, and everyone was told to stop using them, because now it's like "well shit, we have this entire TAG of porn that we have to switch over to something else, what do we do?" and so while some switched shemale over to trans, a bunch of other people said "fuck it, futa already exists and it's close enough and no one is yelling at us for saying it, so any girl with a dick is a futa"
There are other sites that kinda fix this problem by using "dick girl" as the umbrella term. Anything that presents as a woman, but has a penis, is a dick girl, and then within that category are futanari, trans, newhalf, etc. etc. and you can have your minutia there.
There are other sites that kinda fix this problem by using "dick girl" as the umbrella term. Anything that presents as a woman, but has a penis, is a dick girl, and then within that category are futanari, trans, newhalf, etc. etc. and you can have your minutia there.
LeakCode
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Then it's incorrect anatomy.
This is how genita development works. The scrotum skin comes from the same tissue as labia. When that tissue splits, it opens up the canal for the vagina. So you either get scrotum, or labia, not both. See picture below for correct anatomy of hermaphrodite with testicles.
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erisonkel
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Conflating real marginalized people with fictional fetishized beings. Sometimes intentionally as a way to diminish their existence with the plausible deniability of either ignorance or "it's just a porn tag bro".
Honestly, the debate unrelated to trans people, the one about whether futa can have balls, pussy, both, whatever, is kinda idiotic, but as long as the people, who, for some reason, care about that, stick to terms that shouldn't be used for real people, it's just another debate within a community on the internet. But people keep pulling trans people in, whether as just another word to divide the futa categories or whatever, or as conflation like mentioned above.
When the mystical tag rework actually drops and the tags are separated, people, who just want girls with dicks but without the baggage of trans existence, can search for futa, while actual trans characters can be tagged as such. It'll certainly expose some people's beliefs on the matter once they have to actually think about the difference between the two.
Yakis0ba
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OK, but... futanari are inherently fictional and would be able to develop their own anatomy rules...
Except futanari is a Japanese word with a defined definition.
Lizard_Wizard91
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Extremely weak trolling, please stop embarrassing yourself any further.
Indeed 二形 as it's written with kanji, does translate to 'hermaphrodite' when you look it up on jisho.org, however hermaphrodites are not transgender and the way these 'hermaphrodites' function in hentai is completely fictional. You'll never find a person who has both a vagina, a dick, a pair of balls and tits all at the same and all of which are completely functional in real life. It's a hentai invention and 'futanari' as it is used in hentai should not be conflated with real life hermaphrodites or trans-people as they are not the same.
Yakis0ba
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Were it up to me - and it probably absolutely shouldn't be - there would only be a tag for fully functional hermaphrodites, and everything else would be deleted.
LeakCode
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Do you draw fantasy human species with their nose covering their eyes then? You could but you wouldn't call them beautiful
They are based on real life figures so rules from real life should still apply. Besides, the people that developed their own rules are the western people. Not Japanese. Go back to the 90s and watch and read the old stuff and see for yourself. The Japanese who respected the tradition introduced a new word for the imported stuff full-packaged futanari so things don't get confusing and keep the respect for the originals. Unfortunately a lot of the new guys don't know about that.
Could say the same to you when I have presented concrete evidence of sexual organ development with real life cases.
You have no evidence and making it all personal is your only argument. Your depictions of "fantasy" doesn't mean it doesn't take root from real life.
And your art is also western not Japanese. Want Japanese from the 90-2000s before the west corrupted it? Here:
Both the penis and the vagina are fully visible. That's the definition of "2 form"
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Yakis0ba
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I mean, that's interesting, because here's a pic from the manga "Hot Tails", from 1993, which I'm seeing in a lot of articles as being the Japanese hentai that first really helped popularize the concept of futanari in the US:
NOTE THE SCROTE.
(I couldn't find it in the original Japanese, but it IS translated, not English, and I'm doubting they went and drew a bunch of stuff for a tiny [due to nicheness] American audience.)
(Unless you were only talking about 'futa' who don't have a vagina AT ALL, in which case... Whoops, I stepped into the wrong argument.)
LeakCode
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Exactly. That's why it ruined its meaning in the west. Because if you sort by oldest date first on dlsite with the futanari category selected, you will see the entire page filled with only balless futanari. It was the default back then.
But now if you search on F95 by futanari, 9/10 futanari got balls and they completely cover the vagina
Yakis0ba
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And how much of that is because they used 3D models that don't really HAVE a "dick with vagina" option because they were never meant to be used for futanari porn? Like, when you say "they completely cover the vagina", do you mean you've got to shift them out of the way but the vagina IS THERE, or do you mean no vagina is visible on the futa characters in the game because there just isn't a vagina?
LeakCode
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Does it matter? The end product is still a "futa" without a visible vagina, meaning they look like trans. Moreover, back then, you see 99% of futanari being balless on Japanese site because not only was that the original definition, the point of having futa is two have 2 girls fucking. If you go by the definition of being able to inseminate being male and being able to conceive as being female, the balled ones are males not females. Having both testicles means they don't have ovaries.
As for not having balless 3D models? That's simply not true. And if there aren't any, people should be making them.
Yakis0ba
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The difference is I'm wondering if you're specifically talking about vagina-less futas, or if being able to see a vagina when looking from the back or underneath but having the view 'blocked' from the front makes the difference to you.
"That's simply not true. And if there aren't any..." Well then, that kind of defeats the purpose of your definitive "that's simply not true" dismissal. And the vast majority of gamers on here who use pre-existing models can't make new models---that's WHY they're USING pre-made models from DAZ and HoneySelect and whatnot.
You just seem to be making a ton of assumptions about... a fetish and what people are thinking about the thing they're jacking off to.
If having balls is all about being able to inseminate, then what are ball-less futas spurting out of their members when they cum? I doubt most people--even most of the original artists--are actually thinking about how it's all supposed to work biologically.
It seems odd that you would be so concerned about "balls makes it A MAN!" when anyone who doesn't like futanari would already see it as a man because of THE PENIS.
(And why are so many futanari aficionados so confident that there's ONE thing to like about futanari and that everyone is getting off to them for the exact same specific reason? I keep seeing this--and the opinions those people are so confident about are all different, so it's not a case of me being the odd one out.)
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