- Oct 9, 2017
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Would be nice
. That or eventually add just a cuddle scene or something. Don't get me wrong, I know it would be more work but also more romantic.
. That or eventually add just a cuddle scene or something. Don't get me wrong, I know it would be more work but also more romantic.
Just added a small timer that if there is only option in a menu it will auto-select it after 2 seconds.Would be nice
Should be enough.
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That's good but I'm not 100% sure I'm going to stick with this one. No offence to you personally it's just that the Eloise first time setup really, really rubbed me the wrong way. I mean, it's her first time and wants to see what a little feels like and he is pretty much like "Fuck that it's all or nothing". Then she's just like "Oh, okay. I guess I'm ready for anything now". Is he that forceful, for lack of a better word, with everyone? It's not like there is a lot of player agency in those scenes to begin with really so I didn't like him taking the reins like that at all.
I don't think he was being forceful with her. He was willing to wait.
I'm trying to remember the exact way it went, but she was wanting just the tip, and he wasn't up for that. So she was like: fuck it. Let's do it. After all he was trying to get her really horny, so she was having a hard time resisting.
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I said for lack of a better word, probably not forceful but at the very least very adamant. I doesn't change the fact that he flat out refused her request because it wasn't proper sex. The fact that he was willing to wait doesn't change that. She was only okay with it after he said he "doesn't do anything half way". She has never done anything like that and wanted to experiment but he wasn't having it and the player has zero say in the matter.
- Nov 28, 2022
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Sorry if I'm intruding, The Mc is A Dragon i don't know how much of the story have you seen but as is stated he wants all or nothing. He is greedy and not necessarily a good person. He is just a Dragon with some humanity, but a dragon overall. Even his looks are taked from another person without caring if that person was okay with the idea of having a doppleganger. Diane for example doesn't have much morals and she couldn't care less about the humans and what they think about her, they are young for dragons so we can expect some mistakes
Sorry if I'm defending too much haha, it's just that i really like the game.
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Well if that's the direction the MC goes with the player just along for the ride then I guess I'm out. He hasn't seemed like that to me so far but if he changes that much this one isn't for me. Not the end of the world.
- Nov 28, 2022
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As I said, he is not a bad person and he tries to not stay in bad terms with anyone, but if someone threats him or his girls you can expect that he is gonna fight until his last breath. I understand that not everyone is gonna like that but even him has is reasons for not have much faith in some humans. It's a big thing so watch out, The humans killed his wife and non born child, so I think he has his reasons to not be a super happy guy, even with all the power he has, he's still in danger and had suffered discrimination With sex he is pretty straight forward beacuse that's how Dragons see the act, something only to procreate "¿you want to? then let's go, you don't then let's do semething more" the MC is one of the fews dragons that actually see sex like something more, that's part of his development, the girls are changing him, he is starting to want to "have fun" in life.
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I haven't seen him see sex as something more yet, at all really. There also may be slight romance in a few scenes but there really isn't any real romantic interactions and definitely no intimacy that I have seen so far. My active save is right in the middle of the scene I found so off-putting. Still debating if I'll start it up again or not. The lack of any real player input for the girl's path is my biggest problem with the game. He is also very, very opinionated and seems to love talking about himself and his many beliefs. So far the only choices I've seen that change anything are the ones where you start a path or not. It's largely kinetic overall. You as a player just watch the MC do wat he does.
- Nov 28, 2022
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Yeah i know, I too had a little problems with the beginning of the game, it's not bad it's just rough, and as the dev has said, we aren't even halfway of the game, the MC can't change too much because he has had decades of beliefs, you can't change that so soon, for example in Hannah's path he watch movies and tv with her and give her insight of how dragons see this things, with Aster and Eloise he starts going to the beach even knowing that water can have bad results in him, right now it could not seems like a big thing, but for a Dragon it is. Yes it's pretty kinetic right now, it's bee a while since i played the update but most of decisions are if you want a girl or not, other ones are if you want to be aggressive or chill with the people you know and posible enemies. And remember Dragons are greedy, they're not gonna change so easily.
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I never said he had to have some kind of grand revelation but that doesn't mean the player has to be constantly reminded of the kind of opinions this guy has. I also don't care for the twenty paragraph long lore dumps that seem to come out of nowhere. I've seen people call it world building but it really isn't. It takes the same approach as a The Legend of Heroes game in that regard. or the stories about his past jobs that never come up again. That's like all of the scenes with Hannah and Helena, you are supposed to be progressing with them but the only thing that happens is him talking about himself but you somehow become closer to them personally? Now I'm not saying any of this to deter the dev or anything but it is becoming a problem for me personally.
Oof, that was a big spoiler.
So, we could debate on that scene for a long time. I decided to ask the specialists. I showed that scene to some women I know (including my wife), and asked for feedback. If it felt forceful, manipulative, and so on. I am happy to say they all agreed that it wasn't. Their consensus was that it was just a guy setting boundaries, which is fine. They said it was good when a man was clear about what he is willing or not to do. Which was what I was going for. Of course, that won't change how you feel, and that is fine. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. If that is too much for you, sure, stop playing. But I do like talking about my game, and explaining scenes.
When we talk about player input, I have to deal with a bunch of technical limitations. If I make too many branches at the start of the story, I will have to deal with them and make way too many alternative scenes and so on. That can be a big issue if I am not careful, especially in a long story like this. So, in this case, I would have to deal with a scene where she loses her virginity or not, and consider that in the future. Otherwise, I could make him accept that, and she changes her mind later wanting it all. But I don't see the point in making the player make a choice and loop back to the same place.
When I made this character I didn't want him to be just a simp that does everything girls ask him for. He knows what he likes or not, and what he is willing or not to do. There will be another scene in the future where he will flat out refuse a request because a girl will be like 'Because this is not really sex'. And he will be: nope, it is, and if you are looking for loopholes I am not interested.
I didn't want to make a blank state MC that just has no personality and just goes with whatever is going on. I understand that might make a player feel like he has no agency on what is going on in the game. But I assure you every single choice in this game has some significance. Some more, some less. He is a creature that lived and worked with humanoids, but he never lived as a humanoid. So, there are many things he will learn during the game.
Not gonna lie, when he got there, he didn't give half a fuck about any of them. Affection is difficult to him given his nature, but not impossible. He slowly starts to care about them. I believe the biggest turning point is at the end of chapter 4, when another character accuses him of 'playing house'. So, he decides to give an honest try at living as a human.
I don't agree with the game being kinetic, there are many pathways even now, and even scenes that can go one way or another. But sure, there aren't big differences. Most branches end up finding each other down the line. We will start seeing big differences on the story around chapter 18. That is when things will go one of three different ways. Because of that, there won't be many choices for the player after chapter 18, mostly consequences.
Just some small details that I have to point out. The person in question is dead though. And it is not an exact copy either. He issue wasn't with just humans tho, but with humanoids in general.
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I can see where your thought prosses may have been but if I had to pick one thing that irks me it would be that so far I have never really felt like a player. He is a very rigidly written MC and it just feels like you are sitting on his shoulder watching what happens, no choices to even nudge him in a direction you would like him to go, no way to mold him at all. Like with my previous discussion you are either cool with what you watch or you roll your eyes and just wait for what he does next, there is no in-between, no "agency".
Granted I haven't gotten too far but from the sounds of it the choices you are talking about are just story choices with later consequences. That's fine and all, and good to have, but the player is supposed to be this MC, no? If there is going to be an almost complete disregarded for the players opinions or preferences why even make it a VN, that's what KNs are for in the end. I know it's not kinetic but it's far from an inclusive experience.
Again, I haven't gotten far yet but the MC feels like the center point of this game to me. Countless pieces of backstory about him, the great many stories he tells about his work and the long discussions of how he feels about everything. It's because of that, that we know way more about this guy that probably every other character in the game combined. Almost to a point where the women around him feel more like tools to push "his" story forward or just something to fill the lewd quota with.
Your choices do nudge him in a direction, but as Core_guy said it takes some time. I understand what you said about VN and KN, but I don't think that is the only difference. To make a character that the player fully agrees with all actions would be absurdly difficult. Hell, not even I agree with everything he thinks/does. As much as I agree that the player has to be able to connect in some way with the MC, the player is not the MC. This is not a mute protagonist. In this kind of story, I find that makes more sense to understand why the MC is doing what he is doing, than agreeing with everything he does. In the end it would just be impossible to cover every base.
We get a lot about his BG, because his BG is extensive, he is 205 years old. There is a lot to tell. But we do learn a lot about other characters too. I disagree that they are just tools, they have their own thoughts and even push back against his ideas. Mostly Hannah though, as she is opposite to him in the alignment spectrum. And well, he is the main character it is normal that the story focuses on him. But as content goes, we have an close amount of content talking about him and about other characters. But as there are many characters it can feel spread. I am measuring that as I write the story.
- Oct 9, 2017
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I guess I feel more disjointed than anything. It's good for a VN to have a fleshed out MC otherwise they would just be a part of the scenery. Though to me it's like the player is an afterthought to who "he is". He is all the time taking matters into his own hands and like I said you just watch it happen. If his action cause problems or drama in the story the player has no obligation to feel responsible or remorseful about it because ultimately it has nothing to do with them, they are just along for the ride.
A side note about the player agency, it's not just the story aspect that bugs me really. Even the interactions with the characters you are trying to connect with are very liner. It's very much "those two character connecting" because the MC, again, has already decided what he is going to do 99% of the time and the player very rarely even has a choice of what they want to even say to someone let alone how to go about it because "his character" takes over and your opinion as a player is just ignored again. I know you said the player and the MC aren't the same person but there can't be such a separation between the two. It makes it very hard for me to even get invested in it because it just feels like I'm watching some else's story just to watch it.
That is true. I don't think the player should feel responsible for his actions when no option was given. But that won't be true for all situations. There will be many situations where the player will be able to choose if he wants to try and connect with that character or not. Actually, I think ways to change affection are behind choices. But do notice, affection doesn't means the others are liking you more. It can go both ways.
The thing about VNs, to me, is that they are somewhere between a graphic novel and a game. I have to give players some agency, but at the same time, I can't give them all the freedom they want. I need to select when I want to give this freedom. Because in the end, it is just one guy working in his spare time to make a game. I wish it were possible to give players total freedom of choice, like when I DM D&D/Pathfinder, but that is not the case.
