Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.08] [Vénus Noire]

[Avaron1974]

I wouldn't go that far. It is certainly true that Rowan is a normal man, on the otherhand he has practical experience in a way that Neither twins have when it comes to leading a coherent military force.

By power I was more referring to the kind the twins have with regards to superior physical and magical abilities.

Rowan, while far more military minded, is just a human. I see people expecting him to grow in power and challenge the twins but he doesn't have that kind if ability.

Sure he could build a force on the side and eventually overthrow them in a war but he doesn't have anywhere near the capability to go against the twins in a fight, they would tear him apart, while eating breakfast, and reading a newspaper and having a massive hangover.

Not only that but the woman (or women) he loves are also there so going straight up against them would by madness.

I just find it hilarious that people are expecting to overthrow 2 quite powerful demons.

The only way he'd have a chance would be to set the twins against each other or join up with a more powerful demon. Either way it's not going to happen how some here think it will.

The most amusing thing is when people complain about being the bitch of those 2 demons when it's right there is the description.

What are they thinking the game is?

 

[05841035411]

Oh, I could also see Rowan catching them in some clever trap (it is his whole schtick from the war, after all, and they are letting him plan their battles), or using his position in their employ to raise an elite force loyal to himself over the twins - or perhaps raise a force of powerful, mindless beasts and use those. They don't know loyalty, after all.

The twins are only two demons, even if they are powerful; indeed, that's the reason they're hiding their return from the world. There are plenty of ways that Rowan could eventually overcome his lack of personal power and kill them, because being able to effectively run an army is simply that much of an advantage.

Really, Jezera's Secret Maid Service is a bigger obstacle to Rowan's ambitions than her being able to kill him with a few magic whips - he literally has no idea when he's being watched, or how closely. Just look at how much he had to plan to aid a simple escape, when the prisoner was someone that Jezera didn't terribly care about, already had the right to move freely, and barely needed any supplies.

Ah, and if I remember my Bad Ends correctly, Rowan is under the belief that he can kill Jezera, if he's lucky and has the advantage of surprise. He fails, because Jezera was expecting it, but it does imply that she's not that far out of his league.

That said, I do agree that some people are a bit hasty to see late-game content when they've barely conquered their first realm. I understand the desire to see the conclusion of a good game, but one does still need to see the middle of it written if it's to be satisfying .

 

[manscout]

Oh, I could also see Rowan catching them in some clever trap (it is his whole schtick from the war, after all, and they are letting him plan their battles), or using his position in their employ to raise an elite force loyal to himself over the twins - or perhaps raise a force of powerful, mindless beasts and use those. They don't know loyalty, after all.

The twins are only two demons, even if they are powerful; indeed, that's the reason they're hiding their return from the world. There are plenty of ways that Rowan could eventually overcome his lack of personal power and kill them, because being able to effectively run an army is simply that much of an advantage.

Really, Jezera's Secret Maid Service is a bigger obstacle to Rowan's ambitions than her being able to kill him with a few magic whips - he literally has no idea when he's being watched, or how closely. Just look at how much he had to plan to aid a simple escape, when the prisoner was someone that Jezera didn't terribly care about, already had the right to move freely, and barely needed any supplies.

Ah, and if I remember my Bad Ends correctly, Rowan is under the belief that he can kill Jezera, if he's lucky and has the advantage of surprise. He fails, because Jezera was expecting it, but it does imply that she's not that far out of his league.

That said, I do agree that some people are a bit hasty to see late-game content when they've barely conquered their first realm. I understand the desire to see the conclusion of a good game, but one does still need to see the middle of it written if it's to be satisfying .

To add to your point, here's a few more examples of the Twins not being invincible and invulnerable:

Spoiler: Examples

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Those are the physical examples, but there are a few others where one can infer they aren't that powerful:

Spoiler: Other examples

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A few other examples that are more my personal pet peeves rather than something the game outright says:

Spoiler: Just ranting at this point

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[05841035411]

A few other examples that are more my personal pet peeves rather than something the game outright says:

Spoiler: Just ranting at this point

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[TheSexinati]

Why did they need an army/riot to take Raeve's keep?

Generally because when it comes to siege warfare, when you are the attacking force, You need a force at least ten-times larger (Than the number of defenders) in order to have a fair chance at success (This is true even to this day).

And no, I am not joking. Attacking a fortified position is fraught with much peril, because even though the Defenders will be in much smaller numbers, they have almost all the advantages. Arrow loops, murderholes, sometimes even artillery in the form of Perriers or Springalds. If the enemy knows beforehand that they are about to be besieged, they can also set up wooden hoardings (Unless they have a castle that has machicolations).

If they also know that an attack is eminent, they can also set up some really nasty shit for the enemy in the field. Caltrops, miniature ditches with emplanted spikes, cheval de frises, anything that will make an advance/entry really fucking nasty and devastating.

Do your orcs feel that simply 'laddering' up is a good idea? Expect people to be dropping innocuous things such as fire heated sand (Which is probably anywhere within excess of 300-400 degrees celsius), boiling water, javelins, stones and perhaps even the contents of the piss or shit bucket. Is that what I want to do... escalade that enemy castle over-yonder "No siree, fuck that shit I say!"

So if you don't want to die in these minutiae of horrific ways, then there are only two relatively painless ways of going about a siege, starving out the enemy... or undermining the walls.

"But what about Artillery!" Some might be saying. It certainly looks cool in Hollywood, but the reality is that siege engines are not really great at battering walls into bits. Their primary usage seems to have been destroying the tops of walls, so that the enemy has fewer safe places to launch shit at your people. Ancient/Medieval siege artillery just don't have the effective power to batter through large stone walls 'efficiently' nor 'effectively', unless you are talking the 'Big guns' of the Ancient/medieval world... such as perhaps Warwolf (A fuck-off huge trebuchet), or possibly 'Three Talent' fuck-off huge Balistae. When it comes to knocking walls down into nothing... you want cannon. But even in this situation, you will likely have to clear out the rubble first before you have an access point.

Even if you manage to get through the castle/fortification walls, you will now likely have to attack the keep. Which is yet another large, fortified position... likely with all the arrow-loops, murderholes and 'tricks-of-the-trade' bits that make attacking a fortified position hell-on-earth for the enemy attacker.

This is why, in my opinion... in IRL history, most attackers resorted to two methods of resolving a siege. Either they asked for their opponents to surrender within three days (Or be liable to being utterly slaughtered upon defeat), or they played the long game of starving out their enemy whilst hoping that their own forces had enough food and logistical support to out-wait their opponents.

That said, this could be shook up by the addition of magic, depending on the strength and effect. Either way, attacking the fortress with a large-ish force of Orc's is not necessarily unwarranted, because if Rowan had failed in opening up the gates for their entry... those orcs would likely have had to go about camping it up and waiting for the Demon's to figure out a way to do something. Because attacking fortified, static positions... is just plain shitty no matter which Era you are in.

 

[AlexWildfire]

A thing that im not understanding in the last update , it's the point of trying to do the rastedel plotline the hero way that trying to do it only causes problems? Saving Delane only makes her go to the city that the twins want to conquer next and in universe makes it so the next villages taken are made slaves for the orcs , and deciding to ally with Duke Werden makes the twins and tarish correctly guess that, if Rowan, a man with every reason to try and betray them, goes with the guy that is the less likely to obey them its because he has some reason beyond what he say to them and in the end the scene ends with Rowan saying he is going to kill werden. So my point is , if Rowan does not find a way to change that, what difference going with the duke makes compared with going with others? From what i see he makes adras agree with not burning the city of they open the gates either way so im not understanding the plan there.

In another point i so "Love" to repeat in every coment i make, am i the only one that finds it a bit strange how the story seems to go way to quick in certain things? Like, the story has not even gone beiond the first realm and theres already one character that says to Rowan that he is the true strength behind the twins (Warning, geting off point here) , wich is not untrue since from all i see from them without Rowan they would have lost because all other npcs seem to only folow them because of. A- They are the children of the last dark lord B- They give oportunitys or C- they just play along for their own reasons. Not totaly sure about that last one, but Arzyl seems to give that vibe. i might be wrong since i dont know if in the events that i have not seen it shows more but the twins seem to not be that dangerous, they are powerfull, but in the end they seem to only have one trick and to much pride and arrogance to be true conquerors, Adras is strong but if erraged seems to be easy to defeat, he almost losses to a orc and only does not because he cheats with his one power, Jezera has ilusions and the ribons, and that as far as i know is it, she is a wana be intrigue mistress but probably would be defeated if put against someone o realy knows how to do it (Going back to the point). Then we have the event chain of Cliohna, in wich something starts and we get the transiction off the relacionship betwen the two from , guy who does the things and the researsher ,to Rowan aparently becoming someone that Cliohna wants to break because of her pride (Did not remember any event chains that seem slow). All in all the point of this is, its the "Rowan starting to get more influence in the court of the twins" going to be a thing before the second to last or last realm or the skordred thing is just a thing and i am over-complicating that?

 

[spitfire335]

Maybe in the future befriending some characters like Cliohna, Greyhide or X'zaratl will be the key to backstab the twins. Since none of them seem overly loyal to the twins but instead having their own interests that just happened to align with the demons for the time being.

Those three were the first I was going to talk about too. Those characters and indeed more than a few others have motivations of their own. Nothing is preventing Rowan from currying favor and establishing stronger relationships to the castle denizens. He will likely be given more power as the game progresses. I doubt the developers want the player to feel weak in the middle and end of the game. Likely Rowan will get more powerful in some way as we progress. Who knows maybe the old demon lord's spirit might show up to tell Rowan he is disappointing in his children and wants him to teach them a lesson? It is a fantasy world, anything can happen. For my dominant corrupt Rowan I know where I want this to go, corrupt and seduce everyone to Rowan's side. Gain power, and overthrow Andras (or change him into a sexy red succubus, she can keep the cock or not doesn't matter). Jezera I feel may actually not mind joint rule with Rowan, provided he is corrupt and powerful enough.

 

[TheSexinati]

Who knows maybe the old demon lord's spirit might show up to tell Rowan he is disappointing in his children and wants him to teach them a lesson?

Ghost of Karnas: "Maaaaaaan, I raised some fucking pussies. Oi... you... guy how helped kill me... Yes you. Oi, Teach 'em a lesson!"

Rowan: "Man... I should lay off of these Drugs."

*Ten minutes later*

Andras: "I just saw my dad... what an absolute cunt, no wonder why you killed him!"

Rowan: "Yeah..."

Andras: "..."

Rowan: "..."

Andras: "I'm not like him... Am I?"

Rowan: "Nah, you're not as much of a cunt. So you're good!"

Gain ten Influence with Andras

Andras x Rowan route started

 

[hencuka]

Does anyone know how can I achieve that Helayna will stay in the castle? It's my third run and she keep escaping.

 

[manscout]

Does anyone know how can I achieve that Helayna will stay in the castle? It's my third run and she keep escaping.

Unless something changed, to get Helayna to stay you need to claim her for yourself when capturing Raeve's keep (which means she doesn't get gangraped), after week 30 her event where she regains her senses should play, choose either "Rowan told her it wasn't her fault" or "Rowan put his arm around her", then choose "Rowan confessed he returned Helayna's love", and then choose "Rowan kissed her".

If you do all of the above she won't try to escape and will stay in the castle.

 

[Xypher]

So I tried a playthrough with Rowan doing extreme/rough stuff with Alexia, while she remains a loyal, loving and obedient wife to him, while having high corruption and acting as a kinky slut (to him only). Only doing minor cheat stuff cuz she's forced to (while keeping her vows and remaining loyal to him).

I really love it!

 

[05841035411]

So I tried a playthrough with Rowan doing extreme/rough stuff with Alexia, while she remains a loyal, loving and obedient wife to him, while having high corruption and acting as a kinky slut (to him only). Only doing minor cheat stuff cuz she's forced to (while keeping her vows and remaining loyal to him).

I really love it!

(emphasis added)

Does that include Alexia helping Helyana escape, you finding out, then ratting her out to Andras, agreeing to whip her, then NOT using Jezera's drugs to help her?

Because I saw that chain of events in the code, and wow, Rowan came across as a total jerk there.

Ah, and does that also include Rowan sending people to the salt mine for insulting Alexia, while she looks on in approval? Because that looked fun, but I always choose the other branch in that event...

 

[Xypher]

(emphasis added)

Does that include Alexia helping Helyana escape, you finding out, then ratting her out to Andras, agreeing to whip her, then NOT using Jezera's drugs to help her?

Because I saw that chain of events in the code, and wow, Rowan came across as a total jerk there.

Ah, and does that also include Rowan sending people to the salt mine for insulting Alexia, while she looks on in approval? Because that looked fun, but I always choose the other branch in that event...

Not really.

Ratting out Alexia to the twins wasn't really in-character for that playthrough, since Rowan, while having high corruption, use Alexia like a sex toy and have sex and cheat with other chars (whether he wants to or not), he's still devoted to her as a loving caring husband, in a depraved and twisted way. Also I like having Rowan share Alexia with his other lovers, while still maintaining their devotion to each other (Like the 3some with Liurial).

Also I haven't tried sending the dudes who insulted Alexia to the mines, since at that time, Rowan didn't have a high corruption to have it as an option.

I might do the whipping scene again just to see if there is dialogue change if chose not to use Jezera's drug but still have a high relationship with Alexia.

 

[05841035411]

Not really.

Ratting out Alexia to the twins wasn't really in-character for that playthrough, since Rowan, while having high corruption, use Alexia like a sex toy and have sex and cheat with other chars (whether he wants to or not), he's still devoted to her as a loving caring husband, in a depraved and twisted way. Also I like having Rowan share Alexia with his other lovers, while still maintaining their devotion to each other (Like the 3some with Liurial).

Also I haven't tried sending the dudes who insulted Alexia to the mines, since at that time, Rowan didn't have a high corruption to have it as an option.

I might do the whipping scene again just to see if there is dialogue change if chose not to use Jezera's drug but still have a high relationship with Alexia.

If memory serves, it's not actually possible to whip Alexia (sans drug) if Rowan has a decent relationship with her; if the player tries, he says something to the effect of "Oh my god, what was I thinking, I could never do that!" and the player has to choose one of the alternatives.

 

[pizbia]

Cliohna is clearly best girl

By far the best secondary character

 

[Xypher]

If memory serves, it's not actually possible to whip Alexia (sans drug) if Rowan has a decent relationship with her; if the player tries, he says something to the effect of "Oh my god, what was I thinking, I could never do that!" and the player has to choose one of the alternatives.

What if having high corruption for Rowan and still have a high relationship with Alexia?

 

[05841035411]

What if having high corruption for Rowan and still have a high relationship with Alexia?

It only checks if Rowan's relationship with Alexia is below 45, and for a bit of flavor variant, whether Alexia is closer to Jezera or Andras. The relevant code:

Spoiler

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[Xypher]

Is the scene guide updated yet?

 

[darkzk]

Is the new version late November still public?

 

[UncleVT]

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Hello everyone,

So the final monthly release is out now, and we finished as we started by getting it out on time as always. It was a fun experiment, but I think bi-monthly is going to work better in the long run as previously discussed. Bit of an odd month, we shot up and at one point it looked like we might reach 9k, only to drop back down to just below where we started. Weird, but we push on as always.
So, what is happening for the first bi-monthly release, you ask? As we stated previously, nothing is changing about how we work, so it will be double the size of a normal release (40-50k words, 16 CGs plus variants). The main focus for the next one is Rastedel, Winter will be working on it primarily for both months, and he has drafted on Hooky to help him in that front as well, who'll also be doing a few smaller events. Rein is working on his next Cliohna event as his main priority, but may also add to the Rastedel content if he has time.
On the art front, Sommy is working on the first of two backgrounds (as you can see above) as we work to eliminate the backlog. MDN has sent over the sketches for the first lot of CGs, which I have begun sharing with the backers, and Keidi is making generic sprites we can use for non-important characters.
Going forward, our current plan is to finish Rastedel over the next few months, then switch focus to the remaining content needed to close out act one. This includes the alternative race recruitment narrative (goblins), the Arthdale restoration side quest, and the act one character arcs for all the major NPCs. At the same time we'll be implementing the mechanical improvements, and continuing to work on eliminating the art backlog (there's only twenty-odd missing CGs now, which is impressive as at one point it was around a hundred). We'll also be looking at visual polishing, and sound design, to give it a more professional feel for the eventual release, while beginning pre-production on the first setting of the second act - The Frozen Tundra.

That's all for today. I'll be doing another one of these next month to update you all on the progress of the release.