Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.08] [Vénus Noire]

[Brother Lui]

I'll be playing Elder Scrolls 7 with my fridge before the game is done.

If we take 5th of August 2016 the start of the game not calculating the time used for the 1st release then already the developers have used more than 7 years to reach this stage. In these 7 years developers who loved their work could easily deliver 7 games or 3A Companies have finished games like Cyberpunk, Starfield, Baldur's Gate 3 and so many more. I doubt that they really trying their best to finish the game as long it cover expenses they will continue their own path. It is one more bad example of the gaming industry especially because there are milking people for them to act in a role of a responsible developer. The game itself is a good concept but the delivery is the worst.

 

[Dofus 4 life]

That's who the protag was at the start of the game. There's plenty that happens and choices he makes that allows you to evolve the character into a dark, evil, plotting SOB.

wait really?? then im playing...

 

[Rein]

Anybody who thinks they can do better is free to start their own projects.

Seriously. Since apparently it's that easy.

 

[Nick_Rock90]

Anybody who thinks they can do better is free to start their own projects.

Seriously. Since apparently it's that easy.

That is like saying that if you dont like your country then go somewhere else like an island and become the president of it
ppl should be free to complain or to give a structured critique if the problem is too big and obvious while not have to do that thing tho

 

[Filipis]

Anybody who thinks they can do better is free to start their own projects.

Seriously. Since apparently it's that easy.

"Perfection is the enemy of progress."

Sometimes you, as a developer, have to know when to stop polishing a product before releasing it. Usually, that is the job of the project manager. Determining when is the right time to release and how to release a pleasant/functioning product is key to success.

If I was earning more than enough money to afford being a game developer full-time, I would certainly try and keep that position as long as possible. Usually, by being timely (not mistaken for punctual) and consistent.

A lack of focus and direction is what ends up causing a 7-year development cycle for an unfinished game. And no, I am not comparing it to AAA studio games like Cyberpunk. Just ask the developer of Stardew Valley.
The man spent 4 years developing a complete game, starting from scratch without any necessary skills (programming & design). Even today, he still pushes out massive content & QoL updates to a single-purchase game.

It's about your character as a developer.

 

[justletmeinplees]

Definitely not easy, especially with a game of this quality. But there's understandably a point where the fan base gets frustrated with the direction or time table for development. Someone paying at the cheapest option on patreon from the beginning would have paid over 300 dollars for a game that's still working through part 1.

Imo it feels like star citizen, years of work, tons of money and the dev's just keep working on side projects while the finish product never gets any closer. And at 16 Thousand dollars a Month, criticism is only fair/natural at the pace of progress.

 

[Buffalo Fred]

If it's a 3 part game and part 1 is expected to be done next year, 8 years and counting. Does that mean we should expect 15-16 years to go until this is finished...that's a lot of time to wait for any game.

 

[Filipis]

Definitely not easy, especially with a game of this quality. But there's understandably a point where the fan base gets frustrated with the direction or time table for development. Someone paying at the cheapest option on patreon from the beginning would have paid over 300 dollars for a game that's still working through part 1.

Imo it feels like star citizen, years of work, tons of money and the dev's just keep working on side projects while the finish product never gets any closer. And at 16 Thousand dollars a Month, criticism is only fair/natural at the pace of progress.

Go take a look over at Ravager's Discord & development cycle.

They push out regular monthly updates that are minor (adding actual Voice Acting to scenes or more artwork to older scenes) and larger content/story updates less frequently.

But they have a whole-ass development team setup, and it is clear that resources are not being wasted.
The game is on track to being fully voice-acted (main & side-quests) and completely fleshed out (side-quests have actual lore and deepen the characters you may meet during the main story).

I don't know when they originally started the project, but at least it is clear it will be finished eventually.

 

[anon6076]

Anybody who thinks they can do better is free to start their own projects.

Seriously. Since apparently it's that easy.

Do it yourself is covered in demagogue #101
But you can show us your jira dashboards, maybe we will be ashamed. The game was stalling progress for years.

 

[Rein]

I don't have to prove anything to you people. End of the day, I'm doing what I enjoy, for people who enjoy what I'm doing, and I'm getting paid for it. What more is there to want from life?

We're wrapping up the last elements of act 1. Is there a degree of scope creep present? Obviously. Was research done whether it would be better to cut certain storylines and wrap up act 1 faster or realize the original vision? Yes there was! Were you made aware of it? No, because no sane person involves pirates in their business decision making process.

 

[FluffyBunnyCarrotStick]

Yeah, I had high hopes for this game once... long ago and even supported its development; however, I soon became aware of the lack of focus. The early-game rewrites/direction changes also destroyed my enjoyment as well. It's a mess unfortunately, and after so many years of treadmilling already, I don't see it ever getting completed. Great concept, just poor planning and execution.

 

[Sillnill]

I don't have to prove anything to you people. End of the day, I'm doing what I enjoy, for people who enjoy what I'm doing, and I'm getting paid for it. What more is there to want from life?

We're wrapping up the last elements of act 1. Is there a degree of scope creep present? Obviously. Was research done whether it would be better to cut certain storylines and wrap up act 1 faster or realize the original vision? Yes there was! Were you made aware of it? No, because no sane person involves pirates in their business decision making process.

I bought the game on steam after having played through a few times. Didn't want to play again until it was finished and saw the "act" idea thinking at least we will get one part finished game. That's years ago now.

You say pirates are left out of the loop but even as a paying customer I fail to see how that invalidates the feedback. I don't believe I'll see the full story in my lifetime if things go at this speed.

 

[zandalari]

I don't have to prove anything to you people. End of the day, I'm doing what I enjoy, for people who enjoy what I'm doing, and I'm getting paid for it. What more is there to want from life?

We're wrapping up the last elements of act 1. Is there a degree of scope creep present? Obviously. Was research done whether it would be better to cut certain storylines and wrap up act 1 faster or realize the original vision? Yes there was! Were you made aware of it? No, because no sane person involves pirates in their business decision making process.

I last played the game more than a year ago but due to the updates always borking the saves just opted for waiting. Any rough estimates of when you expect Act I to be done? Great game, but a bit too big to constantly replay it with every update.

 

[Rein]

You say pirates are left out of the loop but even as a paying customer I fail to see how that invalidates the feedback. I don't believe I'll see the full story in my lifetime if things go at this speed.

Which is why, my kind supporter, act 2 will not be following act 1 event structure, because otherwise yes, we would never finish it in time.

 

[wei270]

Which is why, my kind supporter, act 2 will not be following act 1 event structure, because otherwise yes, we would never finish it in time.

thank you i was following this game since before it was on steam, act 1 the way you guys do it does server a good introduction to what is going on. and you guys did a really good job at introducing the problem to the player.

i assume act 2 is when the Mc try to figure out how to over come the problem.

 

[Slaylife]

I don't have to prove anything to you people. End of the day, I'm doing what I enjoy, for people who enjoy what I'm doing, and I'm getting paid for it. What more is there to want from life?

We're wrapping up the last elements of act 1. Is there a degree of scope creep present? Obviously. Was research done whether it would be better to cut certain storylines and wrap up act 1 faster or realize the original vision? Yes there was! Were you made aware of it? No, because no sane person involves pirates in their business decision making process.

I agree there that if one loves what one is doing then there is nothing more important that one could wish from their job.

Though...have you ever before done a several decades long project? People have a hard time promising/imagining where they are going to be in just a year from now on when changes in their life often happen suddenly and hardly always for the better. Never mind a decade from now on or later.

I personally wish you the best luck possible in completing this project to a most satisfactory outcome both for you and everyone who follows it. Alas given how very few (probably none yet?) fan games were steadily continued for two decades or longer to their eventual completion it makes people a bit sceptical whether it will be ever completed unless the following acts/chapters are like 30% the size of the 1st one at most.

 

[hakarlman]

Imagine you have a large piece of bread 2x2 feet, but you only have 1 small spoonful of butter, and you try to scrape it across all that bread. That's this game. But maybe I'm wrong, I hope I'm wrong, gonna try it again! (it's been like 2 years since I played it)

EDIT:
UnrenForAll.bat ---> 54 characters? SERIOUSLY? ---> wtf lol --> Oh boy ---> *Calm down, remain positive.*

EDIT: Hey guys, be honest, do you think the dev would make more or less money had he just focused on 4-5 characters? Because his patron numbers are pretty darn good, but having so many kinks and so many different characters prevents me from subbing to his patreon, because there's so much content I'm just not into it, but clearly he found his target audience which is great! This question is more academic out of curiosity, not to be condescending or disrespectful.

EDIT: Like in the beginning o the game it focuses on the dynamics between MC, his wife, Andras, and Andras's sister, which was interesting, but then it branches out into so many different directions.

 

[cleanfeel]

Imagine you have a large piece of bread 2x2 feet, but you only have 1 small spoonful of butter, and you try to scrape it across all that bread. That's this game. But maybe I'm wrong, I hope I'm wrong, gonna try it again!

Imagine building a house where instead of finishing one room at a time, you start every room simultaneously. You keep adding new rooms and features before the existing ones are complete. The house becomes a maze of unfinished spaces.
---
Think of an artist who starts a painting but keeps adding various elements to the canvas without completing any part. The painting, which began with a clear vision, now becomes overcrowded and loses its focus.

Same ideas.

 

[Ellioto]

Did arzyl get the art/scene she was missing last time?

 

[Rein]

You keep adding new rooms and features before the existing ones are complete.

The problem with this comparison is that since the addition of the goblin plot - which was promised a long time ago - no new characters have been introduced to the game.

We are, as of now, finishing all the rooms. People should be happy.