Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.10] [Vénus Noire]

[MilesKiyaAnny]

bored af. let see what new.....this time i guess i should try immoral romance...

 

[moonhowler1972]

Anybody who thinks they can do better is free to start their own projects.

Seriously. Since apparently it's that easy.

Aaaand this is how devs lose respect. Do I think I could do better? No, because it's not my field. Did I use to be a paying subscriber? Yes, I did. Did I cancel my subscription because this game went from top of my list to 'meh' levels as it degenerated into coming across as being stuck in a development swamp and struggling to get out of it? Yes, I did that too. Crack the shits all you want, but that will only exacerbate issues, not fix them. Seeds Of Chaos looks to be sinking into the same morass that Kingdom Of Deception has been putrefying in for a while. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Nym85]

I agree there that if one loves what one is doing then there is nothing more important that one could wish from their job.

Though...have you ever before done a several decades long project? People have a hard time promising/imagining where they are going to be in just a year from now on when changes in their life often happen suddenly and hardly always for the better. Never mind a decade from now on or later.

I personally wish you the best luck possible in completing this project to a most satisfactory outcome both for you and everyone who follows it. Alas given how very few (probably none yet?) fan games were steadily continued for two decades or longer to their eventual completion it makes people a bit sceptical whether it will be ever completed unless the following acts/chapters are like 30% the size of the 1st one at most.

I mean I can tell you who exactly is the problem with the game. Alexia. Alexia is just a porn delivery subplot that doesn't advance the story in any significant way. Goblins, Fey, the many inhabitants of the castle all help advance the plot by setting up significant hooks for the future and letting Rowan have a chance against the Twins or letting him do a better job helping them.

Problem is, half the patreons are probably just here to watch the redhead get stuffed with big cocks. And hey, it's not my thing but it is clearly popular. It could also have been an entirely separate game. maybe there will be a pay off with Alexia betraying Rowan at the end of Act 2 when he tries to make his play against the Twins. But I am not sure it's worth how much dev time she needs.

 

[dkatryl]

For sure, that's a good idea. Just change a couple lines to indicate that they are separate occasions from the initial events. And the more they repeat, the more the corruption rises in Alexia and could potentially lead to Andras getting Alexia pregnant.

I think that has been my biggest issue with the game and trying to spread out development to hit so many varied kinks.

Great if you like all of the kinks, but leads to feeling a bit thin if you only care about a smaller subset of them.

So incorporating 'repeat' events would definitely give more bang for the buck, especially if you can then leverage in the stat checks to trigger different versions, so that, for example, as Rowan/Alexia get more corrupted, they would trigger progressively more in each event.

Oh well, food for thought from a dirty pirate.

 

[Filipis]

I think that has been my biggest issue with the game and trying to spread out development to hit so many varied kinks.

Great if you like all of the kinks, but leads to feeling a bit thin if you only care about a smaller subset of them.

So incorporating 'repeat' events would definitely give more bang for the buck, especially if you can then leverage in the stat checks to trigger different versions, so that, for example, as Rowan/Alexia get more corrupted, they would trigger progressively more in each event.

Oh well, food for thought from a dirty pirate.

This.
"If you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing noone."

Every game needs focus. Stick to some fetishes you consider worth your time & effort. Yeah, you will lose out on potential customers that would've supported your project for those particular fetishes - but your development pipeline is now streamlined and on track. You don't have to concern yourself with 50 variables, but maybe only 20. Feature creep is a real bad thing for a good reason. Even if the developer sticks to their guns and has no problem working on so many different things for so long, you lose customer's trust.
What a Legend has phenomenal hand drawn art style, but the 1-update-a-year cadence is visibly killing interest in the game.

Nobody cares if your game is perfect when it comes out... If it comes out a decade later than expected.

I was seriously considering buying the game on Steam during the Autumn Sale, because I recognize the effort that went into the game (and I am one of those Alexia stans), with the artwork being sublime. I eventually gave up on the idea when I checked the development cycle... Where 3 games were promised to tell the whole story, but 3 years later and not even part 1 is finished. I can't in good conscience support that financially.

The game is excellent because I am new here. I'm sure my opinion would be much more sour if I were here from the start.

 

[Joshy92]

My favourite scene so far is when that bull dude is fucking Alexia and Rowan can watch and jack off
I would do the same in his position
Alexia is so awesome

Also I think everyone should give the dev a break
It can't be easy making a game especially one with so many branches & plots like this one

 

[Brother Lui]

My 2 cents would be :

1-Complains show interest which for any project is good.
2-You love to call this site pirates and if I remember correct you were very hating the fact that the game landed here but many of us we see a game and if we like it or like how the developers treat their customers we either buy it on Steam etc or support on Patreon etc. So in reality you are hating advertising which I know could be a hard bitch but never the less even Bad Advertisement is still Advertisement.
3-Time is a rare element in human's life, when you want it you can never have enough of it.
4-Fame, any person who spends time trying to accomplish something gains Fame bad or good. People like Swen Vincke and the rest in Larian Studios with Baldur's Gate 3 earned the fame that they can move mountains in what is called game industry, others like Bethesda earned the fame that no game will be delivered without bugs, people who like to deliver finished products gain this fame and so goes on for everyone else . So in the end it is what everyone wants and that he gets.
5-Profit is compared not only with what I gain but a summary of many things. What kind of Fame I gathered around my name, what I will be able to do next with what time is left and of course how much money I earned with 1 project running. But also there is a calculation did I earned good fame which would benefit me? How much time have I spent and if I have delivered 8 completed games in this time frame what would have I gained.

So many considerations for a person who consider him self a developer and whatever any of the others would never matter but what you will say with your self is what matters most and as you said above everything goes as you wished for.

So never mind me I am old and sure I can't even try to fix my life and sure I won't try to fix others life. Your ally is your self in a time limit. Hope all the best for your dreams.

 

[Akkarin69]

Also I think everyone should give the dev a break
It can't be easy making a game especially one with so many branches & plots like this one

But at the end of the day, overestimation is a problem in itself. Especially for a small team or a solo developer. Noone forces you to add all kind of different branches, paths and characters in a single game. Better focus on just a few and once you're done, you can always make a second game with all the other characters and options to explore if you still want to.

This is actually a problem that occurs with many developers and games here: Instead of focusing on 2 or 3 characters they add more and more girls until they either burn out and give up or deliver a game with way too few scenes per character and no depth in the development of those characters. Or you're stuck with a development cycle of way too many months per update, since they need to take care of all the possible paths and variations.

 

[Doublefrost]

So many trolls. I just wanted to see if someone posted the changelog.

 

[Ciel892]

Holy shit same

 

[SaddamHussein]

I don't have to prove anything to you people. End of the day, I'm doing what I enjoy, for people who enjoy what I'm doing, and I'm getting paid for it. What more is there to want from life?

We're wrapping up the last elements of act 1. Is there a degree of scope creep present? Obviously. Was research done whether it would be better to cut certain storylines and wrap up act 1 faster or realize the original vision? Yes there was! Were you made aware of it? No, because no sane person involves pirates in their business decision making process.

Wait wait hold on so all 7 years of this game and you guys "wrapping up the last elements of act1" ??? now my brother in christ you have no right to talk shit to people who "complain" here they are right to complain in 9 years CDproject red make cyberpunk fixed the bugs and made a whole as dlc to their game and GTA 6 is coming.

 

[Rein]

You people seriously have to stop comparing us to AAA developers.

You can shittalk us by comparing us to Aura-dev. That guy's fucking amazing, mad respect for him.

But you know, let's play a game. Imagine you get your hands on SoC right now, and you get full control over development. What's your next move? What storylines get axed, and which are finished, as you move the plot to act 2?

 

[perles75]

my god, people are boring... always the same old complaint that the devs have answered over and over... what's the point of repeating it all the time. Just go play another game for a while if it's such a suffering for you.

 

[perles75]

Wait wait hold on so all 7 years of this game and you guys "wrapping up the last elements of act1" ??? now my brother in christ you have no right to talk shit to people who "complain" here they are right to complain in 9 years CDproject red make cyberpunk fixed the bugs and made a whole as dlc to their game and GTA 6 is coming.

yeah, because that's exactly the same budget and scope

 

[EvolutionKills]

Wait wait hold on so all 7 years of this game and you guys "wrapping up the last elements of act1" ??? now my brother in christ you have no right to talk shit to people who "complain" here they are right to complain in 9 years CDproject red make cyberpunk fixed the bugs and made a whole as dlc to their game and GTA 6 is coming.

Have you checked the game recently? It's a 7 year old project with 7 years worth of content. Sure, the game isn't complete, but there is still a metric fuck ton of scenes in the game currently. The last version I downloaded (0.4.01) had 230 scenes in the gallery, not counting variations (high/mid/low corruption or love). That's an average of 32.8 scene per year. Plus, this is hands-down one of the most imaginative and well written VN's on this site. Easily up there with Now & Then, Pale Carnations, The Last Sovereign, and Crimson High.

I mean, compare this to Milfy City, which went dark for a few years before popping back up as 'finished'. Or how about The Adventurous Couple or TwoSides, both of which have been rebooted/restarted multiple times now. A House in the Rift? Still walking around that same house trapped in the same ether 4 years later (currently has 84 scenes in the gallery). Summertime Saga is also from 2016, and still not complete either (which has 149 scenes according to the wiki, but that includes duplicates with the 4-some scene). The Last Sovereign, the other high quality dark fantasy RPG? Still going strong since 2016 with regular updates, just like Seeds of Chaos.

This isn't a AAA game with a thousand person staff and a budget in the hundreds of millions, so cool your jets comparing it to CD Projekt RED or Rockstar. If you're gonna compare it to other games, at least use an apples to apples comparison, and not apples to pine cones.

The dev isn't just sitting on their ass doing nothing. There are regular updates with new quality content. Do I hope the game gets finished eventually? Of course. But I think that having solid output for 7 years is a mark in favor of the dev, not against them. Given how frequently games get abandoned, and even 'finished' games frequently sufferer from bad rushed endings? I'm content to see this play out at their pace; so long as they are keeping pace, which they demonstrably have been.

 

[EvolutionKills]

You people seriously have to stop comparing us to AAA developers.

You can shittalk us by comparing us to Aura-dev. That guy's fucking amazing, mad respect for him.

But you know, let's play a game. Imagine you get your hands on SoC right now, and you get full control over development. What's your next move? What storylines get axed, and which are finished, as you move the plot to act 2?

Just stay the course. I don't like the Patreon model, but more power to those who do and make this possible. I'd rather just purchase a game outright, so I bought my copy on Steam. If they can keep you afloat and making content, and you are still invested in the story after 7+ years? Keep going. Dark Fantasy is a pretty rarified space around here, and I'm always happy to see more of it; doubly so when the quality bar is this high. It'll be done when it's done.

 

[rickpool98]

any news on the gallery ?

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

But you know, let's play a game. Imagine you get your hands on SoC right now, and you get full control over development. What's your next move? What storylines get axed, and which are finished, as you move the plot to act 2?

I'm not one of the shit talkers, rather I'm usually one of the defenders, but I do like games... So here is what I would do if I suddenly became the absolute dictator of the Seed of Chaos development team:

First, I wouldn't axe anything that had already been announced/started. I'd sit down with the writing staff and make a list of the open story lines. I would have the writers submit an outline for each of their assigned story lines. Then we would discuss how many more scenes do we need to wrap up each story line. Then we would plot out how many updates we would expect it to take and this would become our schedule. Finally, I would ask the writers not to work on any more side content unless they were well ahead of schedule. (honestly I wouldn't be surprised if much of this is pretty much already being done.)

Then I would put a new roadmap out to the public, essentially laying out the schedule. Story X needs 3 more scenes, Story Y need 5 more scenes, etc. with the caveat that these numbers are estimates and that any given story may end up requiring an extra scene or two. I would also release an estimate of how long before each element is completed as well as an estimated final release date (with a decent buffer factored in because obviously nothing ever goes perfectly according to plan).

I suspect a large part of the frustration people have comes from the unknown. "It's done when it's done" is too vague for most people. One of the most common complaints is from people that believe that this game is is being developed in perpetuity to get those sweet fat stacks of Patreon bucks. Having a date, even if it eventually get delayed, helps set people's minds at ease. It tells them you are working towards an endpoint and there is a plan to get there.


But all games aside, I appreciate all the hard work you guys are putting into this game. And while I also would like to see it wrapped up, I want it done so in a quality manner. And I'm willing to wait. After all I have absolutely mammoth backlog of other stuff to play in the mean time. In a way all the negativity is a positive. Clearly people are invested in the game if one of the major complaints is that it isn't coming out fast enough. Keep up the good work!

 

[manscout]

If something is getting nixed into act 2, I'd guess it would be all the gameplay stuff with map exploration and random events.

Mind you I like all of that stuff a lot, and I'd love a version of SoC that was more focused on route-planning and min-maxing that stuff. But current SoC is much more focused on delivering story elements that have little integration with that part of the game. Alexia stuff, castle staff side-characters stuff, and even the macro story events (orc camp, gobbos, rastedel) are mostly handled by systems completely apart from map exploration (alexia has the job system, castle staff are directly talked to, major story events have their own "hubs" with little to no map exploration involved with dealing with them).

Am I saying the game would be better without the map gameplay? Absolutely not, but the focus of the game's development has shifted to something much more story and character driven, so the first few years of the game that were invested on implementing the sandbox system just feel like they are kinda there, and probably not worth the effort of carrying it over to the sequels unless the devs have structured a much more agile way of developing around it while also utilizing it in a more engaging way that integrates the story elements where the actual bulk of the game's development is focused on.

 

[disso]

I get the whole shift in the art direction but spend more time on finishing off storylines and arcs than redoing all the artwork.