Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.12a Non-Patreon] [Vénus Noire]

[Rein]

Unlikely, there is certain beauty in writing a story where the descent into darkness is 100% willing and avoidable.

 

[Oriandu]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. For a project like Seeds of Chaos to truly succeed it can't just be darkness for the sake of it. A balance has to be struck and so far the dev team for it has struck it quite well.

 

[downdown2]

Question: are the orc and goblin army the only two possibilities for week 60 at the moment? Jezera mentions recruiting other dark races. I couldn't find anything about this on the thread.

 

[monk_56]

Unlikely, there is certain beauty in writing a story where the descent into darkness is 100% willing and avoidable.

100% Willing. Good fucking joke. That'd be like- if you weren't a coerced prisoner. Definitely not this game.

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

This a request for the developers, a plea if you will:

1-For the Clionha route, would it be possible to add a "noncon" choice in which she will mind control/hypnotize rowan against his will?
2-Same for X'zaratl. It would be nice if she rapes you if you deny her too many times and choose specific options.
3-Consequences for messing with too many girls in the form of them going yandere would be fantastic. It would be nice to see them kill each other just to keep you to themselves.

In addition to any issues Patreon may take with any of these suggestions. I don't know that they really fit with the fiction that has already been established.

1 - Keep in mind that a key plot point on Clionha's route is that Rowan seems to be nigh impossible to mind control for very long. Even when he is giving in willingly her control slips far sooner than it should. Rowan says that mind control has never worked on him for long. To make such a statement he must have encountered it a decent amount during the war. So I can only imagine that if she were to try to force her control on him it would turn out similarly to if you choose to resist her control during her scenes, and he might break free even faster as his mind would perceive it as an attack.

2 - X'zaratl really doesn't seem like the raping type. And anytime you turn her down she excepts you decision with dignity and grace. Now don't get me wrong she is a sex demon and I believe she is fully capable of raping given the right circumstances, but I don't believe these are those circumstances.

Also as a note in any case of rape involving the castle denizens, keep in mind that the twins still need Rowan at the moment. Therefore they aren't likely to look kindly on any of their subjects whose deeds would make Rowan less willing to work for them. If Rowan is getting raped by people that are supposed to be serving under him he might start having second thoughts about this job of his. It's the same reason why Alexia isn't constantly being raped by orcs an demons while Rowan is away. Rowan is serving to protect Alexia, if Alexia isn't protected there is no reason for him to serve.

For the record if anyone were to rape Rowan for turning them down, I imagine it would be Andras and Jezera. They are the only ones in a position to get away within the hierarchy. Plus they seem to be the most upset when he turns them down.

3 - Most the Denizens of Chaos seem to have somewhat of a "free love" mind set. Everyone fucks anyone they want to that is willing to fuck. Most of them seem the furthest thing from possessive. However there are a couple of characters I could see going yandere. The first of course is Alexia, she is clearly unhappy with the idea of Rowan sleeping around. So I could imaging a potential series of events that could lead a high corruption/high relationship Alexia down this path. However Alexia isn't really in much of a position right now to do anything about it even if she did go full yandere.

The other potential yandere is Jezera (all of the following would also likely apply to Andras x Alexia as well), in her case it would be in a more "I don't like people touching my things" possessive sort of way. But before that could happen their "relationship" would have to advance quite a bit, right now she just toys with Rowan on occasion to remind him who's in charge. Although, Jezera is also high enough in the heirarchy that she could eliminate nearly all her rivals just by telling everyone that Rowan is off limits. I think the only person she might have to deal with in a more extreme manner would be Alexia.

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

100% Willing. Good fucking joke. That'd be like- if you weren't a coerced prisoner. You must be thinking of a different game there Rein.

I agree that due to the power dynamics involved, prisoners cannot consent. However, it is also common for victims to blames themselves for their abuse. If I said this or done that this wouldn't of happened. And particularly in cases such as statutory or abuse of authority it is not uncommon for the victim to believe they are a willing participant at the time. It is often only from the outside or in retrospect that it apparent how fucked up the situation really is.

 

[Rein]

There are rules. Some will say they are too lenient, others that they too oppresive. SoC development team makes no statements, SoC development teams abides by them so we can continue creating the game. That's all there is to it.

Further discussion on the topic should be take elsewhere.

 

[monk_56]

Question: are the orc and goblin army the only two possibilities for week 60 at the moment? Jezera mentions recruiting other dark races. I couldn't find anything about this on the thread.

In game one yes- and they are not mutually exclusive. The timing of doing both in a single play-through might be tight; especially if you do one of the more time consumptive Orcaide routes. Presumably in game two there will be more faction recruitment narratives. I'd love to recruit some more High elves myself.

There are rules. Some will say they are too lenient, others that they too oppresive. SoC development team makes no statements, SoC development teams abides by them so we can continue creating the game. That's all there is to it.

Further discussion on the topic should be take elsewhere.

Sure, but only out of respect for you and the other Devs. The topic of content breakdown is completely relevant to the game and has no reason not to be discussed here otherwise- unless we are worried about proverbial eye of Mordor glancing this direction and putting a kibosh on the game's numerous rape plots.

 

[DrkRyder]

i'm confused i can't upgrade buildings in my workshop until i talk to the baron but already talked to him and laid waste to the city, but still can't do shit in the workshop and i have the objective of capturing the city even though i already did the raid and can't interact with the city anymore

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

i'm confused i can't upgrade buildings in my workshop until i talk to the baron but already talked to him and laid waste to the city, but still can't do shit in the workshop and i have the objective of capturing the city even though i already did the raid and can't interact with the city anymore

If you've already taken Rastedel then congratulations you are at current the end of the main story. Assuming you've completed all the available research, then you've likely completed all the building upgrades that are currently implemented.

There will be an update released on the 27th, but right now the devs are focusing on fleshing out characters and finishing up side events before finishing off act 1 of the story. If you want more content I would recommend playing through the game again making different choices, there is a lot more content than can be seen in a single play through.

 

[downdown2]

In game one yes- and they are not mutually exclusive. The timing of doing both in a single play-through might be tight; especially if you do one of the more time consumptive Orcaide routes. Presumably in game two there will be more faction recruitment narratives. I'd love to recruit some more High elves myself.



Sure, but only out of respect for you and the other Devs. The topic of content breakdown is completely relevant to the game and has no reason not to be discussed here otherwise- unless we are worried about proverbial eye of Mordor glancing this direction and putting a kibosh on the game's numerous rape plots.

What do you mean game two?

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

What do you mean game two?

The game's story is going to be released in 3 Acts. Each Act will be released as its own game.

 

[mehGusta]

i mean i like the general theme of not having unwilling sex partners. as funny as it sounds, "consent" is the biggest kink i have (but that's mostly because it's always related to other kinks i like, like corruption, sharing and cucking).
but SoC has no rape?
there are multiple instance of implied rape and lots of cases that would be definitely ruled as rape under today's jurisdiction. i've no problem to say that it's on the fringe enough to not count.
however on the sacking of rastedel, we see actual rape happening.

to SoC rape is not a vital part and it never happens to any main character, yes, and i don't want it either. but to say it has no rape, is just not true.

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

i mean i like the general theme of not having unwilling sex partners. as funny as it sounds, "consent" is the biggest kink i have (but that's mostly because it's always related to other kinks i like, like corruption, sharing and cucking).
but SoC has no rape?
there are multiple instance of implied rape and lots of cases that would be definitely ruled as rape under today's jurisdiction. i've no problem to say that it's on the fringe enough to not count.
however on the sacking of rastedel, we see actual rape happening.

to SoC rape is not a vital part and it never happens to any main character, yes, and i don't want it either. but to say it has no rape, is just not true.

During Rastedel, they are careful to mention that there are cubi flying around spreading lustful energies, causing everyone to fuck each other. Therefor the citizens are largely overcome by lust and are participating "willingly."



Of course in modern times this would still be considered rape, for the same reason having sex with a drunk or drugged person is still considered rape even if they were "willing" at the time. Not to mention the power dynamics at play as noted earlier in the discussion. But it isn't rape in the violent, pin you down, and force you sort of way, which seems to be enough to skirt by. Now, I doubt any of these orcs would have taken "no" for an answer. But thanks to cubi magic they don't have to.

 

[Oriandu]

I don't think you can reasonably argue that the orgies during the conquering of Rastodel at the fort at the start are not rape. We know at the very least the threat of violence is looming, we know coercion is involved, we know that in many of the cases the ability to grant consent has been removed. It does definitely skirt by the rules by not being directly depicted, but it would quite honestly be ignorant for Patreon to enforce rules that make it seem like real world tragedies and victimization does not exist, so I would say this kind of thing is a situation where leeway may be specifically and purposefully given.

 

[T51bwinterized]

This is another semantics debate. We're really just debating about a word. In modern culture, there is a deeply heated argument about the definition of the word "Rape".

Does the word apply to all instances of sex where there the level of consent does not reach the standard set by the speaker? Does it only refer to a specific type of non-consensual sex defined by direct force?

Does it apply to situations without direct violence or force but where there was diminished capacity? Does it apply to situations without direct violence or force, but there was some kind of non-violent compulsion like blackmail? What about situations where there is not directly coerced consent, but it happens within a power dynamic that allows one party to dictate terms?

I think that:

A: Regardless of what semantic definition you choose, you should personally try to follow the principles of

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, and be mindful of situations where a partner may have diminished consent. This is the approach I always advise when it comes to sexual ethics or when I've taught classes on the subject. The best way to avoid the entire messiness of crossing the line unthinkingly is to just always be well above the bare minimum of consent requirements. I'm in BDSM, where sexual contract negotiation is actually very common. But, as much as it's mocked outside of BDSM, it's actually good practice.

B: You should not get your sexual ethics from a hentai game. Don't. Seeds of Chaos is not a role model of actual ethical sexual conduct.

C: It is clearly true that the game has situations where the ability of cast members to consent to sex is diminished to some degree. We interpret this as allowed by the rules, as Patreon clearly seeks identifiable and clear rule boundaries. For this reason, our specific policy is to make an effort to avoid DEPICTING ON-SCREEN instances of FORCEFUL Rape.

Anything beyond those points is just arguing about the definition of words. But, that's mostly stupid because Rape means whatever the speaker defines the word to mean. People just shift the definitions a lot because it's a word with loaded connotation and real world legal effects, that may or may not apply depending on what definition you're using.

The actual choosing of where the "Rape Line" is mostly has connotative effects. If two actions are described identically to a listener, and one is called "Rape" and one is called "Nonconsensual Sex", the listener will perceive the one described as Rape worse. At it's best, it serves as a means to QUICKLY AND CLEARLY identify the severity of an action in a case of unambiguous application. At it's worst the definition can be used as a tool of obfuscation. But, do not confuse the semantics with the ethics. An action is just as unethical if you define it as rape or not rape. It is unethical in it's content not in it's description.

So please. Less semantics.

 

[T51bwinterized]

Actually I'm going to put my foot down. Change the topic immediately.

 

[ozzo]

New topic idea: Non sexual sceene you want to see
I would live a "expecting mothers course" as part of the fertility treatment and it would involve Delaine and Emma (Delaine would like to have another human as handmaiden or something) if you are on the Ulcro path. Emma would have given birth at that point and Delaine would be expecting. They would be talking to Alexia about the feeling of being pregnant and so on. Not sure who you could swap in if not on Ulcro path. Cla-min i guess would be the logical choice

 

[Carefree247]

With regards to various characters in Act 1 you mostly get a better understanding of them and know which path to take but for the longest time Cliohna has alluded my understanding, from what I could gather she despises the stagnation and prohibition the force of order pushes(werden is perfect example of all that) as such she's different from others that she does not fully side with chaos but uses them to get what she wants, now from her quest I feel it's incomplete as I'm left with more question than answers compared to the other characters.

Jynx_lucky_j and monk_56 mind helping me understand since you've played the game more than me.

 

[Nym85]

In game one yes- and they are not mutually exclusive. The timing of doing both in a single play-through might be tight; especially if you do one of the more time consumptive Orcaide routes. Presumably in game two there will be more faction recruitment narratives. I'd love to recruit some more High elves myself.

Oh has there been a clarification by the devs that goblin and orc plots are not mutually exclusive? I keep asking but didn't get an answer. Maybe I missed it