Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.13a] [Vénus Noire]

[Fenimor]

I think current skills system is kinda dull, as someone already wrote "you just lose every check until you level up enough and then you just win every check".
Now imagine what could have been instead, different builds with different playstyles, and since this is porn game - sex builds.
For example if there were "charm" and "resist" skills. Charm allows Rowan seduce characters and have sex with them, high charm - Rowan Seducer build. But if you don't invest enough points in resist, then he himself is easily seduced by chars like Jezera, which allows them to manipulate him, and we get sex scenes in sub role - Rowan Sub build. Or invest everything in resist and get moral Rowan, who doesn't have a lot of sex.
Also Alexia could have same skills. And since they are couple, maybe they could share common skill points, so player has to decide: either invest everything in Rowans charm and resist, or maybe in Alexia sex resist, or otherwise she becomes slut, that not able to refuse anyones advances - Cuck Rowan build, while Alexia's seducing skill could allow her to get some useful information for Rowan.
These skill could male/female specific - Gay Lover Rowan build.
Doesn't necessarily means there should be only sex skill, some useful non sex skills alongside could give player some skill points management decisions to make.

 

[Chris20]

I think current skills system is kinda dull, as someone already wrote "you just lose every check until you level up enough and then you just win every check".
Now imagine what could have been instead, different builds with different playstyles, and since this is porn game - sex builds.
For example if there were "charm" and "resist" skills. Charm allows Rowan seduce characters and have sex with them, high charm - Rowan Seducer build. But if you don't invest enough points in resist, then he himself is easily seduced by chars like Jezera, which allows them to manipulate him, and we get sex scenes in sub role - Rowan Sub build. Or invest everything in resist and get moral Rowan, who doesn't have a lot of sex.
Also Alexia could have same skills. And since they are couple, maybe they could share common skill points, so player has to decide: either invest everything in Rowans charm and resist, or maybe in Alexia sex resist, or otherwise she becomes slut, that not able to refuse anyones advances - Cuck Rowan build, while Alexia's seducing skill could allow her to get some useful information for Rowan.
These skill could male/female specific - Gay Lover Rowan build.
Doesn't necessarily means there should be only sex skill, some useful non sex skills alongside could give player some skill points management decisions to make.

Meeh, to many complications, the game mechanics is already complicated as it is, i agree on the fact that ¨lose every check until you level up enough and then you just win every check¨ makes the character build a little redundant but it works, maybe there could be special options or complementary mechanics that help, like those items that increase certain stats, you can buy it throught the globin merchant

 

[gfgdg]

This game mechanic is terrible. The character has 8 different stats to level up. Events on the map occur randomly. Once, starting a new game, I triggered an event on the map that required 8 skill points. 8 skill points, and I only have fucking level 1. Moreover, in most cases, skill checks don’t matter. Some events require you to level up only 1 stat. For example, if you level up only strength, an event will trigger where you can fight Andras on equal footing. But the game has very bad balance, 8 stats, but it’s unclear to the player which stats to level up. But, I always tried to distribute skills evenly, and I was one step away from failure. You can do like me, try to stretch out the game story, complete the main quests on the last day to get more gold. But that’s not all, sometimes the game can take away a skill point that you invested in leveling up. Seriously, I know for sure it was a bug because with each level you get 5 skill points, and they are displayed in white numbers, and the skill points you purchased in the store are displayed in green. I would completely remove the skill system; it is good for nothing in its current form. The worst thing you can do is to create a relationship between the choices made in the game and the number of character skills. For example, to start some event, you will need to go “right-left-left-right-straight” and after all the choices made, you will not have enough skill points; you will not see the sex scene. It will be difficult to do without a walkthrough. You will not only have to know what choices to make, but also have enough character skills. In addition, this is extra work for their coder. If I were them, I would remove 8 stats and leave a maximum of 4 as the main ones. I would also program events that should appear depending on the character’s level; people need time to level up, and not so that at level 1 you needed to pass a check for 10 points, I would remove the random value of the dice, people just abuse game loading to re-roll the maximum dice value. It would be worth introducing events that increased the skill level depending on the players’ choices. Now players pass characteristic checks without sufficient reward, if we passed an agility check of “9”, and upon successful completion, received strength +1, it would be more interesting. But players get very little experience, with each time my level grows more, and all I get is 5 skill points for 8 characteristics. With each time more experience is needed to gain a level, and the events continue to give very little experience. I’m starting to get stat points faster through purchases in the store. I’m saying that if sex events depend on how much you’ve leveled up the stats, maybe trying to level everything up, you’ll make a mistake, maybe events that will be in the game will require you to level up one of the stats to the maximum, for example, as in the battle with Andras. The acquisition of skills should be made easier.

 

[Duderino]

I think current skills system is kinda dull, as someone already wrote "you just lose every check until you level up enough and then you just win every check".
Now imagine what could have been instead, different builds with different playstyles, and since this is porn game - sex builds.
For example if there were "charm" and "resist" skills. Charm allows Rowan seduce characters and have sex with them, high charm - Rowan Seducer build. But if you don't invest enough points in resist, then he himself is easily seduced by chars like Jezera, which allows them to manipulate him, and we get sex scenes in sub role - Rowan Sub build. Or invest everything in resist and get moral Rowan, who doesn't have a lot of sex.
Also Alexia could have same skills. And since they are couple, maybe they could share common skill points, so player has to decide: either invest everything in Rowans charm and resist, or maybe in Alexia sex resist, or otherwise she becomes slut, that not able to refuse anyones advances - Cuck Rowan build, while Alexia's seducing skill could allow her to get some useful information for Rowan.
These skill could male/female specific - Gay Lover Rowan build.
Doesn't necessarily means there should be only sex skill, some useful non sex skills alongside could give player some skill points management decisions to make.

The skill system is just a vestigial remnant of the game's over ambition, initially the game was planned to have much meatier gameplay mechanics than what is in the game now, before the dev realized they were aiming way too high for what their skill and budget could deliver

Initially there was to be a complex character building system as well as combat system with card mechanics, even a nemesis system lmao, and the skills are remnants of that.

Most things in the game are like that, the map is the way it is because there was a more strategic nation building system planned, same for castle management, research, your army, spies, etc...

Like initially they even planned to make a sfw version because they thought the gameplay mechanics would be strong enough to serve as a regular standalone game, but if you look at years of updates it's basically become a standard porn VN

If anything I bet they wish they could further simplify and streamline the game by removing some of those systems not add more variables like you suggest but just can't justify the time it would take to rework the game from the beginning


If you want to read some of the pie in the sky ideas before reality hit of how much work and time it would take to implement those ideas you can read this thread:

You must be registered to see the links

And the OP was edited to remove a lot of the earlier promises/ideas too

 

[Richh123]

Will the MC ever evolve from a Cuck and actually get a good ending, Like a Warlord ending or something

 

[Lewdboyzzz]

Will the MC ever evolve from a Cuck and actually get a good ending, Like a Warlord ending or something

No, but you can make a game where he gets that ending.

 

[gfgdg]

The skill system is just a vestigial remnant of the game's over ambition, initially the game was planned to have much meatier gameplay mechanics than what is in the game now, before the dev realized they were aiming way too high for what their skill and budget could deliver

Initially there was to be a complex character building system as well as combat system with card mechanics, even a nemesis system lmao, and the skills are remnants of that.

Most things in the game are like that, the map is the way it is because there was a more strategic nation building system planned, same for castle management, research, your army, spies, etc...

Like initially they even planned to make a sfw version because they thought the gameplay mechanics would be strong enough to serve as a regular standalone game, but if you look at years of updates it's basically become a standard porn VN

If anything I bet they wish they could further simplify and streamline the game by removing some of those systems not add more variables like you suggest but just can't justify the time it would take to rework the game from the beginning


If you want to read some of the pie in the sky ideas before reality hit of how much work and time it would take to implement those ideas you can read this thread:

You must be registered to see the links

And the OP was edited to remove a lot of the earlier promises/ideas too

However, the question arises as to why the developers aren’t removing the stat system from the game. The Goblin and Orc update, which is a recent update, still uses the character stat system. As I said, ‘Moreover, in most cases, skill checks don’t matter.’ This stat system doesn’t unlock sex scenes. The developers are still trying to keep the stat system. I think they’re planning to move the character stats to Act 2 of the game. Therefore, I think it should at least be simplified, maybe it would be better to start over with a new stat system, or abandon character stats completely and focus on development solely through story choices.

 

[Duderino]

However, the question arises as to why the developers aren’t removing the stat system from the game. The Goblin and Orc update, which is a recent update, still uses the character stat system. As I said, ‘Moreover, in most cases, skill checks don’t matter.’ This stat system doesn’t unlock sex scenes. The developers are still trying to keep the stat system. I think they’re planning to move the character stats to Act 2 of the game. Therefore, I think it should at least be simplified, maybe it would be better to start over with a new stat system, or abandon character stats completely and focus on development solely through story choices.

In coding it takes more work to remove something and make sure that it doesn't brick something else than just leave it as is

Besides since it's there they can still use it to occasionally give the illusion of choice which helps some players feel more engaged

Like I bet if they were to remake the game with what they know now half those systems would be gone or simplified but they're already there so... the one thing they're not gonna do is add more complexity or ramifications to skills at this point

Rowan was supposed to be just one scenario of several(and have more branching narrative, stuff like dedicated slave trainer/princess trainer systems, etc...) but it's been 10 years and we're not even past act 1, I don't think there's any point in asking for more focus on gameplay systems, that ship has sailed

 

[Nym85]

However, the question arises as to why the developers aren’t removing the stat system from the game. The Goblin and Orc update, which is a recent update, still uses the character stat system. As I said, ‘Moreover, in most cases, skill checks don’t matter.’ This stat system doesn’t unlock sex scenes. The developers are still trying to keep the stat system. I think they’re planning to move the character stats to Act 2 of the game. Therefore, I think it should at least be simplified, maybe it would be better to start over with a new stat system, or abandon character stats completely and focus on development solely through story choices.

To remove the system, you have to rework every scene that calls to it. That's pointless busywork that would delay them further. They have realized what they can deliver and will focus on those aspects on Act 2. The gameplay elements in this act have been reduced enough to not be obtrusive which is fine. All else fails, just cheat.

 

[gfgdg]

To remove the system, you have to rework every scene that calls to it. That's pointless busywork that would delay them further. They have realized what they can deliver and will focus on those aspects on Act 2. The gameplay elements in this act have been reduced enough to not be obtrusive which is fine. All else fails, just cheat.

Guys, I’m talking about something a bit different. People in the discussion earlier were wondering if Act 2 will be a separate game or a continuation of this one. I might have missed a comment from the developer on this. But if it were a separate game, maybe we’d see a completely reworked system - map, stats, and new mechanics. Even if it’s not a separate game, it’ll likely still take a long time. They’ll have to live with the current system and spend many more years fixing the bugs that will arise, maybe I’m wrong.

 

[Oriandu]

The stats can't be removed because they're baked in. To remove the stats would require completely rewriting the game code and script around events, at this point it's just not feasible.

As for act two, I believe that it is intended to be a separate game and that various mechanics will be streamlined, but we haven't exactly been told much about the intentions for act two.

 

[gfgdg]

I would like them to be able to transfer the results of the players’ choices to Act 2, but create a new system, maybe then it will work.

 

[Nym85]

Guys, I’m talking about something a bit different. People in the discussion earlier were wondering if Act 2 will be a separate game or a continuation of this one. I might have missed a comment from the developer on this. But if it were a separate game, maybe we’d see a completely reworked system - map, stats, and new mechanics. Even if it’s not a separate game, it’ll likely still take a long time. They’ll have to live with the current system and spend many more years fixing the bugs that will arise, maybe I’m wrong.

It will be a separate game and all these systems will not exist because it will be more streamlined.

To be more specific

You must be registered to see the links

With that said, I would like to talk a little about plans for Act II today, but as always, keep in mind these are subject to change. Firstly, we should talk about the scope. When I started making this game I had no idea what I was doing, and as a result it ended up being far, far larger than intended. As much as I would like to continue in the same vein, as more branches continue to appear as we go forward in the story, it will soon become unmanageable. It also, as we will see later, severely limits my options while going forward because adding one new feature generates a huge amount of work.

How then, do we reduce the scope without hurting the game too much? I do have a few ideas on this front, which I'll share today, but like I said, keep in mind it is all subject to change as I said earlier. They are:

• Severely reducing the number of random events - When I started making this game, I was playing a lot of CoC and wanted to make a sandbox game. As the game developed, though, it morphed from its initial form into the narrative RPG it is today. The result is a game that requires a lot of work and is often at odds with itself. If, for example, the player wants to see a Cliohna event, it makes no sense to make them sit through 10-20 random ones until one occurs. The goal then is to move away from the random model to one that gives players more say in seeing the sorts of events they want.
• Merging NPC arcs into the main narrative - One of the things that generated a lot of work was having all the NPC events be a separate thing, often feeling disconnected from the game's main story. In Act II, we will be aiming to move a lot of NPC development into the main narrative events, reducing workload and also making them matter more.
• Simplifying the maps - Perhaps the thing I'm most dissatisfied with the game as it developed was Rosaria. I wanted the map to be this fun thing to explore with events that lead to other events, but due to the sheer amount of work required, it has never really quite worked as intended. Also due to the fact each map requires a very large pool of random events, it severely limits the amount of regions I can place in the game. To avoid that we are looking at moving away from large grid maps to something simpler that will also allow progression and some exploration without the massive amount of work required.

As you can see, we are putting a lot of thought into avoiding some of the pitfalls we fell into in making the first Act I, and reducing the scope while focusing on the things our players have told us they like about the game. I was going to talk a little about the release, but this is already a long post, so I will save it for next time. As usual, though, that release will be out on the last Sunday of next month, the 26th of January. Until then, I wish you all the best for the holidays and the new year from all of us here at Venus Noire, and as always, take care of yourselves.

 

[asgardtipar2]

can't seem to figure out what is the scene in the changelog that says andrax and alexia with tavish, can't for the life of me find the scene

 

[Rein]

can't seem to figure out what is the scene in the changelog that says andrax and alexia with tavish, can't for the life of me find the scene

It's more of a Alexia/Andras with Tarish watching. Right after Astarte

 

[Oriandu]

I would like them to be able to transfer the results of the players’ choices to Act 2, but create a new system, maybe then it will work.

It should be possible. I've seen a handful of Ren'Py games do a save carry over.

 

[Nym85]

It should be possible. I've seen a handful of Ren'Py games do a save carry over.

I am fairly certain YAGS/ZAGS did that for instance. I assume renpy picks up persistent values somehow. Multi-game persistence probably?

 

[cutefeetcunnysseur]

can you get the slutty alexia scenes without cucking?

 

[danteppr]

can you get the slutty alexia scenes without cucking?

Yes. Have Alexa reject Jezera and Andras, let X'zaratl and the succubus help spice up their relationship whenever possible, it should increase her corruption enough for her to be slutty without being unfaithful to Rowan.

 

[DaddyGrond]

I wish there will be even more scenes with Alexa becoming mindless slut that will be fcked by Andras and his friends , full demonic big titty sluty redhead with big SLUT tattoo on the ass