Sexual Game Mechanics: Why and How

[nulnil]

Formerly titled "Presentation and You! An informational guide."

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Dead Weight
Let's say you are developing a (non-novel) porn game. Somewhere in development an issue relating to the porn arises, and that is "Why must there be porn?". This might seem like a dumb question, but think about it. If a game developer just added whatever for the sake of having it, their games would be a jumbled mess. The porn in this case is dead weight and not contributing to the gameplay, and for future reference dead weight-porn (haha dmc5). When it comes to game design, it's important to make sure that everything has something to give to the gameplay, otherwise it might end up being detrimental.

However, not everyone decides to cut off this dead weight. Either they are simply inexperienced, stubborn, or simply don't care too much about the quality of their game. If a game succeeds like this, which it likely will since most people care more about fetishes than game quality, it will inevitably inspire someone else to make their own game following a similar poor formula. Then it spreads further and only gets worse from there.

So, how do we keep the porn without damaging the quality of the game?

Presenting: Sexual Game Mechanics
This is a little straightforward, but having the porn pull it's own weight (referred to as sexual game mechanics, or an SGM) is the key to this problem. A sexual game mechanic is a game mechanic that relatesor leads to sexual content, and has the sexual content contribute back to the gameplay. There are a few conditions I've found that can help guide one to making a good SGM.

The first and most important condition is the relevance of the SGMs. How much do the SGMs come up in gameplay? If it's player-activated, why should the player pursue it gameplay-wise? Your SGMs should be part of the main gameplay loop, like the fighting in a fighting game, for maximum impact. It doesn't need to be a battle-fuck game or something like that, since you might not be making a game about fighting all the time. The function of the sexual mechanics needs to make sense for the game.

The next condition is the rate of the sexual game mechanics. How often does the player encounter or use the SGMs? The rate of this should be in line with the game's general pacing. You should expect to see alot of sex often in a fast-paced game, but may need to be more patient in something turn-based. Due to this, not every genre will be ideal for porn game, like grand strategy games or games that are very slow.

Lastly, is scale. While this one is a little self-explanatory, a game needs sufficient amount of sexual content to avoid repitition. If there isn't enough content for the frequency of the mechanic, players will quickly get tired of it. Actually finding the minimum amount of sexual content for the SGM isn't easy to measure. Linear scenes aren't as interesting, but more modular sex (seen in Karryn's Prison or Degrees of Lewdity) can get away with only having a few positions, since one position can get alot more done.

Ultimately, SGMs are still game mechanics, and are to be treated as such. They need to be balanced out, polished, and fun, like any other (generally speaking). SGMs aren't always inherently good, just as some game mechanics can be bad. Alone, SGMs don't fix games, they actually need good gameplay for full impact.


Reguarding Other Sexual Content
Galleries
Now galleries aren't inherently bad, but they often encourage dead weight-porn. While the idea of letting the player revisit sexual content quickly sounds good, this is often used as a crutch to avoid making (good) SGMs. This doesn't mean you can't have anything resembling a gallery, but it's a good idea to pretend it isn't there for the sake of fap-ability during gameplay.

Game Over Sex
Again, this isn't an inherently bad thing, but it is usually misused. The obvious problem with this is that the sexual content (something the player desires) requires you to play poorly, contradicting the idea of rewarding skill. This isn't an issue if it's only a bit of the sexual content, but when it's the ONLY sexual content, it starts to be problematic.

 

[MarbleCrown]

I understand where you're coming from and agree with most of you're saying, but I think you're oversimplifying what makes porn games good. An argument can be made for gameplay being integrated into every part of the game and for certain genre's or types of games I'd agree with that. But games have evolved into a complex medium that includes problem solving and technical ability but also a narrative medium. You could mod out all of the cutscenes from The Witcher 3 and the gameplay would be functionally intact, but would it be as good as the unmodified game? I don't think so. The entirety of the subjective player experience determines the quality of a game, not the gameplay alone.

In adult games the porn can be integrated into the gameplay (some people like this, some don't), used to deliver narrative, or simply as a reward mechanism. All of these are valid ways to include porn into the game. Which one is preferred is subjective. The porn in the game only has to achieve one purpose: to bring about sexual arousal in the player. So long as this is achieved, the porn part of the game is being used properly.

The part about controlling presentation is an interesting point and again, in some cases I'd agree, but you're devaluing player agency while simultaneously arguing in favor of it. The more agency the player has, the less you (the developer) can control the presentation, but games can be designed to enhance the player experience while giving the player more agency. If porn in an adult game is a reward mechanism, then the player should have some control in enjoying that reward once earned (or choosing which rewards to pursue over others). Likewise when integrated into gameplay, the player's inputs directly influence the porn they get. This is why MOST people prefer it when games have a gallery mode or the ability to replay scenes. It gives players control over how and when they enjoy the rewards they've earned.

I don't even really like visual novels myself, but I can't deny that most of them ARE games. I would say kinetic novels aren't really games, but a Visual Novel with choices that effect the porn they get to experience, is. This is control, it is player agency.

 

[nulnil]

I understand where you're coming from and agree with most of you're saying, but I think you're oversimplifying what makes porn games good. An argument can be made for gameplay being integrated into every part of the game and for certain genre's or types of games I'd agree with that. But games have evolved into a complex medium that includes problem solving and technical ability but also a narrative medium. You could mod out all of the cutscenes from The Witcher 3 and the gameplay would be functionally intact, but would it be as good as the unmodified game? I don't think so. The entirety of the subjective player experience determines the quality of a game, not the gameplay alone.

Look, never played the witcher. But here's the thing, most people aren't going to be able write that (presumably) good.
This guide doesn't cover EVERY game, but covers a good portion of games that consider themselves games, like alien quest eve and such. The point of this post is that alot of games I see on here don't really have sexual content that is relevant to the game (like why would I want to view the sex scene?).

In adult games the porn can be integrated into the gameplay (some people like this, some don't), used to deliver narrative, or simply as a reward mechanism. All of these are valid ways to include porn into the game. Which one is preferred is subjective. The porn in the game only has to achieve one purpose: to bring about sexual arousal in the player. So long as this is achieved, the porn part of the game is being used properly.

Again, you can't really rely on the narrative here because most stories here are.. poorly written. A reward mechanism was what I was saying to avoid, since it becomes work to get the reward rather than the gameplay being a fun activity. Sure, while the ultimate goal can be achieved with all 3 methods, the gameplay is what only a game could offer. I could watch the narrative via a video, or get a 100% save file for the gallery, but playing the game is the only way to experience gameplay. This is a little more modern game design seen in games like ULTRAKILL and Doom Eternal.

The part about controlling presentation is an interesting point and again, in some cases I'd agree, but you're devaluing player agency while simultaneously arguing in favor of it. The more agency the player has, the less you (the developer) can control the presentation, but games can be designed to enhance the player experience while giving the player more agency. If porn in an adult game is a reward mechanism, then the player should have some control in enjoying that reward once earned (or choosing which rewards to pursue over others). Likewise when integrated into gameplay, the player's inputs directly influence the porn they get. This is why MOST people prefer it when games have a gallery mode or the ability to replay scenes. It gives players control over how and when they enjoy the rewards they've earned.

The control isn't about having fighting game input for doggystyle or having a massive gui for different sex positions. It could be as simple as a single sex grab attack (perhaps it does different positions on different enemies), which is a major change from none. I don't agree with "mash button to escape!!!", because that's honestly shitty game-design. The "gallery situation" arises from the game being too reliant on it's gallery to get the porn across. It creates a disconnect from the game and the gallery, and you might not be ready to enjoy it when the scene happens in the main game.

I don't even really like visual novels myself, but I can't deny that most of them ARE games. I would say kinetic novels aren't really games, but a Visual Novel with choices that effect the porn they get to experience, is. This is control, it is player agency.

VN's almost never block you off from being able to view a sex scene because you took a certain choice. On top of that, you rarely CONTROL the narrative. No matter how events in Set A go down, you'll arrive at Set B all the same. If you were talking about controling the actual sex scenes, I gotta tell you that it's really no different than turning to different pages in a book. Anyways, even if you were to block off access to one girl's scenes for access to another's, it's meaningless. I could always backup my save (or copy the file if you disable manual) and revist it later. It's like if porn sites only allowed you to view the works of one artist, but by simply opening a new tab you could bypass this.

Either way, this isn't a guide for "lower" games. Visual novels, non-innovative RPGM's, and anything uncreatively using another game's formula. The goal is to show someone what to and not do for the best possible experience for a player.

 

[nulnil]

Bump/Edit: Rewrote everything past the first paragraph.

 

[Vinnary]

This is a guide/informational post about making sexual game mechanics. This means games that don't focus on gameplay like VN's won't be using this information much.
[...]
Mistakes of Other Games
Before you get started, theres things to learn from the faults of other games. Here's a list of things you should make sure your presentation does/has:

• The porn/sex isn't only just an end result of something in gameplay.
• There is a reason to actually pursue the sexual content besides that it's sex.
• What the sexual stuff does is clear (looking at you, karryn's prison).
• Sexual content isn't used solely as a punishment or a reward.

[...]

I very much agree, this is something I often preach to my studio lads as well. I agree with most points on there in terms of good game design, but I still consider games that don't follow said guidelines to be nsfw games. They're just more sfw-narrative driven with some added sprinkles.

Coming from a game design and femdom genre standpoint myself, there's always a clear divide for me on what makes something special and what feels underwhelming. Having nsfw interwoven with the game mechanics at hand can really spice things up.

I'd like to expand on your points, that porn shouldn't just be an end result of gameplay, as well as them just being a punishment or a reward.
In said specific genre, given battle-fuck mechanics, the nsfw cg usually plays/unlocks after being defeated in battle, sadly, more often than not, immediately being followed by a game over.

This brings up the problem of the nsfw reward being given upon losing, which will hinder you to progress in the game itself. If you win, you lose out on scenes, if you lose, you lose out on progression. There are two main ways around this issue.

One being the way how, for example, Bo Wei creates his games. Being defeated doesn't result in a game over, but rather it's more of a progression approach. His games are usually designed in a way where losing results in progress. Nsfw AND usually also gameplay-wise. You will earn experience and grow from losing, while enemies will remember that you've lost to them, resulting in them switching up their tactics, a change in their nsfw scenes and an overarching progression, which I would describe as corruption. From the top of my head, other good examples for this would be Tales of Tei or Katalist.

The second, less good option, due to the nsfw just being a reward/punishment, would be alternative scenes. The first games where I have seen this in must've been the Lightning Warrior Raidy series. Defeating a boss allows for story progression with a scene of the MC dominating the enemy, while losing results in a game over with the enemy dominating the MC. While this also kind of runs into said issue, at the very least you'll get nsfw content out of a nsfw game, when playing it with the goal of beating the game in mind. Another example for that would be Desire Dungeon.

As a rule of thumb, when working on nsfw games myself, I usually ask myself the question whether or not the game would actually change, if I removed the nsfw content in its entirety. If it doesn't, it tells me that I took a wrong turn in terms of design and that I should try to link things together. Furthermore, hard game-overs are in my opinion the main source of untouched potential. (This is, however highly subjective and genre dependent)

Do note though that this is just a guideline I've set up for myself. There are plenty of good games which have hard game-overs, which don't rely on such a progression system and which still work well. Still, I do think that this is one of the main problems, that stops some nsfw games from reaching their fullest potential, for me personally.

 

[anne O'nymous]

This is a guide/informational post about making sexual game mechanics.

And it is on the General Discussion part of the forum because ?

I always thought, and still continue to think, that what make someone great at something is the attention to details.

A good writer will ensure that the kitchen table haven't changed shape between the first chapter and the current one.
A good artist will ensure that the girl haven't changed her panties three time in one hour.
A good programmer will ensure that his code works at least under most context.
A good game designer will ensure that everything is balanced for the whole level range targeted at this moment.
And a good help/how-to writer will ensure that there isn't a so way more dedicated place where what he's ready to write will have more chance to be seen by the people who need to see it.

What is the difference between a nudity mod for a AAA game and Rignetta's Adventure?

It's easy, the first one address the visual aspect of the game, while the second is all about the game mechanism.
But this also mean that opposing them make as much sense as opposing the photo of a car to a car's gearshift. It's obvious that their difference come from their purpose and nothing else.

Essentially, Presentation is the how the game integrates the adult content into the gameplay. Without it, the adult content barely matters.

And without the nude mod, there's no adult content. What mean that even this purely aesthetic change integrates adult content into the gameplay.
What you meant is, I guess, that the difference is that in Rignetta's Adventure the adult content is, like I said above, parts of the game mechanism. And, therefore, that a nude mod do not add a game mechanism.

But I still don't see what you call "presentation". Is it how the adult content is presented to the player, either as aesthetic content, or a game mechanism ? But then was, starting by an introduction that was already summarized by the first line, really necessary ?

The whole idea of presentation revolves around gameplay, so this wouldn't work with VN's.

This wouldn't works with Kinetic Novels, but can perfectly works with Visual Novels. They aren't necessarily deprived of game mechanisms, and therefore of gameplay ; one that don't necessarily fit to everyone, but still a gameplay.

One-off sex scenes typically don't have any effect on the gameplay, and never in a way that the other skill-based mechanics would.

To only take one example, that also demonstrate that Visual Novels and game mechanisms aren't two opposed concepts, Pact with a witch players will disagree with you. Obviously I choose it because it's actually the most advanced for a Ren'Py VN.
The whole "do whatever you want" sex scene with Didac is not only a strong and fully interactive game mechanism, where your partner reaction will depend of everything you did before, but it also have a deep impact on the rest of the story. The way Didac will approach sex, how craving for anal will he be after this, totally depend of what happened during this part.
On a lower level, what you'll do, and in what order you'll do it, when you apply sunscreen on Didac at the beach will decide if he rape you on the same beach, or bitch about you once back to your flat.
And of course there's the whole dungeon part. Having not played some of the last updates, I don't know how it will turn, but what was presented, coupled to the "do whatever you want" scene I talked about above, let me guess that it will be near to the classical flash BDSM games. You'll choose what tool you'll use, where and how you'll use it, and the "girl state" will totally depend of everything you did so far.

Things that create a disconnect between the gameplay and porn, like galleries, will harm the presentation.

And I'm lost again, what "presentation" mean ?

It's a good idea to pretend there is no gallery, or just even not have one. But if you must, make it still have some kind of gameplay to it, like a test area where you can spawn enemies.

Dear diary, today I learned that Asian adult games creators are doing it wrongly since so many decades.

Now, onto actually implementing it. It depends on the game, but it should be a mechanic that makes sense for the type of game.

So far, I find that you should have started your post by "I'll state all the most obvious obviousness that cross my mind".
Of course, there's games that don't follow this obvious rule, but they are an exception and there's always exceptions whatever the subject.

Most of the time here, you'll see 'battle-fuck' games, which get the idea of presentation across fairly well.

You haven't played much RPG Maker Asian games, right ? And what about trainers, real time 3D games like Abandoned: A tale of forgotten lives, and others ?
There's still a battle-fuck game made time to time, but we aren't in the late 00's - early 10's anymore.

One of the most important things to remember about presentation is that it should have an effect on the game.

Oh, so a nude mod that would act like the stripping run in the Saints Row series would be good then.
For those who don't know Saints Row (you heretics !) you can walk naked on the streets, and the NPC will react to your nudity. It's not a "I'll rape you" reaction, more stares, whistling and comments, but it have an effect on the game.
And I'm now even more confused, what "presentation" mean ? Isn't there a word for it in the game designers slang or, if it's already the word, a page where it's explained ?

I know I'm repeating what I've said, but some games simply don't get this. Simply having sexy stuff happen because of the gameplay (i.e. after you beat a boss, not during it) means that the sexy stuff matters no more than a visual effect.

[the other half of the scene]: But, how do I fight since I'm busy fapping ?

The reason why, with battle-fuck, during the combat the lewd content is limited to some stripping, and the main course starts after the combat, is precisely because of this other half of the scene. They want to be able to fap on the sexual content, and it's not possible to fight and fap simultaneously.

Dear diary, today I learned that Asian adult games creators are doing it wrongly since so many decades.
Wait, haven't I already wrote this ?

• There is a reason to actually pursue the sexual content besides that it's sex.

I'll not starts a point by point demonstration, but this contradict most of what you previously said.
Since you focus on the game mechanisms and, for battle-fuck, say that the sex should be an effective part of the battle, so far you described the sex as being present for the sole purpose to be present.

• What the sexual stuff does is clear (looking at you, karryn's prison).

Well, I was wrong, you played some RPG Maker games.

And I'm once again even more confused regarding what you mean by "presentation". Because your example is the perfect demonstration that the game mechanism define everything, and a good game in regard of this.
Basically speaking, it's the kind of game where the two half of the scene reunite. Effectively enjoyable and entertaining, players decision can matters, and it's also purely fapable.

TLDR; Presentation is integrating sexual content into gameplay. Sexual content should contribute to the gameplay, not just be an effect of gameplay.

And I still have absolutely no clue what "presentation" is...

 

[Ophanim]

The confusing thing about this was that I thought for a second, based on the thread title, you were trying to educate f95zone on gender performativity and the way people 'present' as a given gender, because people tie themselves in knots over understanding the difference between futa vs trans vs crossdressing on here. Because presentation is already a term that has a lot of different meanings lol

You make some interesting points. I would say your argument about galleries feels valid to me, in that I sort of understand what you're trying to convey between the lines, but isn't explained very well? Honestly, I understand the desire to coin a piece of jargon. Scientists do it all the time. But I really don't think you've done a good job of defining your terms before making your case, and it makes what you are arguing for less clear than it needs to be.

It feels like you're making an argument from the perspective that when a sex game isn't about sex in some way, it is a case of

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for you as a player. As in, the sexless gameplay does not match the sexual narrative, or in your terms, it is badly integrated and has 'bad presentation'. This would make 'presentation' roughly synonymous with ludonarrative consistency, if I understand correctly, and you're arguing that this kind of consistency is a good thing in porn. Which is a fair argument to apply to the design of porn games, I think?

 

[nulnil]

The confusing thing about this was that I thought for a second, based on the thread title, you were trying to educate f95zone on gender performativity and the way people 'present' as a given gender, because people tie themselves in knots over understanding the difference between futa vs trans vs crossdressing on here. Because presentation is already a term that has a lot of different meanings lol

You make some interesting points. I would say your argument about galleries feels valid to me, in that I sort of understand what you're trying to convey between the lines, but isn't explained very well? Honestly, I understand the desire to coin a piece of jargon. Scientists do it all the time. But I really don't think you've done a good job of defining your terms before making your case, and it makes what you are arguing for less clear than it needs to be.

It feels like you're making an argument from the perspective that when a sex game isn't about sex in some way, it is a case of

You must be registered to see the links

for you as a player. As in, the sexless gameplay does not match the sexual narrative, or in your terms, it is badly integrated and has 'bad presentation'. This would make 'presentation' roughly synonymous with ludonarrative consistency, if I understand correctly, and you're arguing that this kind of consistency is a good thing in porn. Which is a fair argument to apply to the design of porn games, I think?

Sorry if it's not that coherent, it's a pretty hard topic to explain since there aren't alot of great terms I can use for this.

 

[nulnil]

And it is on the General Discussion part of the forum because ?

Don't know where else to put this.

It's easy, the first one address the visual aspect of the game, while the second is all about the game mechanism.
But this also mean that opposing them make as much sense as opposing the photo of a car to a car's gearshift. It's obvious that their difference come from their purpose and nothing else.

Unfortunately alot of games just have adult content without any real impact on the game, which means it's similar to that nudity mod. It's a waste of what you're able to do with the adult content.

But I still don't see what you call "presentation". Is it how the adult content is presented to the player, either as aesthetic content, or a game mechanism ? But then was, starting by an introduction that was already summarized by the first line, really necessary ?

Presentation is how the game presents the adult content, preferably in the gameplay since it's a game. I get it's a little confusing, since there's no well-agreed words to define this.

This wouldn't works with Kinetic Novels, but can perfectly works with Visual Novels. They aren't necessarily deprived of game mechanisms, and therefore of gameplay ; one that don't necessarily fit to everyone, but still a gameplay.

The issue with visual novels is that the presentation is limited by the gameplay, since it's supposed to be integrated into it already. That means if you have a bunch of random minigames and QTE's, the presentation can only be so good.

To only take one example, that also demonstrate that Visual Novels and game mechanisms aren't two opposed concepts, Pact with a witch players will disagree with you. Obviously I choose..

With the way you've described this, it sounds less like gameplay and more like an interactive sex scene that has a later impact on the story. It does not sound like something that's skill-based, since there's not much to improve at it.

Dear diary, today I learned that Asian adult games creators are doing it wrongly since so many decades.

Again, I am not talking about visual novels. Games and strictly those with a focus on gameplay.

You haven't played much RPG Maker Asian games, right ? And what about trainers, real time 3D games like Abandoned: A tale of forgotten lives, and others ?
There's still a battle-fuck game made time to time, but we aren't in the late 00's - early 10's anymore.

No, I haven't played alot of visual novels. And neither games where there isn't any skill-based mechanics that go beyond QTE's.

Oh, so a nude mod that would act like the stripping run in the Saints Row series would be good then.
For those who don't know Saints Row (you heretics !) you can walk naked on the streets, and the NPC will react to your nudity. It's not a "I'll rape you" reaction, more stares, whistling and comments, but it have an effect on the game.
And I'm now even more confused, what "presentation" mean ? Isn't there a word for it in the game designers slang or, if it's already the word, a page where it's explained ?

The difference here is that saints row is (probably) not a porn game. This is about games that are supposed to be pornographic.

[the other half of the scene]: But, how do I fight since I'm busy fapping ?

The reason why, with battle-fuck, during the combat the lewd content is limited to some stripping, and the main course starts after the combat, is precisely because of this other half of the scene. They want to be able to fap on the sexual content, and it's not possible to fight and fap simultaneously.

You'd have to design around that. I never said you can't have sexual content outside of gameplay, I just said to have most of it happen during gameplay.

I'll not starts a point by point demonstration, but this contradict most of what you previously said.
Since you focus on the game mechanisms and, for battle-fuck, say that the sex should be an effective part of the battle, so far you described the sex as being present for the sole purpose to be present.

If I understand what you're saying, you say that the sexual mechanics don't inherently need to be sexual since they would still be the same otherwise. However, many porn games with actual gameplay simply show you the sex scene after that gameplay. It is like if you won a game of chess and your computer opened a browser to rule34.xxx

Well, I was wrong, you played some RPG Maker games.

And I'm once again even more confused regarding what you mean by "presentation". Because your example is the perfect demonstration that the game mechanism define everything, and a good game in regard of this.
Basically speaking, it's the kind of game where the two half of the scene reunite. Effectively enjoyable and entertaining, players decision can matters, and it's also purely fapable.

Well who doesn't want to make a good game? Don't tell me you like shovelware.

Again, this guide doesn't apply to anything where the gameplay is merely a side objective, like any given visual/kinetic/paper novel.

 

[Ophanim]

Sorry if it's not that coherent, it's a pretty hard topic to explain since there aren't alot of great terms I can use for this.

That's why I was trying to provide you with some terms to use to look for more info, bc big game designers have been talking about this for a while now, you silly

There's a bunch of videos on youtube about the topic of ludonarrative dissonance in game design, which is very much your wheelhouse with this post. What you gotta do is find a way to convey that in the context of porn games, right?

 

[anne O'nymous]

Don't know where else to put this.

Ah, if at least this forum had a section dedication to programming, development and art... And, while we are at it, it would be good if it had a sub section dedicated to guides.

Unfortunately alot of games just have adult content without any real impact on the game, which means it's similar to that nudity mod. It's a waste of what you're able to do with the adult content.

A waste, really ?
What if what the players (as a globalitty, therefore there's obviously exception like you) want is in fact nothing more than a nude mod ? It doesn't mean that they wouldn't appreciate another approach, but it would be for a change, not as an habit.

The 90's were wild, every porn studio (at least in Europe) were releasing a new game every week or so. Of course, most of them where as cheap as their movies. But like for the movies, time to time they were investing more, trying to innovate.
But here is the thing, when a game was following your guideline, the sells were far to reach any expectation. Of course, it was 20+ years ago, and the public changed since. But near to no one really cared to try this again, at least for a real adult game. And those who tried being relatively as unsuccessful than in the past, it wasn't really engaging.

There's this thing, that is particular to pornography, it's two opposite joined together. Enjoyable and entertaining when you are in the mood, boring and possibly disturbing when you aren't. And this become a problem when you have to turn this into a game, because it need to be enjoyable and entertaining, and must avoid at all cost to be boring, and even more disturbing.
If there's so few lewd in regular games, it's not just a question of morality. Of course, for titles like the Mass Effect series, it's the reason. But for titles more liberals, it's mostly because it need to not turn into boredom.

Have you ever played a Fallout or Elder Scrolls game with some of the

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mods ? For New Vegas, by example, you have some that involve the NPC or the companions. Your girl character walk peacefully on the strip, and you boom a wild rapist appear and rape her. Or you walk on the strip, and two NPC starts to have sex. Or you are in the middle of the desert, and your companion stop you, because you're his toilets, or want to have sex, now. And so many things like this. It's fun for a time, then starts to be annoying and you disable this functionality for some times.
The same would apply for an adult game that would go too far in the sex integration. It would be fun for a time, then starts to be invading, before it turns boring. It's the reason why the lewd parts feel as put aside. It's a part of the game, and the reason why we play this game, but it need to stay avoidable when you want to avoid it and just play.
It's what the Asian scene tend to do. Either with a small repeatable games, that you play until the pleasure starts to fade, then restarts later, or with games more ambitious, where you've a game line and a lewd line, that cross, but aren't purely united. To take an example, in a RPG Maker game, you'll have the warrior line when you are on the wild, and the slut line, where you are in town. And you'll alternate between one or the other, accordingly to your desire at this moment.

Presentation is how the game presents the adult content, preferably in the gameplay since it's a game. I get it's a little confusing, since there's no well-agreed words to define this.

As said by Ophanim, the words exist since a very long time. And you would benefit in searching them and, then, using them.

With the way you've described this, it sounds less like gameplay and more like an interactive sex scene that has a later impact on the story. It does not sound like something that's skill-based, since there's not much to improve at it.

It's effectively an interactive sex scene. But, as I said above, it's what match adult games ; something punctual that isn't so invading that it end being annoying. While in the same time matching the game flow of a VN.

But I disagree with it not being skill-based. It's not in this game, but it doesn't mean that it can't be, and this for both side. You can perfectly improve your caresses, the way you use your tong, fingers and dick. You can improve this globally, and for this partner. The way she like to be fingered isn't necessarily the way another one will like it. This is a skill-based progression, and it can perfectly have an impact in the game outside of the pure sex scenes. The better you'll be, the more relaxed and ready to agree she'll be. And at the opposite, if you are incompetent, be ready to see her burst in frustration if something displease her.
And, as I said, it works both side. While you can improve your ability to please a given partner, this partner can "improve her liking" for a particular practice. While it's not purely a question of skills, it's still a factor of improvement and evolution ; it's how most of the Asian "repeatable games" I talked above works. It will have less impact outside of the sex scenes themselves, but you can starts with a vanilla innocent virgin, and turn her either into a first class domina, or the perfect pet, depending of what you prefer. And obviously, in include everything in between. By focusing on this, or that, you shape her to be the sexual partner you want her to be.

Again, I am not talking about visual novels. Games and strictly those with a focus on gameplay.

And again you are confusing Kinetic Novels and Visual Novels.
Code Of Duty games are interactive visual novels. They are telling you a story, and at no time you have the control over this story, you can only decide how your character will evolve inside each chapters.
It's not because Visual Novels on the scene tend to be less interactive that this, than Visual Novel don't have gameplay and/or don't focus on it.

The difference here is that saints row is (probably) not a porn game. This is about games that are supposed to be pornographic.

*sigh*
It was explicitly an illustration. And this illustration was explicitly here in an attempt to understand what you mean by "presentation". I expected many kind of answer, including an "I don't know", but clearly not your "this is totally irrelevant".

I never said you can't have sexual content outside of gameplay, I just said to have most of it happen during gameplay.

This while clearly using "gameplay" in place of "game mechanism", and I'm not convinced that you are using the latter correctly.

If I understand what you're saying, you say that the sexual mechanics don't inherently need to be sexual since they would still be the same otherwise.

How can you reach this conclusion, that is so totally unrelated with what I said ?

However, many porn games with actual gameplay simply show you the sex scene after that gameplay. It is like if you won a game of chess and your computer opened a browser to rule34.xxx

While, since it don't change the outcome of the combat, a victory being a victory whatever how you reached it, your approach is like having sex, but no orgasm.
You'll not win faster because you put your dick in her mouth during this turn, instead of putting your fist in her face. It will not be a better victory because she decided to let you fuck her, instead of being knocked out. And the outcome of the combat will be the same ; whatever if you attacked or fucked, you won, what will unlock the rest of the game.

This being opposed to sex that happen outside of the combat, and that can perfectly come with a reward.
If you suck the clerk, you'll have a lower price on this item you need, what will let you with enough money for your crazy nights in the club. Instead of training your stealth skills, you can bribe the guard with your ass, what will let you with more opportunities to raise other skills. Instead of working hard and doing extra hours at work, you can reach your way to the top by fucking your boss, what will let you with more time to do other things, like also fucking her daughter by example.
The sex become a part of the gameplay, one of the game mechanisms on which you can rely for your progression, in place of the to the more classical game mechanisms that have also been implemented in parallel to it. And, unlike sex during the combat that, because it don't change the outcome, is here purely to put more sex into the game, here it add something to the gameplay. You now have an alternate way to progress, if you want it.

Again, this guide doesn't apply to anything where the gameplay is merely a side objective, like any given visual/kinetic/paper novel.

And, once again, it's not just in game design that you lack of knowledge. There's absolutely nothing that prevent you to put the example I used above as main game mechanism into a Visual Novel.
And, by the way, "gameplay" is once again misused here.

 

[nulnil]

There's this thing, that is particular to pornography, it's two opposite joined together. Enjoyable and entertaining when you are in the mood, boring and possibly disturbing when you aren't. And this become a problem when you have to turn this into a game, because it need to be enjoyable and entertaining, and must avoid at all cost to be boring, and even more disturbing.
If there's so few lewd in regular games, it's not just a question of morality. Of course, for titles like the Mass Effect series, it's the reason. But for titles more liberals, it's mostly because it need to not turn into boredom.

Have you ever played a Fallout or Elder Scrolls game with some of the

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mods ? For New Vegas...

Not everyone will always be in the mood to jack off to porn. This is resolved by simply not viewing the porn.

As said by Ophanim, the words exist since a very long time. And you would benefit in searching them and, then, using them.

So, what exactly do I search then? What I've tried hasn't brought up anything relevant.

It's effectively an interactive sex scene. But, as I said above, it's what match adult games ; something punctual that isn't so invading that it end being annoying. While in the same time matching the game flow of a VN...

This now sounds alot like a dating simulator. Key word here, simulator. Yes maybe it does have gameplay, if you consider Choose-Your-Own-Adventure books games.

And again you are confusing Kinetic Novels and Visual Novels.
Code Of Duty games are interactive visual novels. They are telling you a story, and at no time you have the control over this story, you can only decide how your character will evolve inside each chapters.

I personally have not played Call Of Duty, but I have a feeling that most people who bought it wanted to play it because it was a game, not for the story.

*sigh*
It was explicitly an illustration. And this illustration was explicitly here in an attempt to understand what you mean by "presentation". I expected many kind of answer, including an "I don't know", but clearly not your "this is totally irrelevant".

Yes, in a way it is presentation, but that game is focused on shooting people (haven't played the game but wikipedia says that). I don't think the devs were really thinking too much about that and just wanted something funny to add to the game.

While, since it don't change the outcome of the combat, a victory being a victory whatever how you reached it, your approach is like having sex, but no orgasm.
You'll not win faster because you put your dick in her mouth during this turn, instead of putting your fist in her face. It will not be a better victory because she decided to let you fuck her, instead of being knocked out. And the outcome of the combat will be the same ; whatever if you attacked or fucked, you won, what will unlock the rest of the game.

This is also an issue seen in games like karryn's prison (again), where the sex is just another type of fighting. Of course, this is pretty much a strawman argument. In Degrees of Lewdity, being submissive is generally easier opposed to fighting, but it comes at the cost of mental health. Not all games need to have battle-sex either, as I've said earlier (but they probably should if they are about fighting). For games about fighting, there can be sexual attacks as a tool in a player's arsenal, instead of it being a reskinned basic attack.

This being opposed to sex that happen outside of the combat, and that can perfectly come with a reward.
If you suck the clerk, you'll have a lower price on this item you need, what will let you with enough money for your crazy nights in the club. Instead of training your stealth skills, you can bribe the guard with your ass, what will let you with more opportunities to raise other skills. Instead of working hard and doing extra hours at work, you can reach your way to the top by fucking your boss, what will let you with more time to do other things, like also fucking her daughter by example.
The sex become a part of the gameplay, one of the game mechanisms on which you can rely for your progression, in place of the to the more classical game mechanisms that have also been implemented in parallel to it. And, unlike sex during the combat that, because it don't change the outcome, is here purely to put more sex into the game, here it add something to the gameplay. You now have an alternate way to progress, if you want it.

Maybe this applies to open-world games. Or those grindy-as-hell VN's/RPGM games. The point of actually having the sex in combat/gameplay is to make sure it's not disjointed.

I once saw this game where the parts where you played the game (that better than gameplay?) was pretty much a tower defense. The only sex in the game was after you fought off all the enemies in some hut. Basically, the gameplay was only there to add hours to the game instead of being the main attraction.

And, once again, it's not just in game design that you lack of knowledge. There's absolutely nothing that prevent you to put the example I used above as main game mechanism into a Visual Novel.

Again, these are closer to a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book than something resembling 98% of games in the average steam libary.

It's not because Visual Novels on the scene tend to be less interactive that this, than Visual Novel don't have gameplay and/or don't focus on it.

Look, if a developer wanted to make a game focused on game mechanics, they'd be better off not making a visual novel. Authors should focus on writing a story, not finding some way to introduce game mechanics when not necessary. We don't need random QTE's or minigames to unlock renders.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Not everyone will always be in the mood to jack off to porn. This is resolved by simply not viewing the porn.

This is exactly what I said. And since, accordingly to your "presentation" (whatever it can mean), it's not possible to play without viewing the porn, people will not play... what isn't the goal one seek when he start making a game.
Reason why, as I said, and tried to explain with this example that, once again, you seem to have took literally, lewd is generally light in regular games, and not constantly present in adult games.

So, what exactly do I search then? What I've tried hasn't brought up anything relevant.

You can starts by following the link he provided, it's an entry point that worth another. Or you can ask your favorite search engine about "game design slang".

This now sounds alot like a dating simulator.

Absolutely not. In a dating simulator, sex is your goal and reward, while here it's part of your journey.
If you want to tag it, it's corruption that would fit the most but, neither the corrupter, nor the corrupting factor, are the MC.

Yes maybe it does have gameplay, if you consider Choose-Your-Own-Adventure books games.

You know, it starts to be annoying. How many time have I told you that you misuse "gameplay", and you still haven't cared to simply look at the definition of the word. All games have a gameplay, even Kinetic Novels have one. It's "game mechanism" that they potentially lack of ; and this also, I said it more than once.

Don't engage in a technical discussion, and even less write a "guide", if you aren't ready to at least learn the definition of the words you need to use.

I personally have not played Call Of Duty, but I have a feeling that most people who bought it wanted to play it because it was a game, not for the story.

And so ?
What is your point exactly ? That something become a VN only if you buy it for the story ? That the level of interaction and game mechanisms always take precedence over the story ?
Anyway, you aren't exactly right. Many among those who bought the first games did it for the story ; because they wanted to take parts to some of the memorable battles of the WWII. This obviously ended when the series stopped to be historically accurate.

Yes, in a way it is presentation, but that game is focused on shooting people (haven't played the game but wikipedia says that). I don't think the devs were really thinking too much about that and just wanted something funny to add to the game.

*Sigh* Context matters...
You answer to something I said about Saints Row... So I doubt that Wikipedia said that it focus on shooting people. And since the series is a parody of GTA series, they really don't needed to add something funny in the game. Everything is WTF enough like that.

This is also an issue seen in games like karryn's prison (again), where the sex is just another type of fighting. Of course, this is pretty much a strawman argument.

Hmm... I'm almost sure that "strawman argument" don't mean what you think it mean. But I can be wrong, and you can perfectly have just admitted that your thread is nothing more than an elaborated troll.

As for Karryn's prison, what to say except that, in a way, sex is a fight whatever the context. And this apply even more once you turn it into a computer simulation. The player will always feel as an opponent of the girl/boy and, even if it's supposed to depict a purely consensual intercourse, he'll always feel like he have to fight her/his desire to not have an orgasm.
You've to find what give her/him the most pleasure, like you've to find the weak points during a fight. You've to find what combination of stimulation lead her/him over the top, like you've to find what combo deal the most damage in a fight. Potentially you've to lower her/his resistance to a given practice, like you've to lower a shield during a fight. And you've to raise the pleasure bar, like you've to lower the health bar in a fight.
Starting the moment you decide that the sex in your game will be interactive, you are designing a combat mechanism.

Not all games need to have battle-sex either, as I've said earlier (but they probably should if they are about fighting).

No, what I said is that not all games have to be battle-sex ; therefore that it don't need to be the sole content, while the game can perfectly not resolve mostly around it.
But it don't change much since, yes, not all games need to have interactive sex. It can perfectly be totally scripted, or the interactivity can be limited to the choice of the next position and when to cum.

For games about fighting, there can be sexual attacks as a tool in a player's arsenal, instead of it being a reskinned basic attack.

What, as I said and explained, mean that the sex would exist for the sole purpose to exist. And this still defeat whatever you put behind your "presentation".
The sole exception is if the combat is supposed to be a rape. It's the only case where having sexual attacks effectively matters.

The point of actually having the sex in combat/gameplay is to make sure it's not disjointed.

What send back to the start of this post and your own, "not everyone will always be in the mood to jack off to porn. This is resolved by simply not viewing the porn". And, like I answered to it, no one want to make a game for it to not be played.

I once saw this game where the parts where you played the game (that better than gameplay?) was pretty much a tower defense. The only sex in the game was after you fought off all the enemies in some hut. Basically, the gameplay was only there to add hours to the game instead of being the main attraction.

That was better than "gameplay". Too bad that you ruined it by misusing the word right after...

This said, you are looking at the issue backward, and totally inverting the thinking process that lead to this design. The genre (tower defense) haven't been chosen to add hours to an adult game. It's the sex that have been chosen to add a motivation/interest to a tower defense game.
One don't choose to play this game to be aroused by the lewd content, and even less to fap. He choose to play this game because he want to play a tower defense game, and this one come with an arousing bonus.

If you think that way, then it's not too surprising that you are deceived by most games available here. Simply because you expect them to be something that they never intended to be, pure pornography.
There's games that focus on the fappability, but even in the constantly growing state of the actual scene, they are a small minority. The others are designed either to provide entertainment, or to tell a story, and like for your tower defense example, the lewd content is nothing more than the cherry on the cake.

Look, if a developer wanted to make a game focused on game mechanics, they'd be better off not making a visual novel.

Since "pick the choice you want, it will change the story" is a game mechanism, I suppose that you meant "a game with a high level of interactivity".

Authors should focus on writing a story, not finding some way to introduce game mechanics when not necessary. We don't need random QTE's or minigames to unlock renders.

Well, at least a point on which you are right.

 

[Ophanim]

nulnil
I mean, I'm not a fan of visual novels as a medium either, to be honest, so I understand your frustration with them on an emotional level even if I don't agree with you entirely on the whole topic of presentation.

Regarding VNs, most of the time they might as well just be a kinetic novel, and I get horribly bored playing those because I feel like the end result is often just a badly written book with some pretty pictures. So as an avid reader, I kind of understand coming to porn games for their porn gameplay, because I definitely would be over on ArchiveOfOurOwn or Wattpad rn reading fanfiction if I wanted a smutty novel. And I'd be playing non-porn games if I wanted to play a fun game, because porn games are usually kind of terrible at the 'game' bit too, even when the porn is an afterthought.

So I kind of understand feeling like VNs need to be this sprawling, gargantuan thing with a hundred intertwined routes and endings, because for me that's what's needed to compete with the endless supply of free and often quite good fanfiction writing. Y'know, because my time here is finite and there is waaay too much content to not get picky.

I do think you're being a little unfair to gamebooks though. A lot of those actually had forms of RNG and were pretty much simple, self-contained, singleplayer tabletop RPGs.

 

[nulnil]

This is exactly what I said. And since, accordingly to your "presentation" (whatever it can mean), it's not possible to play without viewing the porn, people will not play... what isn't the goal one seek when he start making a game.
Reason why, as I said, and tried to explain with this example that, once again, you seem to have took literally, lewd is generally light in regular games, and not constantly present in adult games.

I never said it was constantly present, just alot more present. I am also talking about porn games, not games where porn is there to bump up age ratings.

You know, it starts to be annoying. How many time have I told you that you misuse "gameplay", and you still haven't cared to simply look at the definition of the word. All games have a gameplay, even Kinetic Novels have one. It's "game mechanism" that they potentially lack of ; and this also, I said it more than once.

Don't engage in a technical discussion, and even less write a "guide", if you aren't ready to at least learn the definition of the words you need to use.

If you looked closely, you could see I said "if you consider Choose-Your-Own-Adventure books games". And technically, even kinetic novels have page-turning as a game mechanic. However, these "games" aren't really designed with challenge in mind, which means the gameplay is alot like reading abook.

And so ?
What is your point exactly ? That something become a VN only if you buy it for the story ? That the level of interaction and game mechanisms always take precedence over the story ?
Anyway, you aren't exactly right. Many among those who bought the first games did it for the story ; because they wanted to take parts to some of the memorable battles of the WWII. This obviously ended when the series stopped to be historically accurate.

Again, if you were paying attention I responded with, I was essentially saying that Call Of Duty is at it's core, a game (not as in a visual novel, like a game where you don't solely read text).

Hmm... I'm almost sure that "strawman argument" don't mean what you think it mean. But I can be wrong, and you can perfectly have just admitted that your thread is nothing more than an elaborated troll.

Please read the first two sentences of

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.

As for Karryn's prison, what to say except that, in a way, sex is a fight whatever the context. And this apply even more once you turn it into a computer simulation. The player will always feel as an opponent of the girl/boy and, even if it's supposed to depict a purely consensual intercourse, he'll always feel like he have to fight her/his desire to not have an orgasm.
You've to find what give her/him the most pleasure, like you've to find the weak points during a fight. You've to find what combination of stimulation lead her/him over the top, like you've to find what combo deal the most damage in a fight. Potentially you've to lower her/his resistance to a given practice, like you've to lower a shield during a fight. And you've to raise the pleasure bar, like you've to lower the health bar in a fight.
Starting the moment you decide that the sex in your game will be interactive, you are designing a combat mechanism.

Games about fighting will have mechanics about fighting. Shocking! Also, breeding games (or well, the only one I bothered playing) don't feature alot of combat. And yet, the sex is part of the gameplay.

No, what I said is that not all games have to be battle-sex ; therefore that it don't need to be the sole content, while the game can perfectly not resolve mostly around it.
But it don't change much since, yes, not all games need to have interactive sex. It can perfectly be totally scripted, or the interactivity can be limited to the choice of the next position and when to cum.

The problem is when the sex is ONLY in scripted scenes. If that happens, either the gameplay or sex becomes a novelty, which ultimately beats the point of making a porn game in the first place.

What, as I said and explained, mean that the sex would exist for the sole purpose to exist. And this still defeat whatever you put behind your "presentation".
The sole exception is if the combat is supposed to be a rape. It's the only case where having sexual attacks effectively matters.

Most games that include killing don't have consensual killing, because nobody wants to die. There are still games however, that don't involve killing.

What send back to the start of this post and your own, "not everyone will always be in the mood to jack off to porn. This is resolved by simply not viewing the porn". And, like I answered to it, no one want to make a game for it to not be played.

Alright, so you're telling me that you play the same game ALL day? You never switch to another game?

This said, you are looking at the issue backward, and totally inverting the thinking process that lead to this design. The genre (tower defense) haven't been chosen to add hours to an adult game. It's the sex that have been chosen to add a motivation/interest to a tower defense game.
One don't choose to play this game to be aroused by the lewd content, and even less to fap. He choose to play this game because he want to play a tower defense game, and this one come with an arousing bonus.

It wasn't even a good tower defense, it was just a bad game with porn inserted in an attempt to make it more interesting. The porn in question, also sucked.

If you think that way, then it's not too surprising that you are deceived by most games available here. Simply because you expect them to be something that they never intended to be, pure pornography.
There's games that focus on the fappability, but even in the constantly growing state of the actual scene, they are a small minority. The others are designed either to provide entertainment, or to tell a story, and like for your tower defense example, the lewd content is nothing more than the cherry on the cake.

First, I could go to any porn site if I wanted pure pornography. Second, this is closer to putting drugs in burnt food.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Games about fighting will have mechanics about fighting. Shocking!

Except that you say yourself that they aren't games about fighting, and the mechanisms are not about fighting. What matters isn't just the design, but the destination.
Industry sized electrical generator are nothing more than motors. Yet it don't make them a car.

The problem is when the sex is ONLY in scripted scenes. If that happens, either the gameplay or sex becomes a novelty, which ultimately beats the point of making a porn game in the first place.

No, the problem is in "porn game" that, as I said, are a small minority, and accordingly to the example you take, are not the ones you are playing.

Alright, so you're telling me that you play the same game ALL day?

There's absolutely nothing in what I said that can lead to this conclusion.
Except is you are an incel virgin who need to fap at least once a day, people aren't always in the mood for that. They'll play one day, for few time, then not want to play for the following days, because it's not what they want now.
And once again, no one want to design a game that would be so often discarded in profit of other ones. What don't mean that they expect their game to be played every single day, all day long. There's a whole world in between.


But well, I'm not really surprised.

 

[nulnil]

There's absolutely nothing in what I said that can lead to this conclusion.
Except is you are an incel virgin who need to fap at least once a day, people aren't always in the mood for that. They'll play one day, for few time, then not want to play for the following days, because it's not what they want now.
And once again, no one want to design a game that would be so often discarded in profit of other ones. What don't mean that they expect their game to be played every single day, all day long. There's a whole world in between.
But well, I'm not really surprised.

You kept saying that a game can't have sexual game mechanics because it would detract anyone from playing the game when they are not horny. Just to clarify, I am not talking about games like mass-effect and cyberpunk where there is sex, but they are not porn games. I am talking about games that are designed to "get you off". That means that the purpose of someone playing said game is to jack off.

This is a how a (good) porn game operates:

1. Player opens the porn game to jack off.
2. Player plays the porn game.
3. Player finishes jacking off.
4. Player closes the porn game.

Why anyone would want to play a porn game when they aren't horny is beyond me (unless it's for the novelty of playing bad VN's).

Now then, apparently what you're saying is that, somehow, sexual game mechanics make a game have less playtime. Which doesn't make much sense at all, since you would have a higher quality product that is harder to compete with. If anything, the players only play once per day which means more total days playing the game.

 

[Telemachos]

I think the OP is confusing porn and lewd games.

If I want to see a porn movie, I'm rarely interested by boring bad acting dialogues (that mostly died when porn switched to the tube format).

If I want to play a game, I want the game part, that implies some entertainement, mechanics, exploration or competitivity. And nope, as a player I don't need to be horny to play eyuu senki world conquest, or the last sovreign, or harem collector.

If you remove the non lewd gaming part you'll end with a boring porn animation with choices about how to fuck and where to cum (there were tons of them on any porngame sites when flash was a thing) as sole gameplay.

A game is defined but it's gameplay and belongs to a certain gendre. It may be an RPG, a VN, an RTS, but there is no such thing as a "porn game", it's a matter of content not of gameplay.

 

[anne O'nymous]

You kept saying that a game can't have sexual game mechanics because it would detract anyone from playing the game when they are not horny.

No, it's absolutely not what I'm saying.
There's a (big) difference between "it can't be constant", and "it can't exist at all".

I am talking about games that are designed to "get you off".

And, as I said, those games are extremely rare in the scene.
Since Karinn's Prison, that you systematically take as example isn't one of them, I wonder if you ever played one. The purpose of the game is more to rise your arousing, and therefore preliminaries to your fap session ; in a way, you build the scenario in the game, then later fap about it being reality.
What doesn't mean that you can't fap while playing it, just that it's not designed for this. Exactly like the fact that you can fap while looking at KPop girls band videos doesn't mean that they are porn videos.

That means that the purpose of someone playing said game is to jack off.

And that mean that any game mechanisms come between the player and his goal.

Firstly because the majority use the same hand to fap and to use the mouse. Secondly because having to think about what should be your next move take you out of the lewd cloud you want to be when fapping.

 

[Ophanim]

And that mean that any game mechanisms come between the player and his goal.

Firstly because the majority use the same hand to fap and to use the mouse. Secondly because having to think about what should be your next move take you out of the lewd cloud you want to be when fapping.

Okay, so I've been following along with this topic.

Maybe it's because I'm not a guy, or maybe I just play these games weird, but I don't really find that working out what to do next takes me out of the situation? If anything, it makes the situation more immersive for me as a player, depending on what the situation is, I guess. For the kind of battlefuck titles that have been mentioned, it's absolutely part of the appeal, I think. Nulnil is clearly interacting with games differently to how you expect them to in some way here, hence the disconnect you two are having.

I guess the question is, does it matter whether the developer's intent is to get you off? Like, what does it even mean to say a game is 'designed' to get you off, when what situations, fetishes, etc get people off differs so wildly, and some people aren't even playing with that intent?

Also, nulnil are you also a fan of game over rape, level drain, those sorts of mechanics? This 'presentation' thing kind of feels like you're trying to explain, as an enjoyer of dubcon/noncon games with sexual combat, where the simulation of the negotiation of consent is the important thing for your arousal, that it's a superior form of erotic gaming to people who don't really get what you're talking about. I mean, I also enjoy games with those kinds of mechanics, but I wouldn't say it's objectively good design just because it makes me horny, right?

Idk, just a hunch. Sorry if I'm overstepping there, but it feels like the sort of vaguely confusing discussion I might have with someone over why I actually enjoy game over rape as a mechanic haha