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Others Shadow over Meridia [v0.82] [GratuitousLove]
- Thread starter GratuitousLove
- Start date
Buddy, I get it, and I agree with the idea that "AI", the way that it's being made today, is unethical(while also having a problem calling these database processing programs "AI", since frankly, they're not), but this dev is NOT some unethical pseudo artist peddling other people's art as their own, they are, as a matter of fact, creating their own creative endeavor, one step at a time, they're simply using "AI" art as a crutch to get their vision going.Stop picking on little ol' me, I'm only profiting from and enabling the further exploitation of other real creative people and normalizing anti-human technology and theft-by-proxy.
Don't hate the players, hate the game!
I take zero personal responsibility for my actions!
Ignore my awful shitty decisions, because there's someone over there doing way worse, so that makes it okay! Why haven't you ignored me yet?
Notice how none of your defenses at all stem from 'this is my creative vision', because if you actually had one, you wouldn't be farming it off said vision to a machine that did it for you. You just cry how it's not actually shitty to other people (it is), and ignores how it serves to further alienate and exploit the very medium you are working in (it does). Again, nothing you have said here rises above 'Fuck you, I got mine!' other than to whine and add the addendum '...so stop being mean about it!'. You have every opportunity to use non-exploitative means to generate visuals, and you keep taking and trying to defend the most exploitative one. This isn't going to a Dollar Store to buy food, because it's the only thing you can afford while keeping a roof over your head. You have other options, you just choose not to use them out of personal convenience.
But, if you really are so desperate that you need to exploit other artists via proxy using silicon valley parlor tricks, why aren't YOU spending more of you time lobbying your government to help raise you out of such desperation, rather than stepping on the backs of your fellow proletariat? You sure as shit aren't a capital holder. Even your feeble arguments are actually an indictment against yourself...
There WAS a time in the past where perverted indie game devs had done the same, only replacing the "AI" art with essentially stealing others art and at most simply giving them credit, if even that. Slavemaker is the first that comes to mind. Regardless, the only difference between that and this, is that there's a mid-point which allows for greater creative freedom with the added caveat that said point, that being the companies that made the "AI", do not even give credit to the artists whose art-styles they emulate, preventing creators, such as the dev here, from giving credit where credit is due if they wish to benefit from the additional "freedom"(for lack of a better word) that "AI" art provides. There's also the qualitative cost, but that's a moot point in this discussion.
Significantly, however, and if you'll listen to nothing else, at least listen to this, you must remember, the dev is spending some of the money they've earned from making a game based on "AI" art, something you've established takes money making opportunities away from artists who need it, to commission art from the very people "AI" art is meant to be depriving, something they likely couldn't finance initially for obvious reasons.
Once again, cause I like hearing myself talk, they're using the very tool that would normally hinder an artist's ability to make money to fund commissions that make money for artists. Like it or not, "AI" is here to stay, it very likely will never go away, no matter how much we screech and howl. People like the dev, though I'm certainly not claiming they're doing it on purpose, are exactly the sort of way "AI" art SHOULD be used, potentially only 1 of 2/3 ethical ways you can use "AI"(the other being personal use or for actual creative inspiration, which I'm not sure if it should count as its own use), since it provides the funds for an independent creator to finance the very victims of this tool.
I get it, you're passionate about this, but the person you've been ranting at is also someone just trying to scrape on by, and while there is some room to debate as to whether or not they deserve criticism for relying on "AI" art, you need to also give them props for what they have created outside of that. They are, after all, in the same category as those who would suffer in the prominence of AI, an independent individual trying to bring their own vision to life. At the very least, you ought to recognize that.
tl;dr: Dev's used the bane of artist's commissions to make money to commission art while bringing their own vision to life, and I think that's kind of poetic, yeh?
Btw, even if I said people overacting over AI and as absurd as it might look as I'm using it, I wished they never existed. Not for for the same reason (I really don't care that AI could be in violation of interllectual property that shouldn't even exist to begin with), but it will bring a lot of trouble to the world (Spreading fake news isn't too common with AI now but I'm sure it will, and there are freak that use it to make some revenge porn or I don't know how to call it to attack women or other sad things like that). The thing is not using AI won't make them disapear.
No matter how you see it, AI is just the continiuty of technical progress, and boycot AI because it "steals" from artist is just as dumb as boycoting food because machine replaced most peasant's job, or cloth or any manufactured good really.
If you want to attack someone/a company, don't attack them because of the tool they use, attack them because you don't like where their money goes (and trust me or not, but I probably spent more or less 100% of the money I got from patreon into either artist or help for the game, which mean that I earned 0€ myself despite the fact that I've been working full time on it.
I'm not saying it to complain, in fact I like my life, I'm lucky enough to live in France in which (for now but unfortunately it might not last) you have a minimum amount of money you receive when you have no ressources, which is ok for me as all I need to be happy is cheap food and internet. As long as I'm learning (and I've learned much more things making those game than when I was in school) I'm happy.
Been a while, finally got some time:
I did chapter 17 yesterday night finished it today. Pretty difficult map, very well designed.
3 fronts, balance your funds between 3 fronts and each front has a purpose:
Middle: Since enemies heavily outclass you with their building bonus, they have to stall enemies as long as possible and draw as many enemies out.
I had to redo the map because my middle front collapsed, but I found a better strat to hold the middle front.
I buy additional healer and archers later, while stealing Royal Guards from Dark Gift.
Left: I build 2 archers the first 2 turns and stall for a few turns until going for a big push, two of the enemy building bonus are located here, so they have 2nd highest priority to advance forward.
Right: This is the most important front, Chloe and Flonne's team have to push as aggressively as possible, converting enemies on their way and capture the first 2 crystals asap or the boss will just overwhelm with repeated 2dmg AOE. I buy an archer and 2nd turn a scout to wall off the bottom Royal Guard as I only have enough power to convert the one near the crystal and prevent him from going after Chloe.
This is how my turn 3 looks:
Right: I sacced both spear enemies to the Royal Guards so Chloe can push the first crystal and start slowing down the rate the boss can use his 2 AOE dmg.
middle: I prepared to build wall
I saved every turn so I could screenshot more, but it's a very long map and would take a while to capture my whole strat.
I did chapter 17 yesterday night finished it today. Pretty difficult map, very well designed.
3 fronts, balance your funds between 3 fronts and each front has a purpose:
Middle: Since enemies heavily outclass you with their building bonus, they have to stall enemies as long as possible and draw as many enemies out.
I had to redo the map because my middle front collapsed, but I found a better strat to hold the middle front.
I buy additional healer and archers later, while stealing Royal Guards from Dark Gift.
Left: I build 2 archers the first 2 turns and stall for a few turns until going for a big push, two of the enemy building bonus are located here, so they have 2nd highest priority to advance forward.
Right: This is the most important front, Chloe and Flonne's team have to push as aggressively as possible, converting enemies on their way and capture the first 2 crystals asap or the boss will just overwhelm with repeated 2dmg AOE. I buy an archer and 2nd turn a scout to wall off the bottom Royal Guard as I only have enough power to convert the one near the crystal and prevent him from going after Chloe.
This is how my turn 3 looks:
Right: I sacced both spear enemies to the Royal Guards so Chloe can push the first crystal and start slowing down the rate the boss can use his 2 AOE dmg.
middle: I prepared to build wall
I saved every turn so I could screenshot more, but it's a very long map and would take a while to capture my whole strat.
Yeah, despite this chapter not being the last one, I really wanted to feel like the final battle. It's long and in hardest difficulty designed to be challenging, but unlike training ground I wanted it to be Asymetric.
I wanted the emperor and Chloe to have different approach despite both having brainwashing power. It made it harder to balance, but I'm happy with the result.
Must have taken a lot of effort to balance chapter 16 and 17 this well
Well they really have to be, some chapter are mostly there for the story, but when there is a big fight like this one or a fight that is meant to be somewhat "fair" like the previous one, you have to feel it in gameplay.
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- Jan 3, 2021
- 1,106
- 3,563
Who went out of their way to personally respond to my forum post and start this whole cavalcade of idiocy in the first place?
YOU DID.
I wasn't sending you DM's. I wasn't hunting you down, forcing you to engage with me. I had zero expectation that the dev would get so butthurt at my yelling into the void that they'd spend the next few days pathetically defending their shitty choices, only to cry and run away when their ass couldn't cash the checks their mouth was writing.
Fucking 'harassment' my ass...
- Jan 3, 2021
- 1,106
- 3,563
You are just far more trusting, and perhaps more naïve or less cynical. I don't have any reason to believe what the dev says, because just using generative AI makes me suspect everything. You are assuming and giving them the benefit of the doubt when they claim they're doing their own writing and coding and chalking that up as points in their favor; whereas all I see is someone who is clearly signaling their willingness to cut corners, throw others under the bus, and undermine the very fundamentals of the industry they're operating in, all for personal gain. They could very well be telling the truth, but I have no reason to take their words at face value, especially when they're trying to defend their selfish and shitty choices.
When a petro-chemical corporation goes and plants a bunch of trees to 'carbon offset' their actions, we call that 'green washing'. Does that 'green washing' actually do anything to solve the problem of them dumping run-off into the local water supply? Not really. So I'm not swayed by the argument that 'good actions later absolve shitty actions earlier', especially when taking non-shitty actions were always a viable option. If this dev was always going to eventually commission other real artists and the AI is just intended as a place-holder, they could have not used AI to make place-holder assets. Again, this website is awash in counter-examples. Daz 3D, Honey Select or Koihatsu, repurposed real porn, or even just doing your own rough sketches in MS Paint or GIMP. But no, they chose the expedient and exploitative option. I do not respect that choice, and retroactive justification doesn't change that for me.
Plus this all stemmed from my original post, calling out how the banner image is awash with a cavalcade of different art styles for each character, and how that's indicative of how little effort was put into that presentation (which I still stand by). The dev got so personally butthurt from this, they went out of their way to start arguing with me, trying to justify their actions. At no point through all of this has the original observation been address; that the dev cared so little and put so little effort into the AI prompts already doing the work for them, they couldn't even get a semi-consistent output. Was adding 'in the style of 90's anime' really just too much of an ask? It is so obviously bad looking and lazy, that even if all of those characters were actually the product of commissioned work, it would still be indicative of complete nonsensical art direction on the part of the person commissioning them.