VN Ren'Py Shadows of Ambition [Ch.4.5] [AbyssGames]

[Harted]

Can I ask, what is the thinking behind this being a kinetic novel and not a game? It seems like it wouldn't be too hard to turn into a game, which would presumably lead to more interest. I realize that there may be a need for some alternative scenes but some games on this site do a good job of keeping the complexity down while still offering choice.

I find it better as a kinetic novel tbh. By game what do you mean, like choices or rpgm?

 

[AbyssGames]

Can I ask, what is the thinking behind this being a kinetic novel and not a game? It seems like it wouldn't be too hard to turn into a game, which would presumably lead to more interest. I realize that there may be a need for some alternative scenes but some games on this site do a good job of keeping the complexity down while still offering choice.

On the surface, choices don't seem like a hard thing to add and that's partly true. Writing choices or the coding part of them is easy, but the impact they have on the development time is what drives me away from them. I don't want to do simple yes/no type of choices, whether you do something or not. I want them to have a major impact on the story which would branch off into their own unique path. That's how choices should be set up. Now let's say I add 3 different paths, then every event would bring 3 choices with them and each play out in their own way. This would mean I would have to write 3x the amount of dialogue and produce 3x the amount of renders. Considering I do this part time, this would make the update cycle very long. I'm talking 6 months to produce an update with the same amount of content for each route, which now I'm able to cut that down to around 2 months.

The counter argument could be made: Well, make the updates smaller then, which is fair, but also, do you really want to play 10 minutes of an update instead of 30? 90% of the people play through every route anyway to see all the content, even if they don't like said route, they might want to see what type of renders/scenes it brings.

Another solution could be: Make the choices simple, with either yes I want this or no, I don't want this. Which again, is something I don't even consider as a proper choice, but just a way to bypass the kinetic novel type. Even if I were to do something like that, people will expect something in return for choosing yes or no in certain situations. You shouldn't be punished with less content, just because you don't want to do a certain thing. + Any dialogue referencing that specific choice event needs to be written and altered with the choice in mind, which again, doubles my workload.

TL;DR - Choices seem simple on the surface, but bring a lot of workload with them. If I were to do them, I want to do them justice and make them impactful. As a part-time game dev, I only have 2-3 hours every day to work on the game. Considering this is my first project, I didn't want to bite off more than I can chew. I want to build trust with the community with a quality product and gain as much experience as possible in order to eventually make a proper game with multiple paths. Once I can grow a team to aid in me such an endeavour.

 

[Machete]

On the surface, choices don't seem like a hard thing to add and that's partly true. Writing choices or the coding part of them is easy, but the impact they have on the development time is what drives me away from them. I don't want to do simple yes/no type of choices, whether you do something or not. I want them to have a major impact on the story which would branch off into their own unique path. That's how choices should be set up. Now let's say I add 3 different paths, then every event would bring 3 choices with them and each play out in their own way. This would mean I would have to write 3x the amount of dialogue and produce 3x the amount of renders. Considering I do this part time, this would make the update cycle very long. I'm talking 6 months to produce an update with the same amount of content for each route, which now I'm able to cut that down to around 2 months.

The counter argument could be made: Well, make the updates smaller then, which is fair, but also, do you really want to play 10 minutes of an update instead of 30? 90% of the people play through every route anyway to see all the content, even if they don't like said route, they might want to see what type of renders/scenes it brings.

Another solution could be: Make the choices simple, with either yes I want this or no, I don't want this. Which again, is something I don't even consider as a proper choice, but just a way to bypass the kinetic novel type. Even if I were to do something like that, people will expect something in return for choosing yes or no in certain situations. You shouldn't be punished with less content, just because you don't want to do a certain thing. + Any dialogue referencing that specific choice event needs to be written and altered with the choice in mind, which again, doubles my workload.

TL;DR - Choices seem simple on the surface, but bring a lot of workload with them. If I were to do them, I want to do them justice and make them impactful. As a part-time game dev, I only have 2-3 hours every day to work on the game. Considering this is my first project, I didn't want to bite off more than I can chew. I want to build trust with the community with a quality product and gain as much experience as possible in order to eventually make a proper game with multiple paths. Once I can grow a team to aid in me such an endeavour.

Absolutely right, friends. But then the question is 'why bother clicking?'. You could go for a webcomic, an animated serie or that kind of media i can't recall the name, but it's basically a partially animated comic content they usually use to pitch an idea. Or at last the autoforeward option, but it probably has it already.

If there is no choice to be made the click for transiction, the save/load function, the title menu, the options and so on are all basically redundant.

I don't mean to critic, it's just an observation.

 

[AbyssGames]

Absolutely right, friends. But then the question is 'why bother clicking?'. You could go for a webcomic, an animated serie or that kind of media i can't recall the name, but it's basically a partially animated comic content they usually use to pitch an idea. Or at last the autoforeward option, but it probably has it already.

If there is no choice to be made the click for transiction, the save/load function, the title menu, the options and so on are all basically redundant.

I don't mean to critic, it's just an observation.

It's definitely a fair assessment, I view it the same as to: Why bother watching a tv-series or an anime or a movie? We can't alter the story. We're just spectating what happens, but that doesn't mean the movie/anime/series can't be good and enjoyable to watch.

For me, the downsides of adding choices outweigh the positives of not adding them at this point my journey. I've only started end of last November. I still have a lot to learn and in the future, I hope to be able to create something truly unique and meaningful. (I'm not saying Shadows of Amibition isn't meaningful, I just don't have the available resources to do something like that currently.)

If that means for certain people that this game/comic/novel is shit and not worth a try, so be it.

 

[Alleykatt]

It's your baby, you should do what you are comfortable with. I think one of the things that can kill any creativity is devs trying to pander to the critics. However, I confess that I usually just skip kinetic novels with no choices because I find them a bit boring. I skipped your game initially too and the only reason I came to try it was because I saw your CivitAI page and liked the art.

 

[AbyssGames]

It's your baby, you should do what you are comfortable with. I think one of the things that can kill any creativity is devs trying to pander to the critics. However, I confess that I usually just skip kinetic novels with no choices because I find them a bit boring. I skipped your game initially too and the only reason I came to try it was because I saw your CivitAI page and liked the art.

Eh, the way I see it, a good story, whether it is kinetic or has choices, will still be a good story. A shit game whether is kinetic or has choices, will still be a shit game.

 

[shadw213]

It's definitely a fair assessment, I view it the same as to: Why bother watching a tv-series or an anime or a movie? We can't alter the story. We're just spectating what happens, but that doesn't mean the movie/anime/series can't be good and enjoyable to watch.

For me, the downsides of adding choices outweigh the positives of not adding them at this point my journey. I've only started end of last November. I still have a lot to learn and in the future, I hope to be able to create something truly unique and meaningful. (I'm not saying Shadows of Amibition isn't meaningful, I just don't have the available resources to do something like that currently.)

If that means for certain people that this game/comic/novel is shit and not worth a try, so be it.

When you finish Shadows of Ambition and start another project, will it also be NTS or something else?