VN Ren'Py Shattered Dreams: Redemption [v0.5] [Nebula Dreams]

[Dessolos]

And this is precisely what I mean when I say that there is no making people happy with discarded LI's. Unless the act removes them from the rest of the game, some idiot is going to cry NTR or turn it into a debate. And you can sit here and argue semantics, say you suggested it, but you're still sitting here arguing about it. The dev has every right to roll his eyes and call out the behavior.

I have no respect for anyone crying trauma on these forums. Find a hole and shove your trigger warnings up them. I don't see him saying his audience is too stupid to accept that characters have moved on, but I am saying that about you. Personally, I really hate games that force you into sexual encounters w/o any player agency. I also really hate games that are kinetic novels where every "decision" is "see sex scene or not." And I hate kinetic novels most of all bc I have never, ever seen a single KN whose story isn't complete shit. If I don't see those issues mentioned or that the tags exist, I will leave a response and move on. I don't go in and write several thesis length comments arguing a position you also refuse to take. Just. Fucking. Stop.

So, despite having not played this game yet, but having read your argument with the dev, let me take the low road for him - This game is not intended for people with Main Character Syndrome. If you expect your exes to build a shrine to you in their closet and worship you rather than seeking their own happiness, this game is not for you. Look at BAD. DPC's writing to avoid the accusations of NTR, which means even on different playthroughs you will never see a potential LI with another character sexually, not even on a date unless there are hours of the female saying she doesn't want to date the guy. It reduces all of the different possible relationships we might face irl to two. Those are purely transactional or fairytale. Fairytale could mean harems, which only work if you hold the power of life and death over those women, or fairytale as in happily ever after just in general. You'll never see a chick say, "I'm not going to join your harem," and then you see them out on a date bc people like you quite literally can't process that other people, even fictional ones, don't simply exist for your personal pleasure.

It's impossible to tell a compelling story when you are afraid to offend someone. I'm not saying the fact that this devs writing has offended you inherently makes it a great story, but the fact that he's ok with you being uncomfortable shows he has something that 99% of writers today are utterly lacking. It's why writers like GRRM and even guys like DPC will never actually be able to deliver their characters the endings they deserve - for better or worse. It's why every tv show is either canceled or has the worst possible ending. And, hopefully, it means that this story will never descend into a fan fic ghost written by his audience.

honestly I tried to read his post but keep seeing the word NTR thrown around and when I got to his first post and was gonna read from the start it seemed like nonsense or a non issue to me . As I didn't single a single thing he complained about in his first post when I played the game.

 

[Nebula Dreams]

It's impossible to tell a compelling story when you are afraid to offend someone. I'm not saying the fact that this devs writing has offended you inherently makes it a great story, but the fact that he's ok with you being uncomfortable shows he has something that 99% of writers today are utterly lacking. It's why writers like GRRM and even guys like DPC will never actually be able to deliver their characters the endings they deserve - for better or worse. It's why every tv show is either canceled or has the worst possible ending. And, hopefully, it means that this story will never descend into a fan fic ghost written by his audience.

I think you’ve perfectly summed up my mindset when it comes to creating a story.

A story where the MC faces no real struggles, no obstacles that actually challenge him (or ones that are solved with lazy writing), and no contradictions for the player/viewer to grapple with—that’s just boring.

How many times have I come across a story—whether it’s a game, series, or movie—where, halfway through, I could already predict the ending?
The main character will miraculously solve everything, thanks to some easy writting with losing nothing at all.

But the best stories I’ve ever watched or played?
They shocked me, defied my expectations, and took the risk of offending me when I least expected it.

(SPOILER WARNING !)

Breaking Bad, never in my life did I expect Walter White to not recover from cancer and to really Breaking Bad, to the point of destroying his family, causing his brother-in-law's death, and ruining his partner/friend out of pure power-hungry greed. (And his redemption in the final scene makes the story even more awesome)

SNK, never in my life did I expect to see Eren turn into a genocidal maniac and be killed by his own friends.

Game of Thrones, never in my life did I expect I’d see so many main characters brutally killed (Ned, Robb, etc.), even if the ending wasn’t great.

Cyberpunk 2077, never in my life did I expect V to not find a cure or that I’d grow so attached to a 'terrorist' who originally wanted me dead the first time we met.

Of course, before these surprises, these stories already had great characters, immersive worlds, and strong narratives.

But if you remove the risks they took, they become bland and predictable.
What’s the point of telling a story if, from the very beginning, the player/viewer has already guessed exactly how it’s going to end?

And to wrap up with my two all-time favorite games, RDR2 and CP2077, both stories share one major thing in common:

They gave their main characters a realistic ending and the ending they deserved, as characters.

CP2077 condemns V to death, or (with the DLC ending) to survival at the cost of losing his identity, instead of giving players a miraculous cure that magically gonna saves him.

RDR2 condemns Arthur to death, and has him betrayed by the very man he looked up to, instead of giving him a miraculous cure for tuberculosis or having Dutch suddenly change his mind at the last second just to deliver a happy ending that wouldn’t upset players.

Both games stayed true to their stories, took risks, and refused to sacrifice their integrity just to make sure nobody got upset.

Because, by trying to not offend anyone in order to please everyone, you end up satisfying no one.

 

[Tomy75]

I'm just discovering this gem now and I love it already. Jennie is my favorite and Lena is just an annoying brat so I rejected her already.
Nebula Dreams great work, I can't wait to see more!

 

[Dessolos]

I'm just discovering this gem now and I love it already. Jennie is my favorite and Lena is just an annoying brat so I rejected her already.
Nebula Dreams great work, I can't wait to see more!

yeah Jennie is my favorite tho I do disagree with Lena is a annoying brat not thing seemed annoying to me about her character but that is just me. She isn't my top 2 picks or anything but I still like her enough. tbh I like everyone even my least favorite LI Maddison ( but that is cause I need to wait till her romance path starts and it stops being a FWB relationship)

 

[MiltonPowers]

I'm just discovering this gem now and I love it already. Jennie is my favorite and Lena is just an annoying brat so I rejected her already.
Nebula Dreams great work, I can't wait to see more!

I thought the same of Lena in Episode 1, but I did a path for her anyway and she really started to grow on me and stop being so annoying during Episode 2 as she becomes more open with MC. She's still #5 for me, but she became much more likable for me during Episode 2.

 

[Skylaroo]

As I didn't single a single thing he complained about in his first post when I played the game.

The reason is simple, it's because he complained about something that isn't currently in the game, 200% convinced that what is in his mind is what is in dev's mind while claiming that he is speaking to represent dev's target audience despite never playing the game. It's the kind of complaint that purely only exists in his imagination while screaming out loud trying to convince everyone that it's real.

I'm just discovering this gem now and I love it already. Jennie is my favorite and Lena is just an annoying brat so I rejected her already.
@Nebula Dreams great work, I can't wait to see more!

Looking at Dessolos and MiltonPowers response with their different opinions about the characters, I really like how this game has many people having different preferences about the LIs. I feel like every LI has a good point that makes me understand why someone can like any of them.

 

[Nebula Dreams]

Status update about version 0.3 available

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[Jack12344321]

Love your game Nebula Dreams.

 

[goulet1995]

I think you’ve perfectly summed up my mindset when it comes to creating a story.

A story where the MC faces no real struggles, no obstacles that actually challenge him (or ones that are solved with lazy writing), and no contradictions for the player/viewer to grapple with—that’s just boring.

How many times have I come across a story—whether it’s a game, series, or movie—where, halfway through, I could already predict the ending?
The main character will miraculously solve everything, thanks to some easy writting with losing nothing at all.

But the best stories I’ve ever watched or played?
They shocked me, defied my expectations, and took the risk of offending me when I least expected it.

(SPOILER WARNING !)

Breaking Bad, never in my life did I expect Walter White to not recover from cancer and to really Breaking Bad, to the point of destroying his family, causing his brother-in-law's death, and ruining his partner/friend out of pure power-hungry greed. (And his redemption in the final scene makes the story even more awesome)

SNK, never in my life did I expect to see Eren turn into a genocidal maniac and be killed by his own friends.

Game of Thrones, never in my life did I expect I’d see so many main characters brutally killed (Ned, Robb, etc.), even if the ending wasn’t great.

Cyberpunk 2077, never in my life did I expect V to not find a cure or that I’d grow so attached to a 'terrorist' who originally wanted me dead the first time we met.

Of course, before these surprises, these stories already had great characters, immersive worlds, and strong narratives.

But if you remove the risks they took, they become bland and predictable.
What’s the point of telling a story if, from the very beginning, the player/viewer has already guessed exactly how it’s going to end?

And to wrap up with my two all-time favorite games, RDR2 and CP2077, both stories share one major thing in common:

They gave their main characters a realistic ending and the ending they deserved, as characters.

CP2077 condemns V to death, or (with the DLC ending) to survival at the cost of losing his identity, instead of giving players a miraculous cure that magically gonna saves him.

RDR2 condemns Arthur to death, and has him betrayed by the very man he looked up to, instead of giving him a miraculous cure for tuberculosis or having Dutch suddenly change his mind at the last second just to deliver a happy ending that wouldn’t upset players.

Both games stayed true to their stories, took risks, and refused to sacrifice their integrity just to make sure nobody got upset.

Because, by trying to not offend anyone in order to please everyone, you end up satisfying no one.

is the scene avoidable or skippable

 

[Dessolos]

is the scene avoidable or skippable

if I recall correctly everything but the first 2 sex scenes I think with your FWB are avoidable.

 

[AlexMpog]

if I recall correctly everything but the first 2 sex scenes I think with your FWB are avoidable.

I think he is asking about the possible FF scene (when you're not on the LI's route), that scene doesn't even exist yet.

 

[Dessolos]

I think he is asking about the possible FF scene (when you're not on the LI's route), that scene doesn't exist yet.

ah okay I was honestly confused what scene he was talking about

 

[Nebula Dreams]

is the scene avoidable or skippable

Let's say the LI in question has 5 paths. In 4 of these paths, the scene doesn’t exist in the story (I'm not sure if you consider that "avoidable").
For the remaining path, where the player treats the LI poorly, the player will understand that the LI kisses another girl, and whether they choose to watch or not, the scene will remain in the story for that path.
Moreover, to treat the LI poorly, the player will have to do it twice. As I said, your choices lead to your consequences

It's like any voyeurism scene—for example, if you stumble upon a couple fucking in a park, whether you choose to watch or not, the scene still exists. The difference here is that your choices give you have the possibility for it to exist or not

 

[Dessolos]

Let's say the LI in question has 5 paths. In 4 of these paths, the scene doesn’t exist in the story (I'm not sure if you consider that "avoidable").
For the remaining path, where the player treats the LI poorly, the player will understand that the LI kisses another girl, and whether they choose to watch or not, the scene will remain in the story for that path.
Moreover, to treat the LI poorly, the player will have to do it twice. As I said, your choices lead to your consequences

It's like any voyeurism scene—for example, if you stumble upon a couple fucking in a park, whether you choose to watch or not, the scene still exists. The difference here is that your choices give you have the possibility for it to exist or not

o damn looks like I got to set up more saves once I figure what LI that is lol. Especially cause I never treat a LI poorly haha

 

[AlexMpog]

Especially cause I never treat a LI poorly haha

so now you're deliberately gonna treat her poorly to get that scene, that's evil))

 

[Nebula Dreams]

New status update about version 0.3 available

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[striker.js]

I was disappointed with the main character within the first 5-10 minutes of the start of the story.

First, he doesn't care about his lover's pleasure and is so selfish (and/or ignorant/stupid if he believes his only way of giving a woman an orgasm is by using his dick) that he couldn't be bothered to either offer or attempt to give her an orgasm. This promotes the stereotype towards men that they don't care about their partners and are only worried about getting themselves off.

Second, despite formerly being an elite athlete he is foolish enough to smoke cigarettes at his young age. Many people have loved ones (my mother in my case) who suffered for long periods of time, and in many cases died, from cancer caused by cigarette smoke and the 'treatments' (that are in many ways more horrible than the disease itself) used to try to cure this terrible disease.

I know that cigarettes can be very addictive and I'm not trying to guilt long-term smokers. The reason I mention this is because the game is fictional fantasy so it seems irresponsible making MC a smoker. Does the benefit of having MC smoke cigarettes in the game outweigh the potential social/ethical/economic impact of promoting cigarettes and enticing other people to start smoking (by indirectly giving free advertising to tobacco companies that are unable to legally purchase ads in many countries due to ethical concerns)?

Definitely not a good first impression of the MC or the game.... I'm not going to mention it again but it is something for people to consider.

 

[Skylaroo]

Definitely not a good first impression of the MC or the game.... I'm not going to mention it again but it is something for people to consider.

I have completed my consideration. Not a good impression for someone on a pirate site to porn game to be claiming moral high ground on male stereotype and cigarettes. This is a porn game, it really isn't trying to send any strong moral message to the world.

 

[MiltonPowers]

I was disappointed with the main character within the first 5-10 minutes of the start of the story.

First, he doesn't care about his lover's pleasure and is so selfish (and/or ignorant/stupid if he believes his only way of giving a woman an orgasm is by using his dick) that he couldn't be bothered to either offer or attempt to give her an orgasm. This promotes the stereotype towards men that they don't care about their partners and are only worried about getting themselves off.

Second, despite formerly being an elite athlete he is foolish enough to smoke cigarettes at his young age. Many people have loved ones (my mother in my case) who suffered for long periods of time, and in many cases died, from cancer caused by cigarette smoke and the 'treatments' (that are in many ways more horrible than the disease itself) used to try to cure this terrible disease.

I know that cigarettes can be very addictive and I'm not trying to guilt long-term smokers. The reason I mention this is because the game is fictional fantasy so it seems irresponsible making MC a smoker. Does the benefit of having MC smoke cigarettes in the game outweigh the potential social/ethical/economic impact of promoting cigarettes and enticing other people to start smoking (by indirectly giving free advertising to tobacco companies that are unable to legally purchase ads in many countries due to ethical concerns)?

Definitely not a good first impression of the MC or the game.... I'm not going to mention it again but it is something for people to consider.

He wouldn't have been smoking cigarettes while playing sport. It's something that he picked up after he saw his dreams go down the drain. I saw it more as a "what the fuck, my life is over, who cares, I'm just going to do what I want."

Perhaps, as a result of moving into a successful relationship with one of the LIs and start giving his life meaning and purpose again, the cigarettes might be something he gives up. ?

 

[striker.js]

I have completed my consideration. Not a good impression for someone on a pirate site to porn game to be claiming moral high ground on male stereotype and cigarettes. This is a porn game, it really isn't trying to send any strong moral message to the world.

I'm sorry you felt threatened, but there's no need to get defensive or to build strawmen because I'm not claiming moral high ground. I mostly wanted to take the opportunity to build awareness of some of the consequences of smoking cigarettes.