kind of dumb point most people will do multiple saves for the characters there interested in since its not a harem it might not be active path but that dosnt mean interest in character is gone
- Thread starter Nebula Dreams
- Start date
- May 28, 2017
- 1,934
- 5,142
If you're making multiple saves for different girls without being able to separate your interest, then that's on you.
- Dec 6, 2024
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I didn’t want to go into too much detail about what triggers this scene, but let’s just say it only happens if the MC rejects the LI while acting like an asshole.
So theoretically, if you’re emotionally attached to this LI (and would likely start again a save to play her path), then you wouldn’t have any reason to treat her like an asshole in the first place and more importantly, you’ll learn by someone during the party that this scene might happen, so if you choose to watch it while still being emotionally attached to her, then you’re being illogical with yourself.
(If you didn’t treat the LI like an asshole, this scene will never happen and won’t exist in your path)
And before anyone asks, "Yeah, this is some kind of punishment"—No, because the LI isn’t doing this to taunt the MC. She’s simply moved on with her life and you’re simply seeing the reality of life—the girl didn’t just stop living after her moments with the MC.
And once again, if you don’t like the idea that a girl just continues living her life, like every other character in the game’s universe, then this game isn’t for you.
You might see some of them with a new job, a new hair color, etc.—and if you make the right choices, these meetings will go well.
But if you acted poorly and make the wrong choices, don’t expect the LI in question to be happy to see you again—and that’s completely normal.
Please, explain your point—I truly have no issue discussing this as long as we keep it civil.
- Dec 6, 2024
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- Nov 17, 2020
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Nebula Dreams Like the game so far. I get this won't be a harem game but do have a question. Will there be a point where we decide to choose one over all the others and it be made clear? Right now I am fooling around with them all but there have been no discussions about being in a relationship yet either. Also, if we end up choosing one lass, will we still be able to be a friend and help out the others? Like if we choose Maddison over everyone else, will we still be able to help Mina get away from her asshole manager?
- Dec 6, 2024
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I use an example for this one.
Let’s say you’ve been fooling around with multiple LIs, and one of them shows up and tells you she wants to take things to the next level—asking if you’re willing to commit to a possible relationship with her.
If you accept, you’ll see in the story that the MC acknowledges that he should stop things with the other four LIs, but it won’t happen automatically.
When you meet one of the other four LIs again, if you continue fooling around and don't say stop to her, it’ll be at your own risk in the game.
And yes, you can still remain friends with the LIs you didn’t choose—you can even help them out if you’ve treated them respectfully and didn’t act like an ass.
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- Dec 22, 2022
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Nope, there is no money for the ring
.Don't worry guys, a detailed guide on how to walk through this minefield without blowing anything up will appear
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- Feb 8, 2023
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Does need a walkthrough that's for sure.Nope, there is no money for the ring
Don't worry guys, a detailed guide on how to walk through this minefield without blowing anything up will appear
- Nov 17, 2020
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That is what I was hoping for, once the first one asks, that is where I will make my branching save. From there, I can play all the routes and fwiw, once I commit, just like irl, I do not mess around with the others hearts...unless it is a game and it is labeled harem.
I lived as a swinger for about 15 years but me and my two partners during that time period(first one wanted to get out of it and have kids, so I let her go fulfill her dreams, to my sadness, second one ended when covid took me out of the lifestyle), had an agreement on what we would and would not do. We did partner swapping in the same room, a few threesomes but we never did anything outside of the same room or where one of us was left out of the actual sex.
- Dec 6, 2024
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Nope, there is no money for the ring
Don't worry guys, a detailed guide on how to walk through this minefield without blowing anything up will appear
If a walkthrough ever becomes truly necessary in the future, I’ll consider making one.
But I also like the idea of players making their own choices, rather than just following a guide on the "best" decisions to take for the "optimal" path.
For example, one of the best choice-based games is Detroit: Become Human.
When you play it, you make decisions based on what you believe is right, your personal preference for a character, etc. And in the end, there are many possible endings—but who decides which one is the 'best' ending?
And, is there even a good ending?
These are complex topics, but I’ll see in the future.
- Dec 22, 2022
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The best thing about D:BH is that it has a map full of paths showing every important decision.
You just follow this "map" without any other guide and you won't get lost.
- Dec 6, 2024
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The map is especially useful for replayability, indeed.
Instead of making a classic walkthrough like 'Choice A = Good choice, Choice B = Bad choice' for every decision, it could be more about showing the possible 'outcomes' of each scene/path.
I’d need to find a balance, but I’ll keep that in mind.
- Dec 22, 2022
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Oh no, my comment was just a compliment on something I liked about that game over 6 years ago. I think something like that would break RenPy, which is more thought out for a novel and such
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- Feb 8, 2023
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I am unsure why I am being asked if a girl is my fling or something else when I have never done anything with her or led her on.
- Dec 6, 2024
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My bad, and yeah, I wouldn’t have done that in RenPy but rather through an external tool.Oh no, my comment was just a compliment on something I liked about that game over 6 years ago. I think something like that would break RenPy, which is more thought out for a novel and such
She’s asking you what you envision for her, so "A fling" doesn’t mean that you see her that way before that question.
But I think it's maybe a translation mistake from my original sentence—the meaning of "A fling" here was more like "just for fun, like some teasing, etc..", not necessarily a booty call.
- Oct 24, 2018
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You say similar, I say the literal opposite.
You can't watch it since it only occurs when you are in a relationship with them, BOTH OF THEM. When is your scene triggering, what are the characters' relationship with the MC at the time the scene takes place? When is that info
This you?
I say romance players don't want and see details about the romance option's past and current non MC sex life, he pretends I want virgins. Like...what is there to say. I'm too bored to quote every single line that you purposely misinterpret the same way, just so you can pretend you have an argument. The post is too long on its own, but anyone can just go back and read every time you quote me...
What is your obsession with my 4k posts in half a decade on this site? What are you trying to prove?
Are you so pressed that you tried to 2v1 me and it didn't work out well, that you started throwing the most random shit to see if it sticks? I have an idea, make fun of my grammar next, that will show me Why does the scene need to exist? Like we already ran down multiple posts ago, its clearly not to portray her as moving on because you don't need sex scenes to do that. You just don't. If that is the only way you could come up with to relay that info to the player then you have bigger problems as a writer than dealing with my 'trolling'
Answer me this, since you keep pretending it has nothing to do with
a) punishing the player,
b) appealing to that type of players.
Keep in mind, that per your own admission the guys that can get the scene are people that didn't want the LI in the first place. Make it make sense...
I'm taking a bet on b with a side dish of answer c) dev finds that type of scene hot and instead of owning it, he tries to defend it the the most hilarious ways, downplaying, evading, strawmanning, using examples that directly contradict his claims, calling me names
My dude, Its the seeing. The same info can be portrayed in less 'controversial' way. People can infer things, unless you are suggesting you think your audience is too dumb and needs you to draw it in the sandbox for them to understand?
Its the rendering of unnecessary filler scenes that actually diminishes the number of people interested in that girl. Its not like you made the scene so you make the player dislike her, she is still a LI of your game. Its an illogical narrative decision, unless and we are back to that, its done to appeal to a certain crowd.
I can't find it right now, I should have saved the posts from other threads(since I obviously not consume that type of content), but I've seen popular NTR works, on big sites that have the bully fucking MC's family in a non incest novel and I am sure there are plenty of childhood crushes in NTR stories. Thats why I used emotional attachment ,because that is the only thing it actually takes to count as NTR, otherwise those works I'm talking about wouldn't exist and be popular in that crowd.
The focus on pre-existing and ongoing romantic relationship at the point of the scenes seem to be only what Japanese Scholars tm use on this site to justify tag evasion and endlessly debate semantics. Like I said, tag rules can change, so they matter little to me. What doesn't change is the narrative reason for a scene to exit. If it fits multiple of the same criteria as something else, might as well be that thing, because the only ones caring that it isn't, technically, are the ones that actually seek that type of content. Everyone else will dislike it the same way, regardless if you call it NTR, voyeurism, the Easter Bunny...that was always my point.
If someone says they hate apples, it makes them sick and you come and tell them that what they hate are not apples, but pears and you show him proof of that are indeed called pears, why do you expect that now that person after seeing that what he was calling the wrong thing will now be fine eating pears? Beacuse this is exactly what is going on when people endlessly defend 'technically not' type of content on semantics.
Why does a scene exist? Which type of player gets positive emotions from seeing it and what type of player gets negative emotions from it? Which of these crowds is my main audience? These are the only questions that matter and I can guarantee you if a dev asks themselves this before making scenes, they will avoid majority of controversies on topics like these.
M&J are the worst example he could pick, since its the opposite of his game, you get the scene if you pick you are interested and are in a relationship with them(plural, both characters), not when you pick you are not interested in one of them, like in this game.
'The waste of time' comment is common sense, if a player is not interested in a character in that route, of course the time and effort for that non MC lewd scene, in a non-fuckfest vanilla romance game would have preferably been used in the main plot and the route that advance the relationships the player DID pick.
That is ignoring the players that get turned off by it, cutting even more of that scenario's audience.
Pretty much. It doesn't quite fit a tag and 'lesbians are hot' classic f95 double standard. Suggest him to do same scene with a male character and get back to me with the reception his Romance AVN has then
~Yes, apparently even on ignore I still get notifications if I don't also block the persons and I admit, I got curious. Wanted to see if the #23188th attempt to get a back and forth would be worth it, but the dev tripled and quadrupled down on the same things he has been doing all along. Ego is one hell of a drug~
-1 devs 'helped with my advice'
- Dec 6, 2024
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So, following your logic, the tent scene with M&J should bother you?
It’s a past detail about two romance options, where we see them kissing for minutes, almost completely naked.
You love using the phrase 'rubbed into the player’s face'—so why isn’t this scene considered as such? I can’t avoid it, and I’m shown the romantic past of two potential LIs.
If you're honest with yourself, you know you've been criticizing this from the very beginning in my thread.
But you won’t be. And even if I told you that the scene we’re discussing in my game was just the LI kissing another girl without going further, you’d still find something to complain about.
Yet you did the same thing. Should I remind you that you compared voyeurism scenes to being designed for cuckolds and said that a game without them "doesn't rub it into players' faces" scenes like that :I say romance players don't want and see details about the romance option's past and current non MC sex life, he pretends I want virgins. Like...what is there to say. I'm too bored to quote every single line that you purposely misinterpret the same way, just so you can pretend you have an argument. The post is too long on its own, but anyone can just go back and read every time you quote me...
But this is not the most important part—the most important thing is the reason this debate exists, the scene.
Neither Answer A nor Answer B.Why does the scene need to exist? Like we already ran down multiple posts ago, its clearly not to portray her as moving on because you don't need sex scenes to do that. You just don't. If that is the only way you could come up with to relay that info to the player then you have bigger problems as a writer than dealing with my 'trolling'
Answer me this, since you keep pretending it has nothing to do with
a) punishing the player,
b) appealing to that type of players.
Keep in mind, that per your own admission the guys that can get the scene are people that didn't want the LI in the first place. Make it make sense...
I'm taking a bet on b with a side dish of answer c) dev finds that type of scene hot and instead of owning it, he tries to defend it the the most hilarious ways, downplaying, evading, strawmanning, using examples that directly contradict his claims, calling me names
Why isn't it Answer A?
If I wanted to 'punish the players,' I would have forced them to watch the scene, telling them that they were assholes and that they shouldn’t have made those choices. But that’s not the case, because the people who would go to see this scene are either sexually interested in watching two girls have sex or are into the voyeurism aspect of the scene (players who have the voyeur kink).
And if some people feel punished by watching such a scene and still choose to watch it of their own free will, then they’re just masochists.
Why isn't it Answer B?
Because I would have to be incredibly stupid to explicitly state that NTR will not be in the game, while secretly trying to attract players who want to feel cuckolded with a random lesbian scene buried deep in the game.
If I truly wanted to appeal to NTR players, wouldn’t I have just added actual NTR scenes from the start? Don’t you think?
"Keep in mind, that per your own admission the guys that can get the scene are people that didn't want the LI in the first place. Make it make sense..."
It would be even worse if I decided to make this scene appear in the path of players who never rejected her or chose to reject her properly.
How can players who never wanted the LI in the first place feel cuckolded when... if they harshly rejected her early on, it means they had zero emotional attachment to her, right?
You're right, just mentioning that this LI is now in a relationship with a girl is enough for players to understand what that means.
But regarding the question "Why have this scene then, if you could just have an NPC say that she’s now in a relationship with a girl?", I’ll answer that just below.
Why this scene?
Like all the other sex scenes, because it’s hot, and the way the branching works ensures that a player who chooses to watch it is:
Someone who enjoys voyeurism and/or lesbian content and who finds that this LI is attractive/hot (or not) but has never had any emotional attachment to her.
How does it target this kind of player?
It’s all in the conditions that trigger the scene.
As I’ve said, this scene only happens if you treated the girl like an asshole. And if you did that when you could have treated her well, then logically, you were never emotionally attached to her in the first place.
But, let’s consider the 'deviant' cases—I see two of them.
1. The player doesn’t like the LI but still refuses to let her get close to anyone other than the MC, even though he hate and she’s no longer an LI at that point.
If you fall into this category, that’s a (big) different issue, and I address it at the end of my message.
2. The player intentionally mistreated the girl because it "fit" the role they wanted for the MC in the story, but in reality, they’re still emotionally attached to her.
Solution to avoid hurting this type of player?
→ Give them the choice to watch or not.
At the moment the player learns that the ex-LI is upstairs kissing another girl, they can choose:
Watch the scene, fully aware that it involves the ex-LI they still have feelings for.
or
Ignore the scene, signaling that they have moved on from her.
Among these players, those who choose Option 2 are the ones who could feel hurt by seeing such a scene.
Among these players, those who choose Option 1 it fall into two categories:
- They know they are still attached to the girl, but also know that watching the scene won't bother them and that they might even find it hot. (Btw, no jealousy, no cuck, so not NTR for those players)
- They know the scene will hurt them emotionally, make them feel like cuck, but choose to watch it anyway.
And this last group (2) is the only case where you could say it might appeal to the people you claim I’m trying to target—NTR lovers.
So now, let’s address the root of the issue, the claim that I’m trying to attract NTR-lovers.
I'm going to use exaggerated numbers on purpose, just to ensure I’m not biased in writing my argument.
Let’s imagine that out of 10,000 players who play the game:
- 5,000 players decide to harshly reject this LI.
- People A (2,500 players) – They have no emotional attachment to the LI.
- People B (2,500 players) – They still have feelings for the LI.
Except they have no emotional attachment to the girl, so for them, she just becomes like any other girl.
People B are divided into two categories.
Those who choose to watch the scene and those who don’t want to see it, and we'll split them 50/50 (even though it’s not logical).
Among People B, 1,250 players decide not to watch the scene, we'll call them People C.
1,250 players decide to watch the scene, we'll call them People D.
That leaves us with People D.
And once again, we'll split them 50/50, 625 People D watch the scene because it doesn't bother them (group 1.), we'll call them People D-1.
And we would then have 625 People D who watch the scene because they consider this feeling as NTR(group 2.), so their pleasure comes from that, they are People D-2.
So to summarize, just based on a hypothesis that takes numbers in your favor, out of the 10,000 original players, only 6.25% are "NTR-lovers".
Even using numbers that are extremely favorable to your argument, only 6.25% of the player base would actively engage with the scene as NTR-content.
And I've clearly exaggerated the numbers in favor of your vision because just the first split is normally not 50% (but more like 10%, and still) of the 10,000 potential players who would treat the girl harshly when they have the chance to treat her well at that exact moment.
If such a ridiculously small percentage of players consider this as NTR and take pleasure in it, does that mean it's an NTR scene or that it's a scene designed exclusively for "cucks" who enjoy NTR?
I strongly believe it’s not, and I think the majority of players who play the game would agree.
So, do you seriously think I would have bothered creating a scene like this just to attract some potential NTR-lovers who somehow ignored the fact that I explicitly stated 'There will be no NTR in this game'?
If my real goal was to appeal to NTR fans, don’t you think I would have been way better off just adding a "NETORARE (avoidable)" tag from the start?
(Especially knowing that the Netorare community is one of the most supportive of developers.)
Why would I waste my time hiding a secret scene just to please two or three NTR-lovers, when I could have openly embraced that audience and benefited from it instead?
The real problem is the narrative you're stuck in—you’re convincing yourself that this is a scene where "it’s rubbed in your face", that you’re a cuck watching a LI you like have sex right in front of you, and that the game is depicting you as a pathetic loser.
I could have agreed with this perspective if this scene appeared in every possible path, if players were forced to watch it, and if there was an NPC taunting you, saying something like: "Hey, loser, your former crush is fucking and you're just standing there watching?"
And I'm being completely honest about that.
To wrap up this long discussion, this is the only place where people get so obsessed over the slightest potential scene that might make them feel jealous—which in their mind automatically turns them into a cuck.
A game shows an LI being flirted with by someone other than the MC? "Game for cucks/NTR fans!!!"
A game gives you the choice between a NTR path and a non-NTR path? You tear it apart anyway.
A game features a path where the vast majority of players aren’t even emotionally attached to an ex-LI who has a sexual scene? "This is a scene made to attract cucks/NTR fans!!!"
Have you ever tried to question yourself? I’m not telling you to play games with NTR if you hate it—everyone has their own preferences.
But try to be critical of yourselves—does it really make sense to go into developers' threads just to tear them down because a scene isn’t to your taste or the game isn’t structured exactly how you want it?
And beyond that, maybe you should rethink your entire relationship with the term "cuck" whenever jealousy is involved. Because let me tell you— if you this make you look like strong, dominant alphas who refuse to be "cucks" or "beta males", you're wrong. It just makes you come across as deeply insecure about yourselves and some even see you as just incels.
Don’t take this as a personal attack, but really—try to be critical of yourselves. Living with this kind of mindset is, in all honesty, not healthy and not gonna help you.