VN Ren'Py Single Again [v1.24.1.1] [Clever name games]

[MrLKX]

To take up a more on-topic subject: The situation around Abby, Lilly and Frank.

Someone has already written a relatively good overview of the situation here, but I have to disagree on one point. Abby. She was compared to Shannon in the post in question, if I'm not mistaken.

Abby is not fully aware of the feelings Lilly has for Frank. She knows Lilly is opening up to him (and not just herself, but her clothes), but doesn't assume it's more than overcompensating. This makes sense because a few weeks ago she (Lilly) absolutely couldn't stand Frank. At the same time, I think her reaction to Lilly's feelings for her stems from the fact that she (Abby) has no romantic experience. We don't know all the interactions between Abby and Lilly in the past, but I think there will have been enough banter between them in the past that Abby just dismissed it as another joke. I see more of a softer dynamic between the two here like between Lilly and Becca. Except Abby is more actively building Lilly up and supporting her. Which of course doesn't mean that Abby doesn't reprimand Lilly when she (Lilly) crosses a line. The black eye incident is an example of this. Even Frank was surprised or shocked that Abby managed to make Lilly as meek as only Shannon had managed to do. But I don't see a scenario where Abby would deliberately hurt Lilly emotionally to take advantage of her, like Shannon does.

I think the culprits in the situation, although I actually like them, are Lilly and Frank in particular.

They both know about Abby's feelings for Frank but shy away from confronting those feelings. I understand that Frank, who has spent almost 20 years raising Abby as his own flesh and blood (or better, if we take Lilly and her father as a comparison), is reluctant to act on the feelings, but I think setting Lilly up with Abby, then giving Lilly tips on how to keep Abby's drive going and still have something going on with each other on the side, without Abby knowing the slightest thing about it is a pretty low level and I would totally understand if she felt betrayed by them, especially as Lilly and Frank are the two most important people in her life.

But I agree with the statement that this situation will escalate sooner or later and it will come to blows. Abby will then have every right to be angry with both of them.

I see a certain parallel here with Lilly's ex-boyfriend's infidelity. But we can be sure that Becca has anticipated such a development, she has known Lilly all her life and knows how hesitant Frank is about Abby.

 

[underoath27]

Or both?

Yea, it is a possibility.

 

[Skep-tiker]

I suspect that Lily tried to accuse Frank of a crime to get him out of the house. Easiest for a girl would have been alleged abuse. Pretty good reason for Becca to go nucular.

Edit:
Something bugs me about the whole Abby-Lily relationship. Abby adores Frank and is very protective about him, how and why would she have or at least permit herself any amorous feelings towards Lily, who is nothing but nasty and mean to Frank? One would expect her to despise Lily for that...

 

[Maxxxed69]

Something bugs me about the whole Abby-Lily relationship. Abby adores Frank and is very protective about him, how and why would she have or at least permit herself any amorous feelings towards Lily, who is nothing but nasty and mean to Frank? One would expect her to despise Lily for that...

I could be wrong, but I think Abby is aware that Lily doesn't genuinely hate Frank and has known that for a while. I think she is aware the anger is misplaced but knows Frank can handle Lily in most situations.

 

[MrLKX]

I could be wrong, but I think Abby is aware that Lily doesn't genuinely hate Frank and has known that for a while. I think she is aware the anger is misplaced but knows Frank can handle Lily in most situations.

I think the only person who really realizes what Lilly's problem was with Frank was actually Becca. Frank had a rough idea, Shannon probably didn't care, Abby lacked the experience because she grew up with her supposed father at the time. I'm not even sure Lilly was absolutely sure what her real problem was. We can all agree that Lilly's anger against Frank was misguided, but I think she actively refused to accept the truth that even if Shannon remarried, her father could have at least tried to claim visitation rights if there was no danger to the daughter (Lilly) and he had an interest in her. But that would have required her to admit to herself that her father never loved her, something she only realized in a past update when she finally put 1+1 together who Shannon was having the affair with.

Also:
I'm just at the point where Frank had his “How I met your mother” moment. Jess promises that if she sees Shannon again she'll give her a throat punch. I'm imagining a scenario where Jess hasn't died and Jess and Frank meet the mother of their daughter's best friend.

Frank: Shannon?
Shannon: Frank?
Jess: The one who gets throat punched says what?
Shannon: Wha... OUCH!

I can't help but think that even though what we see of her may be very biased by Frank, she makes a very funny and likable impression on me. Even though it's very unlikely and I've mentioned it quite a few times, I would like to see a what if side story after the conclusion of Single Again where Jess never died and Lilly and Becca end up with Frank and Jess at 9 and 14. It would also allow us to have a scene or two with Jess, which isn't really possible in the actual plot.

 

[Maxxxed69]

I think the only person who really realizes what Lilly's problem was with Frank was actually Becca. Frank had a rough idea, Shannon probably didn't care, Abby lacked the experience because she grew up with her supposed father at the time. I'm not even sure Lilly was absolutely sure what her real problem was. We can all agree that Lilly's anger against Frank was misguided, but I think she actively refused to accept the truth that even if Shannon remarried, her father could have at least tried to claim visitation rights if there was no danger to the daughter (Lilly) and he had an interest in her. But that would have required her to admit to herself that her father never loved her, something she only realized in a past update when she finally put 1+1 together who Shannon was having the affair with.

I struggle to phrase this. While I don't think Ab's is completely aware, even after getting through the most recent update. I do have a feeling she might be catching onto us. i.e.

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I'm just at the point where Frank had his “How I met your mother” moment. Jess promises that if she sees Shannon again she'll give her a throat punch. I'm imagining a scenario where Jess hasn't died and Jess and Frank meet the mother of their daughter's best friend.

Frank: Shannon?
Shannon: Frank?
Jess: The one who gets throat punched says what?
Shannon: Wha... OUCH!

I would love to see that, I would've fallen to the floor laughing.

I can't help but think that even though what we see of her may be very biased by Frank, she makes a very funny and likable impression on me. Even though it's very unlikely and I've mentioned it quite a few times, I would like to see a what if side story after the conclusion of Single Again where Jess never died and Lilly and Becca end up with Frank and Jess at 9 and 14. It would also allow us to have a scene or two with Jess, which isn't really possible in the actual plot.

I do like Jess, I do have a great impression from her. and Spoiler.

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[BuckyOHare]

Can you try writing out an argument that doesn't try to insult and denigrate someone's argument by calling them an "Incel"?

Not really, no. If people are so bloody insecure in their masculinity they can't handle mutually agreed upon loving relationships that include more than two people, that's fine. But then fucking play another game, don't whinge and whine and make the author alter something that they've already established (and which made complete sense for both the characters and the story) just because it somehow makes someone feel like less of a god king or whatever.

And when it comes to people who see NTR in things, Is it not the person who feels they are being cheated on and not the one doing the act? (This is more so just asking for clarifications because I have seen conflicting definitions when it comes to netorare though I just generally think it has to do with cheating.)

Not getting into that discussion. I don't claim to understand what everyone thinks is and isn't NTR, every time I hear an explanation it's different.
I don't enjoy being cheated on. If there is consent and understanding among all parties, nobody is cheating and I personally no longer have issues.

Not that I want to watch another guy with one of the LI's, mind. But everyone has a past, everyone has history, and everyone has needs.

My main objection here is to people being such cry-babies that they make the author change the game. Which yes, sorry, that makes me act emotional because it is so insanely annoying.

 

[Maxxxed69]

Not really, no. If people are so bloody insecure in their masculinity they can't handle mutually agreed upon loving relationships that include more than two people, that's fine. But then fucking play another game, don't whinge and whine and make the author alter something that they've already established (and which made complete sense for both the characters and the story) just because it somehow makes someone feel like less of a god king or whatever.

I'm sorry you feel required to use insults to get a point across, I just hope you are aware there are more honest ways of getting a point across...

Not getting into that discussion. I don't claim to understand what everyone thinks is and isn't NTR, every time I hear an explanation it's different.
I don't enjoy being cheated on. If there is consent and understanding among all parties, nobody is cheating and I personally no longer have issues.

Not that I want to watch another guy with one of the LI's, mind. But everyone has a past, everyone has history, and everyone has needs.

My main objection here is to people being such cry-babies that they make the author change the game. Which yes, sorry, that makes me act emotional because it is so insanely annoying.

I'm sorry if I ever implied you were acting emotional, I never intended for it to come across that way.

 

[MrLKX]

I struggle to phrase this. While I don't think Ab's is completely aware, even after getting through the most recent update. I do have a feeling she might be catching onto us. i.e.

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I would love to see that, I would've fallen to the floor laughing.

I do like Jess, I do have a great impression from her. and Spoiler.

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The introduction of teen Jess, her dynamic with Frank, everything makes her seem very likeable. Generally I think she's someone who's done Frank a lot of good, she's always pushed him a little bit out of his own comfort zone, but always with a gentle manner, which I think is a good thing for an introvert.

I can well imagine that

she would forgive Frank for his marriage to Shannon. Also, Shannon's girls needed Frank like she needed him back then almost 20 years ago, especially Lilith. She would definitely remark something along those lines.
She would find it extremely funny that he's involved with both daughters now. She would probably call it an upgrade.
she would call Frank a Disney princess because of the whole Beth and Vanessa thing. With a joking elbow jab to the side and a wink.

And in the what if scenario, you have to eventually provide a reason why Becca and Lilly end up with Frank and Jess, one could then establish Becca as the daughter (since this storyline isn't canon and she wouldn't start a relationship with Frank and she'd never have a reason to break up Frank and Jess) she'd probably say something like “At least now we know why she moved away back then. Of course she and her little sister are going to live with us, “Daddy” *wink*”

And I agree on the spoiler.

 

[Steve70]

Is it actually coercion?

That is the question that must constantly be asked. And because human interaction is complicated, the answer is often nebulous. A person may desire something while also having strong reasons to suppress that desire. The balancing of conflicting wants, needs, and self-imposed limitations is what constitutes our moral behavior, and the choices we make are only rarely clearly defined. That fact is what makes our ability to choose freely, without coercion, so important. If we are pressured into making a choice, to what extent is that choice truly ours?

What does all of that have to do with this game (or any other)? The question and its answer are central to the plot of this story. If the dev has not thought about this subject and how it is being explored in this fiction, it will be to the detriment of the end-product.

 

[Maxxxed69]

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I never even thought about that, in that way.

That would make a lot more sense than what I was thinking.

 

[cxx]

I never even thought about that, in that way.

That would make a lot more sense than what I was thinking.

she's grown up and wants daddy's attention.

 

[Maxxxed69]

Has anybody seen the 1.23 dance credits?

 

[BuckyOHare]

I'm sorry you feel required to use insults to get a point across, I just hope you are aware there are more honest ways of getting a point across...

I'm sorry if I ever implied you were acting emotional, I never intended for it to come across that way.

Oh I didn't mean to imply that you were implying I'm being emotional. I know I am.

It just really, really irks me that people can't just enjoy the games they enjoy and leave the rest alone. And if they don't like the direction a game is going, there are new updates to all sorts of games added here every day, not like everyone needs to cater to the loudest people in the room.

Also, regarding the insulting language, if you can't see beyond the tone I'm using to the point I'm making, you can choose whether to blame me, or your reading comprehension. I'm done trying to explain myself to you.

 

[Maxxxed69]

Also, regarding the insulting language, if you can't see beyond the tone I'm using to the point I'm making, you can choose whether to blame me, or your reading comprehension. I'm done trying to explain myself to you.

Trying to cast doubt on someone's character, or their attributes to try to undermine someone's argument tends to make any argument trying to be made dead on arrival.