NewTricks

Forum Fanatic
Nov 1, 2017
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Jesus Christ Dev, enough with moral conflict already. I get that you're going for a sense of realism but the MC's resistance to... everything is going beyond tedious now, it's just straight up annoying. I've probably cut out more than half the play time on this game by just button mashing through the endless internal dialogue. It doesn't add anything anymore, it's just empty text because we've read it all before, it's been rationalized and explain over and over through the dreams and straight up conversations with Becca.

I don't mind slow burn games, not at all, but for over two years now, we've had to sit through. "Oh but she's my daughter...except she's not, but she is, but shes not" Like dude, you've already stuck your dick in two of them, plus a side piece. Just get on with it and stop whinging all the time, you fucking loser. You're literally living the dream and all you do whine about how wrong and unfair it all is. I'm not a fan of femdom at all, but this MC deserves to be collared and leashed since he can't make a decent decision to save his own life.

Don't get me wrong, I can understand setting up boundaries. Which is something that will probably have to be addressed in a better way in this game. The MC has told Becca on multiple occasions that he doesn't want her playing puppet master and pulling everyone's strings, and she kind of just tells him what he wants to hear and then just carries on. Though given the way the MC is, who can blame her since he has to be dragged kicking and screaming to bed with a beautiful woman who adores him. Can't really blame his wife for cheating on him anymore, since he needs to have an ethical debate with his subconscious over whether or not it's okay for him to take off his pants.


TLDR; This game could be hugely improved if we couldn't hear the MC's internal dialogue... By a considerable margin.
This is hardly an unpopular opinion. Francis is infamously interminable and insufferable in equal measure. Deep down, we all kinda understand why his wife cheated on him. We all hope that he handles his reservations and anxieties differently in the future because his internal monologue strains credulity at this point.
 

Cartageno

Devoted Member
Dec 1, 2019
8,766
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This is hardly an unpopular opinion. Francis is infamously interminable and insufferable in equal measure. Deep down, we all kinda understand why his wife cheated on him. We all hope that he handles his reservations and anxieties differently in the future because his internal monologue strains credulity at this point.
Well, "we all" is certainly an exaggeration. While I will agree on the "too much" part and especially some inconsistencies bordering on hypocrisy, I will still defend the general approach as a welcome change of pace to the usual "I will fuck every girl and not think about tomorrow - or think at all" approach most incest games choose. Because even while this is a fantasy and everybody is free to want to be free of consequences of their decisions, more power to you if you do, I appreciate a nod to the fact that there is more to it than just legal consequences or similar if you actually consider the scenario. And judging by past discussions, I am not entirely alone in this.

I have some other minor beef with this story as well, which is unrelated, and I have some "manning up" aspects as well - but "he already fucked two so the third ain't a big deal" ain't one of them.
 

Hellster

Engaged Member
May 18, 2019
2,264
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Well, "we all" is certainly an exaggeration. While I will agree on the "too much" part and especially some inconsistencies bordering on hypocrisy, I will still defend the general approach as a welcome change of pace to the usual "I will fuck every girl and not think about tomorrow - or think at all" approach most incest games choose. Because even while this is a fantasy and everybody is free to want to be free of consequences of their decisions, more power to you if you do, I appreciate a nod to the fact that there is more to it than just legal consequences or similar if you actually consider the scenario. And judging by past discussions, I am not entirely alone in this.

I have some other minor beef with this story as well, which is unrelated, and I have some "manning up" aspects as well - but "he already fucked two so the third ain't a big deal" ain't one of them.
Yeah the internal monolgue has calmed down quite a bit compared to what it was like earlier in the game
 

mrdhrrflu

Member
Dec 15, 2021
139
275
Well, "we all" is certainly an exaggeration. While I will agree on the "too much" part and especially some inconsistencies bordering on hypocrisy, I will still defend the general approach as a welcome change of pace to the usual "I will fuck every girl and not think about tomorrow - or think at all" approach most incest games choose. Because even while this is a fantasy and everybody is free to want to be free of consequences of their decisions, more power to you if you do, I appreciate a nod to the fact that there is more to it than just legal consequences or similar if you actually consider the scenario. And judging by past discussions, I am not entirely alone in this.

I have some other minor beef with this story as well, which is unrelated, and I have some "manning up" aspects as well - but "he already fucked two so the third ain't a big deal" ain't one of them.
What I think most of the people is trying to say, and i share the same opinion, it became too much repetitive to the point where you can skip through the MC's internal dialogue and you won't be missing anything. I feel it's not a matter anymore of trying to stay true to the MC's personality, of not being a man whore for example, and it's just swelling up content with a whole bunch of useless text.
 

riichidesu

Member
Sep 25, 2021
114
253
Well, "we all" is certainly an exaggeration. While I will agree on the "too much" part and especially some inconsistencies bordering on hypocrisy, I will still defend the general approach as a welcome change of pace to the usual "I will fuck every girl and not think about tomorrow - or think at all" approach most incest games choose. Because even while this is a fantasy and everybody is free to want to be free of consequences of their decisions, more power to you if you do, I appreciate a nod to the fact that there is more to it than just legal consequences or similar if you actually consider the scenario. And judging by past discussions, I am not entirely alone in this.

I have some other minor beef with this story as well, which is unrelated, and I have some "manning up" aspects as well - but "he already fucked two so the third ain't a big deal" ain't one of them.
Totally agree, sure it Fran can be annoying in his monologuen but is 100% understandable, with Becca and Lily he can accept taking the big step with some mind gymnastics like Becca is more his bestfriend that a daughter, Lily always hate him and with this he can mend bridges and recover the missing time, but not with Abby, he has been with Abby all his life, he was there when she was born, she his her daughter, the last memory of her wife so is understandable not wanting to jump a the first chance to fuck her.

And is not like he is a prude, he certainly don't have problems(or at least the monologuen in those instances is almost nonexistent) with one night stands like the disco girl, or the model or fucking Beth, he only have problems seeing his daughters as potencial partners with again is 100% understandable
 

testo2

Newbie
May 5, 2018
29
255
Well, "we all" is certainly an exaggeration. While I will agree on the "too much" part and especially some inconsistencies bordering on hypocrisy, I will still defend the general approach as a welcome change of pace to the usual "I will fuck every girl and not think about tomorrow - or think at all" approach most incest games choose. Because even while this is a fantasy and everybody is free to want to be free of consequences of their decisions, more power to you if you do, I appreciate a nod to the fact that there is more to it than just legal consequences or similar if you actually consider the scenario. And judging by past discussions, I am not entirely alone in this.

I have some other minor beef with this story as well, which is unrelated, and I have some "manning up" aspects as well - but "he already fucked two so the third ain't a big deal" ain't one of them.
I, too, welcome a change of pace and putting more thought into the consequences of actions. My problem with MC/the story is, that he does, in fact, NOT think. Or, more accurately, he's driving useless circles in his mind for weeks. He's not getting anywhere, he's not making any decision and holding to that, he's just floating around while feeling bad about it. The point where he should have made a decision is long in the past. By now, he should have made a fucking plan; that there will still be doubts and awkward moments would be understandable and realistic in my opinion, but his complete indecisiveness makes it impossible for me to like him.
 

PrimeGuy

Active Member
Dec 16, 2019
584
1,132
I'm pretty happy with Frank as is, so far. His mental spirals seem appropriate for a man fighting what he's believed is right his whole life, and trying to reconcile promises he made to his dead wife, considering what he thinks she'd want, and the very real dangers of potentially being caught. It's been a whirlwind couple of weeks where his whole universe has been turned upside down. He's making progress. The kind of ingrained conditioning he's fighting isn't that easy to overcome.

If you don't like it, that's a completely valid opinion - maybe you don't like the struggle, maybe you just want the lewds, maybe you want the MC to be the kind of person who doesn't care what society thinks, and never thought there was anything wrong with what's happening in the game now in the first place. Uncomplicated and straight forward. Valid want.

However, it's pretty clear at this point that that's not the game the Dev is making. I think it's unreasonable to expect the Dev to shift gears suddenly with Frank, given how things have been progressing so far. I'm personally looking forward to the whole ride, because I think at the end of it, he'll be broken of the societal conditioning, and the debauchery that ensues will be that much more satisfying for the journey it took to get there. Again, my opinion and preference.
 

Son of Durin

Engaged Member
Jul 5, 2021
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I'm pretty happy with Frank as is, so far. His mental spirals seem appropriate for a man fighting what he's believed is right his whole life, and trying to reconcile promises he made to his dead wife, considering what he thinks she'd want, and the very real dangers of potentially being caught. It's been a whirlwind couple of weeks where his whole universe has been turned upside down. He's making progress. The kind of ingrained conditioning he's fighting isn't that easy to overcome.

If you don't like it, that's a completely valid opinion - maybe you don't like the struggle, maybe you just want the lewds, maybe you want the MC to be the kind of person who doesn't care what society thinks, and never thought there was anything wrong with what's happening in the game now in the first place. Uncomplicated and straight forward. Valid want.

However, it's pretty clear at this point that that's not the game the Dev is making. I think it's unreasonable to expect the Dev to shift gears suddenly with Frank, given how things have been progressing so far. I'm personally looking forward to the whole ride, because I think at the end of it, he'll be broken of the societal conditioning, and the debauchery that ensues will be that much more satisfying for the journey it took to get there. Again, my opinion and preference.
Well said.

I look at Frank having the struggles a normal, decent, generally moral person would have, but so many commenters seem to want to abandon all morality and humanity in a game and just bang everyone without conscience or concern. I'm sure there are games that are just that if they want to seek them out (23 Sisters, for example); but this isn't one of them, so don't try to bitch and moan and expect CNG to accede to your puerile desires in his game.
 

NewTricks

Forum Fanatic
Nov 1, 2017
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Well said.

I look at Frank having the struggles a normal, decent, generally moral person would have, but so many commenters seem to want to abandon all morality and humanity in a game and just bang everyone without conscience or concern. I'm sure there are games that are just that if they want to seek them out (23 Sisters, for example); but this isn't one of them, so don't try to bitch and moan and expect CNG to accede to your puerile desires in his game.
Yeah! How dare we have a prurient interest in a pornographic game where you actually, by design, are given no options except to either fuck your daughters or have a game-over screen for trying too hard to fuck your daughters?
 
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UncleFredo

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2020
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This is hardly an unpopular opinion. Francis is infamously interminable and insufferable in equal measure. Deep down, we all kinda understand why his wife cheated on him. We all hope that he handles his reservations and anxieties differently in the future because his internal monologue strains credulity at this point.
Think about with whom she chose to cheat on him. His wife cheated on him because she's a lying cheating cunt. No more no less, and there is no "kinda" about it. Zero excuses for her behavior.
 

NewTricks

Forum Fanatic
Nov 1, 2017
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Think about with whom she chose to cheat on him. His wife cheated on him because she's a lying cheating cunt. No more no less, and there is no "kinda" about it. Zero excuses for her behavior.
Ah, I didn't say excuse I said understand. You know, like that thing you do in your brain to figure out why A is followed by B? Like you would understand why those passengers in "Airplane" kept committing suicide when they sat down next to Ted Striker and he started telling his life story. You aren't condoning suicide. You just understood why they did it.
 

mrdhrrflu

Member
Dec 15, 2021
139
275
Well said.

I look at Frank having the struggles a normal, decent, generally moral person would have, but so many commenters seem to want to abandon all morality and humanity in a game and just bang everyone without conscience or concern. I'm sure there are games that are just that if they want to seek them out (23 Sisters, for example); but this isn't one of them, so don't try to bitch and moan and expect CNG to accede to your puerile desires in his game.
I think you are forgetting that's a game it's not real, and it's an adult game. I don't play these games trying to live some fantasy through the MC, it's made for entertainment. It would be better if the players have control over the MC through the choices we make and those choices would set you up in different paths and also would shape the MC's personality.
Also it shouldn't be a problem when fans of the game have a healthy discussion, without the need to insult each other, on their opinion, I think that's what the thread is for. So it's not bitching, and it's very easy for you to say it when you are behind your screen, when fans are discussing about suggestions on how they think it would improve the game.
 

PrimeGuy

Active Member
Dec 16, 2019
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I think you are forgetting that's a game it's not real, and it's an adult game. I don't play these games trying to live some fantasy through the MC, it's made for entertainment. It would be better if the players have control over the MC through the choices we make and those choices would set you up in different paths and also would shape the MC's personality.
Also it shouldn't be a problem when fans of the game have a healthy discussion, without the need to insult each other, on their opinion, I think that's what the thread is for. So it's not bitching, and it's very easy for you to say it when you are behind your screen, when fans are discussing about suggestions on how they think it would improve the game.
I know the above wasn't directed at me, but I still felt the need to respond - not to the admonishment of people who try to stifle discussion part, but to the changes you suggest in the game.

I very much agree that a civil discussion about opinions is welcome, even if yours is different from mine. You're very much entitled to feel how you'd like about the game, or how it could be improved.

There are a lot of people who find their entertainment in these kinds of games from the very thing you say you do not, however: fantasizing that they are, themselves, the main character. I believe that for these people, and for the people who are enjoying the journey Frank has been on so far, that they would find it very jarring to have him suddenly become okay with everything. I know I would, and it would significantly diminish my enjoyment of the game. I also believe it would be a ton of work to change the game, with everything that's happened up to this point, into what you describe, as for it to feel coherent, it would need to be reworked from the beginning. Additionally coding things that way does require more scenes, for different pathways and such - which would mean less content each update, or slower updates, and so forth.

For these reasons, I don't believe the game would be best served by doing as you suggest. However, that's the opinion of someone who is enjoying the game as it is, so take it as you will.
 

Son of Durin

Engaged Member
Jul 5, 2021
3,686
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I think you are forgetting that's a game it's not real, and it's an adult game. I don't play these games trying to live some fantasy through the MC, it's made for entertainment. It would be better if the players have control over the MC through the choices we make and those choices would set you up in different paths and also would shape the MC's personality.
Also it shouldn't be a problem when fans of the game have a healthy discussion, without the need to insult each other, on their opinion, I think that's what the thread is for. So it's not bitching, and it's very easy for you to say it when you are behind your screen, when fans are discussing about suggestions on how they think it would improve the game.
You've missed the point that this topic has been beaten to death over and again. Of the nearly 360 pages, you'll probably find 75-100 pages worth of morons kvetching that they don't like Frank's internal monologue, not just once, but some of the same people time and again. Those internal monologues are realistic, but I think the biggest issue isn't that they occur, but something which would last only a second or two in reality, probably takes people a minute or so to process in the game, and they don't like it. Well, tough. As for people going "get over it already", in game time it's only been a few weeks - is that really time for a human being to completely turn around their entire life perspective? Unlikely.

And while you may have the opinion that making changes based on what a few people say would "improve the game", there seem to be more people that don't think those changes would improve the game, and, obviously, CNG doesn't think it will improve the game. Since it's his game and he has plenty of people supporting him as is, why should he change for a few squeaky wheels?

As you also note, it's a fantasy game, yes; but a little taste of reality in the game makes it more enjoyable than "Abby walks in, Frank says he can't resist anymore, rips here clothes off and puts a baby in her, all without dialogue, only with squeals and moans."

If that's what you want, watch 70s porn.
 
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mrdhrrflu

Member
Dec 15, 2021
139
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I know the above wasn't directed at me, but I still felt the need to respond - not to the admonishment of people who try to stifle discussion part, but to the changes you suggest in the game.

I very much agree that a civil discussion about opinions is welcome, even if yours is different from mine. You're very much entitled to feel how you'd like about the game, or how it could be improved.

There are a lot of people who find their entertainment in these kinds of games from the very thing you say you do not, however: fantasizing that they are, themselves, the main character. I believe that for these people, and for the people who are enjoying the journey Frank has been on so far, that they would find it very jarring to have him suddenly become okay with everything. I know I would, and it would significantly diminish my enjoyment of the game. I also believe it would be a ton of work to change the game, with everything that's happened up to this point, into what you describe, as for it to feel coherent, it would need to be reworked from the beginning. Additionally coding things that way does require more scenes, for different pathways and such - which would mean less content each update, or slower updates, and so forth.

For these reasons, I don't believe the game would be best served by doing as you suggest. However, that's the opinion of someone who is enjoying the game as it is, so take it as you will.
What bothers me the most about the MC is that he's not seeing as a person of authority by the same people he call daughters, whatever he says they take it as mild suggestions. He takes such a submissive role as he's afraid of the tiny girl, I'm talking about Lilith, as to the point that he's fine with her assaulting him...
I agree with you at this point of the game that's no going back. Reboot, redone, rewrite we all know how those games end, or don't end.
 

mrdhrrflu

Member
Dec 15, 2021
139
275
You've missed the point that this topic has been beaten to death over and again. Of the nearly 360 pages, you'll probably find 75-100 pages worth of morons kvetching that they don't like Frank's internal monologue, not just once, but some of the same people time and again. Those internal monologues are realistic, but I think the biggest issue isn't that they occur, but something which would last only a second or two in reality, probably takes people a minute or so to process in the game, and they don't like it. Well, tough. As for people going "get over it already", in game time it's only been a few weeks - is that really time for a human being to completely turn around their entire life perspective? Unlikely.

And while you may have the opinion that making changes based on what a few people say would "improve the game", there seem to be more people that don't think those changes would improve the game, and, obviously, CNG doesn't think it will improve the game. Since it's his game and he has plenty of people supporting him as is, why should he change for a few squeaky wheels?

As you also note, it's a fantasy game, yes; but a little taste of reality in the game makes it more enjoyable than "Abby walks in, Frank says he can't resist anymore, rips here clothes off and puts a baby in her, all without dialogue, only with squeals and moans."

If that's what you want, watch 70s porn.
If you can't understand that people download and start playing the game at a different time, it seems to me that the biggest moron here is you, it's a very simple concept to understand.
If that bothers you so much that we are discussing about it you should just mind your own business and move on, as I recall your opinion was never requested.
Ps. I do support the dev here and on Patreon. I don't see a problem on expressing my opinion without the need to be disrespectful towards other people that disagree with it, it's a product that I'm paying for.
 
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PrimeGuy

Active Member
Dec 16, 2019
584
1,132
What bothers me the most about the MC is that he's not seeing as a person of authority by the same people he call daughters, whatever he says they take it as mild suggestions. He takes such a submissive role as he's afraid of the tiny girl, I'm talking about Lilith, as to the point that he's fine with her assaulting him...
I agree with you at this point of the game that's no going back. Reboot, redone, rewrite we all know how those games end, or don't end.
I don't think he is submissive, and I also don't think forgiving someone for something means you're okay with them having done it. His treatment of Lillith in general is about empathy for her emotional damage. She's the most fragile of the 3 girls, and so she takes the greatest care in handling.

His relationships with the other two are very complicated, and have some elements of submission. For example - he has to follow Rebecca's plan to give Lillith and Rebecca what they want. However, he isn't entirely submissive to her, because she ultimately wants to be submissive to him. He also does not simply do whatever she asks. He negotiates. Subs don't negotiate. There's a lot of room between being dominant in a relationship and being submissive. His relationship with Abby is complex too - there are a lot of situations where she'll do what he says simply because of his authority as her father. However, there are the "rules" she makes, based on the fact that she owns the apartment they live in. These, I believe, he allows because they give him an excuse to give her what she wants, and what, deep down he wants too. He isn't really helpless in the face of these "rules" and deep down he knows it - but he doesn't want to confront that fact, because to do so, he'd have to confront the fact that he wants Abby to seduce him.

Again, I in no way feel you have to like how Frank is, or the direction the game is going, but I very much disagree about him being submissive.
 

mrdhrrflu

Member
Dec 15, 2021
139
275
Your perspective really is interesting, although I don't completely agree, he's not a complete sub. True. But he has strong elements of one, what he's definitely not is an Alpha. And I'm not saying that as a bad thing that's just the personality of the character in this novel.
As for Lilith, I don't know if you'd agree, but she is a girl that's screaming for an authoritative figure to give her some guidance and love as she never got it from her mother.
I do like where the direction of the game is going, and yes the MC is not my favorite character in this story I don't think he's as complex as other characters, he's very simple and predictable. I do very much like this game, I'm invested in it and not just by have this amazing discussion by being able to point out different points of view of the same story, which proves how good it is, I also support the Dev on Patreon.
 

MrLKX

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2021
1,659
2,680
The fact that Lilli never really received affection or love from her mother is not even the core problem in her development but only a side effect of another problem that happened in the past: Lilli was a total daddy's girl and that he left at some point broke her heart.

The fact that she never got any help from her mother, be it in the form of affection or psychological care, will have several causes: Her mother is not a particularly empathetic person and holds on to her resentment more strongly than a tick holds on to an animal that it has bitten into.

In addition, there will be other factors, such as the social stigmatization of psychotherapy ("What will people say when they hear that my child is in psychotherapy?", "What's wrong with you?", "In my day, we had to march through three feet of snow every day, without shoes, and fend off bears only with our bare fists, and that was just summer."). So don't be such a sissy!") and the fact that her mother, because of her own history (young mother, graduated from high school with a child, single parent for a long time, more or less), does not have the ability to put herself in her daughter's shoes.

All of this leads to Lilli's terrible dating history, in which it was primarily, if unconsciously, more about compensating for the lack of affection and love that Lilli always wanted from her father, in sexual relationships with random guys.
 

Cartageno

Devoted Member
Dec 1, 2019
8,766
14,874
In my day, we had to march through three feet of snow every day, without shoes, and fend off bears only with our bare fists, and that was just summer. So don't be such a sissy!
Ah, you're lucky you had fists. We didn't even get fists to fend off the bears until we were 18. Also every way was uphill against the storm.
 
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