VN Ren'Py Single Again [v1.25.02] [Clever name games]

[FuhQ6969]

I don't even understand, like morally everything is ok, what the fuck is his problem???

As I said before MC is just being a pussy, I guess I'm not alone in that opinion. Morals are overrated anyway and just a matter of (popular) opinion and he needs to get over it and fuck them already. I'd estimate I've ctrl-skipped 60-70% of the dialog just from his repetitive whining and protesting, which seems worse than him being gay with everyone trying to convert him.

 

[Trikus]

Frank is too stuck on familiarity and age. Meiko is not my favorite character but she is perfect in the sense she is pure virgin. He can teach her to be the type of woman he wants and that would be what she would want. But Frank Frank Frank he will try to be overly moral and over think it than see the benefit.

Frank is teaching Meiko though. This is why you don't skip dialogue. He is just going at a pace that is good for both of them.

I don't even understand, like morally everything is ok, what the fuck is his problem???

Frank isn't a depraved piece of shit that thinks with his penis and views women as walking Fleshlights. I know this is a problem for some of the guys that think they are god's gift to sex or something. Frank actually care about these women. He has no problem with casual sex though. He has had a few one night stands over the course of the game. He just treats the women he cares for differently.

 

[Lynava]

Frank isn't a depraved piece of shit that thinks with his penis and views women as walking Fleshlights. I know this is a problem for some of the guys that think they are god's gift to sex or something. Frank actually care about these women. He has no problem with casual sex though. He has had a few one night stands over the course of the game. He just treats the women he cares for differently.

what does sex have to do with it? I was writing about marriage

 

[Adhdclassic]

Frank is teaching Meiko though. This is why you don't skip dialogue. He is just going at a pace that is good for both of them.


Frank isn't a depraved piece of shit that thinks with his penis and views women as walking Fleshlights. I know this is a problem for some of the guys that think they are god's gift to sex or something. Frank actually care about these women. He has no problem with casual sex though. He has had a few one night stands over the course of the game. He just treats the women he cares for differently.

True but he still has that whole is it right to do this attitude. His attitude is should I shouldn't I. Even if he is doing it the dialogue shows it he is constantly wishywashy.

 

[MrLKX]

By the way, I can’t understand why MC is against marrying Meiko???

I don't know when it was, but if it was right at the beginning of the Meiko situation, then I think it was because Frank assumed that Meiko's parents were potentially arranging a marriage for her and that it wasn't voluntary in that sense.

What's interesting is that something similar actually happened in the past with Meiko and her parents, according to Meiko's biography, and it was the first time she pushed back against her parents.

 

[ArDZer]

I don't know when it was, but if it was right at the beginning of the Meiko situation, then I think it was because Frank assumed that Meiko's parents were potentially arranging a marriage for her and that it wasn't voluntary in that sense.

What's interesting is that something similar actually happened in the past with Meiko and her parents, according to Meiko's biography, and it was the first time she pushed back against her parents.

Meiko's parents wanted her to marry Bob, but she still had a crush on the protagonist from way back. That was revealed during a conversation between those two after Beth gave to him the new car. Not only she was "vocally angry" at the arranged marriage idea, she mentioned as well that she had a big fight with her mom and dad in said conversation with her now-boyfriend (and the time isn't specified but that might've happened last year in-game).

 

[MRMIdAS2k]

True but he still has that whole is it right to do this attitude. His attitude is should I shouldn't I. Even if he is doing it the dialogue shows it he is constantly wishywashy.

Yes, it's almost as if he has real feelings, and not pornbrain "Stick my cock in owt that moves, and some things that don't"

 

[BuckyOHare]

Lilith pisses me off so fucking much

I absolutely adore Lilith, for the same reason Veronica is my favorite girl in Man of the House. I'm a sucker for a good Tsundere getting some hard conversion therapy.

 

[Quetzzz]

Yes, it's almost as if he has real feelings, and not pornbrain "Stick my cock in owt that moves, and some things that don't"

Conflicted thoughts don't matter when the guy doesn't take any action. He lets Abby push and push instead of standing up for himself and what he believes. He feels uncomfortable but doesn't enforce boundaries until it's too late. The result is that Abby isn't taking no for an answer anymore, as seen in the latest content. She will do what she wants because the MC has taught her that he has no boundaries and can be convinced of anything. That his "no" doesn't mean "no", but that she just needs to push harder.

 

[MRMIdAS2k]

Conflicted thoughts don't matter when the guy doesn't take any action.

Yes, almost as if he's conflicted or something....

He lets Abby push and push instead of standing up for himself and what he believes.

He is, wait for it, CONFLICTED, he doesn't KNOW what he wants, THUS THE CONFLICT.

He feels uncomfortable but doesn't enforce boundaries until it's too late.

GUESS WHY NOT? IF YOU SAID "BECAUSE HE'S CONFLICTED" YOU WIN 200 POINTS!

Abby isn't taking no for an answer anymore, as seen in the latest content. She will do what she wants because the MC has taught her that he has no boundaries and can be convinced of anything.

Teenager in "testing boundaries" shocker, in other news, Fire indeed hot.

I'm starting to think you MAY have missed the subtleties in the script. Were you also surprised when Anakin fought Obi Wan at the end of Episode 3?

 

[JQuillon]

Yes, almost as if he's conflicted or something....


He is, wait for it, CONFLICTED, he doesn't KNOW what he wants, THUS THE CONFLICT.


GUESS WHY NOT? IF YOU SAID "BECAUSE HE'S CONFLICTED" YOU WIN 200 POINTS!


Teenager in "testing boundaries" shocker, in other news, Fire indeed hot.

I'm starting to think you MAY have missed the subtleties in the script. Were you also surprised when Anakin fought Obi Wan at the end of Episode 3?

I mean, to be fair, both Anakin and Obi Wan were conflicted at the time, too (and Quetzzz seems to have trouble spotting these). SA/SW crossover incoming?

 

[JJ1960]

I mean, to be fair, both Anakin and Obi Wan were conflicted at the time, too (and Quetzzz seems to have trouble spotting these). SA/SW crossover incoming?

Doesn't quite work for some reason.

 

[Quetzzz]

I'm starting to think you MAY have missed the subtleties in the script. Were you also surprised when Anakin fought Obi Wan at the end of Episode 3?

When a parent is conflicted about what's good for their child, do they allow that child to continue that behavior? This isn't about eating candy before bed.
A good parent will put a stop to that behavior until they have a chance to process things and only allow it to continue after they think the behavior is harmless. Frank says that he wants nothing more than to be a good parent and keep Abby safe and happy, but his inactions as her father don't show this. Him wanting Abby to be happy doesn't mean he has to give in to her every whim and demand, quite the opposite.

The conflict you're talking about mostly happens between his dick and his brain, rarely about Abby's behavior itself. He's parenting Lilith more than he does Abby. When he does consider his parenting style, others will say to keep doing what he's doing (nothing).

 

[MRMIdAS2k]

When a parent is conflicted about what's good for their child, do they allow that child to continue that behavior? This isn't about eating candy before bed.
A good parent will put a stop to that behavior until they have a chance to process things and only allow it to continue after they think the behavior is harmless. Frank says that he wants nothing more than to be a good parent and keep Abby safe and happy, but his inactions as her father don't show this. Him wanting Abby to be happy doesn't mean he has to give in to her every whim and demand, quite the opposite.

The conflict you're talking about mostly happens between his dick and his brain, rarely about Abby's behavior itself. He's parenting Lilith more than he does Abby. When he does consider his parenting style, others will say to keep doing what he's doing (nothing).

And thus the issue, He's not perfect, nobody is, but it'd be a pretty boring porn game if he had all his morals in-line now wouldn't it?

He can still have these moral quandries though, again, it's almost as if our hero is conflicted.

Also, Abby is a grown-ass woman and can behave how she wants in her own house.

 

[DaFinker]

And thus the issue, He's not perfect, nobody is, but it'd be a pretty boring porn game if he had all his morals in-line now wouldn't it?

He can still have these moral quandries though, again, it's almost as if our hero is conflicted.

Also, Abby is a grown-ass woman and can behave how she wants in her own house.

I've tried to point out something similar about Frank for years. The guys that complain consider having any scant bit of real human emotion in a VN a waste of time if it delays fucking a LI. A big part of the point I've tried to make is that we're only a few weeks to a month into it in "game time", even though it has been years in development time. Overcoming 19 years of raising a girl as your flesh and blood daughter (even though you knew the truth) in a month or less so you can go ahead and fuck her is something no real man and father could ever do. Even Lil and Becca are pretty accelerated from a real world perspective, but you have to have some action in a VN to build to the "ultimate" goal. The fact that he'll likely overcome his issue in less than two months of "in game" time is still heavily accelerated for any man that would have had real paternal feelings for a girl he knew from birth.

And now we wait for the inevitable screeds from people that can't fathom the concept of any kind of morality or ethics being applied within a VN.

 

[Quetzzz]

Teenager in "testing boundaries" shocker, in other news, Fire indeed hot.

Also, Abby is a grown-ass woman and can behave how she wants in her own house.

Which one is it?

You're right that something needs to give for the story to happen. I just don't think the way it's happening now is entertaining. Frank is conflicted about sleeping in the same bed, then he's conflicted about her underwear, then about her taking her bra off, then about her sleeping naked, then about seeing her buttplug in his face and her strap-on poking his leg...
Frank being a flawed character is fine, but flawed characters who keep doing the same thing are boring and dumb. The setup between Abby and Frank is very similar to Lockheart's APAT. The difference is that Petal knows what she wants and can convince the MC that she has grown into an adult who can make her own choices. Abby, at no point, gets that message across. How can Frank see her as the grown-ass woman who can behave how she wants in her own house when she behaves like a spoiled brat?
In Frank's shoes, if he's genuinely conflicted, how much stress is he now under just being near Abby with her aggressive approach?

 

[Quetzzz]

I've tried to point out something similar about Frank for years. The guys that complain consider having any scant bit of real human emotion in a VN a waste of time if it delays fucking a LI. A big part of the point I've tried to make is that we're only a few weeks to a month into it in "game time", even though it has been years in development time. Overcoming 19 years of raising a girl as your flesh and blood daughter (even though you knew the truth) in a month or less so you can go ahead and fuck her is something no real man and father could ever do. Even Lil and Becca are pretty accelerated from a real world perspective, but you have to have some action in a VN to build to the "ultimate" goal. The fact that he'll likely overcome his issue in less than two months of "in game" time is still heavily accelerated for any man that would have had real paternal feelings for a girl he knew from birth.

And now we wait for the inevitable screeds from people that can't fathom the concept of any kind of morality or ethics being applied within a VN.

I think it's funny that my original post is interpreted as me wanting Frank to already have fucked Abby. I never said that.
My criticism is about how Frank is portrayed, about how he's kept dumb and horny. I would've loved it if Frank had actually put his foot down and tried to parent Abby instead of constantly giving in, even if that delayed their intimacy even more.
If anything, I don't think we see enough of Frank's side of things. Worse, when we get a choice about his opinions, we are told by other characters that we're lying or wrong. What if, instead of going to a grave to ask for permission, Frank booked a hotel to get away from Abby for a while? He'd take some time to put his thoughts in order and decide on what he actually wants to do. No external pressure, no asking for permission, just Frank, for once, deciding things for himself.

For me, there's a severe lack of exploration about Frank's attraction. I think we can safely say that if Abby never pushed his boundaries, he'd never even think about doing anything intimate with her. If she came home with a boyfriend, he could've felt some kind of jealousy and concern, but he'd get over it.
Instead of this exploration of increasingly seeing Abby as a sexual creature instead of just a daughter, we only ever see Frank giving in. In a way, Abby is corrupting him. Her actions seduce him into acts and situations he wouldn't be in otherwise. This begs the question if Frank is just getting conditioned and will give Abby what she wants because losing her is too much to bear, or if he actually longs for her touch.

 

[DaFinker]

I think it's funny that my original post is interpreted as me wanting Frank to already have fucked Abby. I never said that.
My criticism is about how Frank is portrayed, about how he's kept dumb and horny. I would've loved it if Frank had actually put his foot down and tried to parent Abby instead of constantly giving in, even if that delayed their intimacy even more.
If anything, I don't think we see enough of Frank's side of things. Worse, when we get a choice about his opinions, we are told by other characters that we're lying or wrong. What if, instead of going to a grave to ask for permission, Frank booked a hotel to get away from Abby for a while? He'd take some time to put his thoughts in order and decide on what he actually wants to do. No external pressure, no asking for permission, just Frank, for once, deciding things for himself.

For me, there's a severe lack of exploration about Frank's attraction. I think we can safely say that if Abby never pushed his boundaries, he'd never even think about doing anything intimate with her. If she came home with a boyfriend, he could've felt some kind of jealousy and concern, but he'd get over it.
Instead of this exploration of increasingly seeing Abby as a sexual creature instead of just a daughter, we only ever see Frank giving in. In a way, Abby is corrupting him. Her actions seduce him into acts and situations he wouldn't be in otherwise. This begs the question if Frank is just getting conditioned and will give Abby what she wants because losing her is too much to bear, or if he actually longs for her touch.

Wasn't talking about you, as far as I know - just commenting on the very tiring and constant kvetching by so many people (often the same people again and again) about how long things are taking and Frank's inner dialogue. What is really amusing is the complete lack of self awareness by those making the same complaint again and again about Frank still having an inner dialogue and a conscience that comes back each time he's about to cross another threshold. Don't know whether you're in that group or not, but there are many that are - I have them on a list because I got tired of seeing them make the same comments all the time. They could simply walk away - nothing they say here will make a damn bit of difference - but apparently they either feel special or get some kind of release via what now boils down to mental masturbation on their part.

 

[doccop63]

Wasn't talking about you, as far as I know - just commenting on the very tiring and constant kvetching by so many people (often the same people again and again) about how long things are taking and Frank's inner dialogue. What is really amusing is the complete lack of self awareness by those making the same complaint again and again about Frank still having an inner dialogue and a conscience that comes back each time he's about to cross another threshold. Don't know whether you're in that group or not, but there are many that are - I have them on a list because I got tired of seeing them make the same comments all the time. They could simply walk away - nothing they say here will make a damn bit of difference - but apparently they either feel special or get some kind of release via what now boils down to mental masturbation on their part.

Just read a post in another game thread. That clown talked about the UI in the game, the characters on the title screen and other crap. Norhing constructive at all. He claims that he's deleting the game but I doubt it. He's the type that's entitled. He can't get people to listen to him either because he prattles on about Nothing or he's an inconsiderate douche bag (based on his comments, I'm going for the latter). He doesn't feel good about himself or his life so he comes into a public thread, dumps his ignorant crap in the comments, lies about dropping the game, all to gt his shit off of his chest, like someone really gaf. People like that need to just choke on their own tongues.

 

[Lynava]

What about people like me?
Those who like everything except Abby?