Can you and the dude wanting to "let it cook a little longer before I play" get together, and agree to split the difference?
First build (internal) was summer 2022, so... it'll be 3 1/2 years by the time the final release is out.
Unity Sinners Landing [v0.17.0e] [Flexible Media]
- Thread starter Droid Productions
- Start date
First build (internal) was summer 2022, so... it'll be 3 1/2 years by the time the final release is out.
Love that game. I can't wait to finish it in next update. I figure it will be about Dawn and her little hymen problem.
I also hope to see Xargoth's girl a last time before the ending.
Are you planning a second game "Sinner landing" ?
Just some minor bugs on Steam version : - The name of Ophelia that do not appear. We have -Oph- instead, that is sometimes strange in dialogues.
- The shades of the carpet of the new chamber, on Steam version.
I also hope to see Xargoth's girl a last time before the ending.
Are you planning a second game "Sinner landing" ?
Just some minor bugs on Steam version : - The name of Ophelia that do not appear. We have -Oph- instead, that is sometimes strange in dialogues.
- The shades of the carpet of the new chamber, on Steam version.
Droid, would it be very difficult to provide us with a list of which cards can we get from where and which repeatable activities give which stat increases?
And while we're here - what do the stats even give us?
Or is figuring it all out part of the game design?
And while we're here - what do the stats even give us?
Or is figuring it all out part of the game design?
SinnersLanding-0.16e
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There's a ton of stuff that needs to be better documented. I'll be sitting down to rewrite the combat tutorial, add a deck-builder tutorial and stuff over the next month.
As for "where are all the cards from"... that's a deep hole :| 250+ cards, and almost as many different ways of unlocking them.
MilesKiyaAnny
Well-Known Member
- Jan 18, 2019
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Yeah, that's what I suspected. Although, as usual you've surprised when it comes to magnitude.
Can we at least get a rough overlook on what the stats do? My Self Abuse strat is giving me so much mojo after stat increases my hand is constantly empty with mojo left over.
I can't do the dungeon exploration with Tyra quest. Went it once, died, and now regardless of what time of the day i try there is no option.
If you drop a quick save here I'll have a look. Called quick.sav and found here:
Savegame Paths:
Windows:
%USERPROFILE%/AppData/LocalLow/FlexibleMedia/Sinners Landing
OSX:
Saves: ~/Library/Application Support/FlexibleMedia/Sinners Landing
Log file: ~/Library/Logs/FlexibleMedia/Sinners Landing
Linux:
$XDG_CONFIG_HOME/unity3d/FlexibleMedia/Sinners Landing
SteamDeck:
/home/deck/.config/unity3d/FlexibleMedia/Sinners Landing
rainwake
Member
- Jun 8, 2019
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- 367
Feedback from playing most of the content from v0.16h
Pros:
+ Cards are much better now than they were from v0.8. There are now 0 cost cards (which were definitely needed)
+ Story writing has gotten better for the newer quests. But there's never going to be any tension, because of your "chosen one" status. Not only do you conveniently find what you need without proper leads, but when you can afford to throw caution to the wind & not be punished, that's when the story makes it too obvious that you are protected by plot armor. In my opinion, this was the biggest problem with Love of Magic.
Areas for Improvement:
- Cards are not accessible enough for a game where the main gameplay is a card game. In my opinion, this is the single biggest problem with the game, because the fun of a card game is from acquiring good cards, improving your deck and fighting opponents. The problem is that the main gameplay loop of fighting monsters in dungeons don't reward you with cards. Nor does it reward you with currency used for buying cards. In fact, there are no card shops. Nor do you get materials that you can use to craft cards. The only ways you get cards is by: smoking Fropweed (a dungeon drop, that yields a very limited pool of cards), one time quest drops, and some repeatable training events. It feels like the main way you get cards is by doing quests, but the reward is one time and unknown. EDIT: upon playing more and unlocking the tankard, and undergoing more training, there does seem to be a lot more cards than I initially thought. It just wasn't intuitive to me how to get cards. So I just kept doing quests and didn't find many cards that way. You can get quite a few good cards from hanging out with people. It would have been nice if the game hinted that Training, & offering people a drink from the tankard unlocks cards
- Certain stats don't have enough cards that scale with it. Crafting and Lore are the least useful because there are no cards for them. Stealth and Perception has cards, but they all suck (either because they don't do enough for it's cost, or the effect sucks). Magic, Charm, and Piety each have 1-2 cards that are good and the rest are lacking. Combat and Stamina are the two most useful stats in the game, only because there's a bigger card pool, and they have better cards. Meaning that they have more high value cards at a low cost.
- Most archetypes lack support cards to make it viable. This leads to not very much variety when it comes to deck building. It just doesn't feel like cards are designed with combos connected to a win condition in mind. (e.g. Purify it's a heal with no support cards).
- Quests where you have to take a character with you into a Dungeon are annoying. They are annoying because you are forced to run cards that don't fit well with your deck. Adding useless cards to clog up deck flow, in a game with basically no card draw causes runs to be heavily dictated by RNG. I don't know if this was by design to add difficulty, but it's certainly not enjoyable. It's like a card game's version of escort quests
- Gold (money) drop from dungeons is too low and too varied. Most runs yield 0 gold, some runs yield 80+ gold. Chests can drop 1 gold to 80+ gold, but most of the time it's 1-30 gold. So a lot the time, you have to sell Gold/Silver ingots and Potions to make the money needed for quests. I think as a minimum, chests should drop 20 Gold, and enemies should also drop gold.
- Blacksmith Training costs too much Ingots. Costing 10 Ingots for 1 session is insane. The rate of finding ingots from dungeons is 0-3 per run.
Pros:
+ Cards are much better now than they were from v0.8. There are now 0 cost cards (which were definitely needed)
+ Story writing has gotten better for the newer quests. But there's never going to be any tension, because of your "chosen one" status. Not only do you conveniently find what you need without proper leads, but when you can afford to throw caution to the wind & not be punished, that's when the story makes it too obvious that you are protected by plot armor. In my opinion, this was the biggest problem with Love of Magic.
Areas for Improvement:
- Cards are not accessible enough for a game where the main gameplay is a card game. In my opinion, this is the single biggest problem with the game, because the fun of a card game is from acquiring good cards, improving your deck and fighting opponents. The problem is that the main gameplay loop of fighting monsters in dungeons don't reward you with cards. Nor does it reward you with currency used for buying cards. In fact, there are no card shops. Nor do you get materials that you can use to craft cards. The only ways you get cards is by: smoking Fropweed (a dungeon drop, that yields a very limited pool of cards), one time quest drops, and some repeatable training events. It feels like the main way you get cards is by doing quests, but the reward is one time and unknown. EDIT: upon playing more and unlocking the tankard, and undergoing more training, there does seem to be a lot more cards than I initially thought. It just wasn't intuitive to me how to get cards. So I just kept doing quests and didn't find many cards that way. You can get quite a few good cards from hanging out with people. It would have been nice if the game hinted that Training, & offering people a drink from the tankard unlocks cards
- Certain stats don't have enough cards that scale with it. Crafting and Lore are the least useful because there are no cards for them. Stealth and Perception has cards, but they all suck (either because they don't do enough for it's cost, or the effect sucks). Magic, Charm, and Piety each have 1-2 cards that are good and the rest are lacking. Combat and Stamina are the two most useful stats in the game, only because there's a bigger card pool, and they have better cards. Meaning that they have more high value cards at a low cost.
- Most archetypes lack support cards to make it viable. This leads to not very much variety when it comes to deck building. It just doesn't feel like cards are designed with combos connected to a win condition in mind. (e.g. Purify it's a heal with no support cards).
<?> How do you design cards that support healing?
- card that draws you cards based on how much you healed this turn.
- Cards that do more dmg based on how much you healed this turn.
- Card that does more dmg based on total healing done throughout the battle.
- Card that doubles healing for 3 turns.
- Card that has 2 effects. A default unconditional effect. Effect 2 is conditional that gets enabled when you reach a certain threshold of healing. Like getting another turn if you've healed a total of 30 HP.
- Cards lack Keyword descriptions when viewing them in the deck builder. (e.g. Courage, Hardened, Predict, Rage, Weakness, Potency, Neglected, Debuff, Mojo). Some card effects generate cards, but you can't see what the generated cards do (Reckless Attack => Wound, Zap => Shocked, Double Throw => Throws). There are more effects, I'm including from temporary cards you can get from Dungeons
- Quests where you have to take a character with you into a Dungeon are annoying. They are annoying because you are forced to run cards that don't fit well with your deck. Adding useless cards to clog up deck flow, in a game with basically no card draw causes runs to be heavily dictated by RNG. I don't know if this was by design to add difficulty, but it's certainly not enjoyable. It's like a card game's version of escort quests
- Gold (money) drop from dungeons is too low and too varied. Most runs yield 0 gold, some runs yield 80+ gold. Chests can drop 1 gold to 80+ gold, but most of the time it's 1-30 gold. So a lot the time, you have to sell Gold/Silver ingots and Potions to make the money needed for quests. I think as a minimum, chests should drop 20 Gold, and enemies should also drop gold.
- Blacksmith Training costs too much Ingots. Costing 10 Ingots for 1 session is insane. The rate of finding ingots from dungeons is 0-3 per run.
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I'll take a look at the basic feedback later, it's 10pm on a saturday
I will say, I don't write for Flexible... I'm a producer and programmer there, but we have others who write (and I think that comes across quite clearly in the difference in the story for Flexible games vs my own hobbyist games, like Love of Magic and Morningstar).
Jack and Tristan also live far more charmed lives than MC in LoM or MS, who get stabbed, shot, beaten, burned to a crisp and incinerated in nuclear fire. Obviously for the story to work, you kinda have to survive the experience; you can put in a "you died, load save?" but it's just syntax sugar on the fact that the story needs MC to be alive to make sense.
As for the card combat, I worry that the majority of players aren't super into it, despite the hundreds of hours of work we put into it. Obviously we COULD spend MORE time and energy on it, but it seems a waste when 90% of users appear to press the "skip combat" button.
rainwake
Member
- Jun 8, 2019
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Of course characters have plot armor, but it's the perception that they don't that matters. That's controllable based on the decisions they make, situations the writer puts them in and how they navigate out of those problems.
I can't speak for most of your player base, but if you are making a card game and most of the players skip the card game, you have a big problem. I personally skip most mini-games and didn't know you could skip combat. I don't know if the problem has to do with the card game being too basic early on to catch the interest of card game enthusiasts, or if it's because most of the player base came from the other games & don't particularly like card games.
Never the less, since the card game is the main game play, I feel like the team will have to work on it
Or just because they're there for the porn, and the card game gets in the way
I know some people really liked the combat system in Love of Magic, and we do occasionally get feedback from people who love it in Sinners, but I wouldn't say we're making "a card game". We're making an RPG/AVN, where there's a card combat system. If we were making a card game, skipping combat wouldn't be an option
rainwake
Member
- Jun 8, 2019
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Well, if all they wanted was porn, then they could just visit pornhub (adult comic, or hentai site). I think people do appreciate fun gameplay & a good story to go along with the porn. Otherwise, why game in the first place?Or just because they're there for the porn, and the card game gets in the way
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Xantoser
Member
- Apr 28, 2020
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Well, this is the biggest mystery to me about this community. Many people seem to want just sex, but I don’t get why they don’t just go watch Pornhub.
For me, the most important thing is the writing - it should build context and tension before the sex scene.
As for deck building in SL, I think there are two aspects: the core and the meta layer.
The core is purely subjective (personally, I’d prefer turn-based combat instead of a deck builder) but the meta layer could definitely be much better. Dungeons could have fixed maps with rooms, corridors, levers, keys, monsters placed in specific locations, locked gates, traps, shortcuts and so on. A fixed dungeon would allow for a much more thoughtful design, and you could even add cool companion events as you progress. The current randomness with abstract three-line paths makes meaningful exploration impossible.
Each level or dungeon area could be gated by much stronger enemies that can one-shot you. That would force you to gain experience, collect items, and come back later to defeat them. Right now, with random enemies thrown at us, I don’t really feel much difference in difficulty. Random maps, random encounters… I don’t know, but it just doesn’t work for me. I don't feel progression and I don't have fun from exploration where I can check what is in that next big room hidden behind traps.
Another problem: in a traditional RPG, if you have a quest like “go find item X”, you go to location Y because you know enemies there drop that item. But in SL, with its randomness, you just keep clicking through encounters hoping the item finally shows up. I remember once I had to bring iron ingots to Pog (or Annya?). And damn, I couldn’t find a single ingot - so I just farmed whatever I could, sell it and bought the ingots from Annya when I was told to bring ignots from mines. It shouldn’t work like that.
I think these are the main problems - not the core gameplay itself. I would prefer turn-based combat, but if the meta layer of the game were interesting, I wouldn’t mind playing a deck builder.
I mostly play SL because of the writing but still....
And I agree with those two issues:
- Quests where you have to take a character with you into a Dungeon are annoying.
- Gold (money) drop from dungeons is too low and too varied.
If one could first preview the cards the companions offer and have multiple loadouts, the superfluous problems with companion quests would be fine.
The real issue is indeed choices not really mattering when it comes to dungeoneering. The seeds for a fun deck builder are here, it just needs dedicated hours of sitting down and designing the systems to be more than just existing. If it's all down to droid, he has already had a pretty good start for a solo flight. Don't forget the main focus has to be the porn game, that's why people are here and that's what pays the bills.
I'm not much of a card game player, but I never felt the companions mattered. There never was enough challenge involved that it mattered if they added some random cards to my deck or not.
... overall I just continue to feel like the game has a severe identity crisis. Is it supposed to be deep, intricate lore or just porn nonsense? Are there supposed to be complex characters with interesting backgrounds or just random porn dolls? Why are we playing a billion minigames ... when you can't ever fail and nothing is achieved by not just skipping them? But if you do want to do them, well, better not just, let's say, match 3 pairs or whatever, do it for 30 so you really suffer. You got all the stats, but the game would be 98% identical if they didn't exist at all ...
Well. Whatever. What I really wanted to say is that the "glow" effect in some minigames for me in this latest version made it really hard to see much at times (especially in those "puzzle stuff together" minigmaes); I feel that should be tuned down (unless it's only me getting flashbanged for some reason ^^).
... overall I just continue to feel like the game has a severe identity crisis. Is it supposed to be deep, intricate lore or just porn nonsense? Are there supposed to be complex characters with interesting backgrounds or just random porn dolls? Why are we playing a billion minigames ... when you can't ever fail and nothing is achieved by not just skipping them? But if you do want to do them, well, better not just, let's say, match 3 pairs or whatever, do it for 30 so you really suffer. You got all the stats, but the game would be 98% identical if they didn't exist at all ...
Well. Whatever. What I really wanted to say is that the "glow" effect in some minigames for me in this latest version made it really hard to see much at times (especially in those "puzzle stuff together" minigmaes); I feel that should be tuned down (unless it's only me getting flashbanged for some reason ^^).