VN Ren'Py Completed Snow Daze: The Music of Winter [v1.6] [Outbreak Games]

[Kakato]

So it seems like Bonus Day got cancelled, the sequel/spin-off (Tropical Daze) is on hold, and they are now remaking the original???

Okay lol wtf...

Until the Bone Marrow, Bro..... Hate me if you want, but Cypress Zeta is one of the most underrated MILKERS ever. Few pplz know that because he's kind of discreet, but trust me ; This man perfectly knows what he's doing.

 

[Futa_Buddy]

Until the Bone Marrow, Bro..... Hate me if you want, but Cypress Zeta is one of the most underrated MILKERS ever. Few pplz know that because he's some kind of discreet, but trust me ; This man perfectly knows what he's doing.

Yeah I'm starting to come to that realization myself, that being said that's cow gif is fantastic lol...

 

[jestertlw]

Calling a dev "milker" while you're gettin' the milk for free on a pirates site.

 

[TheInternetIsForThis]

Calling a dev "milker" while you're gettin' the milk for free on a pirates site.

A shitty dev does not stop being a shitty dev just because you pirated their work instead of paying. Not to mention you have no idea who is and is not subbed to the dev's patreon when just poking around this thread.

 

[Lupin the 3rd]

Until the Bone Marrow, Bro..... Hate me if you want, but Cypress Zeta is one of the most underrated MILKERS ever. Few pplz know that because he's kind of discreet, but trust me ; This man perfectly knows what he's doing.

The Dev remaking this Game is justified. They want to make a Sequel with new art (Tropical Daze). So of course the Developer remaking this Game so the Art in both games match. It would make no sence if the art stayed the exact same, but since the art in Tropical Daze will be different than the OG Snow Daze, a Remake doing first makes perfectly sence.

(And no, I don't defend anyone, the work flow is too slow, yes, I know. They should be faster. But since I saw that you hate this Remake Idea in general (like you said in Dreams of Desire Thread), at this aspect you are wrong. It's actually nice to see that a Dev tries to bring the Art into the new level the sequel is intended. )

As long the Dev don't make too much promise (*cough* Dreams of Desire Disapointment *cough*) and trys to overdrasticly change the whole art (*cough* Amity Park *cough*), it should be ok.

 

[Kakato]

The Dev remaking this Game is justified. They want to make a Sequel with new art (Tropical Daze). So of course the Developer remaking this Game so the Art in both games match. It would make no sence if the art stayed the exact same, but since the art in Tropical Daze will be different than the OG Snow Daze, a Remake doing first makes perfectly sence.

(And no, I don't defend anyone, the work flow is too slow, yes, I know. They should be faster. But since I saw that you hate this Remake Idea in general (like you said in Dreams of Desire Thread), at this aspect you are wrong. It's actually nice to see that a Dev tries to bring the Art into the new level the sequel is intended. )

As long the Dev don't make too much promise (*cough* Dreams of Desire Disapointment *cough*) and trys to overdrasticly change the whole art (*cough* Amity Park *cough*), it should be ok.

Justified ? My ass, man. Look well at the OP. This thread was created on August 2016. We are in 2021. 5 years later, he's still remaking and remixing a completed game. There's a limit for milking. If you are comparing Lewdlad to him, the former did only one remake. What about Cypress Zeta ? I lost count of the number of times he made modifications to his game. No, no and no. This isn't justified.

 

[Lupin the 3rd]

Justified ? My ass, man. Look well at the OP. This thread was created on August 2016. We are in 2021. 5 years later, he's still remaking and remixing a completed game. There's a limit for milking. If you are comparing Lewdlad to him, the former did only one remake. What about Cypress Zeta ? I lost count of the number of times he made modifications to his game. No, no and no. This isn't justified.

Read again, I didn't defend anyone. Yes, the work flow and how he has done it over the years is wrong and unforgivable. But you criticised the Remake as a whole, that it would be not necessary even though it is since Tropical Daze should come with the same Art.

Also you mixing some things up. Lewdlab just polish his Game a bit with a bit new content. Cypress Team wants to Remake the whole Game, they want to change everything in Art Style, make some tweakes in the Dialogue and so on.
Again, not defending anyone or pick a side, every side shows the pros and cons. But your argumentation is "Remake = Bullshit" type. It seems you despise the Idea of Remakes in general, at least for me. Like I said, criticising the Dev because of his peculiarity of doing the things he had done is more than ok and correct. But criticising the Remake Idea in general is upsetting.

Here another example with Amity Park, the Idea of Remaking it so it would have more quality and is updated to a new standard is good. But how the Team around G-Zone, Team Bieno, etc. has done it is awful. It doesn't seem like Danny Phantom anymore in the remaked scenes (*cough* the new Paulina for example *cough*). And that's the problem for Amity Park, Paulina is not recognizable anymore without her clothes, the new art is worse than the old, this Remake is bad. As a non parody Game (aka new game from this team), the art style would be good but since it breaks the parody aspect in Amity Park, it's not fitting.
Snow Daze will most likely remain recognizable since even though it has new art, the Characters seems clearly as they should. So why are you "hating" this Remake plan in general. Yes, you can be frustrated about Cypress work flow and how he has make his decisions on how to do it over the years and criticising it. But then to say things like "Remakes are bad and unnecessary" type of comments is a bit harsh.


So yes, remaking this Game is justified. Is it justified of how Cypress has done it over the years? Of course not, these were Bad decisions. These decisions are criticisable yes, but not the general idea of a Remake. How the Remake will be done over the years and when it turned out bad (*cough* Amity Park *cough*) then yes.

 

[Kakato]

Read again, I didn't defend anyone. Yes, the work flow and how he has done it over the years is wrong and unforgivable. But you criticised the Remake as a whole, that it would be not necessary even though it is since Tropical Daze should come with the same Art.

Also you mixing some things up. Lewdlab just polish his Game a bit with a bit new content. Cypress Team wants to Remake the whole Game, they want to change everything in Art Style, make some tweakes in the Dialogue and so on.
Again, not defending anyone or pick a side, every side shows the pros and cons. But your argumentation is "Remake = Bullshit" type. It seems you despise the Idea of Remakes in general, at least for me. Like I said, criticising the Dev because of his peculiarity of doing the things he had done is more than ok and correct. But criticising the Remake Idea in general is upsetting.

Here another example with Amity Park, the Idea of Remaking it so it would have more quality and is updated to a new standard is good. But how the Team around G-Zone, Team Bieno, etc. has done it is awful. It doesn't seem like Danny Phantom anymore in the remaked scenes (*cough* the new Paulina for example *cough*). And that's the problem for Amity Park, Paulina is not recognizable anymore without her clothes, the new art is worse than the old, this Remake is bad. As a non parody Game (aka new game from this team), the art style would be good but since it breaks the parody aspect in Amity Park, it's not fitting.
Snow Daze will most likely remain recognizable since even though it has new art, the Characters seems clearly as they should. So why are you "hating" this Remake plan in general. Yes, you can be frustrated about Cypress work flow and how he has make his decisions on how to do it over the years and criticising it. But then to say things like "Remakes are bad and unnecessary" type of comments is a bit harsh.


So yes, remaking this Game is justified. Is it justified of how Cypress has done it over the years? Of course not, these were Bad decisions. These decisions are criticisable yes, but not the general idea of a Remake. How the Remake will be done over the years and when it turned out bad (*cough* Amity Park *cough*) then yes.

Man, it's Friday today and I reallyyyyy don't have time to debate about a milker like Cypress Zeta. Think what you want and I'll keep on thinking what I want. Have a nice day. Peace out.

 

[Chaos_Gardian]

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Snow Daze Preview: New Scenes!
One of the reasons we decided to go with a remake was because there were scenes I had written we simply couldn't get the art for. Now that we have the art team at Critical Bliss working on the art, we can add extra scenes to the day. This is day one, giving you a special bonus for very good players.

The team starts out with sketches and composition, trying out different looks for the scene.


Posing Practice

Once a look is settled on, the artists then use dark horrible art magics to bring the characters to life.


Just Add Detail

Finally, the work is refined. I give it a final inspection before sending it off for color.


I'm blue da bo dee




While I'm not going to show off the color version of that scene yet, I'll give you an example of one that is. We've settled on a new, nice style that'll be consistent through everything. Every scene will be well done with new art added and extremely high quality throughout. I hope you enjoy the game when it's ready to come out! We're blazing right through!

 

[WOMANpukumaru]

“If I was green I would die”(I wonder how many people here would get that reference)

But I mean,

1 we’re nearing the end of the year and the only release we got was cg touch ups. Lol that’s still true and don’t let him obfuscate this.

2 that being said, I like the new content. It’s weird but that art of them all sitting on the couch in their underwear is the kinda stuff I wanted to see in the game. More casual every day situations would have been great. Part of the pros of living in a house full of thicc women

 

[sm_ddr4]

I believe the author is still working on this game.

It's now finished!!

 

[bloodaxis]

That new art is alright, but I like the old arts faces way more.

 

[SecretAgentClank]

It's now finished!!

Are you sure? 6 Days ago (Nov 02, 2021) they made a post about doing a remake and adding new scenes for Snow Daze now that they have a new art team.

I think they're going to call it 'Snow Daze Redaze' or something like that, which, according to their discord, does not have an ETA.

 

[androide]

I feel like they're just going to milk this game a lot. Months ago, maybe a year, they said they were going to redraw this and then do Summer Daze: Tropical Summer or whatever the sequel of this game would be called.

Now they're not going to redraw it (when the redraw was almost finished) but to remake it, and I bet in the next post they'll explain how the old/redraw art doesn't work or just isn't good enough.

 

[KingRei]

I feel like they're just going to milk this game a lot. Months ago, maybe a year, they said they were going to redraw this and then do Summer Daze: Tropical Summer or whatever the sequel of this game would be called.

Now they're not going to redraw it (when the redraw was almost finished) but to remake it, and I bet in the next post they'll explain how the old/redraw art doesn't work or just isn't good enough.

Why are half of the posts on this website just hysteria-fuelled nonsense about how everyone is out to scam us? Quality video games are supposed to have teams of dozens, if not hundreds, of people. These games are usually made by 1-5 people and thus it takes much longer to develop them. No grand conspiracy required.

 

[TheInternetIsForThis]

Why are half of the posts on this website just hysteria-fuelled nonsense about how everyone is out to scam us? Quality video games are supposed to have teams of dozens, if not hundreds, of people. These games are usually made by 1-5 people and thus it takes much longer to develop them. No grand conspiracy required.

There is a tiny difference between the work involved in creating a game like Metal Gear Solid V, and creating a game in Ren'Py. You know, just a smidge. I'm sure CypressZeta is also making thousands of 3D models, tens of thousands of textures, hundreds of sound effects and lines of dialogue, full-scope live 3D rendering in a modern engine, an entire world to explore with custom combat syste-wait, they're not? They're just making a few hundred static pieces of artwork, a few thousand words of text, and a few hundred lines of voice dialogue? Over the course of five years? Largely in the form of outsourced work while being more than sufficiently funded on Patreon and similar? Okay then.

Seriously dude, never do the AAA to indie comparison. It looks bad.

Edit: I was curious about exact numbers in a case where they could be counted, so I checked Skyrim. Including the DLC, Skyrim has 13,500 scripts, 81,323 sounds (that includes voice lines and sound effects, but not music), 42,052 meshes (that's 3d models), and 31,226 textures. That is just a few orders of magnitude above the assets you'd see in a Ren'Py game. Just a few.

 

[jestertlw]

There is a tiny difference between the work involved in creating a game like Metal Gear Solid V, and creating a game in Ren'Py. You know, just a smidge. I'm sure CypressZeta is also making thousands of 3D models, tens of thousands of textures, hundreds of sound effects and lines of dialogue, full-scope live 3D rendering in a modern engine, an entire world to explore with custom combat syste-wait, they're not? They're just making a few hundred static pieces of artwork, a few thousand words of text, and a few hundred lines of voice dialogue? Over the course of five years? Largely in the form of outsourced work while being more than sufficiently funded on Patreon and similar? Okay then.

Seriously dude, never do the AAA to indie comparison. It looks bad.

Edit: I was curious about exact numbers in a case where they could be counted, so I checked Skyrim. Including the DLC, Skyrim has 13,500 scripts, 81,323 sounds (that includes voice lines and sound effects, but not music), 42,052 meshes (that's 3d models), and 31,226 textures. That is just a few orders of magnitude above the assets you'd see in a Ren'Py game. Just a few.

I think you just made TheInternetIsForThis's point for them.

It seems that a lot of people on F95 are wanting from these single and small team RenPy, etc developers the same swiftness of updates and quality that they experience with games they play on Steam and other platforms. People complain about the length of time between updates, why some things look off in renders, they complain about the grammatical errors -- all the time forgetting that a lot of these games and VN here are done by 1 person (or a small team) as a side gig or hobby and not as a full-time, salaried occupation. In most cases, what funding many do get from supporters wouldn't even equal half the minimum wage (in USD) for the amount of time and effort they do put in, when also considering expenses associated with development.

 

[TheInternetIsForThis]

I think you just made TheInternetIsForThis's point for them.

It seems that a lot of people on F95 are wanting from these single and small team RenPy, etc developers the same swiftness of updates and quality that they experience with games they play on Steam and other platforms. People complain about the length of time between updates, why some things look off in renders, they complain about the grammatical errors -- all the time forgetting that a lot of these games and VN here are done by 1 person (or a small team) as a side gig or hobby and not as a full-time, salaried occupation. In most cases, what funding many do get from supporters wouldn't even equal half the minimum wage (in USD) for the amount of time and effort they do put in, when also considering expenses associated with development.

Not sure what you're trying to say here. I made my point for myself? My point was that it was a false comparison - CypressZeta has spent five years (including multiple broken timelines they've made) on this one game that was "finished" a while ago, and that they've now scrapped to start from scratch.

If this project were being made by a AAA-sized team, it would take a month or two tops, plus red tape. The actual assets could be pumped out by a AAA team in a week or two.

There is literally no comparison to be made, and so using said comparison as a counter to someone complaining about a developer milking a project is very disingenuous. Especially in this case - this game is officially complete. It's been officially complete for a while. The developer officially began work on a sequel a year ago, and has since gone radio silent on that sequel. The developer decided to add another day to the end of this complete game at about the same time, and started by redoing the artwork for the earlier days in said game. Then they scrapped that project, remained radio silent on the sequel, and began recreating their complete game, from the start. With a third party art team supplied by their publisher.

That is either the sign of a developer who is intentionally milking a project (hard to believe considering the general lack of long term income their patreon and subscribestar accounts have) or is very, very bad at planning and follow-through. I'm personally assuming the latter.

 

[KingRei]

There is a tiny difference between the work involved in creating a game like Metal Gear Solid V, and creating a game in Ren'Py. You know, just a smidge. I'm sure CypressZeta is also making thousands of 3D models, tens of thousands of textures, hundreds of sound effects and lines of dialogue, full-scope live 3D rendering in a modern engine, an entire world to explore with custom combat syste-wait, they're not? They're just making a few hundred static pieces of artwork, a few thousand words of text, and a few hundred lines of voice dialogue? Over the course of five years? Largely in the form of outsourced work while being more than sufficiently funded on Patreon and similar? Okay then.

Seriously dude, never do the AAA to indie comparison. It looks bad.

Edit: I was curious about exact numbers in a case where they could be counted, so I checked Skyrim. Including the DLC, Skyrim has 13,500 scripts, 81,323 sounds (that includes voice lines and sound effects, but not music), 42,052 meshes (that's 3d models), and 31,226 textures. That is just a few orders of magnitude above the assets you'd see in a Ren'Py game. Just a few.

This will always be the dumbest argument. If developing a Ren'py game of the same quality as Snow Daze is so easy, then you should make the sequel. It should be real simple for you, yes? I'm twice as tolerant as the average complainer here so instead of complaining about your lack of progress in 24 hours, I'll give you 48 hours. Make sure to give me a producer's credit for my generosity. Thanks.

 

[TheInternetIsForThis]

This will always be the dumbest argument. If developing a Ren'py game of the same quality as Snow Daze is so easy, then you should make the sequel. It should be real simple for you, yes? I'm twice as tolerant as the average complainer here so instead of complaining about your lack of progress in 24 hours, I'll give you 48 hours. Make sure to give me a producer's credit for my generosity. Thanks.

I didn't say it was easy, I said that you comparing it to a AAA team was a non-comparison. But clearly, you didn't bother actually reading my posts. If you're interpreting my comments about the difference in scale as a claim that a good visual novel is easy to develop, that's your own problem.