So, why the hate on NTR?

[Count Morado]

Roleplaying. The game introduces you to a female character, and you try to pretend that you're that character.

No no no no no. That's not it. No, you still insert into the male character - but the supporting male character who pines away for the female main character, at least - as it was put forth by some in the following thread: https://f95zone.to/threads/should-fmc-be-classified-as-netorare.25293

(Not my opinion... just being facetious while sharing a link).

If it's a Kink, then it's not a problem if you keep it to yourself?

I can see that. If they are keeping it to themselves, should the people who 'hate' the kink keep it to themselves as well?

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

I don't like seafood - at all. None. Zero. Zilch. I don't go into seafood restaurants. I don't even go into the seafood area of my grocery store. At all. And I definitely don't go into a seafood restaurant and ask "Can I get something without seafood in it? I hate seafood."

I say that as well, but I am partial to the odd fish taco

Honestly reading through the hate I think the core of the NTR issue is a lot of unhappy people are looking for someone to look down on to try feel superior. Man kicks dog, dog bites cat, cat bites mouse, mouse chews a hole in the wall. Many people try to make themselves feel better by finding someone (they perceive as) worse off than them (just look how many assholes beat up the homeless).

Basically people shameful of their own kinks going 'well at least I'm not THAT guy'.

Roleplaying. The game introduces you to a female character, and you try to pretend that you're that character.

Guess im doing it wrong, because first thing I do is run straight into trouble whilst trying to find the 'remove clothes' function.

 

[Count Morado]

I say that as well, but I am partial to the odd fish taco

Honestly reading through the hate I think the core of the NTR issue is a lot of unhappy people are looking for someone to look down on to try feel superior. Man kicks dog, dog bites cat, cat bites mouse, mouse chews a hole in the wall. Many people try to make themselves feel better by finding someone (they perceive as) worse off than them (just look how many assholes beat up the homeless).

Basically people shameful of their own kinks going 'well at least I'm not THAT guy'.



Guess im doing it wrong, because first thing I do is run straight into trouble whilst trying to find the 'remove clothes' function.

Yup, otherism/othering -

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[suprisedcrankyface]

Yup, otherism/othering

There you go, I learnt a new word today. I am looking forwards to using it out of context when next buying a coffee to try look smart

 

[RaveDev]

I did a poll on this (how the MC is viewed) and the majority is 'maybe' (depends on the story telling), my guess is that NTR is just such a simple story device its far easier for people to instantly imagine.

There are narrative and content kinks, and NTR is about as basic as it gets in terms of a narrative kink (there is nothing really to unpack there, when compared for example to a well done corruption game).

Yeah, it really does depend on the narrative. I guess I could have worded my comments better, I just meant that some people do self-insert, not everyone. Oh, is it really that basic? maybe I was overthinking it a little bit... It sounds like I should definitely learn more.

No. And many do not. You are starting your argument with a personal choice and making the assumption that everyone chooses the way you do. There is enjoying content as a form of escapism... But the level at which a person may do so is as different as people in the world. See:
Also see:

You're absolutely right, sorry about that. Yes, people approach self-insertion differently, and reasons for disliking things like NTR are really varied and personal from person to personn. As a new writer and developer, I'm still learning how players engage with stories, and I honestly hadn't deeply considered the self-insertion angle when I was thinking about player reactions to NTR. So, I guess that's what I'm thinking regarding why people seem to hate it. I was just trying to get a better sense of how players feel about it. I mean, if I think about it, sometimes people can dislike things without a clear explanation. Yeah, sorry about that, I should have read up before commenting.

How then do men play female protagonist games?

I can very well disassociate from male protagonists having their loved ones taken from them because in my case, the enjoyment nearly always comes from the corruption of the woman/women in the plot, not the loss from the man/men.

Eeeehhh, it's 2025, it's like you can be whatever you want!
That's true, and I felt a similar way when thinking about NTR. Personally, I don't self-insert. What I find really interesting is the corruption part of the themes. I think this might be because people were discussing it (and some were complaining) on my thread, and I got curious about why others hated the genre, which led me to think on it, hence the post. But now I realize I should have read the whole thread before.

 

[HereBeRickets]

Project mockingbird but with humiliation porn to make a more subservient middle and upper class? Goes along with news media trying to class it as the thinking mans fetish.

Good idea for a story point regardless of actual truth.

Also reminds me of the time the German government were (Or did, can't remember) promote Femdom and interracial porn to combat sexism and racism.

 

[Revenant6537]

There's a number of threads that discuss about this

The hate mainly stems from Compassion, If you were raised right, then the basic concepts of "Don't cause suffering for others" should be understandable, if not, then understand that Humans are innately dependent on the concept of unity instead of Survival of the fittest. The Concept of Unity came along with a number of morals and standards, focusing on the topic of "HELP EACH OTHER BECAUSE IT CAN HAPPEN TO YOU TOO" and the standard of lying and stealing bad(your significant other). People have the imagination to be anyone in the story but will see the pain and suffering closer thus the Chode perspective.

It also stems from Fetishes, Like all things, it's a personal preference, You might like NTR a lot and react poorly/bad to Vanilla. The same goes to Vanilla lovers too, liking Vanilla and reacting poorly to NTR. "The Hindus disdain eating cows and eat pigs while Islam disdain eating the pigs and eat the cow." Your sexual gratifications aren't things anyone would see easily so if there's a "Tag" you don't like, how about you shut yo mouth before the worshippers of "Tag" incur their wrath.

 

[Count Morado]

Project mockingbird but with humiliation porn to make a more subservient middle and upper class? Goes along with news media trying to class it as the thinking mans fetish.

Good idea for a story point regardless of actual truth.

Also reminds me of the time the German government were (Or did, can't remember) promote Femdom and interracial porn to combat sexism and racism.

Project Mockingbird? Real.

Everything else mentioned...
View attachment Weird Al Yankovic - Foil.mp4

 

[Lupiscanis]

Roleplaying. The game introduces you to a female character, and you try to pretend that you're that character.

So then can one not roleplay without associating yourself so closely to that role that you can't separate yourself afterwards?

I mean, otherwise the Hitman franchise is a lot more dangerous than I ever thought.

I'm being glib, but my point is that just because you roleplay something you can do it for many reasons - not because you think you are the thing you're roleplaying.

 

[Lupiscanis]

Eeeehhh, it's 2025, it's like you can be whatever you want!

Just to clear, my post wasn't meant as denigration or lack of empathy for people who don't identify as a binary gender etc etc.

(I don't think this is what you were getting at but I wanted to clarify).

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

Everything else mentioned...

My understanding is they run Legal brothels there for the protection of the women but porn wasn't run the same way & they looked into that. I could be wrong.

Like you had to use protection to bang a prostitute at a place of their own choosing, but with porn its do whatever.

Its like in some places in the US- prostitution illegal, but get your friend to film it in the corner (for publication) and suddenly its fine

They are treated differently when they are kinda two sides of the same coin.

 

[HereBeRickets]

Everything else mentioned...

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The Daily Mail provided more details about the event, but it's a polarizing news source being centre right.

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[Geigi]

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Porn for women, when?!

 

[Lupiscanis]

Porn for women, when?!

10 units of whatever currency you choose that it's when men can get over themselves enough to not have such a visceral reaction to anything that remotely approaches emasculation.

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

SPD state party conference: Berlin SPD wants to promote feminist porn

Feminist doesn't mean femdom

'use protection and don't use their hair as a lever' isn't the same as 'let them peg you', particularly as Germans have a massive amount of that kind of porn already (not sure why, but those guys and Japan really take the cake for hard kinks).

Also thats a minority party, its not like half their gov is for it.

Porn for women, when?!

It already exists, I think its 70% of erotic literature is for women. Guys are much more visual so most porn is more for guys. I saw a girl porn once for lesbians, and it was boring AF. Some girl realistically getting off on her own, not a single 'yeya' to be heard.

 

[HereBeRickets]

Feminist doesn't mean femdom

I’d care, but that’s not really the point here. The point is that the government is considering interfering with something to push an agenda they align with.

It happens, does happen, is happening.

 

[Lupiscanis]

I’d care, but that’s not really the point here. The point is that the government is considering interfering with something to push an agenda they align with.

It happens, does happen, is happening.

I think you're getting a little over the top here. Nowhere in the article you linked is the actual government of Germany pushing this and the party in question that is, are only saying that want it to be more accessible. There are grant fundings for all kinds of things by all sorts of people (not just governments) - companies like Comcast apparently fund pornography, it's just something they don't like talking about. If it can make money, you can be assured that someone is profiting off of it.

Also

The Daily Mail provided more details about the event, but it's a polarizing news source being centre right.

It's cute that you think the daily mail is 'centre-right' lol.

*edit* - clarified a sentence.

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

I’d care, but that’s not really the point here.

it kinda is though, because you misrepresented what they were trying to do and made it sound like they were forcing female domination into the porn industry rather trying to create a less one sided work environment.

The point is that the government is considering interfering with something to push an agenda they align with.

It happens, does happen, is happening.

Yes, that is called governing. They are elected to DO that. Government regulates things. In a democracy that is often pushed by the popular opinion of the people, no voters =no win =no ability to make a law.

Brothels in Germany are legal and protected places, there are rules. Porn is much more of a wild west.

 

[HereBeRickets]

it kinda is though

I think you're reading into things or looking for an argument which I'm not really interested in.

Then I read the second part that you want your government interfering with your entertainment to push an opinion or agenda just because you voted for them and think you're a fucking tit.

good day, sir.

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

I think you're reading into things or looking for an argument which I'm not really interested in.

Then dont start one?

You grossly exaggerated something, don't like the answer.

Then I read the second part that you want your government interfering with your entertainment to push an opinion or agenda just because you voted for them and think you're a fucking tit.

good day, sir.

Yes, I think the Germans should decide how they regulate Germany.