4.30 star(s) 53 Votes

Carryon

Member
Apr 19, 2017
130
615
Unlocks are one thing, but metaprogression of stats is simply not part of the genre.

If you aren't dealing enough damage to get by, consider trying to get molested on the regular for double base damage. A troublesome board state is troublesome no more if you just slap like two 100 damage Trick Shots on it.
 
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irreverent69

Newbie
Apr 21, 2018
38
225
When I test the game I never use codes or edit any values. I go through the game exactly like the player does.
I’ve ran through the game over 30 times in the last week.
you are confusing rogue likes and rogue lites. My game is as advertised.
Maybe YOU should have done a quick google search before writing that review.
My game is hard, I like it that way, I’m not tricking anyone into playing a hard game.
that being said, I wouldn’t mind adding some very small forms of progression in there later, but I want them to be minuscule. This is a game you win through learning, not through grinding. That’s the intention.
Yeah alright you know what I can 100% say you're in the right on what a Rouge-like is. This game got me turned around on the two types, "like" and "lite" but that's half of what I was getting at in my post. I have played and beaten most big named rouge-like's and lite's on steam, hence why I felt comfortable enough to review.

But interestingly enough now that I have slept on it I think I was hitting close to the mark when I brought up lack of content in my last post. I stand by the progression statement even more so now. What you have created so far IS a Rouge-LITE in its frame work. The most recent one I played is Against the storm so I'll use that as comparison, Hour long rounds that have a lot of RNG involved BUT you get points to build a skill tree that gives you small but stacking benefits to play the nest round. Where as A rouge-Like would have you learning from your mistakes in a structured environment, choose the better path for the task ahead, what skills and items best suits the challenge you are currently facing. You can't do that If the path is completely RNG... from the start you choose your RNG skills, the map is RNG, the chests and bosses drop RNG loot. There's nothing to learn from, nothing to take with me into my next run... soooo having the small but stacking benefits is the next logical thing is it not?

And that brings me back to the lack of content comment, you can wave all that away with the simple statement like "the game needs balancing, and there's a plan to add 30 more floors!". Which is fine but everyone here isn't playing / critiquing what the dream is only what is here now. That's the double edge of early access.

Also I see a few posts comment on mine saying or trolling the classic "skill issue" more or less assuming I didn't beat the game? Weird assumption... Of course I finished the game or at least what is currently there, how else could I speak to the systems within it? Is the well truly that poisoned that people jump to that conclusion if there's a different opinion?

Last item that is indicative of wasting your time in a game. The game play loop is simple if not insanely time consuming. There is absolutely nothing stopping the dev from cutting travel distance by 50% and bumping all damage types inflicted 2x higher and gold earned by the same. Even 25% travel and 4x damage and earnings would effect absolutely nothing in the actual gameplay aside from the feeling you are accomplishing something with bloated time sinks. Whether you like it or not people will notice that, even if they don't know how to put it into words. I can plainly see I hit a nerve with Trongle and hopefully you believe me when I say if I didn't see potential or thought your game was a lost cause I would never have left a review, never bothered to type this out. Take it or leave it but being surrounded with "yasss queen! 5/5" can do more harm than any honest but harsh review could.

Best of luck again!
 
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MilesKiyaAnny

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2019
1,567
448
Why i got feeling that choosing better path is already in this game

annyway, I not want to start drama and also do not want to interfere one dev idea and work. if it fail it fail if it fun for us it fun for us.
now here to say that i do not have time to try new update but will grab one and stick to my phone for awhile or not yet until more than gallery update come
 
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Carryon

Member
Apr 19, 2017
130
615
Words words words

My guy :V

You can't go on about how you're an 'honest but harsh' reviewer when you can't even get the genre right (Against the Storm, being a roguelite, gives you stacking gameplay benefits as you unluck metaprogression, unlike this one where you can only unlock sidegrades that are mutually exlusive with the stuff you already have) and are so fundamentally confused about the core gameplay conceit of 'since you cannot simply one-tap enemies with basic attacks, you will have to take care of your action economy efficiently enough that you can dispose of them anyway' that you come crying to the thread about how it's an RNG fest where you should be able to one-tap enemies lmao.

Honestly, this whole interaction does not come across as the devs being the ones whose nerves have been hit.
 

irreverent69

Newbie
Apr 21, 2018
38
225
From what I can tell, Trongle and Cardinal are making a game with sex as a mechanic and bonus, not porn with a lackluster "game" attached to it. It's a little different than most releases you'll see on here, which is why I kinda got attached to it. It is a really hard game, but I thought your review was kind of unfair because roguelikes don't really even need progression to be a roguelike. The progression is supposed to come through the gameplay. But even beyond that, this game, even unfinished, DOES have progression and something to work towards outside of your individual runs.

Their team doesn't make much off of patreon and they all still work regular jobs and make this little passion project on the side for people, and as of right now it's totally free. I think that deserves a little slack. And if you don't like the difficulty, it takes about 5 seconds to edit your damage output and make a mod that makes the game easier. Definitely check it out a few months from now and see how it evolves.
I don't want to spam the thread but take a read of my reply to Trongle above. The last sentence of that really is my honest opinion, that there is a thing as to much false reassurance. I don't doubt their commitment to making a great game in their off hours, something I also enjoying doing. But if you are going to put something out there, people will come to see it and judging on the split opinions in the thread has, its clear there are some issues around the balancing or game play loop. Possibly not being well articulated by the posters but there is a issue. Now everyone could just never have said something, all 4 star and under reviews could have just not bothered and in that case their patreon might have 100 subs.

But, if people came, played and thought this could really be a great game... and they spoke their issues, maybe not always articulated well but they gave feed back. And the most important thing happens, the team looks at whats causing the stresses and addresses them. Maybe, just maybe that patreon could have a couple more 0's on the end of the sub count.

I will be checking it out in a few months!
 

Carryon

Member
Apr 19, 2017
130
615
Alright, less words... Against the storm is a......???
You need to work on your reading comprehension.

EDIT: Actually, scratch that, a bit too nippy and bad faith a response for my tastes. I said that Against the Storm is, indeed, a Roguelite, for reasons I stated. This game is not though, despite your claim, also for reasons stated.
 
Oct 8, 2019
129
253
Yeah alright you know what I can 100% say you're in the right on what a Rouge-like is. This game got me turned around on the two types, "like" and "lite" but that's half of what I was getting at in my post. I have played and beaten most big named rouge-like's and lite's on steam, hence why I felt comfortable enough to review.

But interestingly enough now that I have slept on it I think I was hitting close to the mark when I brought up lack of content in my last post. I stand by the progression statement even more so now. What you have created so far IS a Rouge-LITE in its frame work. The most recent one I played is Against the storm so I'll use that as comparison, Hour long rounds that have a lot of RNG involved BUT you get points to build a skill tree that gives you small but stacking benefits to play the nest round. Where as A rouge-Like would have you learning from your mistakes in a structured environment, choose the better path for the task ahead, what skills and items best suits the challenge you are currently facing. You can't do that If the path is completely RNG... from the start you choose your RNG skills, the map is RNG, the chests and bosses drop RNG loot. There's nothing to learn from, nothing to take with me into my next run... soooo having the small but stacking benefits is the next logical thing is it not?

And that brings me back to the lack of content comment, you can wave all that away with the simple statement like "the game needs balancing, and there's a plan to add 30 more floors!". Which is fine but everyone here isn't playing / critiquing what the dream is only what is here now. That's the double edge of early access.

Also I see a few posts comment on mine saying or trolling the classic "skill issue" more or less assuming I didn't beat the game? Weird assumption... Of course I finished the game or at least what is currently there, how else could I speak to the systems within it? Is the well truly that poisoned that people jump to that conclusion if there's a different opinion?

Last item that is indicative of wasting your time in a game. The game play loop is simple if not insanely time consuming. There is absolutely nothing stopping the dev from cutting travel distance by 50% and bumping all damage types inflicted 2x higher and gold earned by the same. Even 25% travel and 4x damage and earnings would effect absolutely nothing in the actual gameplay aside from the feeling you are accomplishing something with bloated time sinks. Whether you like it or not people will notice that, even if they don't know how to put it into words. I can plainly see I hit a nerve with Trongle and hopefully you believe me when I say if I didn't see potential or thought your game was a lost cause I would never have left a review, never bothered to type this out. Take it or leave it but being surrounded with "yasss queen! 5/5" can do more harm than any honest but harsh review could.

Best of luck again!
Try and understand that every time this game hits latest updates people swarm in complaining about the difficulty. I'm not even the dev and I want to say "It's not for you then!"

I too have played far too many indie rogue likes/lites I want to say that I don't agree with your opinions on artificial time sinks or the game needing meta progression of stats between runs. I find the game to be pretty well balanced around the base stats of the characters, and honestly a good 80% of the time I lose is trying to finesse someone dying to become a slave (or picking a heroine to use nets now lol).

But I do agree with some of your ideas. I think the issue isn't needing meta progression but rather needing progression within a run. As it goes, the difficulty spikes around minibosses/real boss and is pretty much constant from the beginning to the end otherwise. The heroines gain stats and skills but the enemies don't scale and the difficulty is the rng of how much you're dealing with at a given spawn.

I believe Trongle touched on this saying something like level 2 was going to be a challenge, and to be fair the game is a demo with one level as it is now. I've read this thread and the dev thread and both devs have a good handle on core game ideas like meaningful difficulty and it shows in the game being relatively lean feature wise (it's a demo) but with an engaging gameplay loop. They clearly put a lot of thought into the "meta" design elements and it shows.

My honest criticism then would be that the runs need some more player agency outside of combat decisions, more variance run to run (aside from skills), and that the difficulty of the combat should escalate as the run progresses. Personally I'd consider STS to be the king of nailing this for a couple reasons. They've got ? nodes with probabilities instead of outcomes that can be solved, relic system "suggests" build directions instead of forcing best options, smithing provides a risk/reward progression within the runs.

Not every game needs to be STS of course but there's a lot they did right. I'm already completely hooked here and really want to see what's done with level 2. Basically, the game has room to improve but the devs have shown they're good people for it. I want to see what they can put on this base.
 

irreverent69

Newbie
Apr 21, 2018
38
225
Try and understand that every time this game hits latest updates people swarm in complaining about the difficulty. I'm not even the dev and I want to say "It's not for you then!"

I too have played far too many indie rogue likes/lites I want to say that I don't agree with your opinions on artificial time sinks or the game needing meta progression of stats between runs. I find the game to be pretty well balanced around the base stats of the characters, and honestly a good 80% of the time I lose is trying to finesse someone dying to become a slave (or picking a heroine to use nets now lol).

But I do agree with some of your ideas. I think the issue isn't needing meta progression but rather needing progression within a run. As it goes, the difficulty spikes around minibosses/real boss and is pretty much constant from the beginning to the end otherwise. The heroines gain stats and skills but the enemies don't scale and the difficulty is the rng of how much you're dealing with at a given spawn.

I believe Trongle touched on this saying something like level 2 was going to be a challenge, and to be fair the game is a demo with one level as it is now. I've read this thread and the dev thread and both devs have a good handle on core game ideas like meaningful difficulty and it shows in the game being relatively lean feature wise (it's a demo) but with an engaging gameplay loop. They clearly put a lot of thought into the "meta" design elements and it shows.

My honest criticism then would be that the runs need some more player agency outside of combat decisions, more variance run to run (aside from skills), and that the difficulty of the combat should escalate as the run progresses. Personally I'd consider STS to be the king of nailing this for a couple reasons. They've got ? nodes with probabilities instead of outcomes that can be solved, relic system "suggests" build directions instead of forcing best options, smithing provides a risk/reward progression within the runs.

Not every game needs to be STS of course but there's a lot they did right. I'm already completely hooked here and really want to see what's done with level 2. Basically, the game has room to improve but the devs have shown they're good people for it. I want to see what they can put on this base.
Honestly well said, yeah I agree that player agency would go a long way to solving for the RNG feelings. STS is a great example and as you said could be a great source to pull from. As for what you agree on, yeah any progression whether meta or within a run will go a long way to helping the game. Its funny I found myself losing to the same things, trying to force a scene i han't unlocked or ignoring everything to get a net to a boss haha.

But I would push back on if the travel time stays there needs to be something meaningful to force my primitive monkey brain not to make the connection of how everything could be scaled much much lower and change nothing. That is where some overarching system based around player agency would come in, (off the top of my head) like the ability to choose a the direction within the larger path you choose, giving you an idea of what mobs will spawn ever 5 rounds. This could make you feel like you have more choice and provide a learning / play stlye with the preferance of what you will face. Not a 50 round RNG grind fest that you have no say over.


Thanks for engaging in the post, not just trying to "ummm actually" me with irrelevant tangents.
 

RobinBanks14

New Member
Jun 16, 2020
3
0
This is just a bad video game. If there were no tits, no one would play it.

Your girls don't scale quickly enough.
 

Trongle

Artist, writer, game designer.
Game Developer
Jun 16, 2018
305
805
I will be checking it out in a few months!
You gave the gameplay 0 points, so
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I’m making this game for a very niche community of masochistic eroRPG players that want a crazy stupid amount of challenge and like building a community that learns to play the game and share its secrets together. I’m aware I could make more money if the game was made for someone else, but I want to make a game for those people. A game for me.
Thanks for four hours of your time, but if the gameplay “goes out of its way to waste your time” as you say, I don’t see why in hell you’d come back for more in the future. A few QoL improvements aren’t ever going to change your mind. Unless you’re becoming a masochist gamer, in which case you should give up and join the discord with the rest of us. You’ll know exactly where this project is headed at all times and there won’t be any need to periodically check in.
 
Sep 13, 2021
42
14
So I've been playing the game from like the get-go starting from the first update. But I'm still confused on the slaver, like I'm not sure if that mechanic is broken but I don't think he's ever captured one of my team members. Also idk what the "arena" is, but I'm guessing it's gonna appear after I beat the stage boss this update? Either way pretty fun game. Also understand it might be more difficult in the future, but I hope I can adapt.
 

Trongle

Artist, writer, game designer.
Game Developer
Jun 16, 2018
305
805
is anyone else's cursor not appearing on their screen or am i just unlucky
That’s a random one we haven’t been able to solve yet. Restarting your computer makes it go away, and for me it never came back.
 

Trongle

Artist, writer, game designer.
Game Developer
Jun 16, 2018
305
805
Dude i just got that bug as well. No idea whats causing it, i have no new background apps going on and its unplayable
Reset your pc and see if it goes away. Sorry, we haven’t found what’s causing it yet.
 
4.30 star(s) 53 Votes