Recommending Story-first games

[jufot]

She's what a retrograde man who grew up in the 90s like me would call 'high maintenance' -- in other words, she requires considerable attention, positive reinforcement and TLC if a relationship with her is going to work. Wade, who seems like a decent guy (despite his laziness) is 100% wrong for her, at least at this stage in his life.

High maintenance women often get an unfairly bum rap. But high maintenance need not mean selfish or self-centered... or ungenerous, or unkind. They just require an active, attentive partner if they are going to flourish.

100% agreed, couldn't have said it better myself.

Contra jufot, I don't think single people get a moral carte blanche if they seduce an individual away from their committed partner. It violates what Christians call 'the Great Commandment' ('do unto others as you would have others do unto you'/treat others as you would like to be treated) an idea that underpins most other moral systems, too.

Well, I've never cheated, and have never been cheated on. Perhaps I'd feel differently if it happened to me. I do know people who have cheated and everyone - including the betrayed partner - ended up way happier over the long term. That said, I don't claim to be right or anything, it's just how I feel.

What if Ian could restore her relationship with Wade... but in a way that makes it clear that Wade could never make her as happy as Ian could?

You can help repair their relationship, but not in a way that triggers some self reflection in them. That would definitely be interesting, but I don't see Eva doing that. The relationships in both ORS and GGGB are not that deep.

 

[Raife]

You can help repair their relationship, but not in a way that triggers some self reflection in them. That would definitely be interesting, but I don't see Eva doing that. The relationships in both ORS and GGGB are not that deep.

Which brings us back to your earlier, excellent, point: fewer LIs in a game is generally better, particularly if it allows for more realistic, in-depth character or relationship development with the MC. There are exceptions, but this is a good rule of thumb.

Your observation that in games with a great many LIs, you tend to pick one or two and 'play for them' describes my playstyle, too. Sometimes, I appreciate having alternative routes or LIs available IF they shed additional light on the main LIs' personalities under stress, or their behaviour when they are mistreated. Even in these negative scenarios, I can appreciate positive aspects of their character that are not revealed in the 'true path' route.

But... in general, creating additional LIs and plot branches is a net negative for me, because it reduces the writing and resources devoted to developing the main LI. This is an issue in Eva's games (ORS and GGGB), _Intertwined_, and could well become a problem in _Nothing is Forever_.

One of the great virtues of _Hillside_ is that the dev maintains his focus on a single family and a primary LI, and doesn't get too distracted by plot branches. Quite a lot of players -- particularly those playing simply for porn -- hate that and complain vociferously. But, personally... I find a soft kiss on the cheek from a well-developed LI like Charlotte is so much more erotic than insta-sex with a beautifully rendered rando LI in your standard porn game.

 

[jufot]

But, personally... I find a soft kiss on the cheek from a well-developed LI like Charlotte is so much more erotic than insta-sex with a beautifully rendered rando LI in your standard porn game.

Yeah, that sweet kiss on the cheek was the culmination of more than 1.5 years of development, and it was sooo worth it

 

[LorgarAurelian]

Not shure if My New Family and My New Memories fits all of your criterias, but I would like to recomend the none the less.

 

[jufot]

Not shure if My New Family and My New Memories fits all of your criterias, but I would like to recomend the none the less.

Not familiar with the former, but I've tried the latter a while ago. It seemed like a generic harem game where everyone lusts after MC's magical dick, including his underage children, for no particular reason at all. The developer explicitly says all characters will be "lewdable". That definitely wouldn't fit this thread

 

[LorgarAurelian]

Not familiar with the former, but I've tried the latter a while ago. It seemed like a generic harem game where everyone lusts after MC's magical dick, including his underage children, for no particular reason at all. The developer explicitly says all characters will be "lewdable". That definitely wouldn't fit this thread

No problem, just wanted to check.

 

[Raife]

Yeah, that sweet kiss on the cheek was the culmination of more than 1.5 years of development, and it was sooo worth it

Indeed. It's a bit strange to play a porn game and feel morally uplifted after reading through it for an hour... but _Hillside_ is that sort of game. I'm starting to think it's about family... how strangers learn to trust each other and become something more. Which doesn't, of course, preclude the possibility of really spectacular sex, particularly with the main LI...

 

[Deleted member 1044747]

Also, Pale Carnations is a really cool game, this time more on the maledom side. Personally I hate maledom, but this is wonderfully written game (plus as a film buff I love references to various movies).

I'd like to second this recommendation (https://f95zone.to/threads/pale-carnations-ch-3-update-2-public-mutt-jeff.50281/).

It's a really well written, true adult VN.
I read it a while ago and found it quite fascinating, although at times rather dark and repulsive.
It was almost a bit too much for me - in fact I almost quit during the "trial" scene because it was literally hard to stomach.
I'm glad I continued to see the (cathartic) payoff. A brilliantly written scene.
The LIs are beautiful, although the devs seem to have a thing for comically large boobs (not my kink).
If that's okay with you and if you are into depraved stuff like humiliation, this may be the perfect VN for you.

how strangers learn to trust each other

Is that really the case, though?
I haven't touched Hillside yet because after reading some (critical) reviews there are some major red flags for me.
Aside from the fact that this looks like a Lexi knockoff one of them is that the MC is abusing the trust of the family by spying on them and doing other shitty things which breach their privacy.
He's pretty much the same stalker like the one he's supposed to protect the daughter from.
I already disliked that about Lexi, but I dislike it in general when the MC and his (shitty) actions are treated like it's not a big deal while every other male character is portrayed as a villain.
It's even worse when the MC is characterised as the second coming of Jesus - not only being an (naturally good looking) bodyguard, but also perfect nanny, fitness trainer, life coach, therapist, business consultant and whatnot.
Maybe I'm unfair here, but I always find these kinds of stories rather ridiculous and hard to believe.

*in before being lynched by the angry Hillside crowd*

 

[Mister_M]

Aside from the fact that this looks like a Lexi knockoff one of them is that the MC is abusing the trust of the family by spying on them and doing other shitty things which breach their privacy.

I'm not writing this to convince you to play Hillside, but maybe I can present my view on the game as someone who plays it. I've played both Lexi and Hillside and I think Hillside is the superior one from the two. I never thought that MC is abusing the trust (as a matter of fact, the woman he works for doesn't trust him initially, so part of the game is spent on gaining her trust). There's one instance when MC goes through the phone messages of the kid he's protecting, but he does that reluctantly and convinced to do so by the girl's mother's sister in order to find more about the stalker(s) and girl's bullying issues at school. Apart from that I don't think (at least with the choices I've made) that MC acted inappropriately at any time. As MC in adult game he is believed to be attractive by almost all women in the game, that's true, but it's not uncommon in AVNs and I don't think it's overdone here (esp. that we only have 4 female characters/LIs here, one of which is a teenage girl [for whom MC, at least on my playthrough, acts more like a surrogate father/uncle and not like a perv who wants to have sex with underage kid; as a matter of fact MC is quite reluctant when it comes to sexual matters and even declines having sex numerous times].

jufot
I think maybe Welcome to Free Will and The Roommate could be interesting to you.

 

[jufot]

rather dark and repulsive [...] literally hard to stomach [...] if you are into depraved stuff like humiliation

To each their own, but I'm not even remotely interested in that. I've abandoned plenty of games when that kind of content was introduced. Mere depiction is one thing, and I can tolerate it if it's about condemning that behaviour (like in Hillside), but if I get the feeling that the dev is getting off to that shit I'll stop playing immediately. Desert Stalker is a great example of such vomit-inducing games for me.

MC is abusing the trust of the family by spying on them and doing other shitty things which breach their privacy.

I... don't think so? Do you have a specific scene in mind?

@jufot
I think maybe Welcome to Free Will could be interesting to you.

Will check it out, thank you

 

[Raife]

Is that really the case, though?
I haven't touched Hillside yet, because after reading some (critical) reviews there are some major red flags for me.
Aside from the fact that this looks like a Lexi knockoff one of them is that the MC is abusing the trust of the family by spying on them and doing other shitty things which breach their privacy.
He's pretty much the same stalker like the one he's supposed to protect the daughter from.
I already disliked that about Lexi, but I dislike it in general when the MC and his (shitty) actions are treated like it's not a big deal while every other male character is portrayed as a villain.
It's even worse when the MC is characterised as the second coming of Jesus - not only being an (naturally good looking) bodyguard, but also perfect nanny, fitness trainer, life coach, therapist, business consultant and whatnot.
Maybe I'm unfair here, but I always find these kinds of stories rather ridiculous and hard to believe.

*in before being lynched by the angry Hillside crowd*

I'd say that if Hillside were the way you describe, I'd share your concerns. But you have the wrong end of the stick... on most all of the points you raise.

I do not like games where the MC betrays the trust of other characters (particularly involuntarily) and I _hate_ porn tropes like sleep creeping and other abuse. In fact, I was very concerned that the dev might be creating a path where the young daughter would be sexualized... but he did not.

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The MC absolutely is not a Gary Stu -- which is another valid but misplaced concern. Sure, he's big and good looking (at least in Charlotte's eyes) but he makes mistakes, and is suffering from some serious psychological trauma himself. He certainly is not Mr. Perfect... in fact, I'd say he rather dislikes himself and feels guilty most of the time for what he sees as his past mistakes.

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So... he is not a Gary Stu. And, as jufot says, his position in the family is quite tenuous for a long time... Charlotte does not trust him at all... precisely because she seems to expect him to be the kind of sex creep that you fear he is. In other words, it's a complete subversion of the porn trope that you're afraid of: the MC is an anti-stalker. (The fact that you _don't_ get to do all of the stuff that you're afraid the MC might do has pissed off a ton of players on the Hillside thread... but fills me with glee!)

There are quite a few male characters in the game... but not all of them are villains. Sure, there are some very, very evil male characters, but there is also a trusted friend, a good hearted young man with honourable intentions, and an ambiguously motivated male authority figure.

Forced sex, abuse, sex creeping and betrayal of trust is alluded to in the game (mostly in flashbacks about Charlotte's life) and it is portrayed, accurately, as horrible and traumatising. There are zero cheap porn tropes in this game... it absolutely subverts your expectations, if you go in expecting those tropes.

Give it a try!

 

[Deleted member 3917737]

*in before being lynched by the angry Hillside crowd*

Maybe you should play the game for yourself before judging it. It's definitely an amazing game, in my opinion.

 

[Raife]

Maybe you should play the game for yourself before judging it. It's definitely an amazing game, in my opinion.

Don't blame poor Casual! CV has been mislead by poor reviews. If I had a nickel for every dumb review written by a semi-literate mouth-breather on this site, I'd be a much richer man. That's why it pays to follow someone like jufot who has plenty of grey matter and knows what he's talking about (most of the time).

 

[jufot]

That's why it pays to follow someone like jufot who has plenty of grey matter and knows what he's talking about (most of the time).

Thanks, appreciate it There are a bunch of people (many of whom are in this thread) whose reviews I trust, and I tried a bunch of games thanks to their thoughts. I would have never known about A Summer's End without Casual Voyeur, for example.

 

[Raife]

Thanks, appreciate it There are a bunch of people (many of whom are in this thread) whose reviews I trust, and I tried a bunch of games thanks to their thoughts. I would have never known about A Summer's End without Casual Voyeur, for example.

Well said: I need to try _A Summer's End_... so many games to play, but so few good games.

For my money, the best discovery via this thread has been _Nothing is Forever_. I missed that one entirely. Thanks.

 

[Nyravrod]

Well said: I need to try _A Summer's End_... so many games to play, but so few good games.

Oh you are in for a treat if you have not yet played A Summer's End definitely one of the best VNs I have played. It is a wonderfully written story.

 

[Deleted member 1044747]

I'm not writing this to convince you to play Hillside (...)

Thanks for sharing your insightful view. I may give it a try sometime to form my own opinion.

To each their own, but I'm not even remotely interested in that.

Which is perfectly fine. It's not my kink either, but maybe someone else is interested.
As I said before it's a very well written visual novel, but also pretty fucked up at times.

However, since you seem so much against depraved stuff (which I don't blame you for) - how do you deal with the sexual assault / rape content in Hillside?
I vividly remember an attempted rape scene in Lexi which I found quite disturbing - not only because it was rape (which is horrible in its own right), but because I couldn't shake off the feeling the dev was (ab)using that scene as some sort of crowd-pleasing.
I could argue that maybe the dev of Hillside gets off these scenes as well (even though they are ostensibly used as something horrible).

I... don't think so? Do you have a specific scene in mind?

For convenience I'm simply quoting a review I came across:

The story has a certain irony to it, because it's about the MC (a bodyguard) protecting people from a stalker, while at the same time spilling all the intimate details of a famous model's life to a bartender, going to a detective and asking him to dig into extremely personal case files on Charlotte, and installing a keylogger on the daughter's phone. Ignoring the fact that any one of these things would get a bodyguard fired immediately, who is the real stalker in this story?

I'd say that if Hillside were the way you describe, I'd share your concerns. (...)

Again, thanks for sharing your insightful view. It's appreciated.

Charlotte does not trust him at all... precisely because she seems to expect him to be the kind of sex creep that you fear he is.

Which brings me to my (and apparently many others') next point of criticism - if she hates and fears men so much, why even hire a male bodyguard in the first place? (In before: He's the best in the business).

And why doesn't he quit the job after realising not only he's not trusted, but actively hampered in his work? (Rhetorical question - the story would end right here.)

CV has been mislead by poor reviews

I wouldn't say that.
I try to avoid 1 star (hate) reviews because they are rarely objective.
Personally, I would never give a game / VN a 1 star rating because that's simply unfair towards any content creator.
Thinking about it - I once did award 1 stars for a VN which had pedophile content in it - and by pedophile I don't mean 15 year old girls, but 10 year old. Disgusting. However, it got deleted (my review, not the VN).
Instead I focus on 3 star ratings - most likely the least biased (re)views in my opinion.

 

[Mister_M]

And why doesn't he quit the job after realising not only he's not trusted, but actively hampered in his work? (Rhetorical question - the story would end right here.)

That question and his desire to leave work was present in the game. MC was hired by Charlie, but in reality he got this job cause of Charlie's sister Lucy, so when he shares with Lucy his desire to quit work, she tells him about Charlie's past (abusive men, rape, etc.) and MC understands then that her distrustful behavior is more than warranted and decides to stay, plus he's fueled by his deep regrets caused by the death of a different girl named Emma (the same as Charlie's daughter) and he sees protecting this "new" Emma as a shot at redemption; that also motivates him to stay and also to install keylogger, but both keylogger thing and digging into Charlie's past thing is encouraged (if not caused) by Lucy, Charlie's sister (in my playthrough MC's agreeing with her works well imo also cause he is in relationship with Lucy). I agree with you though that the whole "everyone has secrets and is lying to everyone to protect them" schtick at some started to get tiring, but since last update the communication between everyone got better and they started to talk more openly with each other, which is good imo.

 

[Raife]

However, since you seem so much against depraved stuff (which I don't blame you for) - how do you deal with the sexual assault / rape content in Hillside?

Which brings me to my (and apparently many others') next point of criticism - if she hates and fears men so much, why even hire a male bodyguard in the first place? (In before: He's the best in the business).

And why doesn't he quit the job after realising not only he's not trusted, but actively hampered in his work? (Rhetorical question - the story would end right here.)

Let me try to address these points as best I can:

• Non-consensual assault/rape content in _Hillside_ is not objectified (or shown in detail), is depicted unambiguously negatively, and it disgusts the MC. It is there to provide backstory and explain why Charlotte is the way she is. It's an integral part of the story.
• There is considerable dialogue, early in _Hillside_ that explains why the MC is hired. Basically, Lucy (Charlotte's sister/manager) thinks he has the best references, and that Charlotte is excessively distrustful of all men due to her horrific experiences. (Lucy actively wants to hire a man, largely for those reasons.) The MC himself offers to find Charlotte a female bodyguard when he first meets her and discovers her concerns, but Charlotte insists on getting the best person (regardless of gender) due to her fear for her daughter's safety. Emma (Charlotte's daughter) is the one being guarded... not Charlotte (at least not initially).
• The review you've excerpted is extraordinary ungenerous about the MC's motives. Each of its points is arguably contradicted explicitly in the narrative. For example: it is _Lucy_ who first reveals the details of Charlotte's assault to the MC, mostly so that he can better protect the family, and the keylogger is installed at Lucy's urging (despite the MC's qualms) because Emma is being stalked. The MC approaches the police about Charlotte's attack in order to understand how such a brutal assault could have been hushed-up and not prosecuted... not to learn prurient details. The bartender is the MC's closest friend, not just a rando bartender, and the MC REFUSES to provide him with any details about Charlotte's life.

Look, I've done my best... but particularly in terms of this site, I'd describe this as a good-hearted game that has been radically misconstrued by one or two reviewers. Many people on the _Hillside_ thread complain that the game has _no sex_ in it... which would be strange if the MC were a creepy serial stalker... he isn't.

 

[jufot]

However, since you seem so much against depraved stuff (which I don't blame you for) - how do you deal with the sexual assault / rape content in Hillside?

For two reasons:
- There is no graphic rape, only physical assault
- It's depicted as something horrifying, not titillating

I vividly remember an attempted rape scene in Lexi which I found quite disturbing - not because it was rape (which is horrible in its own right), but because I couldn't shake off the feeling the dev was (ab)using that scene as some sort of crowd-pleasing.
I could argue that maybe the dev of Hillside gets off these scenes as well (even though they are ostensibly used as something horrible).

I haven't played Lexi so I can't comment on that, but I'm honestly baffled to see you think Hillside's dev is getting off on it. I can't even begin to imagine what/which scene makes you think of that...

For convenience I'm simply quoting a review I came across:

The story has a certain irony to it, because it's about the MC (a bodyguard) protecting people from a stalker, while at the same time spilling all the intimate details of a famous model's life to a bartender, going to a detective and asking him to dig into extremely personal case files on Charlotte, and installing a keylogger on the daughter's phone. Ignoring the fact that any one of these things would get a bodyguard fired immediately, who is the real stalker in this story?

OK, let's adress these point by point:

• That "bartender" is a trusted confidant of the MC, likely ex-military who served together with him. He might be a self-proclaimed ladies man, but he's not going to spill anything MC tells him. If anything, his trustworthiness was amply demonstrated in the latest update.
• Going to a detective and asking for details is what he's supposed to be doing. How can he protect them if he doesn't even know what the threats are? He's not a stalker, his concern is plainly legitimate.
• The keylogger on Emma's phone is likewise to prevent a much greater harm, and even then you can see he's uncomfortable with it. He's trying to help Emma without further traumatizing Charlotte, who is absolutely terrified something will happen to her daughter. MC is just helping.

Which brings me to my (and apparently many others') next point of criticism - if she hates and fears men so much, why even hire a male bodyguard in the first place? (In before: He's the best in the business).

Did you miss some of the story? It's because he was explicitly and strongly recommended to her. Even then, MC actually offers to resign and recommend a female guard instead, just to ease her worries. Would a stalker do that?

Honestly, it feels like we've played two entirely different games, and the characters just happened to share names