Recommending Story-first games

[Dragon59]

You're joking, but it gets even better.
Turns out the stepsister is actually a half-sister, because the mother once donated an egg to science.

Reading that inspired me to look up issues of sperm donors.
There was one man in Oregon who donated his sperm on the condition that it only be used 5 times and only for women outside of the Pacific Northwest (usually Oregon and Washington). Turns out it was used more than 5 times, and 17 were in the state of Oregon.

I didn't read further, but there was a sperm donor in England who, I believe, boasted of 137 offspring from that.

I don't know, I don't plan on doing an incest story, but if I did, I think it would be a comedy of errors with something like this. Perhaps the son of the prolific donor.

 

[EndlessNights]

A few people in this thread might be interested in the news that Freeloading Family has finally been officially completed after a long delay. I definitely wouldn't call it story-first, but I thought it held together a bit better than most incest and harem game stories do largely because the sister character, Alice, is such an unusual person. The unconventional relationships in the story are molded in part by her unconventional but quite sincerely held attitudes towards sex and love. The endings vary in quality, but I remember Melody's solo ending as being surprisingly good and I found her path overall quite satisfying.

Arisushi shared some nostalgia-soaked reflections on the game's journey and the newly released ending here.

 

[Raife]

There were three aspects of the latest episode of _Hillside_ that I enjoyed tremendously: (1) Dark Blue's continued subversion of porn game tropes, (2) our deepening understanding of the MCs character, and how broken he is and (3) the dev's development of Charlotte -- she might now be closing in on my favourite LI of all time, not just in this game.

First, the delightfully absurd... there is a clothes shopping scene in this update which is set up as the usual idiotic 'MC peeps on the hot woman in the changing room' AVN cliche... except that this time it is the female LI whose eyes drift towards the MC as he is changing... and _she_ makes _him_ pose and ogles his ass... causing him to feel awkward, annoyed and embarrassed. [chefs kiss] Like most of the episode, this scene is better on the plot's Charlotte Path.

Early in the game, I was worried that the MC would be a Gary Stu... and there are, indeed, aspects to his character that fit the usual male gamer wish-fulfillment role. But, this episode underlines how seriously screwed up he is, because of

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Which brings me to Charlotte and what an amazingly well-developed character she is. The game does a brilliant job showing both her strength and her vulnerability... and why she finds it so difficult to trust anyone outside her family, particularly men. Most games adopt a linear approach to developing romances; her romance with the MC has its ups and downs, its false starts and sudden coldness... and is all the better for it. In this episode, I particularly enjoyed that as she began to trust the MC more, her propensity to tease him and compete with him grew. Dark Blue also understands that sometimes the most romantic moments are quiet and don't involve sex at all, like the scene in the car, when Charlotte's hands are cold, and when she stands in front of the MC to interrupt Agent Fox, and he notices the smell of her hair.

Lucy is a brilliant LI, jufot... but I'm afraid that Charlotte has pulled ahead of her!

 

[Raife]

I'm struggling a little bit with the MC. I like that he's broken, but I'm not a fan of his particular character flaw. It's good to start with your protagonist in a bear trap. But it's less good when the bear trap is that he's doing this thing, and the solution is to just stop doing that thing. Yeah, he screwed up. But his big screw up was having sex ... in an erotic story. Yes, it was unprofessional. Yes it would have consequences. Yes, it's believable that he'd spiral into self-recriminations. But it's not enjoyable. I kept saying, "You've got friends. Talk to one of them!" The majority of his friends wouldn't even see it as something wrong. Some of them would go so far as to high five him over it. And, I suspect, the majority of players, who are interested in getting into the pants of one or more of the characters, wouldn't really hold it against him either.

Yes, I agree about the MC and his flaw. It's realistic, but not enjoyable to play.

There's something else: although I argued somewhat vehemently on this thread that the MC is not a tabula rasa -- he does have a profession, and a backstory that shapes him somewhat -- I've started to feel that Silver probably gave the player too much agency in shaping the MC's personality.

Don't get me wrong... I love the psychological tropes mechanic. It's creative and fun to play. But it means that the edges of the MC's personality are too undefined. He doesn't seem to have any boundaries. For example:

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I don't want to sound too negative: NiF is a great game for all the reasons you highlight, Tlaero. But, I agree: the MC is the weakest element.

As for others' comments on the LIs: Emma is my favourite, by far. Why? Because she has expectations of the MC. She wants the MC to be the best version of himself that he can be (in her view, anyway). A good partner should want nothing less! And she wants to pound the MC into submission, or vice-versa, via endless steamy, angry sex! So hot!

 

[jufot]

swimsoot's Camp Klondike is

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after its year-long hiatus

 

[bacienvu88]

As for others' comments on the LIs: Emma is my favourite, by far. Why? Because she has expectations of the MC. She wants the MC to be the best version of himself that he can be (in her view, anyway). A good partner should want nothing less! And she wants to pound the MC into submission, or vice-versa, via endless steamy, angry sex! So hot!

Are you saying that MC being humiliated or spouting lots of misogynistic crap is the best version of himself?

 

[Tlaero]

As for others' comments on the LIs: Emma is my favourite, by far.

I find Emma to be perfectly believable and unique in the cast (so, variety++). But I personally don't really like her. I find her to be kind of childish. She gets mad at the MC when another woman hugs him and get's really mad at him when he doesn't realize that she's hiding out on the balcony at a party, but never told him she wanted to be in an exclusive relationship with him. Quite the contrary, she nitpicked him in front of his friends.

I get it. She likes him, doesn't know how to show it, and is jealous. I absolutely believe there are people like that. I'm sure there are so many people like that that she's not even strange. But that's not the personality that I would get along well with.

However the fact that I'm choosing a love interest based on her personality and not her breast size speaks volumes about MrSilverLust's writing skill. I don't have to like them all. I really only have to like one of them.

Tlaero

 

[realjitter]

Don't get me wrong... I love the psychological tropes mechanic. It's creative and fun to play. But it means that the edges of the MC's personality are too undefined. He doesn't seem to have any boundaries. For example:

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Am I missing something here, what boundaries?. The Hillside MC is going to bang his client, the daugher of his client and the sister of his client... (in seperate storylines at least). And, like the professional that he is, he also murdered someone in affect if I remember correctly. I mean, sure he "deserved" it, but that's not how the world works, otherwise our prisons would be alot less crowded than they are... . Can someone spoil me btw how that got solved?.

Anyhow, to me the Hillside MC is one of the creepier ones out there. He means well, but isn't capable of seeings things clearly, which is a dangerous combination for everyone involved longterm. He has proven that already on several occasions.. There are parts of him that could be, hypothetically speaking, good for Charlotte, but that's not enough imo. Which is something the MC should acknowledge himself in my mind. But.. it's an AVN.....

Btw, wasn't his ex girlfriend also a client of his who got murdered?. I could be super wrong here so I apologize if I am=). But if that's true than there are quite a lot of similarities between the two MC's with the only difference being the NIF MC's more "delicate" line of work...

Oh, and since you're bringing up boundaries... I mean... you know... Emma?.

 

[Canto Forte]

The story in Hillside and in many other games,
those that we talk about here,
is working on different levels of plot for different groups of the charcaters.
This is how it manufactures the tension, the intrigue between the main charcaters,
that entices them to have interesting with a couple a meanings than they never think about convos.

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[vneotpolemus]

Yes, I agree about the MC and his flaw. It's realistic, but not enjoyable to play.

There's something else: although I argued somewhat vehemently on this thread that the MC is not a tabula rasa -- he does have a profession, and a backstory that shapes him somewhat -- I've started to feel that Silver probably gave the player too much agency in shaping the MC's personality.

Don't get me wrong... I love the psychological tropes mechanic. It's creative and fun to play. But it means that the edges of the MC's personality are too undefined. He doesn't seem to have any boundaries. For example:

Spoiler

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I don't want to sound too negative: NiF is a great game for all the reasons you highlight, Tlaero. But, I agree: the MC is the weakest element.

I don't have this issue with the MC character, because imo the MC's raison d'etre is that he's not a good psychologist. He was a great student, but he can't function as a clinician because he gets too emotionally attached. His tailspin isn't just guilt, it's failure as well. It's loss of identity. He isn't the person that he thought he was, and so now he's trying to work out who he really is.

 

[Dragon59]

Sorry for this off-topic message, but I needed to vent so that I can get to sleep.

I think I'm going to have to step away from F95 for a while.
preglovr12 gave me one infraction point for "Inappropriate Behavior" for writing two lines about putting people on ignore. He said he'd deleted 50 of my posts over tha last few weeks and was finding it annoying.

I then got banned for 3 days for talking about responding to someone who was very anti BDSM and compared it to bestiality. In that case, I may have been insensitive.

I've just received another "Inappropriate Behavior" infraction from preglovr12 for mentioning that Eturnum also has 7 core LIs on the Grandma's House thread.
He said he had deleted (shitcanned) 20 of my posts over the last three days.

Hard not to feel that I've done something to offend this moderator and he'll be watching me closely for any excuse. This used to be a good way for me to feel connected and engaged, but right now, I'm feeling a bit unsafe.

I guess I can stick to the unmoderated threads like my own discussions and Story-First Games, but I feel like I've pissed a moderator off and the blade is coming down.

Sorry to vent, my friends. This has been weighing on me and I've been unable to sleep. I'm dealing with a lot right now, and I don't want this to push me over the edge in Clinical Depression and Anxity.

 

[bacienvu88]

Sorry for this off-topic message, but I needed to vent so that I can get to sleep.

I think I'm going to have to step away from F95 for a while.

Sorry to vent, my friends. This has been weighing on me and I've been unable to sleep. I'm dealing with a lot right now, and I don't want this to push me over the edge in Clinical Depression and Anxity.

Take care! Your mental health is much more important than arguing on the internet.

 

[Dragon59]

Take care! Your mental health is much more important than arguing on the internet.

Thanks. I'd gladly forego the arguing (I will have to watch my fingers when someone says something stupid), but the games forum has overall helped my mental health. I don't want to let THAT go.

 

[bacienvu88]

Thanks. I'd gladly forego the arguing (I will have to watch my fingers when someone says something stupid), but the games forum has overall helped my mental health. I don't want to let THAT go.

I can only tell what I do to manage. Things I try to keep in mind when posting and reading here:

• Do I really have to respond to this person? In most cases, no.
• Is this thread something I have to read?
• It isn't my job to educate the people on F95.
• Sure, someone replied to me, but I have already said what I want. Further arguing is pointless.
• What do I gain by answering this post?
• Does reading the posts in this thread gain me more than it is inducing anxiety? Just step away from the thread.
• If things are too much, just step away from F95 for a few days.

In short: Only engage if it is something *I* enjoy / find interesting / etc. If someone else gain something from my post is a nice bonus, but not what is important for me.

 

[Dragon59]

I can only tell what I do to manage. Things I try to keep in mind when posting and reading here:

• Do I really have to respond to this person? In most cases, no.
• Is this thread something I have to read?
• It isn't my job to educate the people on F95.
• Sure, someone replied to me, but I have already said what I want. Further arguing is pointless.
• What do I gain by answering this post?
• Does reading the posts in this thread gain me more than it is inducing anxiety? Just step away from the thread.
• If things are too much, just step away from F95 for a few days.

In short: Only engage if it is something *I* enjoy / find interesting / etc. If someone else gain something from my post is a nice bonus, but not what is important for me.

Thanks. I will try to keep those in mind and resist my urge to educate. Hopefully that will reduce the heat..

I think what concerns me is that I've been here for three years with no problems other than a few posts deleted. Now all this in the last few weeks.

 

[bacienvu88]

Thanks. I will try to keep those in mind and resist my urge to educate. Hopefully that will reduce the heat..

I think what concerns me is that I've been here for three years with no problems other than a few posts deleted. Now all this in the last few weeks.

To elaborate a bit. The reason I wrote that post is partly because it feels good to help fellow sentient beings. But the major part of it is because I started thinking about what I do. I have never formulated this before so it gained me a lot to write out my thoughts.

 

[yossa999]

[...] And, like the professional that he is, he also murdered someone in affect if I remember correctly. I mean, sure he "deserved" it, but that's not how the world works, otherwise our prisons would be alot less crowded than they are... . Can someone spoil me btw how that got solved?.

You see the affect where I see the exact calculation and the best choice. Carter is a corrupt cop, a member of an organized crime ring, he is backed up by the most powerful people in the city, including the chief of the police department. What are the chances that he will be locked up in prison for a long time and not get away with punishment or receive a minimum term. Carter made his intentions clear by announcing that he would finish off the MC and then cut Charlie to pieces. By his actions, he proved that he is a danger. Why he let Emma go and didn't kill her is a big mystery to me. As long as he is alive, he poses an existential threat to the Lloyds.
At the same time, this moron managed to set himself up in such a way by releasing the hostage that guaranteed his safety and getting involved in an idiotic hand to hand fight with the MC while he could kill all the birds with a couple of shots. I think it sealed the deal and the MC didn't even go beyond self-defense.

 

[Raife]

I don't have this issue with the MC character, because imo the MC's raison d'etre is that he's not a good psychologist. He was a great student, but he can't function as a clinician because he gets too emotionally attached. His tailspin isn't just guilt, it's failure as well. It's loss of identity. He isn't the person that he thought he was, and so now he's trying to work out who he really is.

Yeah... I think you're right, or you've better defined the MC's dilemma.

While the setup is clever, it doesn't really change my complaint about the MC: he just feels a bit too unformed. Granted, as you say... he is seeking out and defining a new identity. But I would have appreciated a slightly more bounded character and personality. A larger 'core' that the player can define around the edges.

 

[Raife]

Anyhow, to me the Hillside MC is one of the creepier ones out there. He means well, but isn't capable of seeings things clearly, which is a dangerous combination for everyone involved longterm. He has proven that already on several occasions.. There are parts of him that could be, hypothetically speaking, good for Charlotte, but that's not enough imo. Which is something the MC should acknowledge himself in my mind. But.. it's an AVN.....

Btw, wasn't his ex girlfriend also a client of his who got murdered?. I could be super wrong here so I apologize if I am=). But if that's true than there are quite a lot of similarities between the two MC's with the only difference being the NIF MC's more "delicate" line of work...

Oh, and since you're bringing up boundaries... I mean... you know... Emma?.

This is a very, very common reaction to Hillside, jitter... there is a large subset of players who find the MC creepy.

On one level, I get it. Playing through the game from the start again, yesterday (Dark Blue has made a lot of small improvements) I noticed lots of foreshadowing and internal dialogue concerning the MC's anger and propensity for extreme violence. He is most definitely _not_ well: whenever he hears about a woman being abused, or certain other trigger words, he goes into a barely contained 'hulk mode' where he might be capable of anything. (The latest episode makes it clear why he's like this, without excusing it.) Killing the cop was definitely a highly, highly questionable act. Like Charlotte, I see it as very wrong... although, in the dystopian Hillside context, it made a degree of sense. Still, it was terrible (and, to be fair, depicted as terrible).

On the other hand, the MC does, frequently, acknowledge to himself that he might be bad for Charlotte (this is easier to see if you start over from the beginning), and is extremely reluctant to get more involved. The problem is that his enemies are literally Charlotte's enemies... and as soon as he learns that, his choices are rather constrained. His 'ex-girlfriend' was never his girlfriend... she was a client, who he secretly loved but could not protect from her actual boyfriend... the same man who nearly killed Charlotte. That connection, alone, transforms their relationship beyond the merely professional... it becomes something like an alliance, coupled with the tentative beginnings of intimacy.

Which leads me to a theory about why the MC in Hillside creeps out so many players, despite the fact that the game has almost no actual creepy behavior in the most obvious senses: no sleep sex, hell... almost no actual sex with any of the LIs, Lucy excepted. Literally 80% of games on this site feature more disturbing behaviour, in my view. It's that this game actually touches on issues of intimacy, of vulnerability, and of boundaries in a way that resonates with people (well in some cases, badly in others). Sex doesn't touch a nerve the way that intimacy does.

That's probably why I enjoy Hillside so much. The characters are _all_ seriously damaged in ways that feel real to me, even if the plot is a soap-operatic confection. The question is whether hopelessly damaged people can come together in a way that is partially restorative. At least in the cases of Charlotte or Lucy, and the MC, there's a chance that might be possible.

 

[Dragon59]

Which leads me to a theory about why the MC in Hillside creeps out so many players, despite the fact that the game has almost no actual creepy behavior in the most obvious senses: no sleep sex, hell... almost no actual sex with any of the LIs, Lucy excepted. Literally 80% of games on this site feature more disturbing behaviour, in my view. It's that this game actually touches on issues of intimacy, of vulnerability, and of boundaries in a way that resonates with people (well in some cases, badly in others). Sex doesn't touch a nerve the way that intimacy does.

"Hmmm.... No sleep sex? There's somethin' wrong with that boy!"