Recommending Story-first games

[EndlessNights]

I recently did a new Dog Days of Summer playthrough and I'm curious what people here think of it. As was the case in previous playthroughs, I find myself having very mixed feelings about it because there are about as many things I dislike about the game as I like.

For the uninitiated, the MC of the game is Vivian, a college student who at the start of the game is reassessing who she is and what she wants out of life. Most significantly, she is becoming increasingly aware of her attraction to women. Hijinks are sure to ensue!

The most unique aspect of the game is definitely the branching which is so extensive that almost every playthrough feels unique. Good Girl Gone Bad was obviously a huge inspiration for the game...to the point that you'll likely find certain characters uncannily familiar if you've already played GGGB. Our very own bacienvu laboriously created a walkthrough for the game that you should definitely take a look at if you have any doubt about the game's complexity (or just need help).

In addition to the impressive branching, I appreciate how several of the characters are written and the believable college setting. Viv is a very relatable main character who is easy to root for particularly during those times when she is facing down her own fears and overcoming self-doubt and inertia. Characters like Desiree and Evaline in their best moments feel like real people I could have met on campus back in the day. The game does a pretty decent job of depicting university life compared to so many AVNs where colleges seem more like high schools.

I've decided I would've liked Dog Days a lot better if it were more grounded. The moments in the game I enjoy the most are just Vivian being Vivian: hanging out with friends, soberly and sometimes melancholily contemplating her life and worrying about the future, and wandering around campus doing college student stuff. The slice of life material tends to be quite well-written and enjoyable when it appears. On the other hand, the GGGB style over the top scenarios often feel forced and uncomfortable here when they occur. For instance, Vivian can help another student write a paper for a class she's struggling with. Depending on your choices, the teacher for the class notices the student's improvement, suspects Vivian's involvement, and then decides Viv needs some mentoring so she can become a domme with a harem of her own. WTF?! That said, like GGGB it can be entertaining to see the surprising turns the story can take and the unexpected significance of some of our choices in the game.

DDS also loves putting intrusive sexual thoughts into Vivian's head whether it fits the moment or not. For example, at one point in the game Viv's best friend Desiree, genuinely distraught over breaking up with her boyfriend, sleeps over for a night seeking support and comfort. Viv pretty much constantly pervs out over Des during the sleepover which considering the circumstances basically makes it seem like she doesn't really give a shit about Des as a person. It would've been so much better if Viv had had a stray sexual thought and dismissed it so she could worry about and care for her friend in her time of need. Somehow, though, the Des route still ended up becoming my favorite.

On that note, the game could IMO also use more characters who aren't love interests or fuckable who could contribute to the story in other ways. DDS like a lot of other lesbian games creates a world where most characters are lesbian or bi women and all tend to be very interested in the MC given the right choices. There's certainly nothing wrong with fantasy in AVNs, but I think the story would've been improved if Vivian had a few friends and family members who weren't romantic options. It would have been interesting to see her navigate through and interact with heteronormative society while at the same time also connecting with the queer community to find love, solidarity, and/or hookups. Alas, there probably wouldn't be any sapphic sororities in that version of the game...

Even with all the branching, I found myself sometimes wishing for choices that weren't there. I would've liked to avoid the supercilious, supernatural Tara altogether instead of having to watch her order Viv around. Also, it would've been nice if we could indicate the MC doesn't see her mom as a potential LI instead of having intrusive thoughts about her regardless of choices (the route isn't forced, just the thoughts). There are also a lot of routes I had no interest in playing because I disliked the characters involved, they conflicted with my idea of who Viv was a person, or I didn't like how they were set up.

My friend Kali wrote an interesting review of the game that's well worth reading. I'm not quite on board with her critique of the MC's appearance (though I did rather like Viv's pre-makeover look better and her new wardrobe is definitely a bit out there in typical AVN fashion), but she's absolutely right on about the lack of proofreading in the game and makes a number of other really good points. The typos and misspellings, a few of which are so extreme that you might not even understand what word was actually meant, are ever-present and glaring. It's quite surprising to see given the loving care that's shown in other aspects of the game design such as the branching and the rendering (because Viv's appearance can be modified at certain points, many scenes actually have multiple versions).

 

[jufot]

over the top scenarios often feel forced and uncomfortable here when they occur.

This was my main complaint the last time I tried it, quite a while ago. These scenarios happen so frequently that they make a mess of the whole game. There is no narrative integrity, no plot, or really any sort of point to the game. What little downtime the game has feels merely like connective tissue for the horny scenes.

I can't help but agree with Kali's review, especially this bit:

Yet another issue with this (for me at least) is that it's very clearly a lesbian focused story, written by a man. Firstly, the whole thing is written in the third person, which is a very odd choice. Also. almost every time something even vaguely stimulating happens to the MC, it's almost immediately commented on at how wet she's getting. Sorry to burst any bubbles here but it doesn't work that way (most of the time anyhow). Take a look at the lesbian routes in games written by women and you'll see a variety of ways to convey feminine arousal that doesn't equate to someone activating the sprinkler system in her undies. A change to the first person would be a big improvement, as would a greater variety of language being used to convey arousal.

To be fair, most VNs have obnoxious /r/menwritingwomen vibes. But some are worse than others, and it's definitely the case here. It's the downside of writing about something you know nothing of (women's sexuality) and have no real-life experience (read: sex) to draw from.

 

[noping123]

To be fair, most VNs have obnoxious /r/menwritingwomen vibes

I can't help it - every time I see something like this, I'm immediately reminded of this scene:

 

[Raife]

To be fair, most VNs have obnoxious /r/menwritingwomen vibes. But some are worse than others, and it's definitely the case here. It's the downside of writing about something you know nothing of (women's sexuality) and have no real-life experience (read: sex) to draw from.

Ooooooh man. Some are reeeeeeeellll bad. Far too many devs write sex scenes that seem to draw exclusively on pornhub for inspiration. That tends to produce absurd scenes, and even worse depictions of arousal (male and female, especially the latter).

To be clear, I'm not making a dumb intersectional claim that only female devs can depict female arousal convincingly. That's BS. But, as you say, some depictions are so idiotic and unrealistic that it feels as if the creator has barely spoken to a woman, let alone had sex with one.

It might be better to focus on the good end of the spectrum, though... effective, semi-realistic depictions of arousal. The first scene in _A Long Journey_, for example, had quite realistic foreplay and arousal; it was genuinely hot. It would be great to see more scenes like that.

 

[Raife]

I can't help it - every time I see something like this, I'm immediately reminded of this scene:

Jack is the best! Here,

You must be registered to see the links

BTW -- Your new game is much better than _Alive_... which was also fun to play. It would be interesting to hear, at some point, what you learned from your first effort and how you're trying to apply it.

I'm particularly enjoying your narrative construction... it's creative and interesting... as well as how you chose to begin your plot.

Looking forward to Chapter 3.

 

[camube]

I recently did a new Dog Days of Summer playthrough and I'm curious what people here think of it. As was the case in previous playthroughs, I find myself having very mixed feelings about it because there are about as many things I dislike about the game as I like.

For the uninitiated, the MC of the game is Vivian, a college student who at the start of the game is reassessing who she is and what she wants out of life. Most significantly, she is becoming increasingly aware of her attraction to women. Hijinks are sure to ensue!

The most unique aspect of the game is definitely the branching which is so extensive that almost every playthrough feels unique. Good Girl Gone Bad was obviously a huge inspiration for the game...to the point that you'll likely find certain characters uncannily familiar if you've already played GGGB. Our very own bacienvu laboriously created a walkthrough for the game that you should definitely take a look at if you have any doubt about the game's complexity (or just need help).

In addition to the impressive branching, I appreciate how several of the characters are written and the believable college setting. Viv is a very relatable main character who is easy to root for particularly during those times when she is facing down her own fears and overcoming self-doubt and inertia. Characters like Desiree and Evaline in their best moments feel like real people I could have met on campus back in the day. The game does a pretty decent job of depicting university life compared to so many AVNs where colleges seem more like high schools.

I've decided I would've liked Dog Days a lot better if it were more grounded. The moments in the game I enjoy the most are just Vivian being Vivian: hanging out with friends, soberly and sometimes melancholily contemplating her life and worrying about the future, and wandering around campus doing college student stuff. The slice of life material tends to be quite well-written and enjoyable when it appears. On the other hand, the GGGB style over the top scenarios often feel forced and uncomfortable here when they occur. For instance, Vivian can help another student write a paper for a class she's struggling with. Depending on your choices, the teacher for the class notices the student's improvement, suspects Vivian's involvement, and then decides Viv needs some mentoring so she can become a domme with a harem of her own. WTF?! That said, like GGGB it's interesting to see the surprising turns the game can take and the unexpected significance of some of our choices in the game.

DDS also loves putting intrusive sexual thoughts into Vivian's head whether it fits the moment or not. For instance, Viv's best friend Desiree crashes at her bestie's place when she is distraught over breaking up with her boyfriend. Our MC's horniness levels hit the roof which in the moment basically makes it seem like she doesn't give a shit about Des as a person. It would've been so much better if Viv had had a stray sexual thought and dismissed it so she could worry about and care for her friend in her time of need. Somehow, though, the Des route still ended up becoming my favorite.

On that note, the game could IMO also use more characters who aren't love interests or fuckable who could contribute to the story in other ways. DDS like a lot of other lesbian games creates a world where most characters are lesbian or bi women and all tend to be very interested in the MC given the right choices. There's certainly nothing wrong with fantasy in AVNs, but I think the story would've been improved if Vivian had a few friends and family members who weren't romantic options. It would have been interesting to see her navigate through and interact with heteronormative society while at the same time also connecting with the queer community to find love, solidarity, and/or hookups. Alas, there probably wouldn't be any sapphic sororities in that version of the game...

Even with all the branching, I found myself sometimes wishing for choices that weren't there. I would've liked to avoid the supercilious, supernatural Tara altogether instead of having to watch her order Viv around. Also, it would've been nice if we could indicate the MC doesn't see her mom as a potential LI instead of having intrusive thoughts about her regardless of choices (the route isn't forced, just the thoughts).

My friend Kali wrote an interesting review of the game that's well worth reading. I don't entirely agree with her critique of the MC's appearance (though I did rather like Viv's pre-makeover look better and her new wardrobe is definitely a bit out there in typical AVN fashion), but she's absolutely right on about the lack of proofreading in the game and makes a number of other really good points. The typos and misspellings, a few of which are so extreme that you might not even understand what word was actually meant, are ever-present and glaring. It's quite surprising given the loving care that's shown in other aspects of the game design such as the branching and the rendering (because Viv's appearance can be modified at certain points, many scenes actually have multiple versions).

i've been thinking about something related to this for the past several months.

In order for devs to make $ from patreon, they need to attract patrons that are willing to continuously pay month after month during the game development.
While updates are theoretically always a payday for the devs, having loyal patrons that pays month over month i think might be extremely important.

For the past several months I was thinking which games i will drop and which game i want to still pay. It got me thinking what are the considerations for me to drop patreon support. And I reached a personal conclusion that it is based on how much I want to see the game continues.

From there I see that broadly there are 2 types of how renpy AVN games attract patrons.

Those that attract patrons through it's story. Where patron's focus is to see the story continuation. An example of this would be Deluca Family that despite not having that much scenes so far with the main cast.

The second is those that attracts patrons through it's sexiness. One of the major example of this for me is Summer Heat. Despite having 5 releases, there are very little story s of yet. Patrons are not sustaining it to see it's story, it's because it's hot.

I can't comment on Dog Days of Summer specifically because I haven't play it but taking EndlessNights comment about the existence of tonal shift between the ongoing story and then abrupt jump to lewdness is applicable to the average games that I've played.

Take Arson Betrayal. While there are scenes that does make narrative sense and adds to the story, other scenes doesn't have to be there. Almost none of Deluca's scenes with the side characters needs to exist. And not all Projekt Passion's scenes adds to the story either. The scenes exist because sexy scenes are needed to attract patrons of the second category.
These 3 are all games that actually have a story to tell.

On the opposite side of this 3 games, despite Eternum having a story to tell, it decides to lean really heavily towards presenting sexiness first, Even to the point that the narration itself takes a backseat.

There are also games that managed to put both story and sexiness equally upfront where the sexiness adds to the narrative and the story works better because there is sex in it. The 2 element adds to each other and thus manage to attract both patron category.

There are very few games I've played so far that are equally strong on both ends like this.
I think those that are, the settings of the story mainly revolves around sex. Pale Carnations being the single biggest example of this because the story itself is about lewdness, front and center. "College games" genre being another example of this with BaDIK being the most successful.
I would say Our Red String manage to both tell a simple story and the sexiness really adds to the story too.
It's a major improvement compared to Good Girls Gone Bad with regards to it's story development too.

I think there is something to be said here on how developers
might need to construct believable settings of the story where the settings could then manage to put both "a story to tell" and sexiness equally front and center, and thus hopefully cast a wider net of patrons ensuring game development continuations.

There are many games where I think sexiness is not needed within the story.

Unraveling August is still entertaining to read based on how the character's lines are written, and the game would actually be better story-wise if Chapter 1 does not happen the way it did (one of the 2 sister is outwardly lewd towards the MC).
For Unraveling August, it actually feels "jarring". And this jarring feelings or a tonal whiplash is probably what EndlessNights means for Dog Days of Summer.
There are renpy AVN games where it's narrative would actually be better if it's less sexy.

Chapter 1 is actually a detriment to Unraveling August's narrative, and so does Ch 1 of Arson Betrayal too. Neither does Mad World need almost any of the scenes we got. And for Deluca, it needs no scenes at all.
The story to all these still works even without most of the scenes.

I hope in the future there are more games that manage to make both elements equally essential to the game so it could attract the widest net of patrons. Because so far, there aren't that many from my view.

 

[Slick Bean]

Here is the thing:
- we all enjoy Sandra Brown levels of erotica in all our shows, everywhere.
Producers and Directors and Screen Writers write all the dialogues for all the cast members in all the shows
that they are paid to write - either a male, a female or another gender of their choosing, the writer will
ALWAYS WRITE CHARACTERS THAT FAR EXCEED THEiR RANGE OF EMPIRICAL LIFE EXPERIENCE.

Based on all of the above, your absolutely dead horse beating some games and their devs on the prejudice that:
Oh, they are not the gender of some of their characters, therefore they have written them wrong,
they are garbage, Reeeeee!!!!
is incomprehensible in all aspects of showbusiness, screen/book/novel/comic writing
or game making today. Made up characters absolutely not out of self experience make up the vast majority of
the charcaters in any book or novel or show you have ever seen or read.

I can't help it - every time I see something like this, I'm immediately reminded of this scene:

Ooooooh man. Some are reeeeeeeellll bad. Far too many devs write sex scenes that seem to draw exclusively on pornhub for inspiration. That tends to produce absurd scenes, and even worse depictions of arousal (male and female, especially the latter).

To be clear, I'm not making a dumb intersectional claim that only female devs can depict female arousal convincingly. That's BS. But, as you say, some depictions are so idiotic and unrealistic that it feels as if the creator has barely spoken to a woman, let alone had sex with one.

It might be better to focus on the good end of the spectrum, though... effective, semi-realistic depictions of arousal. The first scene in _A Long Journey_, for example, had quite realistic foreplay and arousal; it was genuinely hot. It would be great to see more scenes like that.

Jack is the best.

BTW -- Your new game is much better than _Alive_... which was also fun to play. It would be interesting to hear, at some point, what you learned from your first effort and how you're trying to apply it.

I'm particularly enjoying your narrative construction... it's creative and interesting... as well as how you chose to begin your plot.

Looking forward to Chapter 3.

i've been thinking about something related to this for the past several months.

In order for devs to make $ from patreon, they need to attract patrons that are willing to continuously pay month after month during the game development.
While updates are theoretically always a payday for the devs, having loyal patrons that pays month over month i think might be extremely important.

For the past several months I was thinking which games i will drop and which game i want to still pay. It got me thinking what are the considerations for me to drop patreon support. And I reached a personal conclusion that it is based on how much I want to see the game continues.

From there I see that broadly there are 2 types of how renpy AVN games attract patrons.

Those that attract patrons through it's story. Where patron's focus is to see the story continuation. An example of this would be Deluca Family that despite not having that much scenes so far with the main cast.

The second is those that attracts patrons through it's sexiness. One of the major example of this for me is Summer Heat. Despite having 5 releases, there are very little story s of yet. Patrons are not sustaining it to see it's story, it's because it's hot.

I can't comment on Dog Days of Summer specifically because I haven't play it but taking EndlessNights comment about the existence of tonal shift between the ongoing story and then abrupt jump to lewdness is applicable to the average games that I've played.

Take Arson Betrayal. While there are scenes that does make narrative sense and adds to the story, other scenes doesn't have to be there. Almost none of Deluca's scenes with the side characters needs to exist. And not all Projekt Passion's scenes adds to the story either. The scenes exist because sexy scenes are needed to attract patrons of the second category.
These 3 are all games that actually have a story to tell.

On the opposite side of this 3 games, despite Eternum having a story to tell, it decides to lean really heavily towards presenting sexiness first, Even to the point that the narration itself takes a backseat.

There are also games that managed to put both story and sexiness equally upfront where the sexiness adds to the narrative and the story works better because there is sex in it. The 2 element adds to each other and thus manage to attract both patron category.

There are very few games I've played so far that are equally strong on both ends like this.
I think those that are, the settings of the story mainly revolves around sex. Pale Carnations being the single biggest example of this because the story itself is about lewdness, front and center. "College games" genre being another example of this with BaDIK being the most successful.
I would say Our Red String manage to both tell a simple story and the sexiness really adds to the story too.
It's a major improvement compared to Good Girls Gone Bad with regards to it's story development too.

I think there is something to be said here on how developers
might need to construct believable settings of the story where the settings could then manage to put both "a story to tell" and sexiness equally front and center, and thus hopefully cast a wider net of patrons ensuring game development continuations.

There are many games where I think sexiness is not needed within the story.

Unraveling August is still entertaining to read based on how the character's lines are written, and the game would actually be better story-wise if Chapter 1 does not happen the way it did (one of the 2 sister is outwardly lewd towards the MC).
For Unraveling August, it actually feels "jarring". And this jarring feelings or a tonal whiplash is probably what EndlessNights means for Dog Days of Summer.
There are renpy AVN games where it's narrative would actually be better if it's less sexy.

Chapter 1 is actually a detriment to Unraveling August's narrative, and so does Ch 1 of Arson Betrayal too. Neither does Mad World need almost any of the scenes we got. And for Deluca, it needs no scenes at all.
The story to all these still works even without most of the scenes.

I hope in the future there are more games that manage to make both elements equally essential to the game so it could attract the widest net of patrons. Because so far, there aren't that many from my view.

This is what writing a compelling story is like - you write outta your immagination, not outta your experience,
that legal babble that ”the characters and their stories are pure fiction and are not based on real people”
should be self explained in any type of writing ever - you read what the author believes the story they want to tell,
to be, never what the story actually is, that would mean reporting and actual reporter work nobody ever is expected
to do for their screen writing / novel writing / book writing / comic writing / erotica writing gig.

 

[camube]

Here is the thing:
- we all enjoy Sandra Brown levels of erotica in all our shows, everywhere.
Producers and Directors and Screen Writers write all the dialogues for all the cast members in all the shows
that they are paid to write - either a male, a female or another gender of their choosing, the writer will
ALWAYS WRITE CHARACTERS THAT FAR EXCEED THEiR RANGE OF EMPIRICAL LIFE EXPERIENCE.

Based on all of the above, your absolutely dead horse beating some games and their devs on the prejudice that:
Oh, they are not the gender of some of their characters, therefore they have written them wrong,
they are garbage, Reeeeee!!!!
is incomprehensible in all aspects of showbusiness, screen/book/novel/comic writing
or game making today. Made up characters absolutely not out of self experience make up the vast majority of
the charcaters in any book or novel or show you have ever seen or read.





This is what writing a compelling story is like - you write outta your immagination, not outta your experience,
that legal babble that ”the characters and their stories are pure fiction and are not based on real people”
should be self explained in any type of writing ever - you read what the author believes the story they want to tell,
to be, never what the story actually is, that would mean reporting and actual reporter work nobody ever is expected
to do for their screen writing / novel writing / book writing / comic writing / erotica writing gig.

is the intoxicating flavor good?

 

[EndlessNights]

This was my main complaint the last time I tried it, quite a while ago. These scenarios happen so frequently that they make a mess of the whole game. There is no narrative integrity, no plot, or really any sort of point to the game. What little downtime the game has feels merely like connective tissue for the horny scenes.

I had the thought that DDS might actually be worse from my perspective if the plot did make more sense because that would almost certainly involve a heavy lean into the supernatural to explain away some of the craziness. We might find out Viv is essentially a puppet in Tara's fantasies and that Tara used her powers to both change the MC's sexuality and make her irresistible to other women. I have a low tolerance for any type of forced sexuality change (or really any apparent change in orientation that isn't the end result of introspection and self-acceptance) so that would have ruined the story for me.

To be fair, most VNs have obnoxious /r/menwritingwomen vibes. But some are worse than others, and it's definitely the case here. It's the downside of writing about something you know nothing of (women's sexuality) and have no real-life experience (read: sex) to draw from.

I think part of the problem is that in AVNs women (particularly female MCs) are often depicted as hypersexual beings by nature rather than as individuals with their own unique turn-ons, body eccentricities, and approaches to their sexuality. Vivian gets horny being around women -- any woman, really, and in just about any set of circumstances -- and as Kali said she tends to get predictably aroused in the same exact way in any vaguely stimulating situation. While I wouldn't call Dog Days a hard corruption game by any means (at least not based on the routes I've played so far), Viv is not so far removed from the typical straight heroine of a corruption game who starts out prudish and ends up attracted to fat guys, old guys, guys with extremely annoying personalities...basically any man with a pulse. These types of characters essentially get turned on by sex in general and end up with no real individual tastes, preferences, kinks, or quirks.

That's a shame because those individual differences in sexuality -- all those little things that turn some people on and some people off and help create the wide, unpredictable, and incredibly varied galaxy of human sexual behavior -- are fascinating and very much worthy of examination.

That said, the branching in Dog Days of Summer at least gives the player a good deal of freedom to roleplay Vivian as they see her. You can't shut off the intrusive, horny thoughts, but you can definitely play her as someone who would only have sex with someone she genuinely cares about or someone who is mostly attracted to older women or someone who tends to say "No" to everything. Now I'm curious if there's any unique content for a celibate run...

 

[Slick Bean]

The name of the game tells the story right there - those well selected dogging days in the life of a floozy
turned from some ordinary slut who is horny and thinks horny thoughts and her path to becoming the
fullhardy fearless town bycicle who is not afraid to eat boys, girls, men and granps alike.

Viv is not so far removed from the typical straight heroine of a corruption game who starts out prudish and ends up attracted to fat guys, old guys, guys with extremely annoying personalities...basically any man with a pulse. These types of characters essentially get turned on by sex in general and end up with no real individual tastes or preferences.

We have to realise the promoting force behind all games around here- sex.
The stories here would not make much sense about a career woman refusing sex, would they?
Not to mention most women IRL have males all round them they can effectively jump on for sex,
while men doing it especially after #MeToo is a hard miss rather than a hit on so many levels.

That's a shame because those individual differences in sexuality -- the little things that turn some people on and some people off -- are fascinating and very much worthy of examination.

There are very different sexual drives in women who want to hook up, dog, man eat:
Meredith Grey does it in her pilot episode of her hit medical drama and it does not cheapen it.
It is still dogging, people that do not care to know or ever hear eachother again just sex and then part ways,
purposefully for ever to become and remain strangers for the duration of their lives.

You can't shut off the intrusive, horny thoughts, but you can definitely play her as someone who would only have sex with someone she genuinely cares about or someone who is mostly attracted to older women or someone who tends to say "No" to everything.

There are thousands if not tens of thousends of video sex girls who are either straight, gay, bi or trans in their activities,
who do have sex on their mind all the time, who do have extra sensitive genitalia and do make themselves
do ahegao and all sorts a sexual body reactions to whatever stimuli they rehearse train for in their day to day sex jobs.

The Intoxicating Flavor. The story is definitely interesting and could go in many directions.
The sex scenes are slightly contrived but never forced.

Do check out The Intoxicating Flavor: easy to get onboard with and get to like the story,
peeling back the compex many layers of the relationships of the people in the game.
There is some supernatural element, which is only the added bonus for the story.
[/QUOTE]

is the intoxicating flavor good?

I would say it is marvelous, with action and tension and complex character dynamics to engage in.

 

[noping123]

Jack is the best! Here,

You must be registered to see the links

BTW -- Your new game is much better than _Alive_... which was also fun to play. It would be interesting to hear, at some point, what you learned from your first effort and how you're trying to apply it.

I'm particularly enjoying your narrative construction... it's creative and interesting... as well as how you chose to begin your plot.

Looking forward to Chapter 3.

Honestly? Not too much. On the artwork side of things (lighting, putting it all together, scene composition, all that stuff) plenty. On the writing side of things? Not much. The main difference I'd say in the two is, Alive - writing wise - was a very quick project. While I wrote the dialogue chapter by chapter (And still do), the story took about 3 days to write in it's entirety. This project was written over the course of a couple years. The initial idea was fairly quick, but it was slowly written, iterated on, and "perfected" over the course of years. Even when I finally committed to the story, I still took quite a bit of time re-working certain sections and just making sure it "worked".

I'm sure there's plenty I subconsciously picked up on over time, but I can't say there's really anything I am consciously thinking about or going "I need to make sure I did this" or "Don't wanna make that mistake again!" or anything like that.

The other difference I'd say is, the narrative structure of this one allows me to do certain things - and do them in a way - that I was a bit more restricted on previously. The downside of that is, it's quite a bit of work. Even in chapter 2, there are quite a few scenes and bits that you can miss depending on your decisions. (With one important exception, pretty much every scene can potentially be seen in one, but many of them are also missable/skippable). There's also a number of slight variations on scenes - again, depending on choices. You should see what I have for Ch3 already... I'm convinced anyone else looking at it besides me would be utterly and completely confused.

Don't get me wrong, I *like* the way I'm doing it, but it does occasionally become daunting when I look at just how much work is ahead. That said, I just today finished writing what I believe is simultaneously the funniest, and most juvenile scene I've ever written. I'm sure there's only like 20 people ever who will laugh at it, but hey. I find it hilarious!

 

[kotte]

For those of us that liked The Entrepreneur, Mister Maya has just released a demo of their new project,

You must be registered to see the links

.

And yes, it's in a school setting (doh!) which is not the most appreciated genre by the people in this thread. I guess it's because we are a bunch of old geezers that prefer to be reminded of how it was to be 40, rather than how it was to be 20...

Still, I liked The Entrepreneur, so I am definitely going to give it the benefit of the doubt.

 

[jufot]

Still, I liked The Entrepreneur, so I am definitely going to give it the benefit of the doubt.

Agreed. I'm wary and a bit tired of late-teens underwear models in school settings, but the dev did a fairly good job with The Entrepreneur so it's worth giving it a shot.

 

[Raife]

The other difference I'd say is, the narrative structure of this one allows me to do certain things - and do them in a way - that I was a bit more restricted on previously. The downside of that is, it's quite a bit of work.

I'm enjoying NSL a great deal. It's easier for me to roleplay than your last effort, since the MC's attitude and motivations are more transparent than they were in _Alive_.

The way you chose to begin your plot was creative. Has reaction been positive so far? I think you deserve credit for taking a bit of a risk.

My first playthrough is on the Clara path, but I'm already wondering about alternative routes. It sounds like there's quite a bit of branching.

 

[noping123]

I'm enjoying NSL a great deal. It's easier for me to roleplay than your last effort, since the MC's attitude and motivations are more transparent than they were in _Alive_.

The way you chose to begin your plot was creative. Has reaction been positive so far? I think you deserve credit for taking a bit of a risk.

My first playthrough is on the Clara path, but I'm already wondering about alternative routes. It sounds like there's quite a bit of branching.

Honestly, the opening was.... it was the first thing I thought of and the entire idea that sparked the story from front to back. I wrote the prologue in a sort of firestorm of a day a long time ago, and then built the entire story from there. Years of iterating (and MANY changes from the original!) to arrive at what I have now, and honestly I'm very happy with it. I know a few parts later on will be a bit challenging, but it's also exciting thinking about what's to come, and the story I get to tell.

Reaction has been very positive, albeit limited. I am curious what people say about C2 once it hits this site - tbh I'm surprised it hasn't yet, given how quickly C1 did.

Right now there is already a TON of branching. For example, if you stick to purely Clara, there isn't too much (Honestly, if you were the MC would you rush into that? There's a LOT to unpack with her, and it'll take time.) going on with "her" story, and much is more around the main story, and you end up missing quite a lot. Of course a lot of the "missed" content in C2 would be very Alice-centric, but that's mostly by design. (I'll note at this time: Alice is not my favorite character, but she *IS* my favorite to write for - mostly because her personality and her story allow her to be a bit more free than many others who tend to be bound by their own circumstances).

on a completely different note: One thing I'm also curious about is - how many people pick up on... I obviously won't spoil for anyone who hasn't played it, but I'm sure you at least are aware of the final scene in C2. There was a (very brief, blink and you miss it) foreshadow of that all the way back in the prologue. I wonder A: how many people will pick up on that, and B: how many of the other very small "blink and you miss it" things will end up overlooked.

 

[jufot]

I'll note at this time: Alice is not my favorite character, but she *IS* my favorite to write for - mostly because her personality and her story allow her to be a bit more free than many others who tend to be bound by their own circumstances

I haven't played C2 yet so can't comment on the foreshadowing, but Alice is definitely my favourite. Non-traditional people with counter cultural vibes are always more fun. In fiction and in real life

 

[jufot]

Mr. Georgie of Reunion fame has a new game called No Expectation. It's out publicly on

You must be registered to see the links

!

 

[Hildegardt]

I tried the "Law School" demo. Well... thinking back the first release of "The Entrepreneur" wasn't the best look either and that got turned around pretty quickly, so I don't want to be too harsh. But so far the new demo is generic af by f95zone standards. It's a collection of forum favourite tropes, which has sadly never been a recipe for good stories imo atleast.

Where "The Entrepreneur" was different, because it was an actual landlady game that didn't waste any time on pseudo incest tropes, "Law School" in comparison is playing it very very very save (HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR THE VIRGINAL CHILDHOOD FRIEND?!). It's one of the college games of all time.

 

[Slick Bean]

Why would MC be the only virgin never to have been chosen by any woman?

THE VIRGINAL CHILDHOOD FRIEND

This sory has the unique idea to band together birds of a feather, with a starting up low level MC. Entrepreneur was hign up there with MC full on money, full on jobs to coerce/corrupt girls with, he had the tropey tools assholes use IRL.

 

[camube]

wow i didn't know if we want to rate games on f95 we have to review it too

i dont wanna review i just wanna rate them. i guess i understand why it's designed that way but still.