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Recommending Story-first games

5.00 star(s) 8 Votes

Ezykeyal

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Game Developer
Dec 29, 2021
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Sure, kitbashing is already a step up from just taking the standard pre-made environments that are available. We're crafting something called Visual Novels here. Funnily enough, it has something to do with visuals. You tell half your story with it, and thus I'm of the opinion that it's in general in your best interest to make those visuals stand out as much as possible (which again has absolutely nothing to do with pride).

But unfortunately, this doesn't seem all worth doing if you're making a porno where no one cares so much about a story.
 

Slick Bean

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Sep 9, 2023
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Already had one go at a game where the dialogues did not go with the renders,
the dialogues pointed to things not being on screen.
On the other hand, taking a girl to a place you know as the back of your hand,
that park you remember, could be a very good setting for jokes in the game,
”I remember I saw This girl performing ... on some dude last year”
”there were girls meeting near the fountain where some old dude scared them to screams”
all sorts of digs that can go in the script stemming from - ”I saw the same park in my friends games”
and ”those scenes were going on in those other games” in this very park.
That's why it's the same damn park with the same benches in every. single. game.
 

Jaike

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Aug 24, 2020
1,622
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Okay, I guess my trope-based restatement of the NACGB platform caused a bit of a stir. EndlessNights said most of what I'd want to say. Simply put, one class of students being instructed in obviously the same classroom all day, usually by the same teacher, with a continuous morning-to-afternoon schedule. That doesn't feel like a university setting, so I'm going to pick up on that if you sell it as that.

I accept that assets and reworking them are a limit that can get burdensome, even if you used the same classroom and just changed some details to make them look like a different room in the same building and had a few different models for instructors, though I think there are workarounds. In fact, I think you could totally write a college story with that rings truer than the typical college VN.

I understand too that there are reasons for limiting the character cast for all kinds of reasons. Assets, writing, less people begging to make the new extra an LI, all that.

I want to underline too that I was trying to formulate my own aesthetic preference about actually existing college games and why I see most of the ones I played as not story-focused for setting reasons. NACGB is a joke in the debate if a game fits the criteria of this thread after all. It's not that you can't like them or that none of them fit in this thread, or that I expect a dev to cater to my likes.

Most college games aren't meant to be accurate or even plausibly realistic, colleges are just an easy way to have lots of LI's, student-teacher tropes, hot cheerleaders and that sort of thing.
That's a good point, but as a goal it's pretty killing for a game's story-first creds too.

And If I'm being REALLY honest, if you compare anything in these games to high school, it REALLY makes me wonder what sort of high school YOU went to.
I'd elaborate, but I got myself solemnly sworn to "no TMI" just a page ago. :sneaky:

But I compared the games to American high school movies, not my own school life.

Having participated in your polls, my guess is that you're not letting down the side.:cool:
I wanna avoid any misunderstanding here, my personal experience with corruption and foot fetish are zero. :unsure:

Unless they are as smart as you, Jaike,
You know, someone smarter than me would've like realised sooner that remarking you got busy is hardly "nailing" you "right in the goolies"!
 
Last edited:

Raife

Active Member
May 16, 2018
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You know, someone smarter than me would've like realised sooner that remarking you got busy is hardly "nailing" you "right in the goolies"!
Oh yes it is, since you were (justifiably) making fun of my various hypocrisies. :)

Here's Jaike. :LOL::cool:
 

camube

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2022
1,352
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none of the regulars here play BaDIK? just me?

the latest episode of BaDIK has far too many minigames i don't feel like replaying other routes. It manages to actually dampen my excitement of playing multiple routes due to the sheer amount of time needed to replay the minigames.
 

yossa999

Engaged Member
Dec 5, 2020
2,400
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none of the regulars here play BaDIK? just me?

the latest episode of BaDIK has far too many minigames i don't feel like replaying other routes. It manages to actually dampen my excitement of playing multiple routes due to the sheer amount of time needed to replay the minigames.
I'm not that much of a regular here, but I feel the same way. And I think after one or two playthroughs I've seen 70% of the entire update, so the other branches become less interesting since I've already played most of them.
 
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jamdan

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Sep 28, 2018
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none of the regulars here play BaDIK? just me?

the latest episode of BaDIK has far too many minigames i don't feel like replaying other routes. It manages to actually dampen my excitement of playing multiple routes due to the sheer amount of time needed to replay the minigames.
I quit playing BaDIK 1-2 years ago for similar reasons.

It's the only game I've ever dropped because it got too big. The minigames (even though I had disabled them) and the free roaming segments made me not want to replay either. It's just too much of a hassle.
 
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camube

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Jun 4, 2022
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I'm not that much of a regular here, but I feel the same way. And I think after one or two playthroughs I've seen 70% of the entire update, so the other branches become less interesting since I've already played most of them.
DPC went too far on the minigame of ep 10.

I understand making something solely on your own vision but given how long episode 9 and 10 took and how slow the plot is moving on episode 9 and 10, it makes me not want to replay the rest, at least not immediately.

If he doesn't pivot and release episode 11 quicker or have episode 11 storyline progress quicker, I'd probably not going to prioritize BaDIK's multiple routes anymore.

Maybe just 1 or 2 routes.

It's far too long a wait for far too little progress and the price for us players is having to go through those minigames. It took far too long to play the minigames.
 
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jufot

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May 15, 2021
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Thoughts on the latest No Such Luck?

Alice remains my favourite by far. Her "I don't let other people's opinion matter much. I do what want, say what I want, if someone don't like it? Fuck 'em." speech is very agreeable and part of her allure. I also like how she speaks fondly of past sexual experiences, which is rare for AVN LIs.

But my usual college game gripes were irritated once again. The scavenger hunt was excessively porny and felt out of place after chapter 1. I know noping warned about this, but the narrative established there came screeching to a halt here and I found it disorienting. Plot progression is one thing, but character development - in the "slowly getting to know each other" by hanging out sense - also slowed way down. Suddenly, casual nudity is everywhere and even the teachers are a-OK with it. It felt pornier than BaDIK! Or maybe this is the True American College Experience™ and I just lack the necessary background :)

Still, I'm enjoying this. I want to see the mob stuff developed a bit more, and Marie should be revisited, but overall it's a fun game.
 
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Slick Bean

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Sep 9, 2023
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We better make it quick to make our minds up about this game, because MC can easily cheat his way outta having the sex of his life with his established awesome GF before this same game kills her so fast we will have literal brain freeze trying to form other connections going forward into the gameplay.
Her "I don't let other people's opinion matter much. I do what want, say what I want, if someone don't like it? Fuck 'em." speech is very agreeable and part of her allure. I also like how she speaks fondly of past sexual experiences, which is rare for AVN LIs.
The girl talking fondly about sex this early in life, about sex with past partners, no less, would have cued you into the fact this game and these girls are looking to bang like it is their mission in life, otherwise there would be no casual talk about casual sex like the bycicle if they were not this quick to bang.

The scavenger hunt was excessively porny and felt out of place after chapter 1.
This is precisely how girls get to talk so freely and fondly about past sexual acts this early in life:
they are running through all the hoops to secure their next bang like they are running a marraton
and having routinely scheduled snack breaks designd for eating this or that MC - is their way of life.

It felt pornier than BaDIK! Or maybe this is the True American College Experience™ and I just lack the necessary background
 

Cskin Games

Formerly 'noping123'
Game Developer
Jun 24, 2021
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But my usual college game gripes were irritated once again. The scavenger hunt was excessively porny and felt out of place after chapter 1.
I am going to just note one thing, that you may or may not find interesting. When I was actually designing the hunt (As in picking out the tasks, all of that) I did quite a bit of research. Aside from recalling my own college days, I reached out to frat members at a number of different schools - I also referenced leaked scavenger hunt lists from some schools in years past.

90% of the items in that hunt? Either came *directly* from real-life lists, or suggestions from current/former frat members who mentioned having done similar things in the past. (Or in some cases items they considered adding next years list. Come to think of it, I had those discussions well back in the summer... I wonder if any of them made it in this year!) Then the other 10% was mostly "I have this random asset, I wonder if I could do something with it." (The duck is a good example of that).

The only real "fiction" here - was the entire faculty being totally ok with it. Normally it's a sort of a mini-game in itself trying to hide stuff from staff, I just did not feel like adding that as part of the plot - it made life easier to just say "Meh, faculty is ok with anything that isn't illegal". Oh there was one other bit of fiction. Normally these hunts are reserved exclusively for frat/sorority pledges and members (Which makes hiding it from staff a lot easier) - opening it up to the entire school doesn't happen too often, but you know...artistic license.
 

jufot

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May 15, 2021
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90% of the items in that hunt? Either came *directly* from real-life lists, or suggestions from current/former frat members who mentioned having done similar things in the past.
Ah, thanks for the insight! It's definitely my ignorance then. A campus wide student event with sexual items on the list is not something I have ever seen at any university. But I get that American frat culture is its own thing.

The only real "fiction" here - was the entire faculty being totally ok with it.
Right. Nowadays, I imagine it'd be a public scandal the moment faculty got wind of it.
 

Cskin Games

Formerly 'noping123'
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Jun 24, 2021
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Right. Nowadays, I imagine it'd be a public scandal the moment faculty got wind of it.
Actually, it was! One of the leaked lists I referenced (And pulled a number of items from) was directly from a leaked list from a sorority a few years back, that actually DID cause quite a scandal at the time.

In fact, there were a few items on that particular list even I said "Uh... yea, I think I'll pass. This seems too much like porn, and I don't have anything written I could use around that, so....".
 
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Vasin

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Nov 20, 2018
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Played first 2 chapters of NSL. It's pretty great.

The main character is definitely a step up from nothingburger of the previous game, and a sad sack done right, unlike, say, Summer's Gone protagonist, but there's still something lacking about him. Maybe it's just my general disdain towards a turd in the wind type of characters with no definite direction. I do like the way he looks which is unusual for an AVN.

What little there is of actual plot looks interesting so far, but it hasn't gone further than hints, so it's too early to say anything about. I do have high hopes after Alive.

Love interests, well, so far it's hard to tell who is an actual properly fleshed out LI and who's just a character. On one hand, I kind of like that as it lends interactions this natural sort of verisimilitude, but also maybe some kind of differentiation in the bios section would have been helpful. (Speaking of bios, it would be really cool if it was possible to view all versions of the text description for the character, not just the most recent snippet. It's not really helpful if I forgot who the character is to restate what they just said to me in a dialogue 1 minute ago)

UI and minigames are also a huge improvements compared to last time, although still quite janky, I enjoyed wordle and some poker.
 
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Cskin Games

Formerly 'noping123'
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Love interests, well, so far it's hard to tell who is an actual properly fleshed out LI and who's just a character. On one hand, I kind of like that as it lends interactions this natural sort of verisimilitude, but also maybe some kind of differentiation in the bios section would have been helpful. (Speaking of bios, it would be really cool if it was possible to view all versions of the text description for the character, not just the most recent snippet. It's not really helpful if I forgot who the character is to restate what they just said to me in a dialogue 1 minute ago)

Obviously I'm paying attention to this thread, as it's one I come back to even when it's NOT about my game! (A few I've played I never would have looked at before, so that's nice!)

All of that said - the bios is supposed to be mostly the MCs "Current thoughts" on people - which changes/updates as the story does - so as he learns more, they'd become more verbose. (Also it tends to be up to date so if you run into a character and go "who's that" you can check and be reminded of your most recent interaction with them).

THAT SAID - You just gave me an idea that I like, and I'll have to see if it's remotely possible to implement. I like the idea of maintaining a "History" of previous bios entries, so you can flip through them. Given how I've written the code for it so far it'd be difficult, and would definitely require re-working it (And some of the old ones are likely to be lost entirely for previous save games...) but going forward I'm going to look into the possibility of coding it so that a history is maintained, and you can flip through pages to see. This way you can see not just the MC's current thoughts on a character, but all of his previous/old ones as well. I don't however think it'll be possible to "recover" old history for CH1/2 save games. If it works the way I'm thinking, the saves themselves will be fine, but the bios from those 2 chapters won't be recoverable - having those as well, would require a new game. Not that there's a TON of info in those 2 chapters, since the MC is only just meeting/getting to know a lot of the characters, but still.

Coding-wise it's a task, but now that I'm actively thinking about it, it can probably be done in a few days. I'm definitely going to try to have that in for Ch3 and beyond.
 
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Ezykeyal

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Dec 29, 2021
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Frat houses generally exist both on and off campus. They're funded by various means which also usually determnies where they are. The college can own it for example. My story is not about that, at least, not in the sense you might expect.

And yes, I agree, there's 0 reason for a dev not to use morphs to create their unique characters at the very minimum.
 
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Ezykeyal

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Dec 29, 2021
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Yes, it can vary greatly. Some are in prestigious neo-classical structures, others in ugly brown-brick from 1960. Some are just a building, while others encompass a large campus.I build mine specifically not for pride (though ofcourse I'm proud of my work to a certain extend), but as a homage to one of the most over the top college films in history, "Animal House". Not many people picked up on it and mostly those that did, were of the older kind (Probably because the movie is rather old now). This building also happens to be a real university in Oregon.
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Cskin Games

Formerly 'noping123'
Game Developer
Jun 24, 2021
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Thanks. Gonna check your game later.

I've just asked because I know 0 about frat houses except for what I've seen in movies, TV shows, and games. They're a total alien concept in where I live. Even dorms aren't that common except in big public universities. Students normally will still live with their parents or, when not possible, rent a room, or join forces to rent a flat together.

It's funny also how things vary from country to country. There were no lockers in my school but there were many in my university (for rent). Also, the building's exteriors and the classes' interiors vary so much that you can't tell the difference between a high school and a university except for other factors, like, people usually wear uniforms in school; schools will usually also have elementary students, so you'll see very young people; there will be the name of the institution; but nothing in the building or classrooms that can distinguish them in most of the cases. Of course, in the case of universities with big campi, it's something noticeable, but there are also colleges and even small universities that are indistinguishable. But, since I live in an urban environment, some colleges will look more like business buildings than schools. It varies a lot.

Classrooms are also not decorated, except for kindergarten and, maybe elementary, so a high school classroom could pass as a college classroom easily (except that in uni I had some classes in an auditorium, but most classrooms were regular square ones with chairs with a table to write on; I think they used the auditoria because they were already there and there weren't events all the time, so, why not use it for classes too?).

Everything you said is.... pretty much the case. Or rather I should say, sometimes the case.

As with all things, with colleges, there's levels to it. There are local state schools, there are large universities, there's state schools, and there are all sorts of things inbetween.

Some schools are relatively small, nondescript, frat life is non-existent, and dorm housing is non-existent or very limited. (Local state schools usually fall into this category.) Then there's hybrid schools - usually the "State schools". It's sort of a mix of what you're thinking of and what you might see on TV - most students commute there and live nearby, frat life can exist but it's often limited, there is some limited dorm housing for students who choose to come from out of state but not too many, these schools tend to be the first level that have sports teams and stuff like that. (The local ones generally do not).

Then there's the major universities - these are a lot closer to the "TV" style of things. Generally lots of sports teams, lots of dorm housing since many students are not local, and frat life tends to be a bigger deal. These schools often tend to be more difficult to get into, and are often MUCH more expensive. ($30-90k/year is not uncommon depending on the school - the lower tier schools often cap out around 30k/yr, often lower, although it is definitely getting more expensive as time goes on). Many of these schools are privately owned as well - there's also a lot less of them - they're by far the rarest of the 3 major types.

The majority of time you'll see things in movie, TVs, and games, similar to the major university style - with the caveat that often it's much easier to get into in those works of fiction than it is in reality. (Either because of requirements the school has regarding either academic or athletic admissions, or just the pure cost of them). In reality, not a huge number of people go to those sort of schools - due to a combination of the more difficult admission requirements, and higher cost. Most people who attend college end up doing so either in local state schools (Many of which only offer 2 yr degrees, some extending to 4) - or the more accessible, and slightly less expensive state schools.

But the reason you'll see the major university style portrayed so often? Honestly, student life in the others is pretty fucking boring comparatively. Since there's limited frat life (if any), very little dorm housing, and often a limited focus on athletics, it tends to be a lot closer to what you'd expect from high school life than anything else.

Of course I only listed 3 major types - there's actually quite a bit more inbetween all of that, some that end up falling into multiple categories. But in the end we'll say this: The "College experience" portrayed in fiction, is often one not seen by a majority of people, since it tends to be limited to a certain type of university that not too many people attend. BUT what is portrayed, is often a lot closer to reality than you might expect - it's just not the reality for a majority of students.
 
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Ezykeyal

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Dec 29, 2021
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Dude! Amazing job! You have all the reasons to be proud of it! Did you also make the cars? How long did it take to do all this? And, if you don't mind asking, which software do you use to make these environments?
I don't mind, just hope I'm not poluting this thread and going off-topic too much. It took about 6 months. You're absolutely correct in saying it takes a long time and making development unfeasible, so I have to pick my battles carefully. I focus on making the larger and more impactful stuff. The campus grounds are featured all the time in many scenes. Same with the interiors like the dorms and the gym, so its worth spending a bit of time on. I buy all the smaller things like props and cars and use them to dress the scene (making a good car takes forever). I use 3D Studio Max to model assets, Substance Painter and Designer for textures and Unreal Engine 5 where it all comes together and light and render the scenes.
 
5.00 star(s) 8 Votes