Recommending Story-first games

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Slick Bean

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Sep 9, 2023
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Exactly. Which gets back to a point that someone made, and that Tlareo noted: sometimes (actually, most of the time) it's better to have a single LI (or just a pair) that are well-developed, rather than several that are poorly fleshed out.

Separate point: the Dresden novels create a brilliant model for a game MC. Dresden is essentially the opposite of the 'Chosen One' -- instead, he's the mouse that roars before he (regularly) gets squashed. It's a possible _LI_ who is arguably closest to 'Chosen One.' That's more interesting than the Joseph Campbell archetypal hero/hero's journey.
Well ... many NTR lovers around here adore absolutely zero developped vilains just shitting on one girl or some guy - the worse the rape/blackmail/maiming/dessecration - the better.

From the point of view of what kinksters want out of games where they just want to see the destruction of everyone and everything, sub zero abhorrent gibbrish is what they want.
 

kotte

Member
Feb 11, 2018
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318
This latest chapter really soured me from the sister. At first, she was a solid character with feasible concerns and feelings. Now, she turned into a dimwitted-yet-excitable puppy.
That is actually my only problem with the latest release!
I loved the wholesome scene when MC and Sis sits by the fire, comforting each other without a hint of incestous feelings. I liked the idea that the dev allows us to leer at her in the shower, but keeping the MC out of that completely, and by doing that they are separating the holy unity of the MC and the player...

And now suddenly she turned into this "dimwitted-yet-excitable puppy".

I truly hope that she can return to being an almost grown up, cool, sidekick to our MC, and that we can blame all the silliness in this episode on her being very nervous when incountering Neverwhere for the first time.

Anyway, this game is still definitely on my top 5 list, and I believe that it has kept the quality consistent over all current episodes.
 
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Raife

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May 16, 2018
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This game is still definitely on my top 5 list, and I believe that it has kept the quality consistent over all current episodes.
It's certainly worth playing. I have quite a few nits, but it's well produced, well-conceived, and has an interesting story.

My primary gripe is that it's just a couple ticks away from being great... and, annoyingly, those ticks are both very significant and quite easy to conceive.
 
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Tlaero

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Game Developer
Nov 24, 2018
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Question for the game devs on this thread:

I keep getting approached by devs who want to do a cross promotion on Patreon, but when I look into them, their games aren't anything that I'd want to play, much less recommend to my patrons. So, we've been turning them down. Do you folks do the same? How do you decide what to cross promote?

And a question for the people here who are patrons of any game (not just my patrons):

Am I being too uptight here? Should I be thinking, "Any promotion is good promotion" even if I don't really think that fans of my games would like the ones made by the devs who have been approaching me?

Tlaero
 
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camube

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2022
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Question for the game devs on this thread:

I keep getting approached by devs who want to do a cross promotion on Patreon, but when I look into them, their games aren't anything that I'd want to play, much less recommend to my patrons. So, we've been turning them down. Do you folks do the same? How do you decide what to cross promote?

And a question for the people here who are patrons of any game (not just my patrons):

Am I being too uptight here? Should I be thinking, "Any promotion is good promotion" even if I don't really think that fans of my games would like the ones made by the devs who have been approaching me?

Tlaero
I have few games that I consider "i need to clear space and play the update on release date" and if those devs do promotion on their patreon, i do check those other games (with the assumption that either the devs are friends or the devs find the promoted game's premise interesting).

If it doesn't interest you, maybe it may not interest your patron either.
 

Éama

Member
Apr 17, 2022
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And a question for the people here who are patrons of any game (not just my patrons):

Am I being too uptight here? Should I be thinking, "Any promotion is good promotion" even if I don't really think that fans of my games would like the ones made by the devs who have been approaching me?
Just because people play a different genre or style doesn't mean they wouldn't also enjoy yours. That being said, I think it makes most sense to share with developers where there is mutual appreciation, either for them as an artist or for the game. As a patron I don't want to be subjected to ads, but I try new games based on my appreciation for the one recommending it.
 

desmosome

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2018
6,131
14,145
I'll be a little surprised if you play the game to the end and still have the same list of complaints. I hope you'll at least keep playing through the Klaus fight. Superhuman is a game that is a bit of a slow burn in terms of world building and character development, and it also tends to alternate between really intense dramatic crescendos and more laid-back, slice of life sequences. I'm guessing you're probably in a low drama segment of the game at the moment and find yourself waiting for stuff to happen. It will. It definitely will.



The art is a hugely divisive issue in the Superhuman community. It's probably the number one thing people who don't like the game complain about. The good news for you is that WeirdWorld changes to a more mainstream style later in the game which you might like better (he plans to slowly update the entire game's art).

Personally, I can't say I share your criticism because I actually really like the original art style. It has a lot of character and personality which to me is more important in art than verisimilitude or technical perfection. I suppose it's a matter of taste at the end of the day, and I know many people will drop a game entirely if they don't enjoy the graphics so I would understand if it's just something you can never get used to.



I tend to think of the time management aspect as less a puzzle to solve in the most optimal way and more of a roleplaying opportunity. What people does the MC like to spend time with? What does he like to do? In other words, what sort of person is he? I don't recommend never training, but other than that have fun with it. The advantage of this gameplay approach is that if you don't like a particular character or a particular storyline you can avoid them to the extent the main story allows.

I'm not sure how far along you are, but some game days don't have every choice to spend time available. That doesn't mean it won't be available again later on necessarily. It's a more flexible and forgiving system than it might appear to be at first.



Shadow is a hugely popular character in the fandom so you're in good company. There are some great moments ahead for her so you already have at least one important reason to keep playing.

I can understand feeling neutral about most of the characters in the early going, though I'm a little concerned if you really have no opinion whatsoever about Ella. Superhuman tends to develop its characters slowly. You get their backstories and learn who they are gradually over the course of many conversations and often flashbacks. For instance, Liz and Amber are two of the characters you meet first in the game, but they've had a few of their best character-building moments in just the last few updates.



I'd say these two takes are purely early game impressions and I really don't think you'll continue to feel this way as you play through the game. The world building is quite intense and detailed, and you'll learn a lot about the setting later on. Quite possibly even more than you ever wanted to. I enjoy WeirdWorld's sense of humor, but the tone will grow grimmer, the atmosphere will be more intense, and there'll be fewer jokes as you go along.



I strongly disagree the game would be better as a kinetic novel. A big part of the reason I enjoy it so much is that it gives the player such stark moral choices. Characters will live and die based on what kind of person the MC is. Many fights can also be lost and the consequences for that can be extreme. One unusual aspect of the game is the existence of a multitude of dead ends -- these often give a lot of information about the world and the characters and tend to be very much worth playing. Being able to see what happens if the MC fails is fascinating in itself, but it also underscores the extreme dangers and the long odds he faces. (It's a good idea to save often.)
Been a while since I've visited, just reading through the pages. You make this game seem goddamn amazing lol. If you praise it this much, the writing must be quite good, but how's the sexual content? Mainly, I remember opting out of trying it because of my assumption that MC transforming into a female would be a big portion of the content.
 
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Raife

Active Member
May 16, 2018
613
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Am I being too uptight here? Should I be thinking, "Any promotion is good promotion" even if I don't really think that fans of my games would like the ones made by the devs who have been approaching me?
You're not being uptight. I tend to ignore cross promotions _precisely_ because the recommended games from devs that I like are so often subpar. Much worse than the devs' own games.

The fact that you're so choosy (ahem... not a snob, like jufot, just choosy :)) means that I'm much, much more likely to try out a game that you cross-promote.
 

kotte

Member
Feb 11, 2018
182
318
And a question for the people here who are patrons of any game (not just my patrons):

Am I being too uptight here? Should I be thinking, "Any promotion is good promotion" even if I don't really think that fans of my games would like the ones made by the devs who have been approaching me?
Since the good stuff/less good stuff ratio in this genre is so low, I am constantly looking for recommendations of new good games. But that also means that I always filter recommendations on the likelyhood that the fit me. I mean, that's why I spend most of my F95 time in this thread.

So if a great story-first creator recommends a game, I will most certainly take it more seriously than other tips.
And if the recommeded game is far from what that dev makes, I will be surprised and a bit disappointed.
But I mean, perhaps someone else loves it?

If I were you, I would draw the line on "do I feel I can say 'I recommend this' honestly?".
It doesn't have to be your type of game, it doesn't even have to be that great.
But I would have to feel that I could stand behind it.
 

noping123

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Jun 24, 2021
1,498
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Question for the game devs on this thread:

I keep getting approached by devs who want to do a cross promotion on Patreon, but when I look into them, their games aren't anything that I'd want to play, much less recommend to my patrons. So, we've been turning them down. Do you folks do the same? How do you decide what to cross promote?

And a question for the people here who are patrons of any game (not just my patrons):

Am I being too uptight here? Should I be thinking, "Any promotion is good promotion" even if I don't really think that fans of my games would like the ones made by the devs who have been approaching me?

Tlaero
I've never actually done a cross promotion - though I *HAVE* promoted other dev's games before.


It depends. I take into account if I tried it or not (I've only ever promoted a few games I haven't tried, but that's rare), whether or not I liked it, and if I didn't, what redeeming qualities it has.

For cross promotions though? I've never done any because I refuse to do that if I didn't play AND enjoy a game, and I require the other person did as well. Then most people have weird rules about it - like "You must have a similar patron count as me" ... why does that matter? If you enjoyed a game you should be happy to promote it regardless of their patron count, and you should be happy yours might reach a new audience, regardless of the size. It's a weird 'If im not getting enough out of it, fuck you" mentality I never understood. If it cost you something that's one thing - but it doesn't. And what if theirs is way bigger than yours? Are you gonna say no?

At the end of the day that sort of cross promotion is a good thing - It's always good to get more eyeballs on products, but I don't think it hurts to be careful about it either.


And on a related aside - I actually did promote YOUR game on reddit recently. Someone was asking for story focused games on reddit, and I mentioned yours (With the caveat that I've never played, but I've heard good things). Of course I promoted mine first, but hey. Just found it interesting that you asked this question like a day afterwards!
 

EndlessNights

Member
Jun 18, 2022
310
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Been a while since I've visited, just reading through the pages. You make this game seem goddamn amazing lol. If you praise it this much, the writing must be quite good, but how's the sexual content? Mainly, I remember opting out of trying it because of my assumption that MC transforming into a female would be a big portion of the content.
It's not a big portion at all -- just occasional side content and all FMC sex scenes are avoidable. You can also avoid a big chunk of FMC content by simply not playing the cheerleader side quest in the early game (if you're a minmaxer, though, this means missing out on a Skill point). The MC has shapeshifting abilities and his female version is just one of the forms he sometimes uses.

With regards to the cross promotion topic, I would say Tlaero should do whatever she feels most comfortable with even if that means saying no to absolutely everyone. I don't think it's a marketing must even if it can help, and I wouldn't expect a flood of new patrons on either side based on a single cross promotion. I've personally gotten a little weary of all the cameo appearances of well-known AVN characters like Jaye and Cece. It was cute at first, but now I tend to find it more immersion breaking than anything else. I prefer to think of every VN as existing in its own universe unless there's already a clear and well-established link between games (such as we see with the Elsaverse).

In general, I don't regard a cross promotion as indicating a dev's personal endorsement of a game unless it's directly presented as such. Instead, I tend to just assume it is a combination of marketing and friends doing each other favors. For instance, it's not unusual for a dev to promote another dev who has helped them in the past with coding problems or some other development issue. If I didn't care for a game Tlaero promoted, I'd never think, "I can't believe Tlaero is pushing this crap!" Instead, I'd be more like, "Awww, Tlaero is so nice to all her dopey little friends." :LOL: It would have much more weight if she wrote a long post about a game here and explained in detail why she liked it or recommended something to me personally.

Another point I want to make is that it's hard to predict who will like what so you shouldn't necessarily assume your audience wouldn't like something that is worlds apart from your own work if it is good in its own way. People who enjoy Tlaero games might also enjoy a wide variety of other, very different adult games. We're a tough group to pigeonhole. Our boy moskyx provides a good example of this phenomenon. When he's not translating Tlaero games or maintaining the (see, there's actually never a bad time to cross promote!), you can sometimes find him on here discussing games as diverse as WVM and What a Legend! which definitely aren't likely to make the list any time soon. Anyway, my point is that tastes vary widely and people can sometimes enjoy vastly different forms of art and entertainment so even very unlikely collaborations might be worth considering under some circumstances. There was even a cross promotion between Chasing Sunsets and The Adventurous Couple -- I can hardly think of two AVNs that are more different in terms of content and (I would assume) audience makeup.
 
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Tlaero

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Nov 24, 2018
1,034
5,080
Thak you noping123 for recommending one of my games! And thank you everyone for your insights on the cross promotion thing.

It's interesting that EndlessNights mentioned What a Legend, since that's one of the only games I've ever recommended to my patrons even though it's a harem game, and I don't care for those. The art and writing quality in the game is high enough to make me look past that little wrinkle.

But, in general, I'd be more interested in promoting the devs I see here on this thread than the ones who have been approaching me.

Tlaero
 

Shiva11

Newbie
Feb 8, 2018
48
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I'm going to try and say this without being too schmaltzy. Thank you jufot for giving us one of the best threads on this web site. I have had so many hours of enjoyment playing games recommended here that I never would have even tried if I had not seen them endorsed here. Bless you sir for all you have done and continue to do for us who have found our way here.
On another note, if any of you readers are not playing Corporate Culture you are missing probably the best game available on f95zone. It's not just because of the quality of the writing, the interesting characters or the compassion the author has for his characters. What particularly appeals to me is the way he/she uses pictures to tell us as much about the people as we learn from words they speak or from their actions.
Let me give two examples. Notice how the characters shoes tell us so much about them. The more important the person is in the EO company the nicer the shoes they wear - particularly the women. Compare the quality of Alice's shoes (best) with those of Emma (next best), Elsa and Vicky (third), and then other women like Lucy. You see it with the men as well but the author has a particular interest in women's shoes. I refer you also to the scenes involving women removing their shoes (or not removing them) in Edward's apartment. These shoes are telling us a lot.
Next example is one picture in the important scene where Elsa and Edward are talking in her Rover and she has promised to follow him to Texas if he is fired from EO. First she refuses to shake hands with him which tells something important about her and then there is this picture that shows her looking at him with such affection that it's impossible for me to believe that she does not have strong feelings for him.
screenshot0096.png
 

jufot

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2021
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the important scene where Elsa and Edward are talking in her Rover and she has promised to follow him to Texas if he is fired from EO [...] looking at him with such affection that it's impossible for me to believe that she does not have strong feelings for him.
Funny, my impression is the opposite. I think this is the only instance in the game where she isn't entirely honest with him. She's certainly not going to give up anything for Edward, let alone her life in London. I see that smile as something a lot simpler - Edward finally has some drive to do things instead of wallowing in his misery. That's progress she pushed him into. She's proud of herself, not him, hence the smile :)
 

Slick Bean

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Sep 9, 2023
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MERRy ChristMas and a happy new gaming year ... all avid readers of fan fics around here!

Do try and follow the story of these games, maybe, keeping the made up backstory of this or that babe still not revealed in game yet to the minimum, as even the greatest dev or writer cannot keep going in circles around all these fan fics where players would fill their wild fantasy with a lotta thoughts that have never even come close to what the babes are like in the minds of their creators, let alone being even the slightest consistent with what the action is shown to be going towards on the small screen.
 
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EndlessNights

Member
Jun 18, 2022
310
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I'm going to try and say this without being too schmaltzy. Thank you jufot for giving us one of the best threads on this web site. I have had so many hours of enjoyment playing games recommended here that I never would have even tried if I had not seen them endorsed here. Bless you sir for all you have done and continue to do for us who have found our way here.
Hear, hear! On that note, I wanted to wish a happy holiday season to jufot and the rest of the gang. I'm looking forward to many more great discussions on here in the new year.

Some news of note: Where It All Began has a new (beta) version out and Elvensang has a new update due to be released on Christmas Day.
 
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5.00 star(s) 8 Votes