Recommending Story-first games

[MissFortune]

Aren't they doing the same when they ask for the players not to mention any unrelated games in a thread's reviews, like in this one?
I didn't think of his ask as controlling, and it rather helped keep the discussion within the same context, instead of becoming another hectic thread with no sense.

I get keeping things in check. But where is that line drawn and who draws it? Who has the right to draw it on a public forum (short of mods/admins, ofc.)? Is calling random people 'seriously disturbed' sensible? There's obviously layers to this kind of conversation, but the aforementioned Discord is basically the answer to all the current issues in this thread, no?

Spoiler: Short ramble on perception, etc.

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[365 others]

I get keeping things in check. But where is that line drawn and who draws it? Who has the right to draw it on a public forum (short of mods/admins, ofc.)? Is calling random people 'seriously disturbed' sensible? There's obviously layers to this kind of conversation, but the aforementioned Discord is basically the answer to all the current issues in this thread, no?

Spoiler: Short ramble on perception, etc.

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Sure, I just wanted to point out that I found it weird reading a comment criticizing an ask from the OP (which again, I did not consider controlling how he asked for it) and doing the same within the same paragraph.

I never said you were the OP on the game's thread, but I haven't seen you there advocating for the right of the players to mention other games. I know that thread doesn't allow it for whatever reason, but I also have seen others where they mention other VN/games in the reviews.

 

[Hildegardt]

I get keeping things in check. But where is that line drawn and who draws it? Who has the right to draw it on a public forum (short of mods/admins, ofc.)? Is calling random people 'seriously disturbed' sensible? There's obviously layers to this kind of conversation, but the aforementioned Discord is basically the answer to all the current issues in this thread, no?

Spoiler: Short ramble on perception, etc.

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Damn, where's all this coming from? I can't speak for Jufot, but the way I see it, he was only trying to protect the vibes of this thread, because, as he said, it had good run for a few years now. Kinda weird to bring up rights and censorship honestly.
You're right that a bunch of people could decide to roll in and chase out the regular and Jufot wouldn't be able to do anything against it . But I feel like it's easy to see that this would be annoying.

 

[camube]

I'll just add my vote to The Last Sovereign. It's an absolutely fantastic game with an outstanding story. Also, the main story is now finished, so it's a great time to start playing it!
However, it does take a good bit of commitment: My current playthrough sits at 112 hours, and I have the bigger part of chapter 5 still ahead of me (the last but biggest chapter of the game). I think you'd need to speedrun it to finish in under 100 hours. And I would not attempt playing the game without either help from the wiki, or taking extensive notes.

As for NTR, the characters that do that are Succubi, for them sex is food, and everybody concerned views it as a positive event. It really shouldn't be a problem. By then, the game has drawn you way too deep into its world.
(There is one point early one where you have the option to prostitute an LI for money. It's a big choice with long lasting consequences, neither choice being obviously the right one. Basically all walkthroughs opt to not prostitute her, weighting the LIs trust higher than the money.)

I really enjoy the philosophy discussions in this game, the proactive planning the MC and his allies do, the worldbuilding, the characterization of everybody (MC, LIs, allies, enemies, gods, normal NPCs, everybody!), the amount of agency you have. In my eyes, this absolutely belongs in the list of story focused games.
Yes, there are some sex scenes that aren't needed for the plot, but I'd argue they are needed as examples of the sex-positive world this game builds. And all sex scenes are short, easily skippable through (you can even disable the images), and their duration absolutely pales in comparison to the play time of the whole game.

If there's a renpy game or games you think is worth mentioning, plz let us know. I might want to check it out.
Btw i just realized you have a Game Dev role. Can I ask what game? I take it it's not renpy? is it RPGM?

 

[365 others]

If there's a renpy game or games you think is worth mentioning, plz let us know. I might want to check it out.
Btw i just realized you have a Game Dev role. Can I ask what game? I take it it's not renpy? is it RPGM?

I'd also like to know, please!
While I have played mostly renpy (or Unity) games, recently started getting hooked with RPGM and found a couple there that while not on this list, I think they are great.

 

[MissFortune]

Damn, where's all this coming from? I can't speak for Jufot, but the way I see it, he was only trying to protect the vibes of this thread, because, as he said, it had good run for a few years now. Kinda weird to bring up rights and censorship honestly.
You're right that a bunch of people could decide to roll in and chase out the regular and Jufot wouldn't be able to do anything against it . But I feel like it's easy to see that this would be annoying.

I've got nothing against Jufot, and perhaps censoring is a strong word here. And like I said, I get the keeping things in check.

The reason I bring them up is because the idea of debating good or bad (or average) is a prominent (and accepted) theme in thread, is it not? But when it comes to the idea of rape or gorey violence, or other fringe material that Jufot doesn't like, there's zero room for it? That's the issue with it (along with the kinkshaming). Which is all fine and dandy, I don't really care. But you shouldn't be surprised when people start talking about something story-related on a game that's allowed on the forum you're posting on. It's kinda like a stranger kicking you out of a park for putting pineapple on your pizza, would you listen? To be clear, this isn't an attack on Jufot at all. It could be anyone and it'd still apply.

Either way, this went way further I intended. I simply asked why not use Discord if you're that against rape/loli/etc. content and refuse to see it posted. There's no real downsides to it, and it sure as hell beats trying to moderate a thread with no tools at your disposal.

 

[EndlessNights]

Respectfully, If you're that strong on controlling people's right to maturely (or immaturely) debate/speak on a topic in a public thread that has no proper moderation function for you, then why not just move to Discord? You can have your own rules, censor, moderate as you see fit, and ban anyone or any dissenting opinion.

You're never going to control people's ability to speak, debate, or their will to vocalize their thoughts/opinions. Especially on the internet. So why make it hard on yourself?

As I see it, threads naturally develop cultures and often unwritten codes of conduct of their own, particularly if they've been around for a long time and been populated by many of the same users for much of that time as this one has. I didn't see jufot's statement as some kind of authoritarian decree or an act of censorship considering he's a user like everyone else here -- he was merely indicating that posts like the one he was responding to which has now been deleted by its author didn't fit the purpose or culture of the thread as he sees it. He's both the creator of the thread and one of its most active participants so of course his opinion carries weight even if he doesn't have any special powers to punish users who don't share his vision.

That said, there are potential consequences on F95zone to ignoring requests from and disrespecting other users even if the behavior doesn't merit mod intervention. You can get added to ignore lists, not get responded to when you post, not receive likes, etc. Not everyone would care about any of those things, but there are still potential consequences to user behavior that don't require Discord mod levels of authority.

TL;DR: It's probably a good idea to listen to jufot.

 

[MissFortune]

TL;DR: It's probably a good idea to listen to jufot.

Fair enough. it's his thread. As I said, it went a little deeper than I initially intended beyond the Discord comment. Well, that and the whole 'I don't like X genre/game = you're seriously disturbed' thing, which just isn't cool on website like this.

I guess it just roots in the concept that if you're going to leave a platform open for debate (such as this one), then it should be open for anything and everything (within the constructs of the said platforms rules, obviously). If not, then what's the point? This is aimed less at the loli/shota stuff and more at the rape, to be clear. But the point still kind of stands for both regardless.

 

[MrPocketRocket]

I think there is a bit of a disconnect in what the thread was intended to do, be a forum for and what the reality of this site is. Neither invalid, however: I think what jufot wants to discuss could be respected, and all it takes is a little respect and maturity. Far too little of that going around. Yes, this is an open forum, but that does not exclude threads that have a target audience, no? No reason why we can submit to being civil and obey the yield sign.

 

[moskyx]

Fortunately next week we'll be talking about "Gemini", the next game in the Elsaverse. It's insanely good and, most importantly, it's a story-first game and not some offtopic meta discussion.

 

[365 others]

Fortunately next week we'll be talking about "Gemini", the next game in the Elsaverse. It's insanely good and, most importantly, it's a story-first game and not some offtopic meta discussion.

I lost track of the Elsaverse after Saving Chloe. I thought it was the last one with the same universe (or characters with intertwined stories). Is that one a continuation of the same universe?

 

[Tlaero]

I lost track of the Elsaverse after Saving Chloe. I thought it was the last one with the same universe (or characters with intertwined stories). Is that one a continuation of the same universe?

First, credit to Moskys for the extreme amount of work that he did on this wiki:

You must be registered to see the links

Depending on how you count them, Gemini is either the 7th or the 10th game in the Elsaverse.

The first five games are in the Omnibus Vol1, along with 5 visual short stories, 4 text short stories, and a text novella. The games are:
Dreaming with Elsa
Redemption for Jessika
Finding Miranda
Saving Chloe
Darkness Falls

After that, it goes:
Elsa's Nightmares
Elsaverse: Transitions
Chasing Beth
Elsaverse: Past, Present, and Future
Gemini

Links to all of them are here:

You must be registered to see the links

Gemini will be released to the public on Tuesday, and I'll add it to the above about page.

Tlaero

edit: If you don't want to play all of those games, a good place to start is Chasing Beth.

 

[camube]

Fortunately next week we'll be talking about "Gemini", the next game in the Elsaverse. It's insanely good and, most importantly, it's a story-first game and not some offtopic meta discussion.

Or Zero End. It has a new release too

 

[365 others]

First, credit to Moskys for the extreme amount of work that he did on this wiki:

You must be registered to see the links

Depending on how you count them, Gemini is either the 7th or the 10th game in the Elsaverse.

The first five games are in the Omnibus Vol1, along with 5 visual short stories, 4 text short stories, and a text novella. The games are:
Dreaming with Elsa
Redemption for Jessika
Finding Miranda
Saving Chloe
Darkness Falls

After that, it goes:
Elsa's Nightmares
Elsaverse: Transitions
Chasing Beth
Elsaverse: Past, Present, and Future
Gemini

Links to all of them are here:

You must be registered to see the links

Gemini will be released to the public on Tuesday, and I'll add it to the above about page.

Tlaero

edit: If you don't want to play all of those games, a good place to start is Chasing Beth.

I'd like to ask if after Saving Chloe they go after the witch (a girl with crow feathers? She was with Chloe's dad) in any of the following games. It let me hooked, but without knowing if they went after her.
I also wonder if they managed to lift Miranda's curse.

 

[camube]

Fair enough. it's his thread. As I said, it went a little deeper than I initially intended beyond the Discord comment. Well, that and the whole 'I don't like X genre/game = you're seriously disturbed' thing, which just isn't cool on website like this.

I guess it just roots in the concept that if you're going to leave a platform open for debate (such as this one), then it should be open for anything and everything (within the constructs of the said platforms rules, obviously). If not, then what's the point? This is aimed less at the loli/shota stuff and more at the rape, to be clear. But the point still kind of stands for both regardless.

i don't know who said "seriously disturbed", I didn't see that but to me it's all just discussions.
If a thread owner (any thread owner) doesn't want the people in it to discuss some things, I'll do what they ask to be respectful.

If someone someday makes another thread, I'll read that too.
I don't have an interest to make a thread, so complying to a thread owner's wish and personal disposition is okay.

What's important to me is narrowing the list of games to play next. And secondary to that, maybe the devs would get more support off of the discussions.
It really doesn't matter to me all that much whether we can talk or not talk about some games or some subject matters as long as I get to read recommendations of games.

Most of the time I gloss over appearances. To me a game can have only background images and texts only without character images in it and I'd be perfectly fine with it. The background images alone saves so much time compared to reading a book. And AVN in general is brief compared to other mediums.

If Capella ever write a PDF of the entire Mad World script to completion, I would pay for that even if the game itself is abandoned. I would pay for that right now actually, cuz I want to read about Paeonia and Vincent in particular and the story in general.

What I want to read is the author's writing.
A good story is a good story. I'll read good stories.
Even moreso if the characters in the stories are written with nuances.

 

[moskyx]

I'd like to ask if after Saving Chloe they go after the witch (a girl with crow feathers? She was with Chloe's dad) in any of the following games. It let me hooked, but without knowing if they went after her.
I also wonder if they managed to lift Miranda's curse.

She was arrested along Morland in Saving Chloe. But she still can be seen in other titles

 

[camube]

EndlessNights, can i ask why Superhuman has it's own separate thread discussion?
What happen with just talking on the main thread?

For context i ask because Our Red String for a short while moved to a separate thread too because someone posted far too many fan pictures and f95 Team locked the main thread because of it for some period of time.
Or at least I think that was the reason, I wasn't actually there when the thread initially got locked. I learned about it after the fact.
I don't think people posting fan pics to be disruptive, and even if I ever find them disruptive, I can just skim over the posts.

What's funnier though is that when the thread got locked there was a notice of redirection to an AI art ORS thread or something like that. So it actually became disruptive because people that wants to have discussion got redirected to that specific-purpose art thread, and actually disrupt the people that were already there to begin with, lol.

Did something similar happen to Superhuman thread?

Also, from your view, has Superhuman reach at least 50% completion?
I'm running out of renpy game to play and it's about time to dive into backlog

 

[Beduin123]

Fair enough. it's his thread. As I said, it went a little deeper than I initially intended beyond the Discord comment. Well, that and the whole 'I don't like X genre/game = you're seriously disturbed' thing, which just isn't cool on website like this.

I guess it just roots in the concept that if you're going to leave a platform open for debate (such as this one), then it should be open for anything and everything (within the constructs of the said platforms rules, obviously). If not, then what's the point? This is aimed less at the loli/shota stuff and more at the rape, to be clear. But the point still kind of stands for both regardless.

Personally for me the story is always at the first place in a game. I used to be a total bookworm in my youth and still read a lot of books. But as some other user put it, some threads have their own "culture" or rather a bunch of regulars that frequent these threads who share certain views and prejudices.
Unfortunately, I feel uncomfortable about the self-censoring "culture" in this thread, so probably the best solution for club members like me is just unwatch it and forget about it. There are other threads where folks can discuss story-first games that the regulars in this one find to be too sensitive. It's much easier than trying to persuade people who are dead set on something. It's like trying to persuade NTR-haters that sex between LIs in your harem isn't an NTR

 

[camube]

There are other threads where folks can discuss story-first games that the regulars in this one

Where?
Is that literal? If it is, can you link it here? I want to subscribe maybe.

Or are you saying that as a hypothetical? In the sense that it theoretically should exist somewhere and if not, hypothetically it would exist in the future.

The biggest direct advantage of this thread's discoverability to me, is the name. The name is so succinct, "story-first games". If I ever search for a thread title from f95 search bar, or straight from google, something along the line of this thread's title would be the keywords I use.
So I never try searching on google or on the search bar for an alternative place for this thread ever.

The biggest direct advantage of reading this thread to me is that game developers post here regularly. One of my big interest is reading the perspective of these game devs. Off the top of my head, i can name at least 6 devs and I don't read all the pages from 2022, I skip around a lot, so there has to be more than these 6 devs that I remember.

More place as a reference where people can discuss stories is great for me cuz then I can get more recommendations.
So if you find other places, let me know

That way I can check devs posts from here, and I can check recommendations from both places

 

[365 others]

She was arrested along Morland in Saving Chloe. But she still can be seen in other titles

I'll have to replay it. I remember a very different ending, with the witch fleeing away.