Recommending Story-first games

[jufot]

But when I look at the preview pics, I can't help thinking that there are unapologetic porn games out there with less porn-brained visuals than SG.

SG is definitely designed to get you ogling as many girls as possible, as frequently as possible. It wants to be perceived as higher-minded, but it isn't.

As I understand it, the recent removal of NSFW scenes was less about authorial intent, and more about making sure the Steam release could proceed without an adult-only restriction.

 

[yossa999]

TBH about the visuals, though: Never played the game, so the only thing I know about it is that it's apparently "not a porn game", as the fans very passionately claim. But when I look at the preview pics, I can't help thinking that there are unapologetic porn games out there with less porn-brained visuals than SG.

I know, right? Even with the complete lack of sex scenes, it still looks more erotic than most of the intercourse simulators called AVN on this site. When people say it's not a porn game, they only mean that it's not a porn game, not that it will never have any lewd scenes. The essence of the game is different from porn, it is not about how the MC copulated with different girls with a detailed demonstration of each sexual act. At the same time, I think neither the author nor the fans of the game ever denied that the main characters are young people, so love, flirt, relationships and sex are very important parts of their lives and the author in no way leaves these topics aside.

And as Jufot fairly noted, the decision to make the first season completely nsfw is more of a trade-off decision by the author than the logic of the plot. I won't go into detail about this decision; they were discussed many times in the game thread and explained by the author. But before the release of the last, fifth chapter of the first season, the author steadily increased the tension between the MC and some of the main girls, so most of the audience expected a culmination in the last chapter of the season, perhaps not a sex scene, but something close to it. But with the release of the beta version of the last chapter of the season 1, released with the parital reworks of the first two chapters, he significantly softened the erotic side of the story and removed the most explicit scene.

This infuriated part of the audience and resulted in a bunch of one-star reviews. And some even started shouting that this is a scam, this is not a porn game as it should be, it doesn't belong to this site and it should be removed. And I completely agree with the last part.

The only problem is that with the next season the author will not have such nsfw restrictions and I hope he will not rush into lewds right off the bat.

 

[365 others]

SG is definitely designed to get you ogling as many girls as possible, as frequently as possible. It wants to be perceived as higher-minded, but it isn't.

As I understand it, the recent removal of NSFW scenes was less about authorial intent, and more about making sure the Steam release could proceed without an adult-only restriction.

I've seen it as highly recommended. What is keeping me from trying is the length of the VN. As FatGiant's said, Ocean seems to be quite ambitious, but he seems to be aiming rather too high.
I hate getting invested in an excellent story just to be left hanging, and since it would take him easily a decade to complete it, I'm quite hesitant to start reading something that might be extremely good but that is also very likely to get abandoned.

 

[jamdan]

I played SG when it first came out, when Ocean was having his friend make the renders for it.

But I eventually dropped it, and Ocean's other game too, Where it All Began, for the same reasons.

Ocean is his own worst enemy. He's reworked things so many times and both games have a huge scope. And those things combined means there is basically a 0% chance he'll actually finish either one of them. I doubt he'll even get halfway. You can search for my posts in the WIAB thread, things I said years ago are still true the last time I checked. He's a pretty hardcore perfectionist.

As for the writing/story. For me, both games try to be "story first". But I feel his interpretation of story first basically boils down to not having NSFW content. Because to me, his actual writing is too melodramatic and he reworks things so much you can pretty easily get things confused.

 

[yossa999]

I've seen it as highly recommended. What is keeping me from trying is the length of the VN. As FatGiant's said, Ocean seems to be quite ambitious, but he seems to be aiming rather too high.
I hate getting invested in an excellent story just to be left hanging, and since it would take him easily a decade to complete it, I'm quite hesitant to start reading something that might be extremely good but that is also very likely to get abandoned.

I fully understand this point of view, but I do not share it. Why live at all if you can die at any moment? Why live after 40, if at best you have half your life left and most likely not the best half

The author plans to release the game in seasons, each of them has a prologue, main part and climax. It sounds like a regular "completed" game to me. You can only play full seasons as they are released.

Again, I speak only for myself. LoF is an excellent game and at one time made quite a strong impression on me (not as much as SG, but close.) But being completed, it left me with a feeling of incompleteness. Most likely I’m wrong, but it felt to me like the author just got tired of it at some point and he simply ended the game, wrapping up all the storylines that could have been developed much more. It was a great game, but it has come to an end. I went through all the branches of the game and deleted it. Characters I really liked are now dead to me.

On the other hand, it's a matter of how much of a completionist you are. I've always preferred TV series to movies, especially with an open ending to each season where there's always room for the next season I understand that not everyone likes it. But I want to see how Ocean's experiment of creating a long multi-episode series in the AVN format ends, is it even possible, or is AVN just a synonym for a short erotic/porn story.

 

[365 others]

I fully understand this point of view, but I do not share it. Why live at all if you can die at any moment? Why live after 40, if at best you have half your life left and most likely not the best half

That was a bit out of the field. The fact that I don't want to start a game/series because it can get abandoned is more related to how I want to invest my spare time. I'd rather invest it in something complete than something that will leave me feeling unsatisfied.

I also was left with a sense of void after LoF finished, but I had at least the good experience of having the story satisfactorily enough completed. Could it have been developed further? Sure, but at least was closed/completed enough not to leave too many untied knots.

The author plans to release the game in seasons, each of them has a prologue, main part and climax. It sounds like a regular "completed" game to me. You can only play full seasons as they are released.

Again, I speak only for myself. LoF is an excellent game and at one time made quite a strong impression on me (not as much as SG, but close.) But being completed, it left me with a feeling of incompleteness. Most likely I’m wrong, but it felt to me like the author just got tired of it at some point and he simply ended the game, wrapping up all the storylines that could have been developed much more. It was a great game, but it has come to an end. I went through all the branches of the game and deleted it. Characters I really liked are now dead to me.

On the other hand, it's a matter of how much of a completionist you are. I've always preferred TV series to movies, especially with an open ending to each season where there's always room for the next season I understand that not everyone likes it. But I want to see how Ocean's experiment of creating a long multi-episode series in the AVN format ends, is it even possible, or is AVN just a synonym for a short erotic/porn story.

I can get why, but I don't share that view. I loved the show "Marco Polo" on Netflix, but had I known that it was going to be canceled, I wouldn't have started watching it.
I can't of course, know when something is going to be left incomplete, but I try to avoid it as much as I can.

 

[Dessolos]

I too perfer TV or anime over movies. I always viewed a AVN as a tv show / anime where you don't know if it's going to be complete. Yeah it sucks when something doesn't but im used to it by now. If I didn't have this mind set I would not be able to play or enjoy AVN's in general. That and well how I see it life is to damn short to worry if something is going to be completed, I rather enjoyed what's infront of me. I too have my doubts Ocean will finish SG considering he plans to do something like 32 chapters if I recall correctly. But you know what im still going to enjoy every minute of it , while I can same goes with other games. No other normal video game or tv show / anime has been able to capture how I feel about characters like Bella (SG) , Erynn ( intertwined) , Charlotte ( Hillside) etc etc.

So how I see things is I rather live in the moment and enjoy things now while I can instead of waiting and hoping for something that is complete. Because of how these games make me feel for certain characters it's worth the chance of something getting dropped to me. But maybe that is because I put characters above story in terms of importance when it comes to AVN's for me personally.

With all that being said I do get why many don't like to get invested into something unless there is alot of content or it's complete or close to it. I think it boils down to how easily one can become attached to a character vs story as well how much time one is willing to invest in something , as well how much free time they have. For someone like me that likes to live in the moment it doesn't matter if it's wasted or not to me personally as long as I enjoy it.

 

[yossa999]

I too perfer TV or anime over movies. I always viewed a AVN as a tv show / anime where you don't know if it's going to be complete. Yeah it sucks when something doesn't but im used to it by now. If I didn't have this mind set I would not be able to play or enjoy AVN's in general. That and well how I see it life is to damn short to worry if something is going to be completed, I rather enjoyed what's infront of me. I too have my doubts Ocean will finish SG considering he plans to do something like 32 chapters if I recall correctly. But you know what im still going to enjoy every minute of it , while I can same goes with other games. No other normal video game or tv show / anime has been able to capture how I feel about characters like Bella (SG) , Erynn ( intertwined) , Charlotte ( Hillside) etc etc.

So how I see things is I rather live in the moment and enjoy things now while I can instead of waiting and hoping for something that is complete. Because of how these games make me feel for certain characters it's worth the chance of something getting dropped to me. But maybe that is because I put characters above story in terms of importance when it comes to AVN's for me personally.

With all that being said I do get why many don't like to get invested into something unless there is alot of content or it's complete or close to it. I think it boils down to how easily one can become attached to a character vs story as well how much time one is willing to invest in something , as well how much free time they have. For someone like me that likes to live in the moment it doesn't matter if it's wasted or not to me personally as long as I enjoy it.

Man, Connected is the only abandoned game that I replay from time to time. Abandoned to its fullest, only two short chapters were released. And yet, in these two chapters, the dev managed to tell such an emotionally intense part of his incomplete story that it is still the best example of what I expect from a good AVN.

 

[Dessolos]

Man, Connected is the only abandoned game that I replay from time to time. Abandoned to its fullest, only two short chapters were released. And yet, in these two chapters, the dev managed to tell such an emotionally intense part of his incomplete story that it is still the best example of what I expect from a good AVN.

Might give it a try then I usually don't play games if they already have the abandoned tag but you have me curious

 

[Tlaero]

Gemini is out on

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now! It should show up here in a few days.

Thanks jufot!

Gemini is public now.

PC/Linux version:

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Mac version:

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I hope people enjoy it.
Tlaero

 

[vneotpolemus]

TBH about the visuals, though: Never played the game, so the only thing I know about it is that it's apparently "not a porn game", as the fans very passionately claim. But when I look at the preview pics, I can't help thinking that there are unapologetic porn games out there with less porn-brained visuals than SG.

All depends on who you're talking to. By the average F95 denizen's definition it's not a porn game because there's no sex. IMO it's a porn game with ambition. Sometimes it lives up to that and sometimes it doesn't, but just having ambition makes it more interesting to me than a perfectly executed unapologetic porn game would be.

 

[Dessolos]

All depends on who you're talking to. By the average F95 denizen's definition it's not a porn game because there's no sex.

100% this it 100% depends on the person and how they define a porn game to them not something that is going to be the same to everyone. It seems that is not something alot of people on these forums understand or at least accept. For me sex doesn't really make something a porn gam it depends if that is the focus or not of the game. I'm sure some games I don't consider as such many would. Which is why I kind of dislike the term of calling a AVN a porn game unless it's something like WVM where lewds are clearly the focus.

 

[noping123]

100% this it 100% depends on the person and how they define a porn game to them not something that is going to be the same to everyone. It seems that is not something alot of people on these forums understand or at least accept. For me sex doesn't really make something a porn gam it depends if that is the focus or not of the game. I'm sure some games I don't consider as such many would. Which is why I kind of dislike the term of calling a AVN a porn game unless it's something like WVM where lewds are clearly the focus.

This is something that caused me to get into a pretty huge argument on these forums once (The only time I've ever gotten a warning here!).

Basically I was trying to explain "I don't make porn games - I don't want to make porn games, and I don't want to present my games as porn games. There's a place for those sort of games, but I don't want to mislead people into thinking that's what they're getting from mine." His response was something along the lines of "Fuck off bro, you make porn games just like the rest of us, get off your fucking high horse" - and a pretty big argument came from that.

It took me a while before I really even understood what was going through his head - but he just saw *every* AVN as a "porn game". If it had sex? Porn game - period. Where as I was seeing a "porn game" as something that actually FOCUSED on the sex - the sex was the entire point of the game. Any game where the sex happened, but was part of the story and it wasn't the main focus, wasn't a porn game. I didn't want people thinking I was making a "porn game" and then play it and be disappointed because there wasn't enough content for them.

Took me a while to realize that there are a ton of people who just consider *every* avn a "porn game" - and play most of them with that expectation. In fact, in my experience - that is the majority of players. (Which tracks, given the content of some of the more popular games out there).

It really comes down to a difference of perspective, and a difference of expectations. I try to avoid "porn games" personally, because its not what I'm interested in - but a lot of times I do wish there was a better - or at least more commonly accepted - way to distinguish them from each other, if for no other reason the benefit of the audience knowing what they're getting into, and not being "mislead" into playing games they won't enjoy.

 

[Canto Forte]

Title: Gemini
Developer website:

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Language: English
Sequel to Darkness Falls

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Tentative review with a bit of feedback and emotional innuendo on the side:

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[365 others]

This is something that caused me to get into a pretty huge argument on these forums once (The only time I've ever gotten a warning here!).

Basically I was trying to explain "I don't make porn games - I don't want to make porn games, and I don't want to present my games as porn games. There's a place for those sort of games, but I don't want to mislead people into thinking that's what they're getting from mine." His response was something along the lines of "Fuck off bro, you make porn games just like the rest of us, get off your fucking high horse" - and a pretty big argument came from that.

It took me a while before I really even understood what was going through his head - but he just saw *every* AVN as a "porn game". If it had sex? Porn game - period. Where as I was seeing a "porn game" as something that actually FOCUSED on the sex - the sex was the entire point of the game. Any game where the sex happened, but was part of the story and it wasn't the main focus, wasn't a porn game. I didn't want people thinking I was making a "porn game" and then play it and be disappointed because there wasn't enough content for them.

Took me a while to realize that there are a ton of people who just consider *every* avn a "porn game" - and play most of them with that expectation. In fact, in my experience - that is the majority of players. (Which tracks, given the content of some of the more popular games out there).

It really comes down to a difference of perspective, and a difference of expectations. I try to avoid "porn games" personally, because its not what I'm interested in - but a lot of times I do wish there was a better - or at least more commonly accepted - way to distinguish them from each other, if for no other reason the benefit of the audience knowing what they're getting into, and not being "mislead" into playing games they won't enjoy.

I agree with you. I thought its wide category was implicit in the name "AVN" (Adult Visual Novel). While the Adult is commonly used for porn content, it is also used for violence, hard topics (such as the forbidden tags here), drugs, and any crude subject.

However, at least on this site, I've seen that AVN is mostly expected to refer only to porn/sex content in a VN.

 

[365 others]

I see they released Chapter 22 of The price of power. If I recall correctly they should be 1 or 2 releases more from completion.

 

[FatGiant]

I agree with you. I thought its wide category was implicit in the name "AVN" (Adult Visual Novel). While the Adult is commonly used for porn content, it is also used for violence, hard topics (such as the forbidden tags here), drugs, and any crude subject.

However, at least on this site, I've seen that AVN is mostly expected to refer only to porn/sex content in a VN.

It may be because I'm not from the U.S., but, I don't equate Adult with Porn. I equate it with content not adequate for minors. That covers a rather wide range of possibilities. Porn is only one of them. To be honest, Porn may not even be the most egregious of them all.

Everyone in the U.S., for example, don't consider Religion an Adult ONLY theme. I do. No minor should ever be involved or exposed to Religion, in my view. They also don't consider Violence another of those themes, I absolutely do. I still carry the scars, physical and emotional from being exposed to Extreme levels of Violence in my childhood. Drugs and all their consequences, are another. Rape. Humiliation. Domination. And many more.

None of that is Porn (or shouldn't be) but are certainly Adult ONLY themes. When I started reading AVN's I knew I would encounter Porn, but I also knew that I wanted to encounter stories that were written for and by 18+ people. Sex, isn't Porn. Porn isn't even Sex.

To people raised and forced to live in a Puritanical theocracy, it may seem the same, but they are completely NOT the same. Simply the fact that Trans and Futa share a tag here, is indicative of the prejudice that is rampant. Trans issues are NOT pornographic. Futa is nothing but a pornographic fantasy, or we would have to talk about the many other versions of Intersex. The glaring absence of the Bisexual tag, is another indication that the tags are meant as fetishes and nothing else.

So, many people here, think that ALL games are Porn, because for them, everything Adult is Porn. Why that is, maybe Anthropology and Sociology would explain it better, but to me it all comes down to brainwashing from the Puritanical Theocracy they have lived in. But, what do I know...

Peace

 

[turbojoe]

I see they released Chapter 22 of The price of power. If I recall correctly they should be 1 or 2 releases more from completion.

Thanks for the hint - I´ll give this a shot

 

[jufot]

Now that Gemini is on the forums, the OP has been updated

 

[BitingTheBullet]

Prolly not a good idea to write posts that can be read as threats of physical violence. Could you edit it?

Did you read it as a threat?