Recommending Story-first games

[jufot]

Elsa definitely hides a lot. And exactly who she is is one of the things she hides.

The biggest plot hole is why Edward still hasn't googled Elsa's full name

Sounds super promising, but is that really the mcs face?

I know, he's a looker

 

[bacienvu88]

The biggest plot hole is why Edward still hasn't google Elsa's full name

Here you go.

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[desmosome]

I went through Corporate Culture again cus the new update broke my save files, but it was enjoyable the second time around as well. This game has the most excruciatingly slow dev cycle, but man... it's one of the best stories that tries to present a realistic narrative.

I love that you can slowly pick up flags and variables that point the MC towards a more egoistic path while the game still stays grounded in reality.

Elsa is still an enigma. MC has a long ways to go until he can match her. I really wonder what she has to gain from Edward manning up. Is it really just a pet project or is there something more? Hmm.

Emma is a huge hurtle, and I doubt the game would turn to the typical porn blackmail trope or sudden power reversal where she becomes his cocksleeve or something. It's a delicate game we have to play to step over her.

Lucy is throwing all sorts of red flags but I love to stick it in crazy lol. Well, she's not really crazy, but she is certainly gonna cause problems down the line. She's really the only one we can read fully, and I love that it is intentionally written like this. She's a gold digger through and through, but not in an overtly malicious way. She is a bit manipulative and clingy, but at least she does seem to be controllable. Hopefully, she can accept her status as side chick witout blowing everything up lol.

Although we didn't see anything new from Alice, I'm still very impressed by her character. Most devs would just write her as a typical holy grail who is kind and amazing, but this dev gave her a lot more depth. She does have genuine kindness in her, but she is clearly spoiled and a bit entitled in a way that trust fund babies tend to be. She is a bit haughty but also down to earth. She is quite a convincing character. I suspect a big part of Edwin's arc will be about taking her down from the pedestal he concocted and accepting her as a human being (or using her to rise to the top if you wanna be an asshole).

The black haired chick from the bar is so hot. I'm glad we have her number. There should be at least a bit more with her even if she's not a major character.

 

[Dabigoh]

Alright, I have another strong recommendation! There isn't much of a story, so it won't go on the list, but it's so, very good. Meet Camp Klondike!

I took a look at Camp Klondike at your suggestion and I loved it.

You are right about the graphics, at first I wasn't sure what to think but it really started to grow on me. After a while, I found the graphics to be a perfect fit with the story and some of the animations actually added a lot of character to the scenes.

The best part, as you said, were the intimate scenes. These were some of the best written, most arousing scenes I have ever read. It wasn't about the sex, it was about the intimacy and exploration between the characters. It was very much not my kink, but the scene in the bunk with MC's friend was one of the most erotic things I've ever read.

While definitely not overflowing with "story", I did find myself very disappointed when I reached the end.

Once again, thank you for the suggestion. Keep 'em coming.

 

[jufot]

Once again, thank you for the suggestion. Keep 'em coming.

I'm glad you liked it! It's definitely one of my favourite finds in recent times

 

[boobsrcool]

have you tried how to fix the future?

 

[Raife]

Fair enough, I'll add it to my backlog Although I should mention that the trading, scraping and travelling (except to/from quests) are largely avoidable in Callisto.

So... I finally made it through _Callisto_... and have mixed feelings, although it's not a bad game. I agree that it qualifies as story-first... but barely. It's essentially a hybrid game, where porn sometimes takes centre-stage.

On the plus side, I enjoyed the story despite the fact that it is very derivative: a sci-fi pastiche with elements taken from _Mass Effect_ and _Starcraft_, with a dash of _Serenity_ thrown in for good measure. Still, the world makes sense and hews consistently to its own rules.

The LIs are all well crafted, although I did not find any of them particularly compelling. It's not a harem game, but there's an inconsistency in how jealousy among the LIs is handled. Some LIs are really unhappy if the MC pursues a relationship with certain other crewmates -- but after an initial expression of distaste, that dynamic is reflected only 'under the hood' in the relationship stats... in a manner that does not feel compelling.

My main complaint, though, is that the game has _a lot_ of features, but not many of them are well-implemented. If a dev creates a sophisticated LI relationship 'balance wheel' or trading system, I will feel obliged to try to make them work... probably due to my 'completionist' playstyle. So... I felt obliged to balance the crew relationship stats by repeatedly playing through the porn scenes, which turned them into a chore.

I hope that the dev focuses in their next game on creating fewer, more compelling gameplay elements. An overly-ambitious approach did not serve them well... it rarely does. (The rebooted version of _Wicked Rouge_ may be the exception that proves the rule that too many complications undercut quality... but it's far from complete.)

 

[Raife]

Maybe the definition of an erotic story game has changed over the years, and I haven't kept up with the times. But, to me, player agency isn't what makes something a "game." What makes something a game is the ability to fail.

It looks like you touched a nerve here, Tlaero... but I generally agree with you. I tend to play these games for two reasons: (1) for an adult story which touches on the human condition (which necessarily must involve sex) and (2) to challenge myself to find the most optimal outcome for the MC.

Point two is essentially in line with your observation that a game must involve a sense of challenge, which can lead to 'failure' -- particularly broadly defined as a sub-optimal outcome.

I do tend to like games with a sense of jeopardy -- either physical jeopardy, or emotional jeopardy, where certain decisions can lead to very negative consequences. A player should be 'punished' for role-playing characters in a manner inconsistent with their fundamental personalities/psychology, or for taking too many (or too few) risks.

So... I guess that's a long way of saying that I agree with you: the games I find compelling involve risk and failure... although in the bast games those failures can reveal interesting things about the character and aren't necessarily 'game over' moments.

 

[ShamanLab]

Love MorteM

Like it or not but this is very story driven game.

 

[Tlaero]

Alright, I have another strong recommendation! There isn't much of a story, so it won't go on the list, but it's so, very good. Meet Camp Klondike!

My day job is demanding and stressful, and I spend a significant percentage of my free time working on my own games. So I don't get much of a chance to play other people's games. But, on the strength of Jufot's recommendation, I tried Camp Klondike last night and really enjoyed it. I got through the Cave scene before I had to go to bed.

I enjoy the art style. It's definitely unique. I wouldn't want everyone to switch to this style, but I applaud swimsoot for finding something that works for them and owning it.

Jufot, I only half agree with you that there's not much of a story. Yeah, "Horny Camp Counselors" has been done before, but almost all stories have been done before. What really matters in a story is the interaction between the characters. The plot and setting are really just there to facilitate that interaction. (Obviously, this is just my opinion. There are plenty of successful plot heavy stories with forgettable characters. But the people interaction is what matters most to me.)

The people interaction in Camp Klondike is extremely good. The characters are well fleshed out and interesting. Their conversations are meaningful and exceptionally well written. Hats off to Swimsoot.

I feel that Hayden's portrayal changed over the course of the first few episodes, but I like where it ended up by the time the Cave scene was over.

I'm a little freaked out by the scene with the binder clips. I think that would hurt a lot more than it seemed to. (No, I'm not going to try it to be sure!)

I think I'm a sucker for "Horny MC who wants to get laid a lot, but instead treats the women with respect." He comes across as really compelling. For a story about kinks and promiscuous sex, there's a wholesomeness to this that I seriously appreciate.

Thank you for the recommendation, Jufot!

Tlaero

 

[jufot]

Jufot, I only half agree with you that there's not much of a story. Yeah, "Horny Camp Counselors" has been done before, but almost all stories have been done before. What really matters in a story is the interaction between the characters.

You are quite right, and I do agree that characters matter most. When I said there is not much of a story, I meant in the sense of plot, a

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. But that's an unnecessarily restrictive criteria for story-first, and Klondike deserves to go on the list.

I'm a little freaked out by the scene with the binder clips. I think that would hurt a lot more than it seemed to. (No, I'm not going to try it to be sure!)

You'd be surprised just how much pain some people are into sexually! Not me, nothing's going anywhere near my nipples

I think I'm a sucker for "Horny MC who wants to get laid a lot, but instead treats the women with respect." He comes across as really compelling. For a story about kinks and promiscuous sex, there's a wholesomeness to this that I seriously appreciate.

Indeed. It's a good example of how it's possible to write a story that is respectful, sex positive and deeply erotic and kinky.

Thank you for the recommendation, Jufot!

It's my pleasure, I'm glad the game resonated so strongly with you!

 

[bacienvu88]

So, Hillside's latest update is out. It was fun! I like that things are finally moving along a bit faster. My only complaint is that Suzi's thing with her roommate sending a pic to MC was complete nonsense. "I hate you for no reason, but I secretly want to fuck you" is for cheap Brazilian telenovelas, not Hillside

I always have mixed feelings when playing Hillside. I replayed it from the start now. I love the writing in the interactions between MC and all the women. Especially MC and Emma, I love how caring he is with her. Btw, I really really hope Emma and Suzi never gets to be actual LI:s.

However, I really don't like the devs over reliance on big strong man saving damsels in distress. All the girls (except Lucy) needs to be saved from the big bad men out there. There are no men who can be kind and trusted except MC (sure Steve and David are sort of ok, but still a league away from MC). And they need saving over and over again. And each time they get saved by MC they fall more in love with MC of course, because all women must fall in love with guys that save them. In particular I think Suzi should have been able to solve her problem without MC. I would have loved to see Suzi and MC working together to take down the bad guys.

Then there is another over reliance. That of people who should trust each other not talking with each other about their problems. I can understand Charlotte not telling everything to MC in the beginning, because she doesn't trust MC yet together with her past issues. But it becomes too much when Charlotte won't tell Emma or Suzi anything and also hides stuff from Lucy. Suzi is not telling Charlotte about her problems. Lucy won't tell about getting together with MC (on that route). But that is at least starting to become a lesser problem now when at least MC and Charlotte is starting to talk to each other.

 

[Raife]

I always have mixed feelings when playing Hillside. I replayed it from the start now. I love the writing in the interactions between MC and all the women. Especially MC and Emma, I love how caring he is with her. Btw, I really really hope Emma and Suzi never gets to be actual LI:s.

However, I really don't like the devs over reliance on big strong man saving damsels in distress.

Then there is another over reliance. That of people who should trust each other not talking with each other about their problems.

I rather agree with your first objection, although the second strikes me as less valid.

Even in _Hillside_, there is too much emphasis on 'strong man' syndrome among the LIs; there's also too much emphasis on violence as a solution to problems. I cherish the hope, though, that Dark Blue is giving us yet another head fake on this subject... and that the MC's episode of uncontrolled violence at the end of the last episode is pointing to a scenario where Charlotte will need to rescue him this time, rather than the other way around. But if that doesn't happen... I share your concern about the nature of the plot.

Your second objection is not wrong, but I think it might be misplaced. The game is fundamentally about deeply hurt characters learning to trust other people again -- particularly in the case of Charlotte and the MC. It would have been very strange for those characters to open up to each other quickly; the slow emergence of trust and affection between those two individuals is the best thing about the plot. The secrets that people keep from each other, and tragic miscommunication, is a trope in literature, not just this game. So... I think you've identified a feature, not a bug.

 

[bacienvu88]

Even in _Hillside_, there is too much emphasis on 'strong man' syndrome among the LIs; there's also too much emphasis on violence as a solution to problems. I cherish the hope, though, that Dark Blue is giving us yet another head fake on this subject... and that the MC's episode of uncontrolled violence at the end of the last episode is pointing to a scenario where Charlotte will need to rescue him this time, rather than the other way around. But if that doesn't happen... I share your concern about the nature of the plot.

If that happens, it would put fresh air into the story.

Your second objection is not wrong, but I think it might be misplaced. The game is fundamentally about deeply hurt characters learning to trust other people again -- particularly in the case of Charlotte and the MC. It would have been very strange for those characters to open up to each other quickly; the slow emergence of trust and affection between those two individuals is the best thing about the plot. The secrets that people keep from each other, and tragic miscommunication, is a trope in literature, not just this game. So... I think you've identified a feature, not a bug.

It is a trope which can work well sometimes. But in my opinion should be used carefully and avoided if possible.

And I think the secrets kept between Charlotte and MC are pretty fine and I don't have a problem with that. It would be pretty weird if they started to trust each other from the start. But I think it has extended far too much to other characters.

For example I think they are making a huge disservice to Emma by not telling her anything. Innocence look adorable from the outside, and is fine for a 12 year old, but Emma is 18 years old and need to learn about the reality, especially in that place. And I can see no reason why Suzi is kept in the dark. And Charlotte not telling anything to Kaylah before the yacht trip is really weird to me. It doesn't feel necessary but only there to add some more pointless drama. Then there is Emma and the messages she received which Lucy wants to keep from Charlotte. And neither Lucy or MC dares confront her. Again, a disservice to Emma.

Maybe part of the problem (at least with Emma) is conflict between game aspect and story? Similar to what we discussed the other day. That is, game is setup so that the player is supposed to say and do stuff to make the women in the game feel good about themselves and the MC. However, a responsible adult is supposed to do what is actually best for the child rather than make them feel good.

There is a similar thing in Intertwined with MC and Erynn where an actual friend would tell Melissa and Alexis about Erynn and Ethan regardless if that takes a hit to the relationship with Erynn, because what is important if MC actually care about Erynn is to get her out of that situation. Doing nothing has a long history of not helping already.

And now I went off on a tangent, so I should probably stop here.

 

[realjitter]

Funny how opinions vary

I played Hillside for the 1st time like 2 days ago and i just couldn't get into it. The reason why is simple, it's Emma who's written like 10 year old trapped in a body of an "18" year old. The things she says, thinks and does in this game are just so unbelievable. Also how she gets treated by her Mother and the MC i found to be very concerning. Charlotte ordering her 18 year old daughter to go to bed or even tucking her into bed herself.... or telling her to brush her teeth...yeah.... The MC basically doing the same later on..Her Aunt making her aware to be careful about the hot pizza ...lol. All the boy talk, the weird soda talks and whatnot...there was just so much silly stuff regarding Emma.... Again, everybody talks to her like someone would talk to a 10 year old..The only realistic thing about Emma (imo) was her crush for Zak, the bang master

So yeah.., and she's appearently supposed to be a LI?. Get out of here..

My mind just couldn't comprehend all the creepines in this game. Nobody seems to be worried about just how mentally underdeveloped Emma truly is for her age. I'd be fucking frightened as a parent The last thing that Emma needs is to be sheltered and all this nonsense. All of this stuff was way too distracting for me to enjoy this otherwise solid game.

 

[Deleted member 3250193]

This has happened over on the Bare Witness thread as well. People wanted to just spend time with characters getting to know them, and suddenly found themselves getting locked out of LIs because of it. The devs reacted the way you did, they just didn't think anyone would want to spend time with a person if they didn't want to fuck them. Imagine that Of course, at that point, it was too late to change anything, so everyone just kind of accepted it and moved on.

In our defense, most AVN players are horny fuckers that would agree with our presumption. It's something we've learned from, however, and we'll be making changed in our next game to ensure people can actually be friends with characters even if they don't want to pursue them romantically.

 

[jufot]

Btw, I really really hope Emma and Suzi never gets to be actual LI:s.

I agree, but all signs indicate otherwise

However, I really don't like the devs over reliance on big strong man saving damsels in distress.

That's the game's biggest strength and weakness. It's a white knight simulator. At its best, it gives us some rather dramatic, high-tension scenes (like the one from the latest episode) and they're well-written. At its worst, it attracts

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, which is why I avoid the game thread.

Then there is another over reliance. That of people who should trust each other not talking with each other about their problems.

Oh,

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Innocence look adorable from the outside, and is fine for a 12 year old, but Emma is 18 years old and need to learn about the reality, especially in that place.

I still think that Emma is only "18" for Patreon enforcement avoidance.

In our defense, most AVN players are horny fuckers that would agree with our presumption. It's something we've learned from, however, and we'll be making changed in our next game to ensure people can actually be friends with characters even if they don't want to pursue them romantically.

That's great to hear. If you are looking for inspiration on how to get the balance right, just look at Intertwined

 

[Raife]

I still think that Emma is only "18" for Patreon enforcement avoidance.

This is precisely what I think is going on, here. I see her as circa 14-15 -- somewhere during the first half of her high school years, in American terms. Highly intelligent and talented, but naive and quite sheltered due to her extremely overprotective (arguably, for good reason) mother. That's how the character is written -- and that's how she's treated by all of the other characters (not just Charlotte and the MC).

Zach (RIP) and his crowd are written as older: maybe 18-19 year-old HS seniors. The player needs to ignore the Patreon-related age shift for Emma in order for the plot to make sense. If Emma's character is not transforemed into an LI (I do not think that she will be) this will be a prime example of how Patreon rules make it more difficult for devs to create compelling stories/NPCs.

 

[bacienvu88]

This is precisely what I think is going on, here. I see her as circa 14-15 -- somewhere during the first half of her high school years, in American terms. Highly intelligent and talented, but naive and quite sheltered due to her extremely overprotective (arguably, for good reason) mother. That's how the character is written -- and that's how she's treated by all of the other characters (not just Charlotte and the MC).

Zach (RIP) and his crowd are written as older: maybe 18-19 year-old HS seniors. The player needs to ignore the Patreon-related age shift for Emma in order for the plot to make sense. If Emma's character is not transforemed into an LI (I do not think that she will be) this will be a prime example of how Patreon rules make it more difficult for devs to create compelling stories/NPCs.

It is one thing to be overprotective. It is another to hide the world from her. She has no knowledge of the evils of the world, so she has no idea how to deal with the bullies. She has no idea about how to deal with her emotions and the sexual predators of the place she lives in. She has just been thrown into the deep end with no idea how to swim.

Also, 14-16 year olds are more mature than Emma. Apart from the fact that Emma designs over sexualised dresses that is.

Btw, another odd thing of Hillside is that no one seem to be aware of the internet and social media. I.e. why didn't the other Emma and Charlotte post that video to their social media (or an anonymous one)?.

 

[jackofarcades]

I agree with a lot of the complaints about Emma but I also love her to bits at times and want to pat her head.

Started Summer Scent and came to see if it had been discussed here. I see a few people mentioned it.

It's quite melodramatic but I'm enjoying all of the characters. I'm only on my first branch right now but I was struck by the way the sex scenes were written. It's really giving me insight to the LI in ways most games don't, and they're much more realistic in some ways - such as the MC not being very good at first, and having normal anxiety about his performance and looking up how to get better.