Recommending Story-first games

5.00 star(s) 8 Votes

Raife

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May 16, 2018
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For the past several chapters, Sharon has been saying "we are the Archon of this place," and it grates on my nerves. Why does her position need to be defined in deference to her inexperienced male sidekick? MC is a decent guy, but he still has little to no idea how this society (that he has just been introduced to) works. Why would he be allowed any say in leadership matters, and why would Sharon so easily surrender her own agency? It's lazy writing intended to stroke the reader's ego by undeservingly elevating the MC.
Yeah, I agree... it is lazy writing designed to flatter the player's ego. But, as annoying as it is, there is still a lot of intriguing stuff going on here, including in the narrative and relationship dynamics:
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There's a lot of storytelling going on in this game, and unlike 95% of the content on this site, most of it is interesting. Even the subplots are diverting!
 

jufot

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May 15, 2021
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But, as annoying as it is, there is still a lot of intriguing stuff going on here, including in the narrative and relationship dynamics
Oh, definitely. I'm still 100% invested in the game :)
 

Raife

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May 16, 2018
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Oh, definitely. I'm still 100% invested in the game :)
Me too. We might have had a 'Chekhov's gun' moment in the middle of this episode, when Calisto mentioned casually that she had met Frank before, years ago, digging around the foundations of her Temple.

That can't have been a random line.
 

jufot

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Me too. We might have had a 'Chekhov's gun' moment in the middle of this episode, when Calisto mentioned casually that she had met Frank before, years ago, digging around the foundations of her Temple.
Yeah, she definitely has history with the Nos, and I imagine she has a good idea of what's happening in that cave as well. Time will tell.
 

Jaike

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Aug 24, 2020
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As I imagine it is to most people.
I'd hope so, but I don't think it turns most people off for days.

One part that really stands out is out to me is jufot's and Raife's conversation about how having sex with a drunk girl is rape. It's especially interesting to me when we talk about how attitudes and morals have changed over the years (and centuries!). I say this because I've been making erotic games for something like 15 years now, and I've seen that change in just that short amount of time.

What actually got me to start making games is that a developer (who I adore) had a mechanic in a popular game where you had to find the right amount of alcohol to convince the LI to have sex with you but not so much that she'd pass out. I saw a lot of games copying this mechanism, and it made me uncomfortable. So in order to combat that, I started writing my own games, where alcohol wasn't part of the equation.

The developer (who I still adore) remade the game and took the alcohol out. I don't know how much I influenced that and how much of it was changes in society, but this isn't the ancient Greeks. This was less that two decades ago.
You are right, Tlaero: society and social mores were different in the rich world 20 years ago (and they are still different in many other places). There were a lot of things that went on then that society (and, especially, the legal system) would see differently now. It wasn't long ago.

But...

I was an adult 20 years ago, and we _knew_ that forcing sex on a dead-drunk woman, or deliberately plying a woman with booze for sex, were wrong. We had different names for it... although rape was definitely one of them, even if prosecutions were rare.
  • There were some bars -- and some men -- that were 'safe' and others that were 'not safe.'
  • 'Taking advantage of' someone was a euphemism for impaired non-consent. When we went out together as a group, that was something that always worried some of us at the end of the night... I hated the fag end of parties, when I often found myself extricating friends from uncomfortable (or very, very comfortable) situations. It was no win for me. I felt like a paternalistic jerk, at times... but... it was the right thing to do.
So... again, I agree with you... social mores and the legal system have changed in many countries -- mostly in a very positive sense -- over the past 20 years. But the 'wrong' of it... was always there. We knew. You knew... which is why you influenced your friend (the other dev) that way.
I was a young child 15 years ago so fortunately I can't speak for sexual mores back then, but I feel that in my social circles, not just my age bracket but also older people with uni education, the view that sex with drunk people is rape has been dominant in the last five years. But that isn't the norm everywhere and you could expect different views in working-class circles, some immigrant communities or in politically divergent groupings like the alt right.

On the other hand, legislation about rape hasn't kept up with that development in my country and there's a large controversy ongoing about rape and sexual abuse in the workplace. Legislation to require affirmative consent has been planned for like three years now but hasn't been completed yet.

So in order to combat that, I started writing my own games, where alcohol wasn't part of the equation.

...

So, I guess from the start I've been trying to induce good behavior in people with my games. Just makes my love for violent shooters all the more questionable. Not that I'm going to stop. :)
I think I remember the part in Redemption for Jessika that was about the MC taking care of a drunk Jessika and not abusing her. Not sure but I think it used the exact words "taking advantage". I guess that was one deliberate response to that alcohol mechanic?
 
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Raife

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Remember the part in Redemption for Jessika that was about the MC taking care of a drunk Jessika and not abusing her. Not sure but I think it used the exact words "taking advantage". I guess that was one deliberate response to that alcohol mechanic?
I loved that bit... it hit close to home, and stirred a few memories. Tlearo is one of those rare devs who leaves me with a warm feeling after playing her games (Dark Blue is another...). They make me feel good... or 'clean' if that makes any sense.
 
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Raife

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So... screwing around before making dinner, and trying to sort out which story-first devs I'll increase my support for in Feb. I'll leave off mentioning those who I'm cutting, or those who I've supported for 1,000 years and will continue to back until they die of old age (Tora Productions, sqwl, etc). They are:
  • SilverLust: a third fantastic chapter of a freakishly brilliant and intelligent game.
  • Dark Blue: is still beating himself up about the delay in his last release, and needs a morale-boosting message.
  • Badtimes: because he's heroically trying to fit development of his promising game into an overloaded schedule.
Anyone else? Who am I forgetting? Nominations?
 

Tlaero

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Nov 24, 2018
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I think I remember the part in Redemption for Jessika that was about the MC taking care of a drunk Jessika and not abusing her. Not sure but I think it used the exact words "taking advantage". I guess that was one deliberate response to that alcohol mechanic?
Yes, there was a part where Jess was drunk and throwing herself at you, and you had to choose whether to go with it or not. The situation worked out that regardless of which you chose, it didn't happen, but the game considered you trying to help her rather than take advantage of her as a positive thing and the reverse as a negative one. The inner turmoil in your character was, "I've wanted this woman for a long time, but do I really want it like THIS?"

I don't think that was a deliberate response to the alcohol mechanic, though. I had written 6 or 7 other games by that point. Though I often don't know where I get my ideas. Sometimes I'm surprised when I go back and play one of my earlier games and I realize that I blatantly plagiarized it in a later game. :)

Tlaero
 
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jufot

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Anyone else? Who am I forgetting? Nominations?
Looking at my Patreon and skipping the ones you've mentioned (I subscribe to all 5 of those), from highest to lowest tier:

- for Intertwined
- for Divergence: Beyond The Singularity
- for Rebirth
- for Leap of Faith
- for Mad World
- for Unbroken

and, as a bonus, for Retro Style Soviet Undies

I've skipped a few that aren't all that story driven, but I'm happy with this list :)
 
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Jaike

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So... screwing around before making dinner, and trying to sort out which story-first devs I'll increase my support for in Feb. I'll leave off mentioning those who I'm cutting, or those who I've supported for 1,000 years and will continue to back until they die of old age (Tora Productions, sqwl, etc). They are:
  • SilverLust: a third fantastic chapter of a freakishly brilliant and intelligent game.
  • Dark Blue: is still beating himself up about the delay in his last release, and needs a morale-boosting message.
  • Badtimes: because he's heroically trying to fit development of his promising game into an overloaded schedule.
Anyone else? Who am I forgetting? Nominations?
Have you considered stoper, the developer of Jessica O'Neil's Hard News? That game is one of the better and more story-driven slice-of-life games, so far without the forced nonsense that often pops up in games of that genre. (I strongly recommend you to try the game before supporting btw.)
 
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jufot

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Have you considered stoper, the developer of Jessica O'Neil's Hard News? That game is one of the better and more story-driven slice-of-life games, so far without the forced nonsense that often pops up in games of that genre. (I strongly recommend you to try the game before supporting btw.)
I play that game by avoiding all male characters except Connor (Jessica's boyfriend) and that way, it's very enjoyable. Heather is a brilliant LI, and Shani shows promise as well. Unfortunately, the male cast are almost exclusively molesters and/or creeps, which is why I don't subscribe to stoper's Patreon :)
 

Jaike

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Aug 24, 2020
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I play that game by avoiding all male characters except Connor (Jessica's boyfriend) and that way, it's very enjoyable. Heather is a brilliant LI, and Shani shows promise as well.
Hah, you and me both. But I like that Jessica can still flirt with the creeps without *BAM* forced sexual abuse and forced submission. But some of the men turn out better if you don't give them any ideas (now that's cutting-edge realism in adult gaming) and some are just way too creepy and pushy for anything.

Unfortunately, the male cast are almost exclusively molesters and/or creeps, which is why I don't subscribe to stoper's Patreon :)
Fair enough. Just one non-creepy male (potential) LI is all I ever asked for, and it's even better if the MC is already in a relationship with him and not forced to cheat.
 
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jufot

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But I like that Jessica can still flirt with the creeps without *BAM* forced sexual abuse and forced submission.
Oh, definitely. Jessica has real agency and isn't forced into anything, creepy or not. I wouldn't have been able to play it otherwise.

But some of the men turn out better if you don't give them any ideas (now that's cutting-edge realism in adult gaming)
That's good to hear, though I'm still not interested in any of the guys :D
 

Tlaero

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Nov 24, 2018
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I didn't get very far with JOHN. If I remember correctly, she wakes up and masturbates in the shower because she "needs some release." Then, not long after, she starts flirting with another woman even though she's straight. I remember thinking, "She's not a woman. She's a man with breasts."

I know very well that female POV games are a hard sell for the general audience for these games, though. I'm happy for stoper's success. But I wasn't enjoying the game.

Tlaero
 

jufot

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May 15, 2021
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Then, not long after, she starts flirting with another woman even though she's straight. I remember thinking, "She's not a woman. She's a man with breasts."
For my own headcanon, I choose to interpret that as Jessica exploring her latent bisexuality. Perhaps it's even an act of defiance against heteronormative societal expectations!

That's a poor justification, of course, but it helps me avoid cognitive dissonance :)
 

Raife

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May 16, 2018
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Looking at my Patreon and skipping the ones you've mentioned (I subscribe to all 5 of those), from highest to lowest tier.
- for Intertwined
Already on my list -- she works like a dog... I keep lecturing her about being too ambitious and she keeps (rightly) ignoring me.

- for Divergence: Beyond The Singularity
I need to try this one... and I will.

- for Rebirth
Of course... I'd hardly praise his game in detail and not support him! Have been a backer for years.

- for Leap of Faith
I just can't get in to this game. I LOVE one of the LIs -- you know who I mean, jufot -- but can't get past the 'magic penis' MC factor. I understand why it's one of your favourite games... but it doesn't focus on her enough.

- for Mad World
Need to try this one. Really need to try this one.

- for Unbroken
I couldn't get into the dev's first game at all... but I've enjoyed the first two chapters of Unbroken. Could get there eventually.

and, as a bonus, for Retro Style Soviet Undies
Crap, I keep forgetting to try _Soviet Undies_... looks fantastic!

Thanks!
 

jufot

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May 15, 2021
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[Nyx for Intertwined] Already on my list -- she works like a dog... I keep lecturing her about being too ambitious and she keeps (rightly) ignoring me.
I admire her very much. She was driven off F95 by the hate mob, but she refused to give in, and stuck to her original vision. The non-F95 community (both on Patreon and Discord) is very supportive of her. Recently, she had a Patreon poll about pairing MC's mom with a lover of her own, and the comments & suggestions were surprisingly decent. I didn't see a single NTR screed :)

[Leap of Faith] I just can't get in to this game. I LOVE one of the LIs -- you know who I mean, jufot -- but can't get past the 'magic penis' MC factor. I understand why it's one of your favourite games... but it doesn't focus on her enough.
For me, it's mostly about the humour. It's goofy screwball comedy, dotted by sombre moments for each LI. I don't know, it just... clicked for me. I've also found out that it's a personal story for Drifty, who lost someone to suicide.

[STWADev] I couldn't get into the dev's first game at all... but I've enjoyed the first two chapters of Unbroken. Could get there eventually.
Likewise, the first game isn't very remarkable. I'm only in it for Unbroken, and the dev is exploiting my weakness with not one but two read-headed LIs :p

Crap, I keep forgetting to try _Soviet Undies_... looks fantastic!
One of the criteria I mentioned in the main post of this thread is "no Engrish." RSSU completely violates that, but it works extremely well! The English is broken in a way you'd expect from an ordinary Soviet citizen of the 80s. It really adds to the immersion. The story revolves around a very porny myth about an ancient Greek artefact, and there are numerous 80s cultural references, especially that of the Soviets. I find it immensely enjoyable :)
 

Raife

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I admire her very much. She was driven off F95 by the hate mob, but she refused to give in, and stuck to her original vision. The non-F95 community (both on Patreon and Discord) is very supportive of her. Recently, she had a Patreon poll about pairing MC's mom with a lover of her own, and the comments & suggestions were surprisingly decent. I didn't see a single NTR screed
Likewise. The treatment she received on this site in the recent past was absolutely appalling. It's one of the (many) reasons why I basically hate F95 and don't trust the staff. I am always happy to see the regular posters on your thread, and feel comfortable on other threads when I see our regulars there... but there are some truly creepy people out there... and they have a tendency to fixate on female devs.
 
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jufot

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It's one of the (many) reasons why I basically hate F95 and don't trust the staff. I am always happy to see the regular posters on your thread, and feel comfortable on other threads when I see our regulars there
Oh, definitely. Without the regulars from this thread, the forum would be untolerable for me. I try to limit my interactions outside this thread to a minimum, or at least to low-traffic threads. As for staff, the only one I've actually interacted with is Sam, who is nice, but that was only for technical stuff. Beyond that, I try to avoid attracting moderator attention :)
 
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Nyravrod

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Having a look at my Patreon several of those are already in my list but among those not mentioned yet I have:

(< 400 Patrons): Great story in Sorcerer and TRS and can't wait for another look at the TRS universe.

(< 200 Patrons): For Price of Power, Love myself a slow burn romance and a great story to boot.

(< 200 Patrons): Because Callisto's mechanics were interesting and I am partial to a good sci-fi story

(< 300 Patrons): After playing One Day at a time I had to show some support, we need more stories like this

(< 800 Patrons): Recent subscription for me but after seeing the quality of the releases in Artemis I'm looking forward to more and with that cadence and quality the dev has to be pushing for full time so needs some support.

I have limited budget allocated to Patreon so I tend to support smaller creators as the list above shows.
I tend to consider that any creator below 1000 pledges is in need of more support, the way I see it 1000 pledges is a rough estimate of when a creator can start considering being able to do this full time (Obviously situations and locations change a lot).
My take on it is if I enjoy something I want the creator of that art to be able to focus on it and not have to worry about balancing work and creation hence why I prioritise my pledges that way.

I do have 2 exceptions to that :

: Because not only Light of my Life has very well written characters but it also has an interesting style and more diverse models and I want to support that.

: Because there is no better Romance story that I have read/played this year than Sunstone. Honestly if you have not read Sunstone yet what are you doing, go read it now ^^

Also side mention of (< 200 Patrons) a patreon of a small youtube creator that is dedicated to reviewing adult games and for a new creator (around 1 year I believe) she is doing a pretty good job so far. As a step to break the stigma and get Adult Games more maintstream recognitions this type of content will be needed so it got my support.

Edit:
Thanks for the push at reviewing my pledges and the creators I have or not supported, just realised that has less than 500 pledges yet I was not supporting them yet. Swiftly corrected that how in the word do Tlaero and MortzeArt not have more support is beyond me.
 
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5.00 star(s) 8 Votes