JJ1960

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Not necessarily. they could just be put in cryo for transport and are reactivated again on Pandora. We also shouldn't believe the other echo units when they say stuff like that, since they are programmed to not think about stuff that would make them realize they are Echos.

The only thing this wouldn't explain is why in this scenario Skylar would be reactivated, but I've got a feeling that the culprit would be behind it.
The Echos have to be in cryo since part of their system converts the food they eat into fuel for their bodies. If they weren't in stasis they would starve to death. Their wake-up should also mimic a normal human one or that could tip somebody off that there is something weird about those 5 women that they might get curious about.

If the culprit initiated the wakeups mid-voyage it would make a lot of sense to ensure that a doctor was one of the people since they would be able to render assistance in the case of a problem with the others that get defrosted en route (including MC, who is the most important one). If they don't know Skylar is an Echo then she would be the best candidate based on the false credentials that were provided for her biographical file (having a stellar medical history from Earth gives her enormous credibility when supporting MC's takeover). If not the culprit there could be a ship protocol that in the event of a major event a doctor gets awoken to tend to any medical emergencies that might have injured the other passengers, and again Skylar is the best candidate based on her records.
 

MarsUltor

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Does anyone here remember (or have notes regarding) in what order the awake people on the Endurance were awakened?

I think I may be on to something...
 

Chillout1984

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The Echos have to be in cryo since part of their system converts the food they eat into fuel for their bodies. If they weren't in stasis they would starve to death. Their wake-up should also mimic a normal human one or that could tip somebody off that there is something weird about those 5 women that they might get curious about.

If the culprit initiated the wakeups mid-voyage it would make a lot of sense to ensure that a doctor was one of the people since they would be able to render assistance in the case of a problem with the others that get defrosted en route (including MC, who is the most important one). If they don't know Skylar is an Echo then she would be the best candidate based on the false credentials that were provided for her biographical file (having a stellar medical history from Earth gives her enormous credibility when supporting MC's takeover). If not the culprit there could be a ship protocol that in the event of a major event a doctor gets awoken to tend to any medical emergencies that might have injured the other passengers, and again Skylar is the best candidate based on her records.
Not necessarily. They could just be turned off or put in standby mode or something during the trip, at the same moment they're memory is wiped. They may think they're humans, but in essence they're still an advanced kind of android. If the resource system is as advanced as Miranda says it is, they would be produced with the long trip in mind.

Does anyone here remember (or have notes regarding) in what order the awake people on the Endurance were awakened?

I think I may be on to something...
I was thinking the same thing as well yesterday. Now looking at the script, but kind of hard to find without knowing the exact sentence. This is the closest I've gotten so far:

mc "Do you know who was the first to wake up?"
mc "I've been wondering about that since yesterday..."
camila "I can't say for certain, I never asked."
camila "It was either Umiko, Skylar, Ishani, Lira or Zara."
mc "That's positions 1-5, then. In some order..."
 
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JJ1960

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Not necessarily. They could just be turned off or put in standby mode or something during the trip, at the same moment they're memory is wiped. They may think they're humans, but in essence they're still an advanced kind of android. If the resource system is as advanced as Miranda says it is, they would be produced with the long trip in mind.
But you have to remember that somebody is going to wake everyone up on the ship. If all 5 Echos are in cryo then someone who knows what they are would have to do whatever activation is needed. It can't be MC since he's on an entirely different ship from them and the girls who might know are also in cryo, which takes many hours or days for them to be back functional again so they couldn't just hop up and interdict the normal wakeup process to get to the Echos before someone else does. Plus if they are just turned off and laying in their pods the health monitoring is going to go berserk thinking they are dead or something is wrong with them. The Echos have to appear to be human and go into cryosleep just like all the other passengers. The whole point is for them to not stand out in any way whatsoever until MC is prepared to reveal their nature some point many months or years from arrival.
 

Chillout1984

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But you have to remember that somebody is going to wake everyone up on the ship. If all 5 Echos are in cryo then someone who knows what they are would have to do whatever activation is needed. It can't be MC since he's on an entirely different ship from them and the girls who might know are also in cryo, which takes many hours or days for them to be back functional again so they couldn't just hop up and interdict the normal wakeup process to get to the Echos before someone else does. Plus if they are just turned off and laying in their pods the health monitoring is going to go berserk thinking they are dead or something is wrong with them. The Echos have to appear to be human and go into cryosleep just like all the other passengers. The whole point is for them to not stand out in any way whatsoever until MC is prepared to reveal their nature some point many months or years from arrival.
That's why I said none of the echos (except maybe Skylar) were in cryo, while the rest was just turned off/standby stored in case(s). Also, why would health monitoring go berserk while they're in storage? They're machines, they're not humans. They won't stand out during the trip if nobody knows about them except for the people from MirSky.
 

JJ1960

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That's why I said none of the echos (except maybe Skylar) were in cryo, while the rest was just turned off/standby stored in case(s). Also, why would health monitoring go berserk while they're in storage? They're machines, they're not humans. They won't stand out during the trip if nobody knows about them except for the people from MirSky.
People suddenly appearing on a planet with strict and heavily-documented emigration is going to cause someone to get curious. If you put them in a cryo pod and "turn them off" as you say, that's going to make the monitoring show something abnormal before the ship even gets out of Earth orbit.
I'm not going to argue anymore about this since you don't seem to get that the Echos doing anything different from a normal human risks them being found out too soon and blowing up the plans for MC. They have to mimic them in every respect, including slow recovery from their cryo state, for them to fully pass.
 
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Rehwyn

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Alright, I shared them in Discord, so I might as well repost some of my own theories here too.
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I briefly touched on this above, but I'll expand on it:
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TL;DR (yes, this is the short version):
Likeliest “culprit” = a hacked Echo (e.g., Cerys), not a human; tragedy-of-control, not malice.

Big picture motive: the sabotage created a Paige-development sandbox - MC as her human interface, the awakened women as the emotional dataset.

It backfired: amnesia MC built trust/community, teaching Paige care over control - bad news for anyone trying to recruit a power-hungry MC.

Suspect reshuffles: Pandora redemption (help unhack), Ishani possible Synthstar defector/pressure-valve misdirect, Skylar argues identity > origin, Paige/MC move toward full disclosure.

Optional twist: “Orient Express” angle - multiple people indirectly enabled the sabotage. No LI purely guilty, but some not wholly innocent either.

Sequel setup: enemies now know about Echoes; the mystery shifts from who did it to how we live with what we learned.
 
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MarsUltor

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Alright, I shared them in Discord, so I might as well repost some of my own theories here too.
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I briefly touched on this above, but I'll expand on it:
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TL;DR (yes, this is the short version):
Likeliest “culprit” = a hacked Echo (e.g., Cerys), not a human; tragedy-of-control, not malice.

Big picture motive: the sabotage created a Paige-development sandbox - MC as her human interface, the awakened women as the emotional dataset.

It backfired: amnesia MC built trust/community, teaching Paige care over control - bad news for anyone trying to recruit a power-hungry MC.

Suspect reshuffles: Pandora redemption (help unhack), Ishani possible Synthstar defector/pressure-valve misdirect, Skylar argues identity > origin, Paige/MC move toward full disclosure.

Optional twist: “Orient Express” angle - multiple people indirectly enabled the sabotage. No LI purely guilty, but some not wholly innocent either.

Sequel setup: enemies now know about Echoes; the mystery shifts from who did it to how we live with what we learned.
These are really interesting theories, and I can see how most, if not all of them could be possible.

In the meantime, as I was trying to channel my own inner Sherlock Holmes, picking through the Day 20 revelations, as well as past saves containing other clues, I had a "mind blown" epiphany about the culprit(s) and what will happen in Day 21. Consequently, I spent the rest of yesterday as well as this morning both fleshing out my theories and trying to poke holes in them, and I have to say that I have a pretty high degree of confidence that at least part of them are accurate, and honestly I think it's likely that most if not all of them are.

With that said, here goes...

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<puts on flameproof suit and awaits response & reaction>
 

Rehwyn

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These are really interesting theories, and I can see how most, if not all of them could be possible.

In the meantime, as I was trying to channel my own inner Sherlock Holmes, picking through the Day 20 revelations, as well as past saves containing other clues, I had a "mind blown" epiphany about the culprit(s) and what will happen in Day 21. Consequently, I spent the rest of yesterday as well as this morning both fleshing out my theories and trying to poke holes in them, and I have to say that I have a pretty high degree of confidence that at least part of them are accurate, and honestly I think it's likely that most if not all of them are.

With that said, here goes...

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<puts on flameproof suit and awaits response & reaction>
Some interesting ideas for sure. Don't quite have time to fully respond now, but regarding the Lexi thing, I haven't played the Claire/Bethany route either, so I asked someone in Discord if there was equivalent dialogue a day ago. They responded with this:
Spoilers for Beth/Claire route. Bethany wakes up - she doesn't say anything about the culprit. Although MC tries to ask about it he doesn't word it right and she is too out of it. As she is falling back asleep she says "use the echos to help" but she doesn't know which one is on the endurance - Miranda never told her. Then she falls back asleep and MC falls to the ground as his memories are restored.
So it doesn't seem to mirror the dialogue from Lexi about thinking she knows who the culprit is or possible body modification. It's possible that's a Lexi specific thing, but I suspect since it's exclusive to one branch it may be flavor to show her delirious state or a red herring.
 
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JJ1960

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These are really interesting theories, and I can see how most, if not all of them could be possible.

In the meantime, as I was trying to channel my own inner Sherlock Holmes, picking through the Day 20 revelations, as well as past saves containing other clues, I had a "mind blown" epiphany about the culprit(s) and what will happen in Day 21. Consequently, I spent the rest of yesterday as well as this morning both fleshing out my theories and trying to poke holes in them, and I have to say that I have a pretty high degree of confidence that at least part of them are accurate, and honestly I think it's likely that most if not all of them are.

With that said, here goes...

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<puts on flameproof suit and awaits response & reaction>

Interesting theory. Here are my thoughts:

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ruby_rubicon

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i don't know...this update for now it leaves me a bittersweet taste.....it has lost a bit of the humor that had, , in exchange of to much non sense yapping...to much yapping without so much sensew. hope it become better forward and return to how it was....considering how much time it taken...it will be a long wait again
I dunno, I laughed a lot, as always, and then I got creeped out by
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and sad about
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. He did it, I knew I cared about the characters and then he went and reminded me I did.

Thanks for a great update Wildman Dev . 2026 can't come soon enough! DLC or not I'll be there.
 
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Ripe

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Alright, I shared them in Discord, so I might as well repost some of my own theories here too.
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
I briefly touched on this above, but I'll expand on it:
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
TL;DR (yes, this is the short version):
Likeliest “culprit” = a hacked Echo (e.g., Cerys), not a human; tragedy-of-control, not malice.

Big picture motive: the sabotage created a Paige-development sandbox - MC as her human interface, the awakened women as the emotional dataset.

It backfired: amnesia MC built trust/community, teaching Paige care over control - bad news for anyone trying to recruit a power-hungry MC.

Suspect reshuffles: Pandora redemption (help unhack), Ishani possible Synthstar defector/pressure-valve misdirect, Skylar argues identity > origin, Paige/MC move toward full disclosure.

Optional twist: “Orient Express” angle - multiple people indirectly enabled the sabotage. No LI purely guilty, but some not wholly innocent either.

Sequel setup: enemies now know about Echoes; the mystery shifts from who did it to how we live with what we learned.
I have to disagree with you on "likeliest culprit"... it have to be one of the girls.

After all the build up we had about finding the cuprit and all the drama about what will Pandora do once she come on board, after everything we had did in order to prevent Pandora potentially killing someone we get to care about, to have the culprit turn out to be someone we haven't even met by this point and don't really care about would be a huge let down and "cop out" by Wildman. So no, the culprit will have to be one of the girls... most likely Ishani or Umiko (with Marissa and Sasha being next in line).

Besides, not everything have to be some huge twist and surprise... we got a pretty big twist on Day 20 with everything that happened, so having "culprit" turn out to be someone we suspected from Day 1 would be perfectly fine.
 

LordGonti

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I have to disagree with you on "likeliest culprit"... it have to be one of the girls.

After all the build up we had about finding the cuprit and all the drama about what will Pandora do once she come on board, after everything we had did in order to prevent Pandora potentially killing someone we get to care about, to have the culprit turn out to be someone we haven't even met by this point and don't really care about would be a huge let down and "cop out" by Wildman. So no, the culprit will have to be one of the girls... most likely Ishani or Umiko (with Marissa and Sasha being next in line).

Besides, not everything have to be some huge twist and surprise... we got a pretty big twist on Day 20 with everything that happened, so having "culprit" turn out to be someone we suspected from Day 1 would be perfectly fine.

Totally agree, the reveal as it stands is just as interesting as another twist and I'd like to see how it plays out between MC, culprit and Pandora and we've got just enough time to do it.

I believe the story needs MC to have identified and spoken to the culprit before Pandora arrives to reach a satisfying conclusion. Pandora turning up and pointing the finger at someone new could feel a bit odd and leaves too much to do. If we're ending on a bombshell it'll be Echo related.
 

Rehwyn

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I have to disagree with you on "likeliest culprit"... it have to be one of the girls.

After all the build up we had about finding the cuprit and all the drama about what will Pandora do once she come on board, after everything we had did in order to prevent Pandora potentially killing someone we get to care about, to have the culprit turn out to be someone we haven't even met by this point and don't really care about would be a huge let down and "cop out" by Wildman. So no, the culprit will have to be one of the girls... most likely Ishani or Umiko (with Marissa and Sasha being next in line).

Besides, not everything have to be some huge twist and surprise... we got a pretty big twist on Day 20 with everything that happened, so having "culprit" turn out to be someone we suspected from Day 1 would be perfectly fine.
Totally agree, the reveal as it stands is just as interesting as another twist and I'd like to see how it plays out between MC, culprit and Pandora and we've got just enough time to do it.

I believe the story needs MC to have identified and spoken to the culprit before Pandora arrives to reach a satisfying conclusion. Pandora turning up and pointing the finger at someone new could feel a bit odd and leaves too much to do. If we're ending on a bombshell it'll be Echo related.
The thing is, you can have one (or more) of the LIs be partially guilty without being the actual culprit, or in the way you expect. That's essentially the "Murder on the Orient Express" ending I alluded to.

For example, it's entirely possible that if a hacked Echo is the culprit, it could be Skylar and she was hacked in such a way that she doesn't remember committing any sabotaging acts. Or maybe Ishani did work for Synthstar and is partially responsible for some work that led up to the events, but she realized the full extend of what Synthstar planned and tried to defect and stop the actual culprit. So in a way, they both would be "guilty" but not like you might expect. In fact, Skylar being hacked and having her memory of it erased would mirror MC's amnesia and his own coming to terms with the bad things he did during it.

I do not think that the culprit is going to just be a classically "bad guy" to be found and punished or imprisoned. That would be a resolution that feels far too telegraphed and out of character compared to every other major plot point so far, in my opinion. Think about the various character histories and arcs so far, including the MC. Almost all of them have degrees of moral grey and treat “villainy” as a symptom of control, trauma, or misunderstanding, not as inherent evil. The story consistently frames resolving conflict around empathy, autonomy, and understanding rather than good-versus-evil binaries. There almost certainly will be at least some unexpected factor or twist that mitigates moral culpability at least partially or else it would undercut that through-line that's developed the whole game.

What I expect will happen is that evidence will strongly suggest one of the LIs is generally a "bad guy" culprit (like with Ishani), but for some last-minute revelations to resolve it in such a way that it's clear they aren't a "villain", leaving Pandora without good, strong motives to kill anyone. It's a classic pressure-valve and redirect approach to serialized storytelling. And based on what we know, I see a twist where either someone was hacked, blackmailed, or brainwashed into doing it, someone looks guilty but is secretly a double agent, or lots of people are guilty in small ways as the most likely resolution that's been building. And possibly even an ending that includes elements of all of these.
 
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Chillout1984

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The thing is, you can have one (or more) of the LIs be partially guilty without being the actual culprit, or in the way you expect. That's essentially the "Murder on the Orient Express" ending I alluded to.

For example, it's entirely possible that if a hacked Echo is the culprit, it could be Skylar and she was hacked in such a way that she doesn't remember committing any sabotaging acts. Or maybe Ishani did work for Synthstar and is partially responsible for some work that led up to the events, but she realized the full extend of what Synthstar planned and tried to defect and stop the actual culprit. So in a way, they both would be "guilty" but not like you might expect. In fact, Skylar being hacked and having her memory of it erased would mirror MC's amnesia and his own coming to terms with the bad things he did during it.

I do not think that the culprit is going to just be a classically "bad guy" to be found and punished or imprisoned. That's would be a resolution that feels far too telegraphed and out of character compared to every other major plot point so far, in my opinion. Think about the various character histories and arcs so far, including the MC. Almost all of them have degrees of moral grey and treat “villainy” as a symptom of control, trauma, or misunderstanding, not as inherent evil. The story consistently frames resolving conflict around empathy, autonomy, and understanding rather than good-versus-evil binaries. There almost certainly will be at least some unexpected factor or twist that mitigates moral culpability at least partially or else it would undercut that through-line that's developed the whole game.

What I expect will happen is that evidence will strongly suggest one of the LIs is generally a "bad guy" culprit (like with Ishani), but for some last-minute revelations to resolve it in such a way that it's clear they aren't a "villain", leaving Pandora without good motives to kill anyone. It's a classic pressure-valve and redirect approach to serialized storytelling. And based on what we know, I see a twist where either someone was hacked, blackmailed, or brainwashed into doing it, someone looks guilty but is secretly a double agent, or lots of people are guilty in small ways as the most likely way resolution that's been building. And possibly even an ending that includes elements of all of these.
Imo that is also kind of weird now that I think about it. Miranda said that the Echo units are closed networks so they can't be hacked, yet Paige (which has the potential to become way more powerful, if she isn't already) has been hacked by Pandora. You would think that if they took precautions with the Echo units, they would be even more cautious with Paige.
 

Rehwyn

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Imo that is also kind of weird now that I think about it. Miranda said that the Echo units are closed networks so they can't be hacked, yet Paige (which has the potential to become way more powerful, if she isn't already) has been hacked by Pandora. You would think that if they took precautions with the Echo units, they would be even more cautious with Paige.
Yep, that's why I speculate that the Echo units might be hackable using the same idle-period vulnerability. They are, after all, based on Paige's code since they are Echoes of her.

It wouldn't even necessarily have to be a complex hack: just enough to make it so someone other than MC can use the command passphrase.
 
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Chillout1984

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Yep, that's why I speculate that the Echo units might be hackable using the same idle-period vulnerability. They are, after all, based on Paige's code since they are Echoes of her.
We know however that Paige can still be hacked/connected externally. Pandora did so to remove the self destruction.
 

Rehwyn

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We know however that Paige can still be hacked/connected externally. Pandora did so to remove the self destruction.
Yes, unlike the Echoes, Paige retains networking capability rather than being a closed system. So the question then becomes if the Echoes were still able to be accessed in their idle state (via networked or perhaps even physical interface). Logically, they had to be accessible somehow at some point or else they wouldn't have been able to be shut down, have their memories wiped and rewritten, etc.
 
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