Others Strive: Conquest [v0.10.2 Experimental] [Maverik]

[ShippaiGakkari]

I actually meant how you got your stats up so quickly.

By clearing several bandit forts a day with two people. You can freeze targets and then hit them one by one if you want to, make the fight intentionally slow so you can make as much actions as you need to progress. You heal hundred and a half HP for 8 mana after all, and have several dozens of manashards from drop... and frozen enemies can't actually hit. With casters you can do whatever and win anyway. That's exactly why I suggest a rebalance.

There is only but one threat in early game for a caster duo - double assassination (fairy character starts fight in hide and thus can't be targeted), which is actually extremely uncommon.

 

[VithiaVale]

That's not even close to what happens in my game. I'm lucky if I can do one of the combat quests on the first day. And if I pick up a healing class at level 2, I get about 24 Hp per heal. I don't get anywhere near that many shards either.

 

[sandsea_urchin]

That's not even close to what happens in my game. I'm lucky if I can do one of the combat quests on the first day. And if I pick up a healing class at level 2, I get about 24 Hp per heal. I don't get anywhere near that many shards either.

You never, ever should cast heal without a wand. Cheesiest way to level stats that way, is to start out with the Mages' guild for the free staff. Pass it around to your healer with some mana left. Alternatively (for high HP fighters, mostly), get an attendant.
If you're a total scumbag, you could have your casters fight without a wand, and no weapons... And spend 5-10+ rounds easy battles grinding up stats, abusing freeze and stun. 100G bandits den are easy, close to the mansion, and you're guaranteed a profit reselling the captured leader.
Oh, and use date when the stats get high. Dates raise a stat from 108 to 120 as easily as from 0 to 10, while battles get much slwoer over time.

I also tend to avoid Druids (speed+ and mass heal are better on a veteran mage), because they put you one step away from Caster, but I'm surprised there's so much racism against Orcs. The guys have Berserker class with the best fighter AoE, but no one uses them... Orc sad, no elves to play with

 

[doomdoging1]

i like to see dominate slaves forcing themselves on submissive masters

 

[khumak]

That's not even close to what happens in my game. I'm lucky if I can do one of the combat quests on the first day. And if I pick up a healing class at level 2, I get about 24 Hp per heal. I don't get anywhere near that many shards either.

If you're going the caster route definitely make sure to pick the mage guild for the free staff. It makes a big difference when healing, and if you only have 1 staff you can pass it around when one mage gets low on mana from heals. Get a second staff asap even if you have to buy one.

Caster is your money maker so you want to beeline for that. Healer or Druid also helps a ton, especially if you're fighting with more than 2 people. I actually start my main character off as an archer when I'm going the magic route though because I would rather have the extra mana and the fireball/lesser heal combo than the one from apprentice. So I give the staff to my first slave initially. Also don't forget to date your primary slave and do wits training with her to pump up that wits stat initially. That gets you both more damage and better heals.

The key to really dominating with the casters though is a combination of speed and AOEs. If you get your speed up around 60 or so and get caster you can wipe out most dungeons without any of the opponents ever even getting a turn and that includes the assassins. The only problematic enemy for me is the mimic early on since it takes me more than 2 attacks to kill him. It's not uncommon for me to clear out a bandit fort and not even need to heal anyone.

One thing to keep in mind though if you're clearing out more than 1 dungeon per day is that there is a maximum number of dungeons you can have active at once. So unless you have 10-15 slaves coming in behind you to clear out all of the resources you may wind up having to just forget the location without getting the resources so you can buy another one. Both the bandit den and the bandit fort are great for that since there's a boss at the end you can enslave. So you can easily ramp up to 10+ slaves without buying any the first week just by repeatedly clearing the den and/or the fort and selling off enough of the loot to buy another one.

 

[Evangelion-01]

If you're going the caster route definitely make sure to pick the mage guild for the free staff. It makes a big difference when healing, and if you only have 1 staff you can pass it around when one mage gets low on mana from heals. Get a second staff asap even if you have to buy one.

Caster is your money maker so you want to beeline for that. Healer or Druid also helps a ton, especially if you're fighting with more than 2 people. I actually start my main character off as an archer when I'm going the magic route though because I would rather have the extra mana and the fireball/lesser heal combo than the one from apprentice. So I give the staff to my first slave initially. Also don't forget to date your primary slave and do wits training with her to pump up that wits stat initially. That gets you both more damage and better heals.

The key to really dominating with the casters though is a combination of speed and AOEs. If you get your speed up around 60 or so and get caster you can wipe out most dungeons without any of the opponents ever even getting a turn and that includes the assassins. The only problematic enemy for me is the mimic early on since it takes me more than 2 attacks to kill him. It's not uncommon for me to clear out a bandit fort and not even need to heal anyone.

One thing to keep in mind though if you're clearing out more than 1 dungeon per day is that there is a maximum number of dungeons you can have active at once. So unless you have 10-15 slaves coming in behind you to clear out all of the resources you may wind up having to just forget the location without getting the resources so you can buy another one. Both the bandit den and the bandit fort are great for that since there's a boss at the end you can enslave. So you can easily ramp up to 10+ slaves without buying any the first week just by repeatedly clearing the den and/or the fort and selling off enough of the loot to buy another one.

However you can't enslave more people than you have empty rooms, so you also need to upgrade Mansion rooms atleast once for 10 slaves and twice if you didn't account master and first servant.
Another problem tends to be loyality or submission for several slaves, enslaved bosses start with 0 obedience and if you don't raise that fast they'll escape before long.

All of your builds also require several weeks of gameplay, putting aside the exp required for new classes cleaning out dungeons, travelling in between ensureing the captured ones don't escape etc. can't be done that easily... even if I speed run I'd atleast require 2-3 weeks to get even half of what you claim to achieve in a single week.

Mid game with several seasoned characters for most tasks I can reproduce that... but not right from the start

 

[khumak]

However you can't enslave more people than you have empty rooms, so you also need to upgrade Mansion rooms atleast once for 10 slaves and twice if you didn't account master and first servant.
Another problem tends to be loyality or submission for several slaves, enslaved bosses start with 0 obedience and if you don't raise that fast they'll escape before long.

All of your builds also require several weeks of gameplay, putting aside the exp required for new classes cleaning out dungeons, travelling in between ensureing the captured ones don't escape etc. can't be done that easily... even if I speed run I'd atleast require 2-3 weeks to get even half of what you claim to achieve in a single week.

Mid game with several seasoned characters for most tasks I can reproduce that... but not right from the start

This is the game I started yesterday. I actually have an even faster start planned for today. Only day 6 so far and already 8 slaves with another coming on day 7 when my slaves finish clearing out the other fort so I can buy another one.

This is a fairy start so the top 3 are the main character, my first slave, and my first fairy kid. Then we have bunny girl, and the rest are all random bandit leaders. This is me actually clearing out the resources as I go too, you can go faster if you just forget the location without clearing the resources if you really want to ramp up your slave count. I prefer to get the resources though.

I clear the bandit den on day 1 with just me and Melodee, that gets me Scholar and Melodee Druid (I started with Archer). Day 2 I clear the bandit den again so that gets me to 5 people and then also clear the goblin cave and grove (without gathering the resources. That also gets me Druid and Caster and it gets Melodee Thief and Engineer. I give sadism to most slaves so they can boost authority without me. Then I upgrade mansion rooms. From day 4 to day 7 I can clear 2 bandit forts per day until I bump up against the max number of dungeons. Then I have to either slow down or forget locations without gathering the resources. I'm thinking it would probably be faster to hold off on the grove and the goblin cave and focus exclusively on bandit dens and forts til you get to 10 people though and then do the goblin cave and grove.

 

[ShippaiGakkari]

even if I speed run I'd atleast require 2-3 weeks to get even half of what you claim to achieve in a single week.

Picrelated is what you can get on day 8 even without abusing anything, simply by clearing dungeons. Just don't do mundane things like gathering with your fighting team. Dating, having fun in private and traveling back and forth between mansion and mobs - that's all it takes.

If you're a total scumbag

... you hit ballistae with a mindblast. Don't do it, though, the game is broken even without abusing immunities or unequiping gear.

 

[Evangelion-01]

I normally play as either Dragonkin + Drow/Dark Elf Assistant for combat
or Harpy + Drow/Dark Elf Assistant for Charming Boss.
From my experience Fairies can't keep up with Drows in the long run, since Fairies are only good at healing.
Haven't checked with demons yet
But I gues I do concentrate on advancing my guild reputations at the beginning which does slow me down on the build up

 

[ShippaiGakkari]

I normally play as either Dragonkin + Drow/Dark Elf Assistant for combat
or Harpy + Drow/Dark Elf Assistant for Charming Boss.

Frankly, I picked races for roleplay purposes only. They just happen to be effective and unique. And on that playthrough the game gave me 2 dragonkin cute virgins bandit bosses with Excellent and Great Growth and 5-4 other stats, so I could abuse that and made another kind of 400+ HP walking nukes duo if I absolutely have to do so.

From my experience Fairies can't keep up with Drows in the long run

And what that means I don't even understand. Fairies have highest m.atk boost in the game which makes them both number one damage dealers and healers: long run, short run, medium... not that I care, though. And what is a long run anyway: I complete 4 story guild tasks on the next day from a point on the screenshot, watch princess blowing up stuff, close the game window...

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[Evangelion-01]

Frankly, I picked races for roleplay purposes only. They just happen to be effective and unique. And on that playthrough the game gave me 2 dragonkin cute virgins dandit bosses with Excellent and Great Growth and 5-4 other stats, so I could abuse it and make another kind of 400+ HP walking nukes duo if I absolutely have to do so.

And what that means I don't even understand. Fairies have highest m.atk boost in the game which makes them both number one damage dealers and healers: long run, short run, medium... not that I care, though. And what is a long run anyway: I complete 4 story guild tasks on the next day from a point on the screenshot, watch princess blowing up stuff, close the game window.

I would have to recheck the numbers... but Fairys give +8 M.Atck while drows give +5 and +10% hit chance
Also Fairys have a significant HP malus, while drows have a slight HP bonus, Drows don't get a malus on gathering aswell

 

[ShippaiGakkari]

I would have to recheck the numbers... but Fairys give +8 M.Atck while drows give +5 and +10% hit chance
Also Fairys have a significant HP malus, while drows have a slight HP bonus, Drows don't get a malus on gathering aswell

8 most certainly is a higher value than 5.
Hit chance is irrelevant in current version.
HP is irrelevant as well. And besides evading attacks is much more important early on than having high HP pool - you don't get hit, you don't need to heal, you don't have to spend mana, you can do more runs using the same amount of items, you get caster faster - GG WP. More so in case you absolutely have to speedrun and thus farm bandit forts underleveled, fairy has a chance to survive an assassination attempt while dark elf does not - you don't spend your exp on HP+ subclassess in the early stages of the game.
And gathering... to gather you need a worker, a foreman, other phys+ subclasses, a high phys factor and worker clothes - something you never pick on a caster, something which is present on every other bandit chief you capture. You don't chop wood with a necromancer in this game... or ever.

 

[khumak]

I would have to recheck the numbers... but Fairys give +8 M.Atck while drows give +5 and +10% hit chance
Also Fairys have a significant HP malus, while drows have a slight HP bonus, Drows don't get a malus on gathering aswell

Fairies have a 25 point boost to evasion so they get missed a lot compared to most races so that basically counteracts the health penalty except in cases where something can 1 shot them. They do have a hit point penalty and also a penalty to physical damage though. So fairies are generally the best mages but drow are more well rounded.

 

[Evangelion-01]

8 most certainly is a higher value than 5.
Hit chance is irrelevant in current version.
HP is irrelevant as well. And besides evading attacks is much more important early on than having high HP pool - you don't get hit, you don't need to heal, you don't have to spend mana, you can do more runs using the same amount of items, you get caster faster - GG WP. More so in case you absolutely have to speedrun and thus farm bandit forts underleveled, fairy has a chance to survive an assassination attempt while dark elf does not - you don't spend your exp on HP+ subclassess in the early stages of the game.
And gathering... to gather you need a worker, a foreman, other phys+ subclasses, a high phys factor and worker clothes - something you never pick on a caster, something which is present on every other bandit chief you capture. You don't chop wood with a necromancer in this game... or ever.

I suppose your play style just significantly diverts from mine.
For example you are hard pressed to avoid an AoE attack yourself even with an improved evade rate.
Lich for example has the strongest AoE of all enemies, but there are others that can also attack multiple enemies.
Until you can unlock Warrior classes that Upgrade speed you are in general the latest to act aswell.
Undead are resilent to cold attacks so your caster can't one shot them aswell, unless you have atleast 3-4 with an earth and an ice attack.
You are so focused on your bandits with your build that I wonder how well it will work once you face some other kind of enemies... even Trolls could cause you much grief from what it seems

 

[khumak]

I suppose your play style just significantly diverts from mine.
For example you are hard pressed to avoid an AoE attack yourself even with an improved evade rate.
Lich for example has the strongest AoE of all enemies, but there are others that can also attack multiple enemies.
Until you can unlock Warrior classes that Upgrade speed you are in general the latest to act aswell.
Undead are resilent to cold attacks so your caster can't one shot them aswell, unless you have atleast 3-4 with an earth and an ice attack.
You are so focused on your bandits with your build that I wonder how well it will work once you face some other kind of enemies... even Trolls could cause you much grief from what it seems

So from my experience 2 casters with high speed plus caster can 1 or 2 shot everything except the bosses before they get to do anything. 2 ice AOEs will kill the assassins outright. The ice aoe also frequently slows the target if it doesn't kill it outright so you get a second shot before they can react. The fact that casters are boosting their willpower and matk constantly means they also have really good heals so even when they take damage they frequently don't have to spend any resources to recover from it and just keep right on fighting.

There are a few bosses that are resistant to the ice AOE but as long as you also have lightning, fireball, mind blast, whatever that necromancer AOE is, etc you can either kill them with a different spell or at least use something like lightnight to disable them temporarily (trolls as an example have a lot of health but never get a move before I kill them). That's one of the reasons I prefer scholar over apprentice (fireball). The only enemy I have issues with is the mimic. He's got a lot of health, is resistant to most spells, and deals a ton of damage. So if I fight one sometimes he'll 1 shot someone before I can take him down. Usually that's a choice though, open a chest and it might be a mimic but usually you can just leave it if you don't want to fight him.

The physical builds can get comparably strong, it just takes longer from what I've noticed. If I start off as a dragonkin for instance there is no way I can duo the bandit den on day 1 if I'm focusing on physical abilities but I can with magic. Once you level up and get Dragonknight things change, but again it's tough to get there by day 1 or 2 like the casters can.

 

[ShippaiGakkari]

You are so focused on your bandits with your build that I wonder how well it will work once you face some other kind of enemies... even Trolls could cause you much grief from what it seems

Oneshot it with a basic fire arrow crit?
Undeads can be farmed almost right away even without any preparation as they are extremely slow, inflict literally no damage and are weak to fire - the most common element of all. It's just there isn't anything special about that places besides it being super easy.
Bandits on the other hand provide the most drop, exp, free characters sometimes of a quality better than you can ever create manually, their hideout is just next door, and resources gathered there are actually usefull. The previous versions had hard versions of dungeons - I farmed those, this one is capped at medium unfortunately, so the whole character building thing is meaningless once you reach caster and assassin subclasses.

 

[Evangelion-01]

So from my experience 2 casters with high speed plus caster can 1 or 2 shot everything except the bosses before they get to do anything. 2 ice AOEs will kill the assassins outright. The ice aoe also frequently slows the target if it doesn't kill it outright so you get a second shot before they can react. The fact that casters are boosting their willpower and matk constantly means they also have really good heals so even when they take damage they frequently don't have to spend any resources to recover from it and just keep right on fighting.

There are a few bosses that are resistant to the ice AOE but as long as you also have lightning, fireball, mind blast, whatever that necromancer AOE is, etc you can either kill them with a different spell or at least use something like lightnight to disable them temporarily (trolls as an example have a lot of health but never get a move before I kill them). That's one of the reasons I prefer scholar over apprentice (fireball). The only enemy I have issues with is the mimic. He's got a lot of health, is resistant to most spells, and deals a ton of damage. So if I fight one sometimes he'll 1 shot someone before I can take him down. Usually that's a choice though, open a chest and it might be a mimic but usually you can just leave it if you don't want to fight him.

The physical builds can get comparably strong, it just takes longer from what I've noticed. If I start off as a dragonkin for instance there is no way I can duo the bandit den on day 1 if I'm focusing on physical abilities but I can with magic. Once you level up and get Dragonknight things change, but again it's tough to get there by day 1 or 2 like the casters can.

Physical Warriors are better suited to deal with certain types of enemies... for example the undead, as they either possess AoE fire or single target holy attack.
For example my Frontline consist of 2 Dragonkin with the Dragonknight Class and Paladin, and a Seraph with Knight and Valkyirie Class.... all three have AoE Fire Attacks and the dragonkin a single hit Holy attack and the seraph a AoE holy attack.
The Mages in the back barely get into action as the warriors rip everything apart .
My main issue is that hybrid builds are good at the beginning or a certain type of enemy, but they get underwhelming in the later part of the game, focused chars tend to be weaker at the start but VERY fast grow over powering in mid and late game.
I'll have to try to recruit myself another Fairy from one of the groves to try her out in combat, but I don't have much hopes for her

 

[ShippaiGakkari]

For example my Frontline consist all three
The Mages in the back

I mean, that's probably the reason you progress so slowly. You can farm 3 different places with those forces at once. You could have made 3 teams of superstrong characters and farmed tones of drop, instead you have a full party of mediocres and no loot, because crypt.

You don't drag people to a fight if you don't need them, only when you want to fastlevel a character who can't fight on their own yet.

You might be right on one thing, though. It's probably more efficient to split stronk characters apart, assign a newbie or two to each and go farm 2 times more crypts than I farmed forts, that way I would have made not only more money, but leveled up the whole of my flock as well. In future versions I might do exactly that.

 

[khumak]

Physical Warriors are better suited to deal with certain types of enemies... for example the undead, as they either possess AoE fire or single target holy attack.
For example my Frontline consist of 2 Dragonkin with the Dragonknight Class and Paladin, and a Seraph with Knight and Valkyirie Class.... all three have AoE Fire Attacks and the dragonkin a single hit Holy attack and the seraph a AoE holy attack.
The Mages in the back barely get into action as the warriors rip everything apart .
My main issue is that hybrid builds are good at the beginning or a certain type of enemy, but they get underwhelming in the later part of the game, focused chars tend to be weaker at the start but VERY fast grow over powering in mid and late game.
I'll have to try to recruit myself another Fairy from one of the groves to try her out in combat, but I don't have much hopes for her

Yeah I suspect it'll matter more in the hard dungeons. I haven't played the previous versions so I've only seen medium. As Fuyuki mentioned, the real reasons to focus on the bandit forts are, they're close by so travel time is minimal, they get you lots of xp, lots of loot, they have useful resources for base building, they give you free slaves, and you can clear them out without taking any damage. I think Fuyuki risks clearing them earlier than I do for the faster start. I prefer to wait til I can guarantee they die without being able to act since you're out of commission for 3 days if you get taken down.

I suspect in the mid to late game I would want 3 big beefy tank types like dragonkin/orc/seraph or something soaking up damage in the front row and 2 or 3 fairies or drow in the back row raining down AOE death. I like to put Daisy in there as a bard as well. That yellow song gives speed, evasion, and attack if I remember right so whatever death machines you bring with you get to go first, more often, and get hit less often.

For the medium dungeons though, 2 ice AOEs will kill almost everything before they can even take 1 action. The necro AOE is even stronger but I think more things are resistant to it.

You can literally clear out an entire bandit fort without any of the enemies getting even a single action. The troll takes me 2 rounds to kill but he's slow so he's dead before he gets to do anything and anyone he's with dies in the first round before they can do anything as well. The undead are surprisingly weak. The physical builds are better suited for those but you can still wipe out all of the undead with a couple of those ice AOEs they're resistant to. I think the Druids vine AOE might work better on them, can't remember.

 

[ShippaiGakkari]

In previous versions not only there were harder dungeons present, the mob stats were increasing the deeper you went. So hard dungeons not only consisted of stronger unit types, but these units were much more potent because hard dungeons had many stages.

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