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cxx

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Doesn't really matter so far. The two MCs are friends, but live on different continents. You meet The Author's MC at the very beggining then never again (for now).
the way this game's mc is travelling they are bound to meet again.
 
Jun 8, 2021
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Just played this one for the first time. After The Author, I expected good flowing writing and an interesting story and it surely didn't disappoint. Been a while since I had that 'I really wish it wasn't over just yet' feeling after finishing an AVN in development.

While I have no romantic interest in her (goes for pretty much all of the 'main' girls), Els is probablý one of the most intriguing AVN characters I've seen.
I usually don't do multiple complete playthroughs (especially not without skipping), but I might just do that now to check out different choices and pay more attention to certain scenes.

On that note, what do people think Els meant when she said something along the lines of she and McNab have fundamentally different opinions on some things? Was it just a hint at McNab being gay?
 
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Bombmaster

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Just played this one for the first time. After The Author, I expected good flowing writing and an interesting story and it surely didn't disappoint. Been a while since I had that 'I really wish it wasn't over just yet' feeling after finishing an AVN in development.

While I have no romantic interest in her (goes for pretty much all of the 'main' girls), Els is probablý one of the most intriguing AVN characters I've seen.
I usually don't do multiple complete playthroughs (especially not without skipping), but I might just do that now to check out different choices and pay more attention to certain scenes.

On that note, what do people think Els meant when she said something along the lines of she and McNab have fundamentally different opinions on some things? Was it just a hint at McNab being gay?
Good that you liked.
Yes Els is the best girl, maybe because she is the one with more background and drama the only one coming closer being Amrit.


That being said, he should be gay or assexual /impotent, micro dick (unlikely)
 
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crabsinthekitchen

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On that note, what do people think Els meant when she said something along the lines of she and McNab have fundamentally different opinions on some things? Was it just a hint at McNab being gay?
I don't think it's "fundamentally different" if they both like guys
 

RoryTate

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On that note, what do people think Els meant when she said something along the lines of she and McNab have fundamentally different opinions on some things? Was it just a hint at McNab being gay?
I looked up where this is from, since I didn't really remember this part. So Els says this during the conversation where the MC asks her why he's so important to her and is her best friend, instead of someone she's known longer than him:

e "Alistair is my oldest friend, certainly. But not my best."
e "We adore each other, no doubt. And he's always been in my corner, but he and I have some fundamental differences of opinion."
e "And Reenie is a phenomenal attorney, with a heart of gold and a brain like a steel trap. But that doesn't put her at the top."
e "It's you. Since the day we met, I've just clicked with you."

The most straightforward interpretation here would be that she and the MC both have a love of violence, while McNab seemingly doesn't. We don't know too much about Alistair as readers yet in this regard, but describing him as having a more "calm demeanor" fits with the way he treats people like the shady "I Hate This Fucking Guy" promoter without being openly hostile toward him, unlike the MC who is ready to punch his lights out. I think this is the most likely interpretation because whatever trait Els is thinking about in this moment would be something that's a deciding factor between the MC and others as to her friendship.

I doubt it is a reference to the likely fact that McNab is gay. In a very real sense an attraction to men would be something McNab and Els share. And a possible attraction to the MC would be doubly-so bonding for them.

It might instead be related to Els's suspicious nature and her intelligence gathering on her friends. It seems to me that McNab is more of a "let people have their private lives" kind of person, and he and Els would definitely clash in that regard, given the way she pries and doesn't respect the personal boundaries of the MC. Els's Dad did remark that McNab is a "private" person ("Kid's pretty private."). The MC appears to be a bit more open about having his personal life made public, but that character trait is difficult to pin down at the moment.

Another possibility is that it has something to do with Els's family, or specifically her brother. McNab could hold some different opinion about someone in her family, since he knows them decently well (Els's Dad remarked that Alistair stopped by their house a lot, and Els's Mom would often stuff him full with her cooking). The biggest point of contention here could be that he thinks differently than Els does about her brother. Or perhaps he simply doesn't understand why she has become half-estranged from her family (Els's complicated familial relationships are hard to sum up in one word). This seems a bit less likely to me though because the MC doesn't really hold an opinion about the members of Els's family, so there is nothing for her to contrast with McNab and use to put the MC ahead in the "we just click" best friend category.

Perhaps it's a combination of a lot of things. She did say "some differences of opinion" after all, which could mean "opinions" plural.
 

Ragnar

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On that note, what do people think Els meant when she said something along the lines of she and McNab have fundamentally different opinions on some things? Was it just a hint at McNab being gay?
McNugget is a chill bro and doesn't give you shit if you don't want to open about your fee fees. Els on the other hand tries to open your heart like a heinz beanz can.
- Carl, how are you?
- I'm fine Elspeth.
- You're a lying fuck.
(Goes behind your back to dig info about your entire family)
 

RoryTate

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McNugget is a chill bro and doesn't give you shit if you don't want to open about your fee fees. Els on the other hand tries to open your heart like a heinz beanz can.
But how is the MC different from McNab as regards being chill about people's private lives? The context for this quote is that Els thinks she "clicks" with the MC, but not with McNab, so the trait she's thinking about should be something that strongly differentiates between the two.
 

Ragnar

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But how is the MC different from McNab as regards being chill about people's private lives? The context for this quote is that Els thinks she "clicks" with the MC, but not with McNab, so the trait she's thinking about should be something that strongly differentiates between the two.
Don't read too much into it. Elspeth is infatuated with the MC and she won't stop until she has what she wants. Being that the MC secrets or his love.
 
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Bombmaster

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Don't read too much into it. Elspeth is infatuated with the MC and she won't stop until she has what she wants. Being that the MC secrets or his love.
I love how you guys theorycraft but maybe she just had infatuation at first sight and having this need for control already know about valentine enough to find him worthy, or the more she gets to knows him.

is turning almost into an obsession...
 
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RoryTate

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Don't read too much into it. Elspeth is infatuated with the MC and she won't stop until she has what she wants. Being that the MC secrets or his love.
I don't see how she can have fundamentally different opinions about privacy as compared to both McNab and the MC, but somehow ignore that disagreement for one and not the other. There has to be something distinct about the MC that creates her desire for him in the first place, or you're falling into a chicken and egg paradox here.

At a base level though I don't agree that we know enough to say that Els is infatuated and is just acting "to get what she wants". I know the intelligence gathering has been presented to the reader as potentially being done for selfish reasons, via the contextless glimpses into it that we are given. And those motivations could indeed be part of the reason for her actions. However, her efforts could turn out to be important in keeping the MC and those around him safe from harm. We don't know what went down when Zaina died, whether Davis is still alive or not, or anything about the ex-prison fighter who the "I Hate This Fucking Guy" promoter has gunning for the MC, and so many other potential dangers that are lurking in the background. Those could just as easily be the reason for Els's digging.

What I do see though is what Els is not doing in the story, and those choices do lead me to seriously question the assumption that she is a threat. A truly obsessed woman would be sabotaging and destroying the other love interests whom she saw as an obstacle to her winning the MC. Even if she thought herself so much more attractive and untouchable compared to them (as others have suggested is the reason she is not destroying the others' chances), that level of ego and narcissism would still not stand for the MC giving any attention and interest to other women. So when I see Els treating Vi, Amrit, Serena, and Kana with respect and support, I respond positively and think she's generally a good person. Not perfect, mind you, but so far she appears to be a decent human being at least, and I'll wait to see what explanation is given for the secrecy behind her other actions before concluding anything further.
 
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I don't think it's "fundamentally different" if they both like guys
Yeah, it doesn't really make sense to word it like that.

The most straightforward interpretation here would be that she and the MC both have a love of violence, while McNab seemingly doesn't. We don't know too much about Alistair as readers yet in this regard, but describing him as having a more "calm demeanor" fits with the way he treats people like the shady "I Hate This Fucking Guy" promoter without being openly hostile toward him, unlike the MC who is ready to punch his lights out. I think this is the most likely interpretation because whatever trait Els is thinking about in this moment would be something that's a deciding factor between the MC and others as to her friendship.
That was my kinda my idea as well. Though, as you say, we don't know much about McNab in that regard, about his time in the military etc.

Idk, it just felt significant to me, almost deal-breaking.
 

RoryTate

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That was my kinda my idea as well. Though, as you say, we don't know much about McNab in that regard, about his time in the military etc.
Well, we know that he was the one who stopped the MC from killing Davis over Zaina's death, so I guess there are a few indications that McNab doesn't have a violent nature, or at least that he isn't as hotheaded as the MC and Els sometimes are.
 

Ragnar

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At a base level though I don't agree that we know enough to say that Els is infatuated and is just acting "to get what she wants". I know the intelligence gathering has been presented to the reader as potentially being done for selfish reasons, via the contextless glimpses into it that we are given. And those motivations could indeed be part of the reason for her actions. However, her efforts could turn out to be important in keeping the MC and those around him safe from harm. We don't know what went down when Zaina died, whether Davis is still alive or not, or anything about the ex-prison fighter who the "I Hate This Fucking Guy" promoter has gunning for the MC, and so many other potential dangers that are lurking in the background. Those could just as easily be the reason for Els's digging.
I don't think she has selfish motivations to dig on MC's past. I think she's trying to help him even if the MC doesn't want any help. Is that the right thing to do? No, but I hope we get some answers about why she acts like that in future updates.
Both Elspeth and MC have that in common, they try help other people.
 
Dec 29, 2018
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A truly obsessed woman would be sabotaging and destroying the other love interests whom she saw as an obstacle to her winning the MC.
Isn't that what she's been doing with Katie?

Elspeth has been trying to keep her from getting together with the MC by telling both of them that it would be unprofessional for them to mix business and pleasure. Of course, her rules don't apply to herself, as Elspeth has been shamelessly throwing herself at the main character for the entire game now.
 

MF_DOOM

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Check In 10/18/2023

Just a little custom I did this month Vampire hunters Elspeth and Lyndie!
Added 12,000ish words of script. Puts me at around 47,000. Looks like I'll be finishing up the first draft of script sometime next week. Then I'll have to run through and do some trimming and editing, the usual stuff.
Got a decent jump on posing and rendering. Have the first 180 or so renders finished up and ready to rumble. There's some scenes this update that I'm really looking forward to doing. They'll be stretching some creative muscles I haven't had a chance to stretch yet. I'm really excited to see how they turn out.
That's it for today, just another week of the usual dev work. Thanks to everybody who showed up at the art stream on Sunday, hope you enjoyed.
Thanks as always for the support and I hope you have a lovely upcoming weekend.
Sláinte!
 

RoryTate

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Isn't that what she's been doing with Katie?

Elspeth has been trying to keep her from getting together with the MC by telling both of them that it would be unprofessional for them to mix business and pleasure. Of course, her rules don't apply to herself, as Elspeth has been shamelessly throwing herself at the main character for the entire game now.
mc "Spending time with me means there's a chance people will catch you in photos."
mc "And given my rather 'colorful' reputation, a photo of me going to your place alone might invite speculation."
Kafton "I hadn't even thought of that."
Kafton "I'll find another place. Thanks for thinking of that."

Katie does make mention of Els cock-blocking her if she fails to seduce the MC, but it's interesting to note that there is no conversation in-game (that I can find at least, please correct me if I'm wrong here) between Els and the MC about keeping away from Katie. Whether Els has indeed talked to Katie is not confirmed, and it could just be that Katie has noticed how Els is attracted to the MC and so she is using the "stay professional" dictum as an excuse.

Anyway, if we do accept that this "stay away from the staff and clients" rule has been established by Els via Katie's words, then I think the main motivation here is obvious: Els is simply trying to protect the Centre. Valentine's reputation and bad press could destroy what they've built. Recall what Els says to Kana: "Can I just tell you how lovely it is to have a woman come in here, who isn't furious that he hasn't called her back after a night of passion.". Els knows that sleazy drama about Valentine's sexual exploits sells newspapers. Just one photo and sensational article about how Valentine is taking advantage of emotionally vulnerable female veterans, suggesting that the people running the Centre have been turning a blind eye to his womanizing and predatory behaviour, and whether that's true or not the Centre is likely going to have to cut ties with him to try and salvage future donations (the variable katiesflat is set to True or False when the above conversation with Katie happens about the potential for a sordid photo being taken of them together, so this decision to be seen with Katie may come back to haunt the MC).

Els isn't an emotionally vulnerable veteran coming to the Centre for support, and she knows how to keep secrets, so she is different. I think these "professional rules" (if they exist) are reasonably consistent in her mind, and to be honest, I can't argue with her conclusion if that is the case.

Also, Katie clearly isn't a serious rival to Els for the MC's attention. Katie herself says she's just a side piece, and she doesn't want anything more than sex ("We are not a couple. We aren't trying to become a couple. If we start dating somebody else, this is over."). Els barely notices Katie in any of their interactions. I mean, compare her complete professionalism around Katie to how Els views Kana and Vi, who both get various levels of appreciation from Els (with Kana, it even approaches heights that can only be termed eye "grape" when Els has a high love score, and Els pantomimes boob-squeezing Kana when she has a high friendship score). None of that happens with Katie. She's just played off as some dumb and risky indiscretion if the MC "banged the baker".
 
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Katie does make mention of Els cock-blocking her if she fails to seduce the MC, but it's interesting to note that there is no conversation in-game (that I can find at least, please correct me if I'm wrong here) between Els and the MC about keeping away from Katie.
Of course she wouldn't flat out say it. That would require her to be upfront, honest, and sincere. That's just not her style. Elspeth would much rather use excuses, half-truths, or flat out lies.

The fact that Katie will say "Elspeth might be furious about this" when you choose to kiss her means that Elspeth has done something to let Katie know that she doesn't approve of them getting together. What excatly that was isn't all that important. It's her motivations that matter.

Sure, you can try to give her every benefit of the doubt possible and pretend that Elspeth just had the best interests of the organization at heart. But if that were the case, she wouldn't risk putting herself in the tabloids either. And yet, she's getting into drunken brawls on a public beach. That wouldn't be a good look for them either would it? And she knows it too, because she's the one that calls your lawyer to do damage control.

She's also ditching her volunteer work to go swimming around in a translucent bikini in yet another shameless attempt to catch his eye. The idea that she knows how to keep a secret is laughable when damn near every girl keeps asking you if you are just friends with her. Everyone knows she's got the hots for him. She's embarassingly transparent when it comes to her and him. There's no way she'd ever be able to keep that realtionship a secret.

Recall what Els says to Kana: "Can I just tell you how lovely it is to have a woman come in here, who isn't furious that he hasn't called her back after a night of passion."
Hold up a minute.... don't you think that could also be used as an example of Elspeth trying to keep a potential rival from going after the main character? She's literally trash talking him to her about how much of a heartbreaking womanizer he is.

Listen, I've got no problem admitting that I'm quick to see the worst in Elspeth. I'm completely sick of her. We've had over two dozen choices in this game about Elspeth, and I've done my absolute best to choose every single one that would keep her away from me. But the game doesn't care. It's pushing her as hard as that awful secretary from the previous game, and I'm just as irritated about it now as I was back then. But even if I'm judging her harshly, there is still no way that all of these questionable scenarios are going to fall in her favour.

Elspeth and the MC aren't that close. He was surprised to see Elspeth had a photo of him, because he thought they were both friends of Alistair more so than friends of each other. And yet, Elspeth is obsessed with him. She's doing all sorts of creepy shit like secretly recording his private conversations, and turning normal conversations into fishing expeditions. So why should we give her the benefit of the doubt all the time? He's known Elspeth for less than a year, and yet she thinks that she knows him better than Viridiana.

Viri: You're doubting me? I've known him the longest.
Els: With a nine year gap in the middle. People change a lot Gingersnap.

Here's one of those questionable scenarios. You have to ask yourself if this is simply an innocent question from Elspeth, or if she's trying to sow doubt in Viridiana's mind that maybe the MC is no longer the person she once loved. The latter seems kind of far-fetched at first doesn't it? But from this conversation we see Elspeth learn about the MC's love of fighting and how it got him closer with Viri's brother, and then a very short while later we see Elspeth eagerly get into a fight alongside the MC and will then blatantly try to seduce him that night.

I don't trust Elspeth any further than I could throw her. I'd also like to point out that the main character himself doesn't trust Elspeth either, as seen in one of his internal monologues with his memory of a lost love.

Zania: She hides it well. Better than you, even. But that is an incredibly dangerous woman.
MC: She's a pacifist, hardly even raises her voice with people.
Zania: Is she? Well, maybe she is exactly what she claims. But if something about her wasn't bothering you, would we even be having this conversation?

Deep down he knows that she's a fraud.
 

Quetzzz

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Zania: She hides it well. Better than you, even. But that is an incredibly dangerous woman.
MC: She's a pacifist, hardly even raises her voice with people.
Zania: Is she? Well, maybe she is exactly what she claims. But if something about her wasn't bothering you, would we even be having this conversation?
Even remembering this scene raises the hairs on my neck.
Edit: Even more if you pick a horror movie, and Els is looking giddy.
 

RoryTate

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The fact that Katie will say "Elspeth might be furious about this" when you choose to kiss her means that Elspeth has done something to let Katie know that she doesn't approve of them getting together.
Not necessarily. Katie could just think that Els will be mad at her because Katie knows that Els is in love with the MC. Consider the following:

Kafton "Uncool of Elspeth to cock-block me like this."
mc "What does she have to do with this?"
mc "Besides the whole mixing pleasure with business thing."
mc "Which really should just be expected from me."
Kafton "Are you serious?"
Kafton "You can't possibly ... ?"
Kafton "You're right. You are dense."
mc "Now I'm curious."
Kafton "Ask her. I don't get in the middle of other people's business."

In this conversation and others, they both independently reference the need to act professional when deciding to get it on or not, but they never give any indication as to where that instruction came from (it could have been from Els, but it could have been from Serena, or some other person in HR...we simply don't know the source of this mandate, only that Els will be one of the people disappointed in their unprofessional behaviour). Otherwise, Katie only seems to see Els's love for the MC as influencing his decision, but when he is too dense to realize that she likes him, and that other people know about this attraction, that shocks her and she doesn't understand why he refuses any more.

You know, the more I think about it, the more this Katie stuff seems so nebulous that it's almost meaningless. She's a side piece, and is likely just placed in the story for pacing, considering how long some of the main relationships take to develop. So it's not really worth delving into in detail.

Sure, you can try to give her every benefit of the doubt possible and pretend that Elspeth just had the best interests of the organization at heart. But if that were the case, she wouldn't risk putting herself in the tabloids either. And yet, she's getting into drunken brawls on a public beach. That wouldn't be a good look for them either would it? And she knows it too, because she's the one that calls your lawyer to do damage control.
That's a fair point. Els getting into a fight with drunks outside of a bar does risk the reputation of the Centre. Though I would argue it is not anywhere near as sensational and damaging as a sex scandal involving the MC. Getting drunk and throwing a few punches is just a night ending in "Y" for many celebrities, and no one thinks much of that kind of rowdy behaviour. It certainly wouldn't have a major effect on donations to a veteran's charity in my mind. Still, it does show that Els is more than a little willful and spoiled, in how she uses her power and influence at times to do what she wants and to get away with it. The way she talked with Serena suggests to me that she knew that it would get handled without any problems for the Centre. And I don't doubt if Serena couldn't handle it that Els had other ways to influence matters to her liking.

Hold up a minute.... don't you think that could also be used as an example of Elspeth trying to keep a potential rival from going after the main character? She's literally trash talking him to her about how much of a heartbreaking womanizer he is.
This might be her trying to push Kana away, but the truth is that's not the way most women work when it comes to deciding whether they find men attractive or not. Women tend to like men more when they think other women find that man attractive. This is one of the reasons a wedding ring is sometimes called a "chick magnet". Or why having "wing girls" can be a successful dating strategy. To truly push Kana away, Els should instead say something like: "That's unusual. Women don't really come by to see [mc] much anymore.". Social proofing is a very powerful influence on human behaviours, and making the MC seem unwanted and undesirable would be the best strategy to lessen Kana's interest if Els was truly trying to cock-block other women.

Now this information could make Kana less trustworthy of any commitments to her that the MC makes, so while the comment likely makes Kana more interested in having sex with him, I think it does reasonably set up some obstacles to Kana and the MC forming a long-term bond. But we must then ask if Els is telling the truth here or not. From what I can tell from the story and MC's reaction to her words, there have been women he hasn't called back after a night of passionate sex, and who have stalked him back to his volunteer activities to try and get a second date with him. So if that's the truth – and it seems likely it is – then Kana should reasonably be aware of his reputation, at least if the MC doesn't want to lie to her about himself.

Viri: You're doubting me? I've known him the longest.
Els: With a nine year gap in the middle. People change a lot Gingersnap.

Here's one of those questionable scenarios. You have to ask yourself if this is simply an innocent question from Elspeth, or if she's trying to sow doubt in Viridiana's mind that maybe the MC is no longer the person she once loved.
I interpret this as Els giving Vi some very helpful and useful advice on how to understand and properly pursue the MC. The unfortunate fact is that Vi still sees the MC as a knight in shining armour. She looks at him with the eyes of a lovesick schoolgirl who still hasn't lost her virginity. I doubt she even has the ability to understand how much she doesn't know about the complex and flawed (broken?) man he's become. Or honestly, that he's always been, because no man can ever live up to that kind of childish delusion. The MC is Vi's first crush, and so he's perfect in her eyes. IMO, Els is absolutely right to warn Vi about not knowing him. Simply put, Vi has a lot of growing up to do, or else if the MC chooses her, they are going to have a very rough time of it when he very quickly needs her support, and she can't handle the revelation that there are gaping holes in that perfect armour she imagines him wearing.

Els really is the group's big sister in many ways.
 
4.70 star(s) 134 Votes