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VN Ren'Py STWA: Unbroken [Pt. 7] [STWAdev]

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Rehwyn

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I remember that scene, it was pretty great. I'm doubtful about Els being in a throuple personally, she seems very out to "win" doesn't seem like the sharing type should things get serious. I may be confusing this game with another one but I'm pretty sure Vi said something to Ines at one point about not being willing to share, but it could have been a joke. Who knows though as long as Amrit and Ines are possible I'll be happy.
Yeah, I wouldn't put money on Vi+Elspeth for the reasons you mentioned. However, in update 7 Els has the possibility to get some of the first "interested in girls" points available to her, and both are related to Vi, one when looking at the photo of Els and Vi in Mallorca where Els says Vi totally stole the show and the other if you just had sex the first time with Vi the other day and tell Els about it. Els says she's surprised by and admires her initiative.

So there's definitely at least the hints of some competitive admiration there, and if you played The Author you might be aware that the throuple path in that one started as a competition between the two girls, so it's a path the dev has shown a willingness to explore.
 

ModiThorrson

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Jan 1, 2024
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Yeah, I wouldn't put money on Vi+Elspeth for the reasons you mentioned. However, in update 7 Els has the possibility to get some of the first "interested in girls" points available to her, and both are related to Vi, one when looking at the photo of Els and Vi in Mallorca where Els says Vi totally stole the show and the other if you just had sex the first time with Vi the other day and tell Els about it. Els says she's surprised by and admires her initiative.

So there's definitely at least the hints of some competitive admiration there, and if you played The Author you might be aware that the throuple path in that one started as a competition between the two girls, so it's a path the dev has shown a willingness to explore.
The author was great, my initial playthrough I pursued the little goth sister, but did some other endings as well.
 

RoryTate

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May 15, 2018
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On a related note, anyone else feel that even though Ines is obviously inexperienced in relationships and expressing herself that way, in many other ways she's one of the most emotionally mature members of the group, despite being the youngest? Honestly not that surprising considering the trauma the others have had.
I would say that Kana feels the most emotionally mature to me. She's got her own place and is living fully independent, and while Trinity's betrayal broke her at the time, she has moved on from it significantly and is pushing forward to fixing her life (the MC supports her at times, but he is more along for the enjoyable ride at her side). The other LIs seem either a lot more angsty or a lot more dependent on the MC. Vi and the MC have broken through the "femme fatale" mask that Ines wore, but if you look closely it's still there in a lot of her behaviour. She's still a mystery regarding her private feelings. Notice how she didn't say: "I want to try this out" when getting intimate with MC, but instead says: "I saw this in a hentai". When it comes to sex, she's still in the "fake it 'til you make it" stage, and we don't know much about the "real" Ines stirring underneath that exterior.
 

ModiThorrson

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I would say that Kana feels the most emotionally mature to me. She's got her own place and is living fully independent, and while Trinity's betrayal broke her at the time, she has moved on from it significantly and is pushing forward to fixing her life (the MC supports her at times, but he is more along for the enjoyable ride at her side). The other LIs seem either a lot more angsty or a lot more dependent on the MC. Vi and the MC have broken through the "femme fatale" mask that Ines wore, but if you look closely it's still there in a lot of her behaviour. She's still a mystery regarding her private feelings. Notice how she didn't say: "I want to try this out" when getting intimate with MC, but instead says: "I saw this in a hentai". When it comes to sex, she's still in the "fake it 'til you make it" stage, and we don't know much about the "real" Ines stirring underneath that exterior.
I've gotta disagree, this may have porn content, but that doesn't mean that an LIs true character is defined by her kink(if there is one). She's shown her caring side, and yes a fair bit of insecurity, but it's endearing more than anything.

edit: I should have been more specific in that I disagree about Ines, you have some fair points about Kana though.
 
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Rehwyn

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I would say that Kana feels the most emotionally mature to me. She's got her own place and is living fully independent, and while Trinity's betrayal broke her at the time, she has moved on from it significantly and is pushing forward to fixing her life (the MC supports her at times, but he is more along for the enjoyable ride at her side). The other LIs seem either a lot more angsty or a lot more dependent on the MC. Vi and the MC have broken through the "femme fatale" mask that Ines wore, but if you look closely it's still there in a lot of her behaviour. She's still a mystery regarding her private feelings. Notice how she didn't say: "I want to try this out" when getting intimate with MC, but instead says: "I saw this in a hentai". When it comes to sex, she's still in the "fake it 'til you make it" stage, and we don't know much about the "real" Ines stirring underneath that exterior.
I at least partially agree about Kana, but at the same time I don't think she's moved on from Trin's betrayal (or whatever occurred) as much as you think. I'm 99% sure there's something deeper that happened there and Kana has let her anger and avoidance prevent her from hearing what Trin has to say about it. It feels like eventually to get closure she's going to need to have a heart-to-heart with Trin and she's not there yet.
 

Skeltom

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I at least partially agree about Kana, but at the same time I don't think she's moved on from Trin's betrayal (or whatever occurred) as much as you think. I'm 99% sure there's something deeper that happened there and Kana has let her anger and avoidance prevent her from hearing what Trin has to say about it. It feels like eventually to get closure she's going to need to have a heart-to-heart with Trin and she's not there yet.
I think it's pretty clear what else there is. It goes beyond just a betrayal. All the signs are there than Trin severely injured Kana's neck or spine forcing her to leave the sport. That's not just some squabble between friends.
 
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Rehwyn

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I think it's pretty clear what else there is. It goes beyond just a betrayal. All the signs are there than Trin severely injured Kana's neck or spine forcing her to leave the sport. That's not just some squabble between friends.
Yes, but why? We have no idea if Trin acted on her own initiative or if she was directed to do so for wrestling drama and Kana's injury was just an accident. There's still a lot of unknowns and Kana clearly has not released her anger about it. Releasing that anger and allowing forgiveness is usually a very important step in getting over traumatic experiences, even if it's not followed by reconciliation. This is particularly true given Kana's Christian religious beliefs.
 
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Skeltom

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An accident or not it was still a detriment to her career and life. Not many people would "allow forgiveness" for something so upheaving. It was all Kana had from her early teens, it was her whole life.
 
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ModiThorrson

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An accident or not it was still a detriment to her career and life. Not many people would "allow forgiveness" for something so upheaving. It was all Kana had from her early teens, it was her whole life.
Kana was retiring anyway I believe, I think the hurt is that she wanted to go out on top on her own terms, and her "friend" took that from her by surprising her off script. To set herself up as a bigger player in the league.
 
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Rehwyn

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An accident or not it was still a detriment to her career and life. Not many people would "allow forgiveness" for something so upheaving. It was all Kana had from her early teens, it was her whole life.
I'm aware. I'm using "forgiveness" in the strict definition of releasing feelings of anger and not to mean that you've reconciled with the other person and want to do things with them. While not required for trauma therapy and recovery, allowing forgiveness can be very therapeutic in that it frees some people from recurring negative thoughts. While she's making a lot of progress, Kana still clearly has further to go.

Particularly considering her Christian beliefs, I think her plot is strongly set up to eventually reach forgiveness, though probably with two or more forms of resolution. One might be where she eventually forgives, but doesn't reconcile with Trin. She'd have reached closure but not want Trin in her life. The other might be forgiveness and reconciliation, perhaps at MC's urgings. In that end, I can see her eventually repairing the broken friendship as well.
 
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Skeltom

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I'm aware. I'm using "forgiveness" in the strict definition of releasing feelings of anger and not to mean that you've reconciled with the other person and want to do things with them. While not required for trauma therapy and recovery, allowing forgiveness can be very therapeutic in that it frees some people from recurring negative thoughts. While she's making a lot of progress, Kana still clearly has further to go.

Particularly considering her Christian beliefs, I think her plot is strongly set up to eventually reach forgiveness, though probably with two or more forms of resolution. One might be where she eventually forgives, but doesn't reconcile with Trin. She'd have reached closure but not want her in her life. The other might be forgiveness and reconciliation, perhaps at MC's urgings. In that end, I can see her eventually repairing the damaged friendship as well.
You seem to be a very optimistic person :). There is nothing stopping her from just telling Trin to jog on and never interfere in her life again. Not every story has a happy ending.
 
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Rehwyn

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You seem to be a very optimistic person :). There is nothing stopping her from just telling Trin to jog on and never interfere in her life again. Not every story has a happy ending.
Honestly, that could be a "forgiveness" ending as well. With the strict definition I'm using, it's an entirely internal process wholly related to Kana's emotions. Talking with Trin is just one potential path to getting there.

Regardless, the main point I'm trying to make is that Kana clearly has unresolved internal turmoil about the whole ordeal and until recently avoidance has been her main coping mechanism. I think reaching closure is going to require her to stop avoiding the matter and instead somehow process it. Better understanding why Trin betrayed her and get emotions about it is one possible route to that.

Edit: As for being optimistic, yes that's true. :) But the rest of what I'm saying is speaking from the perspective of common therapeutic models of trauma recovery, which is pretty much the main theme of this game. We probably won't get perfect happy endings, but I'd be very surprised if all the main characters hadn't at least made significant progress towards recovery.
 
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RoryTate

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I've gotta disagree, this may have porn content, but that doesn't mean that an LIs true character is defined by her kink(if there is one). She's shown her caring side, and yes a fair bit of insecurity, but it's endearing more than anything.

edit: I should have been more specific in that I disagree about Ines, you have some fair points about Kana though.
My point is not specific to Ines' "kinks", but more about how she tends to externalize the emotions she is feeling in various ways. Desire is just the best example of this behaviour because it is so private and because this is an adult game, so that's where I notice it the most and why it perhaps seems like I'm focusing on just her "kinks".

Consider for a moment how Ines reacted to seeing the MC and Vi together. At some point she will open up to the MC and/or Vi about this reaction, but I don't expect her to say something like: "I got really excited seeing you two together.". Instead, I think she will say something like: "The image of you two together made me feel strangely excited.". These may seem like similar statements to many, but if you look closely Ines tends to describe things and choose her words in a manner where the world is making her feel and do things, rather than seeing herself as having agency and acting upon the world around her. That's what I mean by her still seeming emotionally immature to me.

I at least partially agree about Kana, but at the same time I don't think she's moved on from Trin's betrayal (or whatever occurred) as much as you think.
Yes, Kana is not fully healed (physically or mentally) from what happened, but notice that I chose my words carefully in describing her current state: "...she has moved on from it significantly...". I never said she had gotten over it completely. It's perfectly understandable that she still has strong emotions to work through regarding Trinity, since it was more than just a betrayal by a coworker. Trinity was her mentor, lover (very likely), and the only reason Kana was able to adapt and survive when moving to Japan. In Kana's own words, she was her everything. The best version of the "forgiveness" ending you are talking about may be found in Kana understanding those events with more context, and accepting that her injury was a mistake (if it indeed was), but saying that their two lives and paths are now separate. And that's not in a "she lost her friend and mentor" kind of way, but more in a "she has given her back to others" decision, because the truth is that we never own other people in that manner, and given enough time, everyone drifts apart eventually.

There's still a lot of unknowns and Kana clearly has not released her anger about it.
I know you're likely using "released her anger" here as a shorthand for "understanding her emotions and learning to control, manage, and accept them". Still, I always want to point out when I hear this kind of description that human beings don't have an x amount of anger, a y amount of love, etc, that builds up inside of us and will cause us to explode if we don't get rid of it (kind of like a modern "four humours theory of medicine" where you have to apply the leeches to drain the yellow bile and achieve balance). Emotions are a bit more...nuanced in their actual physical function within our bodies. But I understand it's just a shorthand so I should probably just learn to ignore it and not be so nitpicky whenever I come across this terminology.
 
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Rehwyn

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I know you're likely using "released her anger" here as a shorthand for "understanding her emotions and learning to control, manage, and accept them". Still, I always want to point out when I hear this kind of description that human beings don't have an x amount of anger, a y amount of love, etc, that builds up inside of us and will cause us to explode if we don't get rid of it (kind of like a modern "four humours theory of medicine" where you have to apply the leeches to drain the yellow bile and achieve balance). Emotions are a bit more...nuanced in their actual physical function within our bodies. But I understand it's just a shorthand so I should probably just learn to ignore it and not be so nitpicky whenever I come across this terminology.
An excellent point, and I was definitely using it as shorthand. It is good to add your clarification, so thanks. :)
 

maroek

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Speaking of popular LIs... I'm not the only one who thinks Elspeth is just redhead and frackled Ines, with long hair right? Their body types are different, but facial features are almost exactly the same, and drop dead gorgeous. I know I confused them for a moment once or twice, when they are wet.

Wet Ines.jpg

Wet Young Elspeth.jpg
 

Rehwyn

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Speaking of popular LIs... I'm not the only one who thinks Elspeth is just redhead and frackled Ines, with long hair right? Their body types are different, but facial features are almost exactly the same, and drop dead gorgeous. I know I confused them for a moment once or twice, when they are wet.

View attachment 3815477

View attachment 3815480
Hah, yeah. I also had a moment of "what the heck is Ines doing- oh, she has freckles, pale skin, and different eyes."
 
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HonoredEx

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Speaking of popular LIs... I'm not the only one who thinks Elspeth is just redhead and frackled Ines, with long hair right? Their body types are different, but facial features are almost exactly the same, and drop dead gorgeous. I know I confused them for a moment once or twice, when they are wet.


View attachment 3815480
This picture made me think that Els's work wasnt just regular stuff but more like 'assassin work' for the gov

And yeah I see what you mean by Ines/Els being similar, thankgod she has redder/longer hair now (and I told her to keep longer hair too) We already have enough short hairs.
 

Skeltom

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This picture made me think that Els's work wasnt just regular stuff but more like 'assassin work' for the gov

And yeah I see what you mean by Ines/Els being similar, thankgod she has redder/longer hair now (and I told her to keep longer hair too) We already have enough short hairs.
I don't mind the short hair but it is a little off-putting that they are all the same style. A semi-short to the right combover. The conversation with Vi and Ines didn't really make much sense either. They make it seem like Vi's hair is somehow 8 inches longer than Ines' when they are practically identical. Maybe if Ines had hair like Katie but she doesn't.
 
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